Is copying over live characters necessary for the test process?

shadoza · May 10

". . . there will also be an additional PC NA character copy that will happen on Saturday, May 9th."
Sure wish I did not have to spend time setting up testing every couple of weeks.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692635/pts-week-5-starts-on-tuesday-may-12#latest

I understand some players want a copy over, but @zos_kevin is it necessary for the test process? It is difficult to test quest lines when one has to start over so many times.

YandereGirlfriend · May 10

So much this.

Ilsabet · May 10

The main reason for new copies is to swap between NA and EU servers, so that each server has the chance to test with their copied characters. This is actually the first time it looks like NA will get the last copy for a PTS cycle, which is very nice for NA players because it means we'll get extended time with their characters on PTS rather than the 8-9 weeks a year they've been stuck with previously.

code65536 · May 11

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

tomofhyrule · May 11

Note that the PTS is not for testing over an extended period. It's running much too quickly for that because the feedback needs to be submitted and sent in time for the patch.

If someone is testing quests, it is kind of expected that they do the questline within that week and give feedback on it immediately. Pretty well every questline can be slammed through within a few days at the exclusion of everything else (which again, is the expected use of PTS). The PTS is not really for extended playthroughs.

However, there is a lot they could do to make the setup of template characters a lot less arduous, like changing the nested box system (which was a relic of before stickerbook was a thing) to just have stickerbook unlocked with templates.

shadoza · May 11

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

Wuuffyy · May 11

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

How does it not improve testing?

Renato90085 · May 11

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

spend 3 hour make build or use 1sec log in your character and builds..

BagOfBadgers · May 11

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

So you can compair your actual toon live to the upcoming content, DPS/skills/styles. Also you could make a cp3600 toon, with BIS gear and test your constant claims that these sets ruin you experiance as they give a massive DPS increase!

shadoza · May 11

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

So you can compair your actual toon live to the upcoming content, DPS/skills/styles. Also you could make a cp3600 toon, with BIS gear and test your constant claims that these sets ruin you experiance as they give a massive DPS increase!

Can't you recreate your character given the free box items?

Also you could make a cp3600 toon, with BIS gear and test your constant claims that these sets ruin you experiance as they give a massive DPS increase!

I do not know why you keep throwing shade at me. Could you not have just offered a reply without the hate?

shadoza · May 11

Wuuffyy wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

How does it not improve testing?

Even though turning the question around does not answer my question, here goes my answer: I started the thief quest but did not get it finished because of a glitch. When they reset the server for EU, that progress was removed. I started the Sheo quest . . . now that progress is going to be removed.

Ilsabet · May 11

shadoza wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

So you can compair your actual toon live to the upcoming content, DPS/skills/styles. Also you could make a cp3600 toon, with BIS gear and test your constant claims that these sets ruin you experiance as they give a massive DPS increase!

Can't you recreate your character given the free box items?

Sometimes there are things that affect testing beyond the character's basic specs and builds.

As a personal anecdote example, last year I wanted to do the Solstice part 2 questline on PTS with my NA main character, but it was bugged for the first two weeks when NA had its copy. So to avoid having to wait until the questline went Live, I made a new template character with the same specs as my main... but then I had to run her through several base game and earlier DLC questlines plus part 1 of Solstice to set up the character's history with a plot-relevant NPC in the part 2 storyline. That was a whole bunch of extra work that I wouldn't have had to do if I'd been able to just use my copied main character.

Obviously the existence of quest-breaking bugs on PTS is its own problem that ZOS really should be better about avoiding, but hopefully this example helps show how it can make a difference to have established characters available for PTS testing.

YandereGirlfriend · May 11

I'm with you, OP!

As a permanent PTS denizen, I find it endlessly annoying that it keeps getting wiped and overwritten every couple of weeks. Having to rebuild a new testing house, etc.. In fact, the only thing that I really appreciate about the character copy is that my housing and testing environments are also ported. But that's it.

When I'm on the PTS, I am most interested in the mechanical interactions of the new content and don't really care about my existing characters.

That could be more of a PvP thing, though. Since the most common PvE testing boils down to: "Slap-on new content and parse", in which case I can see the appeal of the copy.

But that isn't everyone's use-case.

tomofhyrule · May 11

shadoza wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

How does it not improve testing?

Even though turning the question around does not answer my question, here goes my answer: I started the thief quest but did not get it finished because of a glitch. When they reset the server for EU, that progress was removed. I started the Sheo quest . . . now that progress is going to be removed.

