Does heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PvP?

relog · May 12

With such amount of a dk's in current meta or just chars with ardent flame skill line which dominate in PvP, i don't understand why heart of flame even get buffed from restoring from missing health to from max health.
This skills allow you to play with zero sources of mag/stam regen, not even a single piece of set/trait for regen is needed. You can swap regen food (like orzorga) to stat food (like skulls) and that also boost you regen. You also do not need a stam/mag regen Mundus. I don't even remind that it also somehow have a big aoe damage tick.
I think % values for this skill is over performing and should be reduced.

acanca · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

People not speaking up against core of flame being too strong is the reason i made a pts account in the first place.

It was blatantly overpowered in pts so i was sure people would speak up against it and it wouldnt go live as is in the first place. Yet here we are where not only is it breaking the game on live but its also recieving a massive buff to its healing.

The problem isnt really the damage or the heal though they are also amazing. The problem is the insane amount of resources you can constantly restore with it, and it should be halved with battle spirit active.

The Uninvited · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are in normal state for PVP

At this moment maybe it is, but can we wait until the other classes are reworked? They might get the same ammount of sustain?

Dracane · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

Though it seems plain and obvious now; it has not thus far occured to me that of course the ressource restore will scale the more ressource you have. Such as with tri stat food. I understand why ever guild includes this mandatorily.

acanca · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

Dracane wrote: »

Though it seems plain and obvious now; it has not thus far occured to me that of course the ressource restore will scale the more ressource you have. Such as with tri stat food. I understand why ever guild includes this mandatorily.

You can also keep up a 10 stack streak indefinitely with hearth of flame on magsorc btw, i know you like magsorc builds, so thought i should at least mention it : ) Thats like 16k magicka restored every 4 seconds lol

Militan1404 · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

The Uninvited wrote: »

At this moment maybe it is, but can we wait until the other classes are reworked? They might get the same ammount of sustain?

So then its all good then? Just give all classes infinite sustain thats the solution? Why even have resource management at all then?

Firstmep · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

The Uninvited wrote: »

At this moment maybe it is, but can we wait until the other classes are reworked? They might get the same ammount of sustain?

Even if every class got their rework tomorrow, which they wont, this kind of infinite sustain is just too much. Some will say it's okay since you have to use every few seconds, but the amount restored enables some very unhealthy gameplay, even on non dks that subclass this.

On my plar I can run regen food with vitality and tripots or slot this one skill, run armor pots and stat food and get more sustain that works thru block.

Not sure what zos could do, as I guess it's getting buffed for pve tanks, maybe cut the heal and resource restore in half for pvp, zos seems to like to give out that penalty for other classes, time for dks to get a taste.

xylena · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are in normal state for PVP

I hated it at first, but it would seem "infinite sustain" is the new normal for their design going forward. This isn't actually a problem if pressure builds are strong enough to overpower healing and deny opponents from resetting fights, which they look to be on PTS.

You want to avoid a scenario where sweaty players can access easy sustain but casuals are left struggling with their resource bars. While this may look balanced on the surface, it's really just widening the floor-ceiling gap, while also dumbing down higher level play.

If some players think they have good sustain, but other players are crying that they can't reset fights, that to me is relatively balanced. The 1st Vengeance test showed a meta with too little sustain. Fights devolve into turn-based heavy attacking. Very boring.

ceruulean · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

Well again, ESO combat does not allow for proper punishing of offensive skills unless they add a cast time to every spammable and make them as punishable as jabs/snipe. So the main way to punish players was to outplay, drain, and ruin their stam bar. Except now that inhale gives so many resources, you can't do that. So there's only 1 method left and it's to slot unblockable stun, corrosive or 2H ult and mechanical acuity to burst down a permanentblock DPS, or a decent unblockable DOT pressure build like the Masters DW with signet.

The Uninvited · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are in normal state for PVP

Militan1404 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

At this moment maybe it is, but can we wait until the other classes are reworked? They might get the same ammount of sustain?

So then its all good then? Just give all classes infinite sustain thats the solution? Why even have resource management at all then?

I don't know if you were around when VVardenfell launched, but before that this kind of sustain was kinda normal. And no one that I know in game liked the change to sustain back then.

