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We will be performing maintenance for patch 12.0.4 on the PTS on Monday at 12:00AM EDT (4:00 UTC).
U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery
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acanca✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »Dunno maybe because la travels fast and ba travels slow squeezing it over 1.2 sec mark, i can try to get a vid if you want.
The screenshot is using Rapid Strikes, you were using a melee weapon in melee range. Melee instant attacks land instantly unlike projectiles that have a minimum travel time. I don't need a recording because that's just how time works and it's besides the point. You can't proc something 4 times within 0.8s if there is a 0.3s cooldown, so I can only assume there was some type of delay.People are already ranting about one shot gank builds from live server, what do you think is going to happen with this passive, is it going to make for a healthy game play or will it just help sorc secure a kill way easier than normal because people combined it with Font and didnt care about their survivability in the first place. I agree with you that sorcs other passives are way stronger and needs adjustment, but i dont think this passive is healthy for the game at all. At least status effects (except poisoned), dont act as an execute.
I swear it's like you didn't read anything I wrote, you're not going to 1 shot anyone with this by its very definition. It can't proc more than 3 times a second. People are complaining about Signet + Status Effects + Force Pulse + Asylum Destro which procs 3~7 status efects for 2-3x the damage as Static, ALL at the same time, that complaint is not comparable in the slightest. The set needs a massive nerf. Base status effects and by extension Static are not an issue.
I do not doubt casuals will complain about it despite it being meh because it ticks frequently for very little, Death Recaps will show "10,000 damage x 45" and they'll misunderstand what really killed them. You're complaining about it and it seems you haven't even fought a player using it and the type of build it requires vs whats possible.And again, this passive is supposed to be good at low health thresholds and we are talking about 62% (granted inflated) probability of it proccing at 90% hp, its obviously way better at lower health tresholds.
It is good at low health, the problem is it's bad at high health and PVP takes place at or around the 70~100% zone before you're asking to be deleted. 1 proc a second is only 20% stronger than Burning Light, and your suggestion is to make it like that with a % chance... for a Mastery? We're talking about bonuses that give 1500 w/s damage vs 258, 5x more valuable on average, and your suggestion is to make it nearly equal to Burning Light.. Do you not see how that makes no sense?..at least status effects don't act as an execute..
How did you come to this concluson?
In a build where you could get a tooltip of 2000 on Static, you would also have 2140 Burning (x3), 2356 for Chill, and 2356 for Concuss.. but these 3 among the other 5 can be multiplied by 85% on Signet, 40% from Warden, 15% from Arcanist, 40% from Arcanist set, 30~50% from DK, etc, etc. There is no Static dedicated multiplier. They have no CD, so a player abusing the obvious mechanics right now can do this 3~7 times with Asylum D Staff, yet before Signet, it was NEVER a problem, so why is a it problem now?
But your right.. status effects don't act as an execute because they're just fantastic all the time, they don't need low health.And again, i agree that i would just take the guaranteed damage with Font as well but thats mainly because i tend to a more brawler play style, i dont think this passive is bad at all, turning a half health BA into an execute by itself imo makes it problematic. I also know your view on BA, i disagree, BA is a good skill imo.
Never said it was bad, I said it's not worth the opportunity/cost, what your suggestion is would absolutely murder it from any sort of viability however small I may see it as.
Whatever, not gonna change your mind, just saying if you want your class improved, maybe avoid burning bridges, and putting out false information. Focus on improving your own class. Either way, you won't catch me using this Mastery in its current state beyond role play.
Not to be mean or confrontational, but it has to be said that the one you argue with has done nothing on the PTS but ask for Sorc to get nerfed, despite insisting it being their most played class. Every single post is about this, and the conclusion is ever such that no one can convince them despite the best evidence.
So truly; it is clear to me what this all aims towards. This all just some blind agenda borne from ire.
Sorc does need toning down and necro, templar and maybe arcanist (dunno about arcanist to say much, seems to have become a proc bot again, havent felt strong when i used it but have played against strong arca) needs some help, so does nb but honestly buffing them cant end well for the health of the game so nbs situation is a little different
I played all the classes on pts and my conclusion is that sorc and dk are overwhelmingly ahead of the rest, i am also asking for what i think is too strong about dk to be adjusted though thats on the class abilities thread and i also repeatedly asked for the other classes to be buffed on this thread. Except NB, i asked for NB class masteries to be buffed but also reworked more into a brawler type deal to be better for the health of the game.
I also ofc asked sorc to be adjusted for the health of the game yet there are way too many sorc mains (the concept of a main is still funny to me), that shudder at the idea that their class ever be adjusted.
Seriously, you can go back and check all i said. The only reason what i say about sorc is more visible is because sorc mains are ready to die on a hill trying to explain to you that CoE, the single most busted passive for pvp, is actually not that good or needs a buff etc, like we havent all used it and know how good it is. And then the gall to say i have an agenda lol. Yes i do, the name of my agenda is a healthy and diverse meta ...Edited by acanca on May 9, 2026 7:14AM0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »ItsNotLiving wrote: »Nightblade vs. Sorcerer beef has been going on since 2014 lol. Except now nobody complains about Shields or Cloak, its all about math and damage formulas barf.
Funny and true, but it feels really one sided if you ask me. I don't know why I even bother trying to fight for NB buffs when the same players that would benefit from it the most will never be happy and selfishly try to knock down every other class except their own. I mean come on, what even is this:Pinktraining wrote: »
Sorc should also be subject to a "battle spirit" mechanic, reducing the base chance of Static Reverberation in PvP to -10%!VinnyGambini wrote: »Every single Sorc passive should be HALVED in PvP!
Conservation of Energy - reduce effectiveness in PvP by HALF!
Font of Power - reduce spell dmg boost in PvP by HALF!
Calculated Defense - reduce shield size in PvP by HALF!
Sphere of Influence - reduce recovery in PvP by HALF!
And then on top of that reduce by 55% by battle spirit!
It's finally time to take care of this broken class in PvP!
i thought those were sarcastic tbh, guess not.