So then why did you not finish it?

The TG line having a questbreaking bug is understandable why it couldn't be finished. I had the same one time when I was running Orsinium for screenshots during the U41 PTS, and then I found that they'd accidentally broken the Orsinium MQ by adding invisible walls in preparation for Scribing in U42. I haven't heard any questbreaking bugs for the Sheo line though, so two weeks is plenty of time to finish it.

Remember, the point of the PTS is not to play the quests leisurely. It's not for listening to the dialogue and casually poking at it here and there; it's really designed to be slammed through to look for bugs. If you're intending to play through the questlines leisurely so you don't have to deal with other people on Live messing up your experience though, the PTS cycle is not the time to do that. You'll want to do that in the PTS downtime starting after the PTS cycle has finished. At that point, the PTS does not switch over until the next PTS cycle starts.

Aydh · May 11

extremely useful to test live vs pts with actual chars.

code65536 · May 11

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

Because this case is not about your testing. It's about their (i.e., ZOS's) testing.

Wuuffyy · May 11

Right. I’d unfortunately rather them inconvenience a select few rather than jeopardize/unnecessarily delay the addition of crossplay/save. I didn’t state this as I thought it was obvious but here’s my perspective.

I imagine it’s a monumental task as it has been for seemingly any game that has added crossplay and/or cross save post-launch.

BagOfBadgers · May 11

shadoza wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

So you can compair your actual toon live to the upcoming content, DPS/skills/styles. Also you could make a cp3600 toon, with BIS gear and test your constant claims that these sets ruin you experiance as they give a massive DPS increase!

Can't you recreate your character given the free box items?

Also you could make a cp3600 toon, with BIS gear and test your constant claims that these sets ruin you experiance as they give a massive DPS increase!

I do not know why you keep throwing shade at me. Could you not have just offered a reply without the hate?

I have Toons on PCNA and PCEU so have ready mades for each PTS.

I'm just pointing out things and suggesting that you can see how true all the statments you have made about high geared and CP end players ruinnung your experiance actually are, eg your DPS in said sets and CP.

Also these are words on a screen, so no one can hear my tone, facial expression or body posture.

shadoza · 12:29AM

tomofhyrule wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

How does it not improve testing?

Even though turning the question around does not answer my question, here goes my answer: I started the thief quest but did not get it finished because of a glitch. When they reset the server for EU, that progress was removed. I started the Sheo quest . . . now that progress is going to be removed.

So then why did you not finish it?

The TG line having a questbreaking bug is understandable why it couldn't be finished. I had the same one time when I was running Orsinium for screenshots during the U41 PTS, and then I found that they'd accidentally broken the Orsinium MQ by adding invisible walls in preparation for Scribing in U42. I haven't heard any questbreaking bugs for the Sheo line though, so two weeks is plenty of time to finish it.

Remember, the point of the PTS is not to play the quests leisurely. It's not for listening to the dialogue and casually poking at it here and there; it's really designed to be slammed through to look for bugs. If you're intending to play through the questlines leisurely so you don't have to deal with other people on Live messing up your experience though, the PTS cycle is not the time to do that. You'll want to do that in the PTS downtime starting after the PTS cycle has finished. At that point, the PTS does not switch over until the next PTS cycle starts.

I have real world obligations. Testing this game is not my job; it is a favor to the development team.

How does one find bugs 'slamming through?' When I find a bug or a glitch, I restart the quest with a different character to see if the bug/glitch is repeatable. I pay attention to how the quest flows, the voice over verses the text and cc, and interactions with objects and NPCs.

shadoza · 12:38AM

code65536 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

Because this case is not about your testing. It's about their (i.e., ZOS's) testing.

Here is my vantage. If you must test with your character, then are you not actually testing your character's ability to do the content rather than testing the content itself? If your character cannot smoothly do the content, then you decide the content is bad and if they can do it easily, you decide, the content is easy . . .
By having a new character with all the options, one can test low to high end levels, various gear levels and group to solo relatability without making it a personal campaign.
Suggesting that the server needs characters from the live game doesn't make sense to me. How does it matter?

shadoza · 12:44AM

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

BagOfBadgers wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

So you can compair your actual toon live to the upcoming content, DPS/skills/styles. Also you could make a cp3600 toon, with BIS gear and test your constant claims that these sets ruin you experiance as they give a massive DPS increase!