Dracane · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

The Uninvited wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

At this moment maybe it is, but can we wait until the other classes are reworked? They might get the same ammount of sustain?

So then its all good then? Just give all classes infinite sustain thats the solution? Why even have resource management at all then?

I don't know if you were around when VVardenfell launched, but before that this kind of sustain was kinda normal. And no one that I know in game liked the change to sustain back then.

Indeed. Those times were better. No one likes to be constantly out of ressources, hence why the majority of build at least subclasses Ardent Flame.

The Uninvited · May 12

Heart of flame / soul of flame are in normal state for PVP

Firstmep wrote: »

The Uninvited wrote: »

At this moment maybe it is, but can we wait until the other classes are reworked? They might get the same ammount of sustain?

Even if every class got their rework tomorrow, which they wont, this kind of infinite sustain is just too much. Some will say it's okay since you have to use every few seconds, but the amount restored enables some very unhealthy gameplay, even on non dks that subclass this.

On my plar I can run regen food with vitality and tripots or slot this one skill, run armor pots and stat food and get more sustain that works thru block.

Not sure what zos could do, as I guess it's getting buffed for pve tanks, maybe cut the heal and resource restore in half for pvp, zos seems to like to give out that penalty for other classes, time for dks to get a taste.

DK's have been quite the worst in sustain for years. But since you're right about other classes, I think it shouldn't be halved, that would be too much of a nerf. Maybe 75% in PVP and give that to all classes?

Luneca · May 13

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

At the very least, it should only heal or give back resources but not both.

Giving more resources than it costs (and scaling even higher than that depending on the build), healing, and doing damage is where ZOS abandoned their own design philosophy and has introduced massive power creep in PvE and PvP.

And this is all on a skill line that is already "overloaded" for damage.

I honestly do not understand the goal ZOS was going for when they made these changes. I wasn't around for the PTS, but how could anyone not see this would just raise DPS and promote even more unkillable tank-damage builds in PvP?

The skill literally must be slotted because it's far more efficient at converting resources, healing, and doing damage than any other skill in the game. And it's in the same skill line as whip.

Every other skill that allows resource gain is inferior because it either: doesn't do damage, doesn't heal, or has a possible cap on sustain.

On paper it's not balanced, like other DK changes. Yet, despite all of that...I still am not slotting Ardent Flame off a DK in PvP.

Well, maybe that's why every encounter is an uphill battle. Wait, that's right. Who cares? I'm just gonna fire siege.

Edit: Also forgot to mention every other skill that assists sustain is in an unappealing skill line. I honestly do not see them changing that in the "future" reworks. And even if they did, then we'd be stacking three skill lines with damage and sustain which would be another issue and something to complain about. Then players would complain that classes aren't "unique" anymore.

It's so easy to see that it won't be happening.

Wup_sa · May 13

Heart of flame / soul of flame are in normal state for PVP

Atm its the only form of sustain on pure dk. It should not be just nerfed without adding more numbers to combustion. Infact dk would be a lot more healthier if they listened to better feedback about reworks and maybe buffed combustion resource gain to how it was in u35. On subclassed setups it is absolutely too strong though.

acanca · May 13

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

Wup_sa wrote: »

Atm its the only form of sustain on pure dk. It should not be just nerfed without adding more numbers to combustion. Infact dk would be a lot more healthier if they listened to better feedback about reworks and maybe buffed combustion resource gain to how it was in u35. On subclassed setups it is absolutely too strong though.

No its not dk already has good sustain with its passive that gives 225 mag and stam every second when you apply burning (basically every skill of dk either has guaranteed burning or higher burning chance btw) and also restores resources with ult.

This skill is busted, there isnt a single argument any one can make that can justify this level of sustain. There is a reason why literally every single one of us is running around with 0 sustain food, sustain enchant and sustain set and yet all of us have infinite sustain.

Prionyx · May 13

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

There should have been 2 options really

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed
and
I don't play PVP

Freelancer_ESO · May 13

It is too strong in both PvE and PvP.

Avran_Sylt · May 13

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

It should focus on resource sustain or damage, not both at the same time.