Sorc masteries for sure needs a toning down though, there isnt a single class mastery as impactful as CoE for pvp among any of the class masteries nor half as desirable and it synergizes way too well with Font for too much value. I dont want 90% of my time to be spent on sorc and dk with the rest on a pressure build with b4b on warden. Sure seems like thats how its gonna go though, they ought to at least cut the healing on CoE in half at this point for the health of the game ...
I wanna play on all classes, i want a meta where you can take necro for a spin and dont feel like you are torturing yourself. And yeah i wanna use corpseburster in pvp so i hope Zos changes their mind on not letting players test stuff in public Test server
CoE is a strong sustain passive but it’s only delivering on sustain, it doesn’t deliver any power to Sorcs.
Font, IMO, is one of the stronger ones but it requires a “Sorcerer” ability to proc. Sorc doesn’t have a reliable spammable and the (on average) 20% bump to W/S is scaling off base stats, it’s not stacking with many of the other bumps to W/S so while it is strong it’s not OP strong in the context of current power creep, especially in PvP.
On paper these passives look strong but there’s very real tradeoffs here to using them.
We can’t advocate for nerfs to Sorc passives just to make things more playable for other classes. The point with Sorc passives is to elevate Sorc to Subclass & DK levels of power. While I think they definitely fall short on the power delivery at least the sustain gives a Sorc more opportunity to use what they do have.
If you want to play certain classes a certain way then the right thing to do is advocate for their passives to be stronger or deliver more synergy with the class right now; not chuck Sorcs.
You are grasping at straws now, keeping font up is hard? really? When was the last time you had to even worry about keeping it active? And CoE is only about sustain? What do you mean only sustain, its the strongest heal over time in the game by far and what do you mean ''only'' sustain like the amount of sustain we are getting is somehow unimportant, this passive is so good that if you put all the sustain passives of other classes together im not sure if they would top them thats how much sustain we are getting.
Obviously we can and should adjust the overperforming classes so that they arent the overwhelmingly most effective way to play. I dont want you to misunderstand, im not advocating for a sorc nerf, im advocating for a diverse meta. Sorc is one of my favorite classes, probably one of my most played classes, but again, i want to be able to play arcanist, templar, necro and not feel like im gimping myself. Currently sorc and dk are just that ahead and we all know it.
If class masteries goes live like they are curerntly, we'll be sick of the game in one month tops.
It’s not that keeping Font up is hard, it’s that keeping Font up requires one to slot Sorc skills into continuous rotation and given how poor Sorc skills are overall that’s a lot to ask for, especially a Mag based Sorc.
Remember, the tradeoff to this passive is Sorc only skills so if a subclassed Sorc is out here being competitive with skills that deliver more power or buff / debuff utility than what’s in the Sorc lineup they have to give that up for Font.
Sorc skills are notoriously some of the worst when it comes to long and clunky animations or the mechanism of how they deal damage so, no, it’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not optimal. Spamming Crushing Shock, for example, won’t proc Font.
As for CoE, it expands the proc to Blood Magics passive heal which really only works to bring Sorc in line (capability wise) with other classes. To say CoE or Blood Magic is the strongest HoT in the game is blatantly false. For starters, Vigor is a stronger HoT but even that aside skills like Puncturing Sweep, Swallow Soul, Sap Essence, Burning Embers, Hungry Scythe .. all of these skills provide an additional passive heal component on top of dealing damage and are spammable. Sorc is one of the few classes that doesn’t have a way to passively heal while dealing damage at the same time, which is why CoE is needed for Sorc.
Yes, Sorcs do have some of the stronger self heals in the game but one of them carries the “slotting a pet penalty” and the others require a full GCD to execute an independent skill. Being able to combine healing + damage output changes rotations and combat potential by a lot and Sorcs can’t do it.
If those other skills weren’t in the game or even if they weren’t so common across the classes or even if those skills didn’t scale their healing to comparable values as CoE then you’d have a point but none of those things are true.
And yes, CoE does deliver on that high sustain but CoE isn’t delivering on the raw power subclasses have.
You have to look at the highest potential achievable values in PvP and that’s your benchmark, that’s the goal post here. Anything less than that and you’re not enabling Sorcs to be competitive. The same goes for the passives in every class. They have to be as strong as the meta if they’re going to counter the meta.
And speaking of meats, I’m very much anti-meta. I don’t agree with or believe that any MMO should have a meta, and there’s absolutely a solid way to do it but we all know the Devs wouldn’t even entertain it.
If you want to play other classes and not feel like you’re “gimping yourself”, I agree with that, I don’t think you should feel that way either, but I’m also going to say that you’re best bet is to advocate that those classes get stronger mastery passives or ones align really well with the class skills because I’m measuring Sorc based on the top tier current subclass meta. I know what sort of power those builds bring, a lot of us do, and it’s not just raw power it’s mechanical variety and the combination of both of those are huge. If these passives don’t slap then the subclassed builds will continue to dominate everyone in PvP.
For reference I’m running Storm Calling + Aedric Spear + Herald of the Tome (not for Fatecarver) for my PvP build and even with these passives it’s a tall order for me to give up those two skill lines plus the passives they’re giving to slot the Sorc passives. .. think about that, I’m having to give up the potential variety of 10 whole skills and 8 passives for weaker skills and only 2 mastery passives. Burning light deals more damage than Static and I currently have no sustain issue so Font is really the only tempt here, and even that’s a maybe because my W/S damage is pretty high as is so to lose the potential I get from those two subclassed skill lines & their passives the benefit from Sorc needs to be REALLY strong. .. And also remember, not everyone is Stam Sorc, some of us have put in A LOT of work to make a Mag Sorc viable at all in PvP because the class is so weak. The passives are needed.Edited by NxJoeyD on May 9, 2026 5:52AM3 -
acanca✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »ItsNotLiving wrote: »Nightblade vs. Sorcerer beef has been going on since 2014 lol. Except now nobody complains about Shields or Cloak, its all about math and damage formulas barf.
