Night Market Keys.

frogthroat · May 8

Furyous wrote: »

People are already dropping the event because they can't help their friends without losing their own keys. Having to kill 21 bosses every single time you want to do the trial gets old fast.

True. I will not help anyone with the dungeons because I have two trial runs coming. I have the golden keys and I have the Argent keys, so after the first trial I just need to do the dungeons. If I would help anyone with the dungeons, I would lose the Argent keys.

Therefore, sorry anyone from my guilds or in group finder, can't help you before I have done my trials. Best of luck, though.

Gabriel_H · May 8

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

The devs dont want us just going in there with a handpicked trial group and I dont blame them. You can't just race in there, fill up the achievement book and bounce this time.

A hand-picked dedicated vet trial group could get all the dungeon keys, clear the dungeon, and then the trial in less than an hour.

The only part that took any time was getting the relics, which required the skirmish and a (now hotfixed) random coffer drop. Re-farming the keys takes no time, which is what makes it such an unnecessary grind.

Katahdin · May 9

As is this system is miserable. We have to do a key inventory every night we try to run a group.

Some of us in my group have been doing this content 2-3 nights a week since it started. Most of us have yet to get to the dungeons because we have to continually try to get others in our group the argent keys to get to that point. Some cant show up to the gilded group on that night, so they find another group. Some of us have other groups and have done them then they need to refarm the argent again. So some of us cant get beyond Argent bosses because we never have enough with them to run it.

Athory · May 9

Oo!? But... I mean... I talked about this in my topic, and people seemed to be against it. One of the problems in the [snip] market is the keys. I've been saying this since the second day... but it seemed like I was the only one. Now, though, it seems like everyone is tired of playing in groups (lol??) and just wants to go straight to trials?! Okay, okay, that seems fair...
And I see players with two different opinions... lol! First they say, “Nah...”, but now they’re saying, “Yeah...” Oh boy...

BahometZ · 2:32AM

Couldn't agree more with the complaints above.

I simply assumed that keys were character specific because surely it makes sense. Who on earth wants to micro-manage their keys in this manner?

There are too many examples to count for how this system will screw players over. We are not all on the same schedules, nor are our guilds doing the same content, nor using the same roles. Raid comp is not the same as dungeon comp.

heimdall14_9 · 7:31AM

3 alliance's, 3 stages, 3 dungeons, 3 groups in trail , 3 helms , see the common number 3 ..

MASTER KEY SYSTEM 3 runs unlocks everything

1st unlocks argents
2nd unlocks gildeds
3rd unlocks trial

the number 3 holds a lot of ESO together 😁

Ardriel · 8:58AM

It's the same with so many things in this game... well-intentioned, but not properly thought through and poorly designed..

Athory · 9:46AM

I’m trying to understand the feedback here, because it sounds a bit conflicting.

On one hand, some players say they want more group-focused content like the [snip] Market-style zones, where people work together and help-each-other. (Other topics)
On the other hand, some of the same players are now asking to skip or reduce the group progression (the keys / Argent -> Gilded -> trial loop) and go directly to the trial. oO?!

So I’m genuinely curious, what kind of group experience do "you" actually want here?

More shared progression and collaborative content?
Or faster access to the end trial without repeating earlier steps?

I’m not trying to argue, just trying to understand how these expectations fit together.

I mentioned earlier that this system will cause issues after a short time, and it seems like those concerns are already showing up in here. That’s part of why I’m trying to understand the different viewpoints now.

EDIT:
What I’m trying to understand is how skipping straight into trials fits the idea of the [snip] Market at all.
The whole point of that zone, as many players described it, is a place where people work together, help-each-other, and progress as a group.
But skipping the key loop and going directly into trials… that’s literally what ESO already offers. We already have instant trial access in the game. No?
So I’m struggling to see how removing the shared progression steps makes the [snip] Market "more Hardcore group‑focused". It feels like the two ideas contradict each other:

If the Market is supposed to encourage teamwork, why remove the part where people actually team up and progress together?
If the goal is faster access to trial, then what makes the Market different from the normal trial system we already have?

That’s why I’m asking, I’m not seeing how these two expectations connect. I know I’m a bit different in how I see things, so…

Ardriel · 10:13AM

Athory wrote: »

I’m trying to understand the feedback here, because it sounds a bit conflicting.