VinnyGambini · May 13

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

It allows permablock. So no matter how much dmg I stack, I can't kill my opponent. Sorc conservation of energy is the same. Both needs halved effect in PvP.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 19

Heart of flame / soul of flame are in normal state for PVP

Stop Nerfing our characters! Nerf Subclassing! It is NOT REAL Dragonknights hitting you, it is Subclass!

s3dulo · May 19

Heart of flame / soul of flame are in normal state for PVP

No...no more nerfs. Your class, no matter who you are, is literally getting buffed next patch and then after that, it's just class buffs for every non-DK class. Stop calling for nerfs and just be patient. Your time is coming. In the mean time, sub class ardent flame into your build. These skills are totally accessible to you. This is how PVP works. A meta comes along and you should get a piece of it. The meta will change and you should change to. Just because your build stops work doesn't mean there is a problem that needs to be nerfed. YOU. NEED. TO. ADJUST.

acanca · May 19

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

s3dulo wrote: »

No...no more nerfs. Your class, no matter who you are, is literally getting buffed next patch and then after that, it's just class buffs for every non-DK class. Stop calling for nerfs and just be patient. Your time is coming. In the mean time, sub class ardent flame into your build. These skills are totally accessible to you. This is how PVP works. A meta comes along and you should get a piece of it. The meta will change and you should change to. Just because your build stops work doesn't mean there is a problem that needs to be nerfed. YOU. NEED. TO. ADJUST.

Ardent flame has been on every single pvp build i made since dk rework because core of flame alone makes it more than worth it and they all work great. I'm not asking for a balance change because my builds dont work, i dont think they have been more broken. I'm calling for a balance change because its whats right for the game because at the very least every one being able to block forever is far from healthy for the game and so is infinite sustain.

You need to adjust your view on balance and stop thinking on whether or not something is good for you or your build but whether something is good or not for the game.

Also does every one in this game have a ''class''. Why are you all like this lol

Vaqual · May 19

acanca wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

No...no more nerfs. Your class, no matter who you are, is literally getting buffed next patch and then after that, it's just class buffs for every non-DK class. Stop calling for nerfs and just be patient. Your time is coming. In the mean time, sub class ardent flame into your build. These skills are totally accessible to you. This is how PVP works. A meta comes along and you should get a piece of it. The meta will change and you should change to. Just because your build stops work doesn't mean there is a problem that needs to be nerfed. YOU. NEED. TO. ADJUST.

Ardent flame has been on every single pvp build i made since dk rework because core of flame alone makes it more than worth it and they all work great. I'm not asking for a balance change because my builds dont work, i dont think they have been more broken. I'm calling for a balance change because its whats right for the game because at the very least every one being able to block forever is far from healthy for the game and so is infinite sustain.

You need to adjust your view on balance and stop thinking on whether or not something is good for you or your build but whether something is good or not for the game.

Also does every one in this game have a ''class''. Why are you all like this lol

I like you.

CatalinaWineMixer2 · May 19

Heart of flame / soul of flame are in normal state for PVP

s3dulo wrote: »

No...no more nerfs. Your class, no matter who you are, is literally getting buffed next patch and then after that, it's just class buffs for every non-DK class. Stop calling for nerfs and just be patient. Your time is coming. In the mean time, sub class ardent flame into your build. These skills are totally accessible to you. This is how PVP works. A meta comes along and you should get a piece of it. The meta will change and you should change to. Just because your build stops work doesn't mean there is a problem that needs to be nerfed. YOU. NEED. TO. ADJUST.

From the same person who admits the Subclass DK is better than the pure on his un nerf Pyrebrand thread. And doesn't run a pure DK. I have only just begun to speak out about how broken the Subclass system is. Catering to meta chasers who continually keep this game from balance and intentionally put in even more unbalance is coming to an end. The only thing getting adjusted is the broken state of combat brought to us by the same people. The same people who chased thousands of our friends off for a broken cherry picking system. Your post on that thread is proof that the Class sets need to apply only to the Pure Class characters. A Subclass DK asking for more crit from a set they shouldn't have access to in the first place. Irony isnt the word, fatigue is. Its the same old song we have been hearing for going on 11 years. Over and over. And it needs to stop.

s3dulo · May 19

Heart of flame / soul of flame are in normal state for PVP

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

No...no more nerfs. Your class, no matter who you are, is literally getting buffed next patch and then after that, it's just class buffs for every non-DK class. Stop calling for nerfs and just be patient. Your time is coming. In the mean time, sub class ardent flame into your build. These skills are totally accessible to you. This is how PVP works. A meta comes along and you should get a piece of it. The meta will change and you should change to. Just because your build stops work doesn't mean there is a problem that needs to be nerfed. YOU. NEED. TO. ADJUST.