Funny and true, but it feels really one sided if you ask me. I don't know why I even bother trying to fight for NB buffs when the same players that would benefit from it the most will never be happy and selfishly try to knock down every other class except their own. I mean come on, what even is this:Pinktraining wrote: »
Sorc should also be subject to a "battle spirit" mechanic, reducing the base chance of Static Reverberation in PvP to -10%!VinnyGambini wrote: »Every single Sorc passive should be HALVED in PvP!
Conservation of Energy - reduce effectiveness in PvP by HALF!
Font of Power - reduce spell dmg boost in PvP by HALF!
Calculated Defense - reduce shield size in PvP by HALF!
Sphere of Influence - reduce recovery in PvP by HALF!
And then on top of that reduce by 55% by battle spirit!
It's finally time to take care of this broken class in PvP!
i thought those were sarcastic tbh, guess not.
Sorc masteries for sure needs a toning down though, there isnt a single class mastery as impactful as CoE for pvp among any of the class masteries nor half as desirable and it synergizes way too well with Font for too much value. I dont want 90% of my time to be spent on sorc and dk with the rest on a pressure build with b4b on warden. Sure seems like thats how its gonna go though, they ought to at least cut the healing on CoE in half at this point for the health of the game ...
I wanna play on all classes, i want a meta where you can take necro for a spin and dont feel like you are torturing yourself. And yeah i wanna use corpseburster in pvp so i hope Zos changes their mind on not letting players test stuff in public Test server
CoE is a strong sustain passive but it’s only delivering on sustain, it doesn’t deliver any power to Sorcs.
Font, IMO, is one of the stronger ones but it requires a “Sorcerer” ability to proc. Sorc doesn’t have a reliable spammable and the (on average) 20% bump to W/S is scaling off base stats, it’s not stacking with many of the other bumps to W/S so while it is strong it’s not OP strong in the context of current power creep, especially in PvP.
On paper these passives look strong but there’s very real tradeoffs here to using them.
We can’t advocate for nerfs to Sorc passives just to make things more playable for other classes. The point with Sorc passives is to elevate Sorc to Subclass & DK levels of power. While I think they definitely fall short on the power delivery at least the sustain gives a Sorc more opportunity to use what they do have.
If you want to play certain classes a certain way then the right thing to do is advocate for their passives to be stronger or deliver more synergy with the class right now; not chuck Sorcs.
You are grasping at straws now, keeping font up is hard? really? When was the last time you had to even worry about keeping it active? And CoE is only about sustain? What do you mean only sustain, its the strongest heal over time in the game by far and what do you mean ''only'' sustain like the amount of sustain we are getting is somehow unimportant, this passive is so good that if you put all the sustain passives of other classes together im not sure if they would top them thats how much sustain we are getting.
Obviously we can and should adjust the overperforming classes so that they arent the overwhelmingly most effective way to play. I dont want you to misunderstand, im not advocating for a sorc nerf, im advocating for a diverse meta. Sorc is one of my favorite classes, probably one of my most played classes, but again, i want to be able to play arcanist, templar, necro and not feel like im gimping myself. Currently sorc and dk are just that ahead and we all know it.
If class masteries goes live like they are curerntly, we'll be sick of the game in one month tops.
It’s not that keeping Font up is hard, it’s that keeping Font up requires one to slot Sorc skills into continuous rotation and given how poor Sorc skills are overall that’s a lot to ask for, especially a Mag based Sorc.
Remember, the tradeoff to this passive is Sorc only skills so if a subclassed Sorc is out here being competitive with skills that deliver more power or buff / debuff utility than what’s in the Sorc lineup they have to give that up for Font.
Sorc skills are notoriously some of the worst when it comes to long and clunky animations or the mechanism of how they deal damage so, no, it’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not optimal. Spamming Crushing Shock, for example, won’t proc Font.
As for CoE, it expands the proc to Blood Magics passive heal which really only works to bring Sorc in line (capability wise) with other classes. To say CoE or Blood Magic is the strongest HoT in the game is blatantly false. For starters, Vigor is a stronger HoT but even that aside skills like Puncturing Sweep, Swallow Soul, Sap Essence, Burning Embers, Hungry Scythe .. all of these skills provide an additional passive heal component on top of dealing damage and are spammable. Sorc is one of the few classes that doesn’t have a way to passively heal while dealing damage at the same time, which is why CoE is needed for Sorc.
Yes, Sorcs do have some of the stronger self heals in the game but one of them carries the “slotting a pet penalty” and the others require a full GCD to execute an independent skill. Being able to combine healing + damage output changes rotations and combat potential by a lot and Sorcs can’t do it.
If those other skills weren’t in the game or even if they weren’t so common across the classes or even if those skills didn’t scale their healing to comparable values as CoE then you’d have a point but none of those things are true.
And yes, CoE does deliver on that high sustain but CoE isn’t delivering on the raw power subclasses have.
You have to look at the highest potential achievable values in PvP and that’s your benchmark, that’s the goal post here. Anything less than that and you’re not enabling Sorcs to be competitive. The same goes for the passives in every class. They have to be as strong as the meta if they’re going to counter the meta.
And speaking of meats, I’m very much anti-meta. I don’t agree with or believe that any MMO should have a meta, and there’s absolutely a solid way to do it but we all know the Devs wouldn’t even entertain it.
If you want to play other classes and not feel like you’re “gimping yourself”, I agree with that, I don’t think you should feel that way either, but I’m also going to say that you’re best bet is to advocate that those classes get stronger mastery passives or ones align really well with the class skills because I’m measuring Sorc based on the top tier current subclass meta. I know what sort of power those builds bring, a lot of us do, and it’s not just raw power it’s mechanical variety and the combination of both of those are huge. If these passives don’t slap then the subclassed builds will continue to dominate everyone in PvP.
For reference I’m running Storm Calling + Aedric Spear + Herald of the Tome (not for Fatecarver) for my PvP build and even with these passives it’s a tall order for me to give up those two skill lines plus the passives they’re giving to slot the Sorc passives. .. think about that, I’m having to give up the potential variety of 10 whole skills and 8 passives for weaker skills and only 2 mastery passives. Burning light deals more damage than Static and I currently have no sustain issue so Font is really the only tempt here, and even that’s a maybe because my W/S damage is pretty high as is so to lose the potential I get from those two subclassed skill lines & their passives the benefit from Sorc needs to be REALLY strong. .. And also remember, not everyone is Stam Sorc, some of us have put in A LOT of work to make a Mag Sorc viable at all in PvP because the class is so weak. The passives are needed.