On one hand, some players say they want more group-focused content like the [snip] Market-style zones, where people work together and help-each-other. (Other topics)
On the other hand, some of the same players are now asking to skip or reduce the group progression (the keys / Argent -> Gilded -> trial loop) and go directly to the trial. oO?!

So I’m genuinely curious, what kind of group experience do "you" actually want here?
More shared progression and collaborative content?

Or faster access to the end trial without repeating earlier steps?

I’m not trying to argue, just trying to understand how these expectations fit together.

I mentioned earlier that this system will cause issues after a short time, and it seems like those concerns are already showing up in here. That’s part of why I’m trying to understand the different viewpoints now.

One thing doesn't necessarily rule out the other. A lot of people enjoy the group play content. It's just that the key system isn't ideal. It actually makes group play more difficult, as was already mentioned here. It's harder to find people for the trial and it's harder to find people for the dungeons because of the keys required. There has to be a better solution.

Roztlin45 · 10:15AM

I have just given up on the keys , dungeons and the trials of the night market. I think the key idea is a terrible design for the dungeon / trial concept inside the night market. This is a bad path forward. As players not regularly involved in sweaty guilds and mainly use PUG groups have a very hard time participating in this key non-sense.

Athory · 10:27AM

@Ardriel

Well, this isn’t really bait, it isn’t, but I can only reply in one way.

[snip] Market is hard for solo players. (Then remake the build or join others... Skill issue...)
[snip] Market isn’t fun and doesn’t have a real place in ESO. (Players love it, and they’ve been asking for this kind of content for years.)
Another way to handle the trial‑key system. (No. Please don’t! I honestly believe you’re all getting exactly what you asked for.)
Please, ZOS, don’t nerf the Market. (Please, ZOS… don’t.)
Come on… just enjoy the Market and the new "hardcore" way of helping each other. They need you!

"Your/my" words
my words (What "you" said to me)

SerafinaWaterstar · 2:00PM

Athory wrote: »

I’m trying to understand the feedback here, because it sounds a bit conflicting.

On one hand, some players say they want more group-focused content like the [snip] Market-style zones, where people work together and help-each-other. (Other topics)
On the other hand, some of the same players are now asking to skip or reduce the group progression (the keys / Argent -> Gilded -> trial loop) and go directly to the trial. oO?!

So I’m genuinely curious, what kind of group experience do "you" actually want here?
More shared progression and collaborative content?

Or faster access to the end trial without repeating earlier steps?

I’m not trying to argue, just trying to understand how these expectations fit together.

I mentioned earlier that this system will cause issues after a short time, and it seems like those concerns are already showing up in here. That’s part of why I’m trying to understand the different viewpoints now.

EDIT:
What I’m trying to understand is how skipping straight into trials fits the idea of the [snip] Market at all.
The whole point of that zone, as many players described it, is a place where people work together, help-each-other, and progress as a group.
But skipping the key loop and going directly into trials… that’s literally what ESO already offers. We already have instant trial access in the game. No?
So I’m struggling to see how removing the shared progression steps makes the [snip] Market "more Hardcore group‑focused". It feels like the two ideas contradict each other:
If the Market is supposed to encourage teamwork, why remove the part where people actually team up and progress together?

If the goal is faster access to trial, then what makes the Market different from the normal trial system we already have?

That’s why I’m asking, I’m not seeing how these two expectations connect. I know I’m a bit different in how I see things, so…

The point is that sounds great on paper, and should be easy for those with no outside responsibilities who can run through the stages together in a relatively short time.

But this is the real world, where people DO have different demands on their time, and so cannot always get on to the game.

So you get the situation where people want to do the trial, say, but they haven’t got all the requisite bits.

So first you help each other get all the relic bits. Excellent. Then you get all the Argent keys. Fab.

So you go to do the dungeons. Great. Now Have gold key for the trial.

But wait - some in the group don’t have the gold key as they haven’t managed to get in and complete the dungeons. But a lot of the group can’t just jump in and help them as they HAVE just done the dungeons snd therefore don’t have the right keys to access that dungeons.

So off you all toddle to go through the process of killing the Argents; only you have to kill the Brazen first to make the Argent appear.