From the same person who admits the Subclass DK is better than the pure on his un nerf Pyrebrand thread. And doesn't run a pure DK. I have only just begun to speak out about how broken the Subclass system is. Catering to meta chasers who continually keep this game from balance and intentionally put in even more unbalance is coming to an end. The only thing getting adjusted is the broken state of combat brought to us by the same people. The same people who chased thousands of our friends off for a broken cherry picking system. Your post on that thread is proof that the Class sets need to apply only to the Pure Class characters. A Subclass DK asking for more crit from a set they shouldn't have access to in the first place. Irony isnt the word, fatigue is. Its the same old song we have been hearing for going on 11 years. Over and over. And it needs to stop.

I don't use a subclassed DK anymore. I've been using a pure class for weeks. You see. That's the issue with a lot of players complaining about this or that skill and asking for a nerf. You lot never change your build. A build that works will eventually stop working and you all start looking for nerfs instead of changing things up. This game is dynamic and if your build is static, you won't succeed. In fact, after update 50, I won't be able to run my current build as is, I'll have to make some adjustments. BFD though.

And that thread wasn't asking to un nerf Pyrebrand. it was asking for the Pyrebrand dot to crit. Un nerfed pyrebrand would mean adding the 16% damage back that it had originally. I wasn't asking for that. But I've noticed people like to strawman on these forums.

What's hilarious is you guys think nerfing something will make the meta go away. There will literally always be meta no matter what. The best players will figure out the strongest way to play in order to win and that will get used until the next best thing. If you don't use the meta, you'll be at a disadvantage and will lose more than you win. That's just reality and that's how meta works. After update 50, DK won't even been your biggest issue. You'll be asking for nerfs to sorcs next. And just wait until the hordes of unkillable werewolves start shredding you like tissue paper.

s3dulo · May 19

Heart of flame / soul of flame are in normal state for PVP

acanca wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

No...no more nerfs. Your class, no matter who you are, is literally getting buffed next patch and then after that, it's just class buffs for every non-DK class. Stop calling for nerfs and just be patient. Your time is coming. In the mean time, sub class ardent flame into your build. These skills are totally accessible to you. This is how PVP works. A meta comes along and you should get a piece of it. The meta will change and you should change to. Just because your build stops work doesn't mean there is a problem that needs to be nerfed. YOU. NEED. TO. ADJUST.

Ardent flame has been on every single pvp build i made since dk rework because core of flame alone makes it more than worth it and they all work great. I'm not asking for a balance change because my builds dont work, i dont think they have been more broken. I'm calling for a balance change because its whats right for the game because at the very least every one being able to block forever is far from healthy for the game and so is infinite sustain.

You need to adjust your view on balance and stop thinking on whether or not something is good for you or your build but whether something is good or not for the game.

Also does every one in this game have a ''class''. Why are you all like this lol

But.....a balance change is literally happening in a few weeks. And then another.....and then another.....and then another etc. It's like you all just forgot ZOS is doing a game wide class refresh and DK is step 1 of 6. No matter what class went first, it was going to be like this. It'll be the same song and dance about nerfing Warden skills next. Then sorc. Heck, I bet calls for nerfs will start as soon as update 50 hits. Werewolves will be so crazy strong.

Ideally, ZOS should have done all the classes at once but this is how they chose to do it. I don't like homogeny in builds but at least we are on a path for exciting changes that will drastically shake things up. And a few months of DK meta is better than another year of two of the essence thief wearing, spec bow slinging, beetle blasting clones that were running around. There's a lot of DKs and subclassed DKs but within that I've seen a lot more build variety. Every other day I fight a player doing something unique within the class and I ask for build details, which almost all are happy to share and I admire the creativity.