I'm not even going to entertain a discussion that font is hard to keep active or CoE is anything other than extremely strong. It was funny the first few times but no, there is no discussion to be had, you are plainly wrong0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
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For reference I’m running Storm Calling + Aedric Spear + Herald of the Tome (not for Fatecarver) for my PvP build and even with these passives it’s a tall order for me to give up those two skill lines plus the passives they’re giving to slot the Sorc passives. .. think about that, I’m having to give up the potential variety of 10 whole skills and 8 passives for weaker skills and only 2 mastery passives. Burning light deals more damage than Static and I currently have no sustain issue so Font is really the only tempt here, and even that’s a maybe because my W/S damage is pretty high as is so to lose the potential I get from those two subclassed skill lines & their passives the benefit from Sorc needs to be REALLY strong. .. And also remember, not everyone is Stam Sorc, some of us have put in A LOT of work to make a Mag Sorc viable at all in PvP because the class is so weak. The passives are needed.
Imagine trading a meager 20% spell damage and the fixing of an underpowered talent and skill line for 24% crit damage, extra penetration (which % damage wise already takes a good chunk out of that 20% spell damage by itself) base spell damage and status damage as well as damage buffs from skills.
Really, nothing of that laughable Font of Power remains when you put those subclass talents next to it. I really don't understand how anyone can put these things beside one another and think this is somehow fair and that Font doesn't need a considerable buff. WHICH goes for many other underpowered classes damage masteries too.
Obviously a class that already has 12% crit damage and various damage done talents in its tree doesn't receive the same amount of spell damage from a mastery. People foolishly compare class masteries between one another without considering why one class gets more than another. For 1 pure class, 800 spell damage barely does a thing, while for another, 600 spell damage is all they really need. Some classes need more help passive wise than others.Edited by Dracane on May 9, 2026 9:09AMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.3 -
Orbital78✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is there a list of all the masteries in their current buffed/nerfed states in the PTS like in a condensed list. I looked on ESO-Hub and didn't see anything (probably not till live).0 -
pluvioisaplanet✭✭✭Crossposting feedback here for visibility.
From a PvE perspective, this is mainly aimed at trials, though some of the same problems apply to dungeons (mainly the problems with overload) where competing DPS options matter less.
On the Power Level of Sorc in Content
Sorc parses have always looked high on the dummy, but this has never translated to them being a top single-target option in actual content.
Power Overload
Power Overload is responsible for a significant portion of Sorc's dummy numbers. Taking a 200k sorc parse from week 4, without overload, parses would be closer to 180–185k which is very weak for such a single target focused class. It doesn't scale well and is impractical to use in content:- Overload cannot receive ultimate from group sources through sets like Cryptcanon's Vestments or Pillager's Profit, meaning you get no extra hits in content compared to the dummy. While other classes are chaining ultimates through burst phases, Overload simply won't keep up.
- You need a large amount of ultimate stored for it to be effective, particularly when paired with the Shattered Paths Signet mythic.
- Sorc has long been required to use their Atronach ult, which has significantly less single target potential compared to overload, in content to provide Major Berserk to the group, though the new DK class mastery covering this buff may ease that pressure going forward.
Group Buffs Being Used on Dummy Parses- Shocking Banner benefits Sorc a decent bit due to its high proportion of direct damage, plus the extra weapon and spell damage from Cavalier's Charge. Sorc gets to use banner on dummy because it can sustain it fine, and there aren't enough good skills to slot.
- Traveling Knife with Assassin's Misery buffs Sorc significantly more than the banner, because Sorc's many direct hits and good base status chance benefits a lot from the extra status chance from Assassin's Misery. Other builds will catch up or surpass Sorc once this is factored into their parses
Sorc Ceiling vs. Other Classes
Strip away Overload, Shocking Banner, and Status Knife, and Sorc is left quite weak and behind almost all other classes, dragonknight, nightblade, and templar not even having any of the previous 2 mentioned group buffs on dummy. Meanwhile, other classes are going to get substantially stronger in actual content when you add these, and more, to their parses.
Comparing the higher sorc and nb parses from week 4:
Nightblade, as the main other single target focused class, doesn't have the benefit of Banner or Status Knife on dummy, and just adding these two to the current 193k Nightblade parse will put it past Sorc's 200k parse. Add other group buffs like Morag Tong, Pillager's Profit, and Cryptcanon, none of which Overload Sorc can benefit from, and the gap widens further. If we remove Overload sorc will be getting gapped way before adding any of these group buffs.
So we need either sorc to be significantly buffed, or for overload to be reworked to be more viable in content. As right now sorc parses heavily crutch on overload when it's not being used in content at all.
Possible idea for Overload?
Overload being impractical in content is the core of the problem, so one idea I've been thinking about is for Overload to consume a fixed 100 ultimate (similar to Werewolf) and empower the next 4 light attacks, rather than draining your entire ult reserve. This would let Overload Sorc benefit from ultimate generation in content and better compete with Nightblade in particular. The exact numbers matter less than the core concept: drain X ultimate, empower the next Y light attacks.
Edit: Adding some of my parses to demonstrate overload with banner and status knife, overload without banner or status knife, and finally no overload with banner and status knife. Gear and CPs stay the same, apart from dropping Signet for Warmask for the no overload parse. It feels impossible to get good parses on PTS with my latency, so these are lower than what they can actually reach, but the point is to show the difference between the options for sorc.
Overload, Banner + Status Knife 191k - https://imgur.com/gallery/u50-pts-week-4-sorc-overload-banner-status-knife-89kNc7x
Overload, No Banner or Status Knife 179k - https://imgur.com/gallery/u50-pts-week-4-sorc-overload-no-banner-no-status-knife-0bi8MNJ
No Overload, Banner + Status Knife 171k - https://imgur.com/gallery/u50-pts-week-4-sorc-no-overload-banner-status-knife-NOcqph6
Edited by pluvioisaplanet on May 9, 2026 8:59PM3 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »ItsNotLiving wrote: »Nightblade vs. Sorcerer beef has been going on since 2014 lol. Except now nobody complains about Shields or Cloak, its all about math and damage formulas barf.