Can't you recreate your character given the free box items?

Also you could make a cp3600 toon, with BIS gear and test your constant claims that these sets ruin you experiance as they give a massive DPS increase!

I do not know why you keep throwing shade at me. Could you not have just offered a reply without the hate?

I have Toons on PCNA and PCEU so have ready mades for each PTS.

I'm just pointing out things and suggesting that you can see how true all the statments you have made about high geared and CP end players ruinnung your experiance actually are, eg your DPS in said sets and CP.

Also these are words on a screen, so no one can hear my tone, facial expression or body posture.

If you want me to respond to the part I bolded, here it is? A friend an I went into the Night Market as the characters we generally play in live. We were insta-killed several times by mobs. We went back to base and use CP3600 stats, dungeon gold gear, gold pots, and tank skills. The fights went better. So yes, being capped and having access to dungeon gear matters. Is that what you wanted to hear?

Not sure what the reference to high levels ruining your experience comes from since having high level gear makes content easier.

shadoza · 12:45AM

Aydh wrote: »

extremely useful to test live vs pts with actual chars.

Will you explain why you think that having live-copied characters are useful in PTS?

Freelancer_ESO · 12:55AM

shadoza wrote: »

Aydh wrote: »

extremely useful to test live vs pts with actual chars.

Will you explain why you think that having live-copied characters are useful in PTS?

It lets you easily compare the PTS experience to the Live experience and easily test content that has different behaviors if you have done other content.

PrinceShroob · 1:14AM

Live characters have quests completed that would be unreasonably arduous to do on the PTS. Notably, having this progress was what allowed a progress-blocking dialogue bug to be discovered when part 2 of Solstice was on PTS.

Additionally, certain furnishings are completely unavailable on PTS, such as luxury furnishings. You can only test with them by having them available to your characters on a server.

code65536 · 2:03AM

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

Because this case is not about your testing. It's about their (i.e., ZOS's) testing.

Here is my vantage. If you must test with your character, then are you not actually testing your character's ability to do the content rather than testing the content itself? If your character cannot smoothly do the content, then you decide the content is bad and if they can do it easily, you decide, the content is easy . . .
By having a new character with all the options, one can test low to high end levels, various gear levels and group to solo relatability without making it a personal campaign.
Suggesting that the server needs characters from the live game doesn't make sense to me. How does it matter?

Their statement is that they needed to test something related to crossplay. SInce crossplay involves involves interaction between characters from different servers, it seems plausible that whatever they're testing might involve the character database from a particular server. I don't know the specifics of what they're testing, and it's unlikely that they'll ever disclose that, but the point is, this copy is about a test that they want to conduct that is unrelated to whatever it is that you were wanting to test on the PTS.

shadoza · 4:02AM

code65536 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

PTS is for testing, and at times that has meant ZOS being the ones testing stuff.

So given the nature of cross-play, it's not surprising that something like this might be necessary.

How does having characters copied improve testing?

Because this case is not about your testing. It's about their (i.e., ZOS's) testing.

Here is my vantage. If you must test with your character, then are you not actually testing your character's ability to do the content rather than testing the content itself? If your character cannot smoothly do the content, then you decide the content is bad and if they can do it easily, you decide, the content is easy . . .
By having a new character with all the options, one can test low to high end levels, various gear levels and group to solo relatability without making it a personal campaign.
Suggesting that the server needs characters from the live game doesn't make sense to me. How does it matter?

Their statement is that they needed to test something related to crossplay. SInce crossplay involves involves interaction between characters from different servers, it seems plausible that whatever they're testing might involve the character database from a particular server. I don't know the specifics of what they're testing, and it's unlikely that they'll ever disclose that, but the point is, this copy is about a test that they want to conduct that is unrelated to whatever it is that you were wanting to test on the PTS.

If you do not know what I am wanting to test, how can you know if it is unrelated?

Kelinmiriel · 8:21AM

I appreciate having the NA copy brought back at the end of the test cycle. We've been asking for this for years. I've run into circumstances where something was broken during the first two weeks that didn't get fixed - it was put off until later, or just didn't apply, like an event - those only run for one week each. I've created characters on the EU specifically to be able to have them for the PTS, but I haven't spent as much time or effect (or crowns) on them as I have on the NA, so I simply can't test as much with them as with my NA characters.

So - thank you.