A lot of players instead zerg down the skilled player, bag them and then hate whisper accusations of cheating. It's a shame because most of these guys are nice and one can learn a lot by just asking.

My point is, Core of Flame might seem too powerful now but that will change quickly as the class refresh rolls out. I'd be shocked if every class doesn't end up with it's own powerful abilities for sustain. If we were at the end of the class refresh and this is how things ended up, I'd probably agree with you regarding Core of Flame but this is just the beginning. Wait and see.

hoangdz · May 19

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

Funny because I made like 3 threads about HoF's sustain during PTS cycle, but oh lord all the DK mains jumped on my arse. IT always happens exactly as predicted.

Luneca · May 20

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

hoangdz wrote: »

Funny because I made like 3 threads about HoF's sustain during PTS cycle, but oh lord all the DK mains jumped on my arse. IT always happens exactly as predicted.

It's exactly what's wrong with the PTS tbh. People aren't honest about what works, what doesn't. Most only want their agenda to be fulfilled.

When I saw the DK changes, I was like how did this get past the forums? -- then I saw every streamer, every 1vXer, every "pro" just running DK (specifically ardent flame) and destroying those that don't know any better even easier than they ever could in previous patches. My friend even claimed that "DK is finally balanced. The game is balanced!" - they only play DK.

And I understood: it's because the majority wants changes that favor their play style/build and to nerf anything unfavorable to it. It's not exactly a crazy position to have, but the same people then try to claim the game is balanced and fair, then bring "skill arguments" or other nonsense when confronted about the buff/nerf they want.

Some of these DK changes, seriously... who thought that whip needed to be AoE, do more damage, be spammable (it wasn't before as power lash), heal more and be connected to even more damage buffs? And that's just the start about the DK rework.

How anyone is even defending this skill is bizarre considering some people are taking the skill line for the single skill. Isn't that exactly what kind of metric that ZOS used to and still should consider when determining if something is OP? Nearly everyone in PvP is running that skill line, and definitely that skill.

The DK changes were simply a massive DPS increase disguised as a QoL update, while other classes got changes that essentially made them even more subpar for the most part in recent patches (esp. necromancer). In the same patch when DKs got a massive damage increase and sustain, how could ZOS be concerned about the DPS or potential of any other class to the point nerfs needed to be handed out? It was and still is nonsensical that they take this kind of approach.

Relative power between classes is probably at it's worst right now. Partly because subclassing means that classes with bad skill lines have no purpose unless you can find specific builds that use them (necromancer, templar, arcanist), but the other part being the rework and the entire idea of it tilting balance away from classes that haven't been addressed.

There is little to no logical consistency with these changes anymore. I cannot understand how they think a bandaid on a massive wound (class masteries) will change much in reality.

Ah well, I realize the game probably won't ever be balanced in a way that favors me. That's why I'll just fire siege.

Firstmep · May 20

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

s3dulo wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

s3dulo wrote: »

No...no more nerfs. Your class, no matter who you are, is literally getting buffed next patch and then after that, it's just class buffs for every non-DK class. Stop calling for nerfs and just be patient. Your time is coming. In the mean time, sub class ardent flame into your build. These skills are totally accessible to you. This is how PVP works. A meta comes along and you should get a piece of it. The meta will change and you should change to. Just because your build stops work doesn't mean there is a problem that needs to be nerfed. YOU. NEED. TO. ADJUST.

Ardent flame has been on every single pvp build i made since dk rework because core of flame alone makes it more than worth it and they all work great. I'm not asking for a balance change because my builds dont work, i dont think they have been more broken. I'm calling for a balance change because its whats right for the game because at the very least every one being able to block forever is far from healthy for the game and so is infinite sustain.

You need to adjust your view on balance and stop thinking on whether or not something is good for you or your build but whether something is good or not for the game.

Also does every one in this game have a ''class''. Why are you all like this lol

But.....a balance change is literally happening in a few weeks. And then another.....and then another.....and then another etc. It's like you all just forgot ZOS is doing a game wide class refresh and DK is step 1 of 6. No matter what class went first, it was going to be like this. It'll be the same song and dance about nerfing Warden skills next. Then sorc. Heck, I bet calls for nerfs will start as soon as update 50 hits. Werewolves will be so crazy strong.