Funny and true, but it feels really one sided if you ask me. I don't know why I even bother trying to fight for NB buffs when the same players that would benefit from it the most will never be happy and selfishly try to knock down every other class except their own. I mean come on, what even is this:Pinktraining wrote: »
Sorc should also be subject to a "battle spirit" mechanic, reducing the base chance of Static Reverberation in PvP to -10%!VinnyGambini wrote: »Every single Sorc passive should be HALVED in PvP!
Conservation of Energy - reduce effectiveness in PvP by HALF!
Font of Power - reduce spell dmg boost in PvP by HALF!
Calculated Defense - reduce shield size in PvP by HALF!
Sphere of Influence - reduce recovery in PvP by HALF!
And then on top of that reduce by 55% by battle spirit!
It's finally time to take care of this broken class in PvP!
i thought those were sarcastic tbh, guess not.
Sorc masteries for sure needs a toning down though, there isnt a single class mastery as impactful as CoE for pvp among any of the class masteries nor half as desirable and it synergizes way too well with Font for too much value. I dont want 90% of my time to be spent on sorc and dk with the rest on a pressure build with b4b on warden. Sure seems like thats how its gonna go though, they ought to at least cut the healing on CoE in half at this point for the health of the game ...
I wanna play on all classes, i want a meta where you can take necro for a spin and dont feel like you are torturing yourself. And yeah i wanna use corpseburster in pvp so i hope Zos changes their mind on not letting players test stuff in public Test server
CoE is a strong sustain passive but it’s only delivering on sustain, it doesn’t deliver any power to Sorcs.
Font, IMO, is one of the stronger ones but it requires a “Sorcerer” ability to proc. Sorc doesn’t have a reliable spammable and the (on average) 20% bump to W/S is scaling off base stats, it’s not stacking with many of the other bumps to W/S so while it is strong it’s not OP strong in the context of current power creep, especially in PvP.
On paper these passives look strong but there’s very real tradeoffs here to using them.
We can’t advocate for nerfs to Sorc passives just to make things more playable for other classes. The point with Sorc passives is to elevate Sorc to Subclass & DK levels of power. While I think they definitely fall short on the power delivery at least the sustain gives a Sorc more opportunity to use what they do have.
If you want to play certain classes a certain way then the right thing to do is advocate for their passives to be stronger or deliver more synergy with the class right now; not chuck Sorcs.
You are grasping at straws now, keeping font up is hard? really? When was the last time you had to even worry about keeping it active? And CoE is only about sustain? What do you mean only sustain, its the strongest heal over time in the game by far and what do you mean ''only'' sustain like the amount of sustain we are getting is somehow unimportant, this passive is so good that if you put all the sustain passives of other classes together im not sure if they would top them thats how much sustain we are getting.
Obviously we can and should adjust the overperforming classes so that they arent the overwhelmingly most effective way to play. I dont want you to misunderstand, im not advocating for a sorc nerf, im advocating for a diverse meta. Sorc is one of my favorite classes, probably one of my most played classes, but again, i want to be able to play arcanist, templar, necro and not feel like im gimping myself. Currently sorc and dk are just that ahead and we all know it.
If class masteries goes live like they are curerntly, we'll be sick of the game in one month tops.
It’s not that keeping Font up is hard, it’s that keeping Font up requires one to slot Sorc skills into continuous rotation and given how poor Sorc skills are overall that’s a lot to ask for, especially a Mag based Sorc.
Remember, the tradeoff to this passive is Sorc only skills so if a subclassed Sorc is out here being competitive with skills that deliver more power or buff / debuff utility than what’s in the Sorc lineup they have to give that up for Font.
Sorc skills are notoriously some of the worst when it comes to long and clunky animations or the mechanism of how they deal damage so, no, it’s not that it’s hard it’s that it’s not optimal. Spamming Crushing Shock, for example, won’t proc Font.
As for CoE, it expands the proc to Blood Magics passive heal which really only works to bring Sorc in line (capability wise) with other classes. To say CoE or Blood Magic is the strongest HoT in the game is blatantly false. For starters, Vigor is a stronger HoT but even that aside skills like Puncturing Sweep, Swallow Soul, Sap Essence, Burning Embers, Hungry Scythe .. all of these skills provide an additional passive heal component on top of dealing damage and are spammable. Sorc is one of the few classes that doesn’t have a way to passively heal while dealing damage at the same time, which is why CoE is needed for Sorc.
Yes, Sorcs do have some of the stronger self heals in the game but one of them carries the “slotting a pet penalty” and the others require a full GCD to execute an independent skill. Being able to combine healing + damage output changes rotations and combat potential by a lot and Sorcs can’t do it.
If those other skills weren’t in the game or even if they weren’t so common across the classes or even if those skills didn’t scale their healing to comparable values as CoE then you’d have a point but none of those things are true.
And yes, CoE does deliver on that high sustain but CoE isn’t delivering on the raw power subclasses have.
You have to look at the highest potential achievable values in PvP and that’s your benchmark, that’s the goal post here. Anything less than that and you’re not enabling Sorcs to be competitive. The same goes for the passives in every class. They have to be as strong as the meta if they’re going to counter the meta.
And speaking of meats, I’m very much anti-meta. I don’t agree with or believe that any MMO should have a meta, and there’s absolutely a solid way to do it but we all know the Devs wouldn’t even entertain it.
If you want to play other classes and not feel like you’re “gimping yourself”, I agree with that, I don’t think you should feel that way either, but I’m also going to say that you’re best bet is to advocate that those classes get stronger mastery passives or ones align really well with the class skills because I’m measuring Sorc based on the top tier current subclass meta. I know what sort of power those builds bring, a lot of us do, and it’s not just raw power it’s mechanical variety and the combination of both of those are huge. If these passives don’t slap then the subclassed builds will continue to dominate everyone in PvP.