By that time its been a while & people have to work the next day or whatever and so you arrange the trial for another night.

Trial night comes, but sadly someone has to drop out because of real life, but you can’t find a replacement as THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT KEYS. So you start the process again.

And then people leave as they have lost the will to live.

There is working together to help each other, which is good and fine and fun.

Then there is needlessly putting up ridiculous barriers to people being able to group & help each other. This is the key system in the Night Market.

Oh yes, and don’t forget this is a time limited event, not some trial people can just run anytime they like. Again, not engaging or helpful gameplay.

heimdall14_9 · 4:32PM

Athory wrote: »

I’m trying to understand the feedback here, because it sounds a bit conflicting.

On one hand, some players say they want more group-focused content like the [snip] Market-style zones, where people work together and help-each-other. (Other topics)
On the other hand, some of the same players are now asking to skip or reduce the group progression (the keys / Argent -> Gilded -> trial loop) and go directly to the trial. oO?!

So I’m genuinely curious, what kind of group experience do "you" actually want here?
More shared progression and collaborative content?

Or faster access to the end trial without repeating earlier steps?

I’m not trying to argue, just trying to understand how these expectations fit together.

I mentioned earlier that this system will cause issues after a short time, and it seems like those concerns are already showing up in here. That’s part of why I’m trying to understand the different viewpoints now.

EDIT:
What I’m trying to understand is how skipping straight into trials fits the idea of the [snip] Market at all.
The whole point of that zone, as many players described it, is a place where people work together, help-each-other, and progress as a group.
But skipping the key loop and going directly into trials… that’s literally what ESO already offers. We already have instant trial access in the game. No?
So I’m struggling to see how removing the shared progression steps makes the [snip] Market "more Hardcore group‑focused". It feels like the two ideas contradict each other:
If the Market is supposed to encourage teamwork, why remove the part where people actually team up and progress together?

If the goal is faster access to trial, then what makes the Market different from the normal trial system we already have?

That’s why I’m asking, I’m not seeing how these two expectations connect. I know I’m a bit different in how I see things, so…

having a better key system that lets you the play progress so that you can freely do everything after X amount of times , wont take away group play , but would give them that has done everything they needed done and gives them the freedom there after to help others ... not needing to do 2 or 3 ( some times more ) things just to get keys then be able to help out someone whos never done something .. im not asking for the group play of the NM to be taken away just made so that US that run content faster then the rest can still be able to help them that play slowly whitout the need to do extra steps just to help

ill use myself ive done everything 4 times now , if i wanted to help in a dungeon id need to get 2 keys so 6 fights (4 booses 2 argents ) just to help out the player in a dungeon . this HOLDS me back from herlping out others

Lucasl402 · 4:33PM

The keys should be permanent once earned.

It needs to be this way not because the keys are hard to earn, they are not, but it matters a great deal when trying to form groups for the trial.

tsaescishoeshiner · 6:06PM

Instrad of keys, they should add a daily quest with bonus rewards for the dungeons and trials.

Or they can rework it so there's just more rewards if you have a key, so that you can always join your friends but still want to do the other content (optionally) for better rewards.

It's also a pain point that the dungeons need 4 people of certain roles, whereas the trial needs 12 and the Argent bosses are usually run by roleless large groups.

heimdall14_9 · 6:19PM

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Instrad of keys, they should add a daily quest with bonus rewards for the dungeons and trials.

Or they can rework it so there's just more rewards if you have a key, so that you can always join your friends but still want to do the other content (optionally) for better rewards.

It's also a pain point that the dungeons need 4 people of certain roles, whereas the trial needs 12 and the Argent bosses are usually run by roleless large groups.

the game is 20 % support 80% dps .... that means there is 40-60% of the players without others whom may help them and after a few runs them numbers get to be bigger in difference and not in a good way

Aydh · 6:44PM

I am in a small guild, and an active healer. We have a number of shy people who dont really like going lfg and rely on guild groups to complete content. With this key wall, it has been difficult to help people complete the dungeon content as I run out of keys long before the dps pool does.

Please either remove the key requirement after N-dungeon completions, or let us stack keys to something reasonable, even 3 or 4 would be a huge help.

Thank you.