Ideally, ZOS should have done all the classes at once but this is how they chose to do it. I don't like homogeny in builds but at least we are on a path for exciting changes that will drastically shake things up. And a few months of DK meta is better than another year of two of the essence thief wearing, spec bow slinging, beetle blasting clones that were running around. There's a lot of DKs and subclassed DKs but within that I've seen a lot more build variety. Every other day I fight a player doing something unique within the class and I ask for build details, which almost all are happy to share and I admire the creativity.

A lot of players instead zerg down the skilled player, bag them and then hate whisper accusations of cheating. It's a shame because most of these guys are nice and one can learn a lot by just asking.

My point is, Core of Flame might seem too powerful now but that will change quickly as the class refresh rolls out. I'd be shocked if every class doesn't end up with it's own powerful abilities for sustain. If we were at the end of the class refresh and this is how things ended up, I'd probably agree with you regarding Core of Flame but this is just the beginning. Wait and see.

I don't want everyone to walk around with easy infinite sustain. We already had that meta with old heavy armor and Blackrose and it was miserable, everyone holding block forever and still doing massive damage.

This isn't about dks power level after their rework, this skill is simply too strong, period.

Firstmep · May 20

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

Luneca wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

Funny because I made like 3 threads about HoF's sustain during PTS cycle, but oh lord all the DK mains jumped on my arse. IT always happens exactly as predicted.

It's exactly what's wrong with the PTS tbh. People aren't honest about what works, what doesn't. Most only want their agenda to be fulfilled.

When I saw the DK changes, I was like how did this get past the forums? -- then I saw every streamer, every 1vXer, every "pro" just running DK (specifically ardent flame) and destroying those that don't know any better even easier than they ever could in previous patches. My friend even claimed that "DK is finally balanced. The game is balanced!" - they only play DK.

And I understood: it's because the majority wants changes that favor their play style/build and to nerf anything unfavorable to it. It's not exactly a crazy position to have, but the same people then try to claim the game is balanced and fair, then bring "skill arguments" or other nonsense when confronted about the buff/nerf they want.

Some of these DK changes, seriously... who thought that whip needed to be AoE, do more damage, be spammable (it wasn't before as power lash), heal more and be connected to even more damage buffs? And that's just the start about the DK rework.

How anyone is even defending this skill is bizarre considering some people are taking the skill line for the single skill. Isn't that exactly what kind of metric that ZOS used to and still should consider when determining if something is OP? Nearly everyone in PvP is running that skill line, and definitely that skill.

The DK changes were simply a massive DPS increase disguised as a QoL update, while other classes got changes that essentially made them even more subpar for the most part in recent patches (esp. necromancer). In the same patch when DKs got a massive damage increase and sustain, how could ZOS be concerned about the DPS or potential of any other class to the point nerfs needed to be handed out? It was and still is nonsensical that they take this kind of approach.

Relative power between classes is probably at it's worst right now. Partly because subclassing means that classes with bad skill lines have no purpose unless you can find specific builds that use them (necromancer, templar, arcanist), but the other part being the rework and the entire idea of it tilting balance away from classes that haven't been addressed.

There is little to no logical consistency with these changes anymore. I cannot understand how they think a bandaid on a massive wound (class masteries) will change much in reality.

Ah well, I realize the game probably won't ever be balanced in a way that favors me. That's why I'll just fire siege.

Well sorcs are going to be stronger then dks next patch, especially if you build into max mag.
You can have 25k shields in pvp with massive damage, infinite sustain etc. With streak.

I don't think people realise just how insane coe and font of power are on a max mag build.

Luneca · May 20

Heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PVP and should be nerfed

Firstmep wrote: »

Well sorcs are going to be stronger then dks next patch, especially if you build into max mag.
You can have 25k shields in pvp with massive damage, infinite sustain etc. With streak.

I don't think people realise just how insane coe and font of power are on a max mag build.

We don't know that for sure since ZOS hasn't finalized it yet, or have they?

If they really do it, think it's safe to say that they don't care in the slightest about balance. But if they do not, it's strange they feel the need to hold out and favor some classes more than others.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Does heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PvP?

Does heart of flame / soul of flame are too strong in PvP? 66 votes