For reference I’m running Storm Calling + Aedric Spear + Herald of the Tome (not for Fatecarver) for my PvP build and even with these passives it’s a tall order for me to give up those two skill lines plus the passives they’re giving to slot the Sorc passives. .. think about that, I’m having to give up the potential variety of 10 whole skills and 8 passives for weaker skills and only 2 mastery passives. Burning light deals more damage than Static and I currently have no sustain issue so Font is really the only tempt here, and even that’s a maybe because my W/S damage is pretty high as is so to lose the potential I get from those two subclassed skill lines & their passives the benefit from Sorc needs to be REALLY strong. .. And also remember, not everyone is Stam Sorc, some of us have put in A LOT of work to make a Mag Sorc viable at all in PvP because the class is so weak. The passives are needed.
I'm not even going to entertain a discussion that font is hard to keep active or CoE is anything other than extremely strong. It was funny the first few times but no, there is no discussion to be had, you are plainly wrong
Again, I didn’t say it was hard, I said it’s not optimal because players have to slot Sorc skills. It seems you didn’t even read what was written.
None of us here have seen any evidence or clear comparison examples of where Sorc skills are strong or out perform. In fact a number of forum contributors I recognize as experienced veterans from other PvP specific threads are also in here saying the same thing about Sorcs underperformance.
If anyone wants to entertain the idea that Sorcs are strong (as a class) then we would need to see proof of that. Not staged dummy parses that don’t reflect real world gameplay or PvP combat, but rather, actual PvP results or comparing and contrasting parses between classes that are slotting realistic skills & comparable skills and using realistic rotations, not slotting skills for the purposes of rigging high parse numbers that one wouldn’t typically slot in real PvP or PvE scenarios.
We’re seeing parses now where other classes match or outshine Sorc and that’s not taking into account subclassed power vs Pure Sorc.
There’s a lot of context in ESO combat nowadays, like it or not. In order to be fair we need to be objective and comprehensive. The Devs scan these threads for feedback and I’m trying to make sure that anytime I leave a point on here I’m leaving clear supporting examples or how I’m approaching PTS testing outside of just a parse number.
I’ve tested these passives as well and I didn’t find them to deliver any more value than what can be had from other sources. What you feel is “too strong” in terms of these passives I’m saying already exist in the game and I’ve given clear examples of where.2 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭
For reference I’m running Storm Calling + Aedric Spear + Herald of the Tome (not for Fatecarver) for my PvP build and even with these passives it’s a tall order for me to give up those two skill lines plus the passives they’re giving to slot the Sorc passives. .. think about that, I’m having to give up the potential variety of 10 whole skills and 8 passives for weaker skills and only 2 mastery passives. Burning light deals more damage than Static and I currently have no sustain issue so Font is really the only tempt here, and even that’s a maybe because my W/S damage is pretty high as is so to lose the potential I get from those two subclassed skill lines & their passives the benefit from Sorc needs to be REALLY strong. .. And also remember, not everyone is Stam Sorc, some of us have put in A LOT of work to make a Mag Sorc viable at all in PvP because the class is so weak. The passives are needed.
Imagine trading a meager 20% spell damage and the fixing of an underpowered talent and skill line for 24% crit damage, extra penetration (which % damage wise already takes a good chunk out of that 20% spell damage by itself) base spell damage and status damage as well as damage buffs from skills.
Really, nothing of that laughable Font of Power remains when you put those subclass talents next to it. I really don't understand how anyone can put these things beside one another and think this is somehow fair and that Font doesn't need a considerable buff. WHICH goes for many other underpowered classes damage masteries too.
Obviously a class that already has 12% crit damage and various damage done talents in its tree doesn't receive the same amount of spell damage from a mastery. People foolishly compare class masteries between one another without considering why one class gets more than another. For 1 pure class, 800 spell damage barely does a thing, while for another, 600 spell damage is all they really need. Some classes need more help passive wise than others.
Exactly! What people seem to forget or don’t think about is just how much subclassing can deliver.
Class skill damage scaling plays a factor which makes the prospect of W/S inconsistent among the class skills, and that’s before we factor in the mechanics of how those skills function.
We’ve talked about how Bound Armaments underperforms versus its similar NB skill Merciless. BA’s max potential doesn’t scale as high or hit in a single burst so a Sorc would need more W/S damage than a NB would for an equitable output.
Then there’s skills like Curse vs Fissure. Both scale high, both have double procs, both can be cleansed; but Curse is limited to one instance whereas Shalks can be spammed and rotated to hit multiple targets in a wider area than Curse will affect, plus Shalks delivers massive debuffs while Curse doesn’t. … How much in extra W/S do we think Sorc would need to make up for the mechanical differences between those two skills?
It’s not just about numbers, it’s numbers, it’s mechanics, and it’s opportunity cost. It’s hard for me to justify giving up my subclasses build when testing both my build versus the pure Sorc with the passives I get better results on the subclass.
And that doesn’t surprise me because I get so much flexibility with subclassing; I can swap Streak for Javelin for an unblockable stun with far better follow up potential than Streak. I can use Toppling Charge to close gap or get out of an area and also get Major Protection in the process, even if it is blockable. I can slot Tentacular Dread for softer CC but increase in damage. I can slot exrra damaging skills like Runeblades or Puncturing Sweep that deal far more reliable DPS than any skill in the Sorc lineup and these are spammable. .. I can fine tune the mechanics of my build based on the PvP scenario I’m gettting into; all while maintaining the same levels of power as these mastery passives bring .. To me, that’s a no brainer. Unless these Sorc passives deliver on hard hitting power that sees my numbers scaling into meta territory then they’re going to fall short.Edited by NxJoeyD on May 10, 2026 2:26AM2 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭@NxJoeyD Sorc definitely is not as bad as you make it to be
No, it absolutely is. The Devs relegated Sorc down to such a limited scope, if you’re Mag based the main viable option for you is heavy attack and for many that’s boring. It’s fine that it’s an option but it shouldn’t be the “go-to” play style for the class.
Then there’s Stam Sorc which was clearly an afterthought but is by far the better spec for Sorc.
Even with that, the class skills are not good. Yes “a Sorc” can be good and competitive but not with our own class skills and that’s the problem. Basically every other class can build a solid load out on primarily class skill and maybe supplement with world / weapon skills but we’re the opposite.
Sorcs are too defense & utility heavy to be effective and even those skills are redundant, skills like Rune Cage & Daedric Refuge are redundant and don’t deliver damage in a good mechanical way, while other morphs of these skills plus skills like Lightning Flood are easily avoided. Skills like Frags are too slow with their cast time and even though Weapon is arguably the better morph the second attack buff is too low of a scale and overall seeing the skill need to be recast too frequently to keep up any DPS or bust.
Power Overload is a good skill but that’s an Ulti and while it’s good it’s not necessarily a go-to spammable and needs to be built around, which is less flexible than other class Ults and I really only see about half the Sorcs run it; with many just using a Subclassed Ult or running Dawnbreaker or Comet.
Hurricane is a good for Resolve but even then Chudan is an option considering Hurricane doesn’t deal that much damage, the skill slot could be better used for another buff or a stronger burst. Streak is a descent “get-out-of-dodge” skill but with all of the additional mobility & subclassing that’s less of a value than it used to be.
Even our class IA sets are some of the weakest as is our Class scribing script.
All classes have skills that are arguably weaker, it’s not just Sorc, So, sure, “being” a Sorc may not be as bad but the “Sorc skills” sure are; we have more weaker ones than other classes. Slotting heavily outside of our class doesn’t make our class good it makes us good as players, there’s a difference.Edited by NxJoeyD on May 10, 2026 5:08AM2 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭@NxJoeyD Sorc definitely is not as bad as you make it to be
No, it absolutely is. The Devs relegated Sorc down to such a limited scope, if you’re Mag based the main viable option for you is heavy attack and for many that’s boring. It’s fine that it’s an option but it shouldn’t be the “go-to” play style for the class.
Then there’s Stam Sorc which was clearly an afterthought but is by far the better spec for Sorc.
Even with that, the class skills are not good. Yes “a Sorc” can be good and competitive but not with our own class skills and that’s the problem. Basically every other class can build a solid load out on primarily class skill and maybe supplement with world / weapon skills but we’re the opposite.
Sorcs are too defense & utility heavy to be effective and even those skills are redundant, skills like Rune Cage & Daedric Refuge are redundant and don’t deliver damage in a good mechanical way, while other morphs of these skills plus skills like Lightning Flood are easily avoided. Skills like Frags are too slow with their cast time and even though Weapon is arguably the better morph the second attack buff is too low of a scale and overall seeing the skill need to be recast too frequently to keep up any DPS or bust.
Power Overload is a good skill but that’s an Ulti and while it’s good it’s not necessarily a go-to spammable and needs to be built around, which is less flexible than other class Ults and I really only see about half the Sorcs run it; with many just using a Subclassed Ult or running Dawnbreaker or Comet.
Hurricane is a good for Resolve but even then Chudan is an option considering Hurricane doesn’t deal that much damage, the skill slot could be better used for another buff or a stronger burst. Streak is a descent “get-out-of-dodge” skill but with all of the additional mobility & subclassing that’s less of a value than it used to be.
Even our class IA sets are some of the weakest as is our Class scribing script.
All classes have skills that are arguably weaker, it’s not just Sorc, So, sure, “being” a Sorc may not be as bad but the “Sorc skills” sure are; we have more weaker ones than other classes. Slotting heavily outside of our class doesn’t make our class good it makes us good as players, there’s a difference.
I have so many clips to prove you wrong but I don’t think that will change your mind either1 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭@NxJoeyD Sorc definitely is not as bad as you make it to be
No, it absolutely is. The Devs relegated Sorc down to such a limited scope, if you’re Mag based the main viable option for you is heavy attack and for many that’s boring. It’s fine that it’s an option but it shouldn’t be the “go-to” play style for the class.
Then there’s Stam Sorc which was clearly an afterthought but is by far the better spec for Sorc.
Even with that, the class skills are not good. Yes “a Sorc” can be good and competitive but not with our own class skills and that’s the problem. Basically every other class can build a solid load out on primarily class skill and maybe supplement with world / weapon skills but we’re the opposite.
Sorcs are too defense & utility heavy to be effective and even those skills are redundant, skills like Rune Cage & Daedric Refuge are redundant and don’t deliver damage in a good mechanical way, while other morphs of these skills plus skills like Lightning Flood are easily avoided. Skills like Frags are too slow with their cast time and even though Weapon is arguably the better morph the second attack buff is too low of a scale and overall seeing the skill need to be recast too frequently to keep up any DPS or bust.
Power Overload is a good skill but that’s an Ulti and while it’s good it’s not necessarily a go-to spammable and needs to be built around, which is less flexible than other class Ults and I really only see about half the Sorcs run it; with many just using a Subclassed Ult or running Dawnbreaker or Comet.
Hurricane is a good for Resolve but even then Chudan is an option considering Hurricane doesn’t deal that much damage, the skill slot could be better used for another buff or a stronger burst. Streak is a descent “get-out-of-dodge” skill but with all of the additional mobility & subclassing that’s less of a value than it used to be.
Even our class IA sets are some of the weakest as is our Class scribing script.
All classes have skills that are arguably weaker, it’s not just Sorc, So, sure, “being” a Sorc may not be as bad but the “Sorc skills” sure are; we have more weaker ones than other classes. Slotting heavily outside of our class doesn’t make our class good it makes us good as players, there’s a difference.
I have so many clips to prove you wrong but I don’t think that will change your mind either
It’s not about clips, clips don’t show context. I’m not saying you aren’t a solid player what I’m saying is that Sorc skills aren’t competitive when compared to practically every other class in the game.
When we compare, mechanically & mathematically there’s no Sorc skill that doesn’t have a bigger flaw or lack of power when compared to other classes.
The exception I’ll grant to that is Ward, but that’s totally a defensive skill. As I’ve said before, I think Overload is ok but even that’s not broadly useful for Sorcs and it’s not the heavy bursts other class Ults bring.
For every skill besides Ward Sorcs have there’s a similar skill in another class that delivers more, either in terms of raw power or passive benefit.
If you’d like to give an example of a Sorc skill (besides Ward) that’s at or above the skills available in other classes I’m all ears; but in all fairness that’s a tough one to answer because it’s really easy to find a skill that’s does a similar thing to a Sorc skill that brings more to the table.
It’s no wonder why the top 4 subclassed skill lines belong to Nightblade, Templar, Warden, & DK; with Sorc coming in 5th and that’s really only for Resolve for players who don’t want to run Chudan but even then, they’re not slotting Wrath or Flood. They might slot Crit Surge, but, to be fair, Wardens Netch is a much better option for Maj B/S than Crit Surge.
If Sorc skills are so strong why does seemingly nobody want them?Edited by NxJoeyD on May 10, 2026 6:20AM3 -
Savagejack✭✭✭I hope Sorcerer gets a cool rework. These are my pain points:
1. Encase. 1 morph is low dmg, and the other is prohibitively expensive.
2. Rune Cage. Slow, avoidable and bad.
3. Dark Exchange. The cast time sucks.
4. Daedric Mines. Functionally awful.
5. Storm Atro. He's cool but I'd like if he followed you around and zapped fools.
6. Pets. They're restricting as 2 bar, and they die in any meaningful fight. It'd be nice if they functioned like necro summons.
7. Curse. It doesn't scale with our shock passive.
8. Conjured Ward. You'd think it would cost or scale with whatever max resource to make it truly hybrid.
9. Mage's Fury. Awful conditions and isn't a scaling execute.
10. Bound Armaments. It functions like a channel and is inherently slow. Maybe if the knives whirled around targets for aoe, that'd be dope.3 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭It’s not about clips, clips don’t show context.
Yes, they do, to an extent. They show an individual's mechanics.I’m not saying you aren’t a solid player what I’m saying is that Sorc skills aren’t competitive when compared to practically every other class in the game.
When we compare, mechanically & mathematically there’s no Sorc skill that doesn’t have a bigger flaw or lack of power when compared to other classes.
That is false. Storm Calling is an extremely overloaded skill line that is currently used by any builds needing damage + utility + defense. Individually, Hurricane, Crit Surge, Streak, and Overload are all very strong abilities.
Dark Magic and Summoning are slightly less meta for PvP, as the skills are currently either lacking in active effects or misplaced, but that doesn't mean they are inherently weak. When you compare these 2 lines to the meta ones, you're obviously going to see the drawbacks. This isn't the case at all when you compare them to even less useful skill lines like Shadow, Siphoning, Living Death, etc. Dark Magic and Summoning are clearly better in that regard.
Personally, I think Dark Magic and Summoning hover around A-/A tier.The exception I’ll grant to that is Ward, but that’s totally a defensive skill.
That "exception" created a dominant class for nearly a year. In fact, Sorc only got 2 changes during that PTS cycle (Ward heal buff and 10% extra max mag), yet it was able to completely outshine everything else in the game. That goes to show how very minor buffs can inadvertently elevate a class to a much higher status.For every skill besides Ward Sorcs have there’s a similar skill in another class that delivers more, either in terms of raw power or passive benefit.
No, this is completely false. Storm Calling is so loaded that it's hard to find anything else matching it in terms of raw damage and utility.If you’d like to give an example of a Sorc skill (besides Ward) that’s at or above the skills available in other classes I’m all ears; but in all fairness that’s a tough one to answer because it’s really easy to find a skill that’s does a similar thing to a Sorc skill that brings more to the table.
Storm CallingIt’s no wonder why the top 4 subclassed skill lines belong to Nightblade, Templar, Warden, & DK; with Sorc coming in 5th and that’s really only for Resolve for players who don’t want to run Chudan but even then, they’re not slotting Wrath or Flood. They might slot Crit Surge, but, to be fair, Wardens Netch is a much better option for Maj B/S than Crit Surge.
Storm Caling is an S tier skill lineIf Sorc skills are so strong why does seemingly nobody want them?
Storm Calling
I also hope you know that next patch, both stam and magsorc are going to be pretty meta. On PTS, my stamsorc can survive up to 8k DPS in an openworld build before having to make dedicated adjustments to survivability, while having stats rivaling or even beating subclassed builds (31k HP, 30k resists back bar, 3k crit resist, 33k stam, 6.9k WD, ~154% crit damage, 50% crit chance, max pen). The only people I'm dying to are good WWs and DKs running pure cheese duel builds. Everyone else has not been an issue whatsoever (including the status effect builds with Signet).
Edited by hoangdz on May 10, 2026 9:13AM1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@NxJoeyD Sorc definitely is not as bad as you make it to be
No, it absolutely is. The Devs relegated Sorc down to such a limited scope, if you’re Mag based the main viable option for you is heavy attack and for many that’s boring. It’s fine that it’s an option but it shouldn’t be the “go-to” play style for the class.
Then there’s Stam Sorc which was clearly an afterthought but is by far the better spec for Sorc.
Even with that, the class skills are not good. Yes “a Sorc” can be good and competitive but not with our own class skills and that’s the problem. Basically every other class can build a solid load out on primarily class skill and maybe supplement with world / weapon skills but we’re the opposite.
Sorcs are too defense & utility heavy to be effective and even those skills are redundant, skills like Rune Cage & Daedric Refuge are redundant and don’t deliver damage in a good mechanical way, while other morphs of these skills plus skills like Lightning Flood are easily avoided. Skills like Frags are too slow with their cast time and even though Weapon is arguably the better morph the second attack buff is too low of a scale and overall seeing the skill need to be recast too frequently to keep up any DPS or bust.
Power Overload is a good skill but that’s an Ulti and while it’s good it’s not necessarily a go-to spammable and needs to be built around, which is less flexible than other class Ults and I really only see about half the Sorcs run it; with many just using a Subclassed Ult or running Dawnbreaker or Comet.
Hurricane is a good for Resolve but even then Chudan is an option considering Hurricane doesn’t deal that much damage, the skill slot could be better used for another buff or a stronger burst. Streak is a descent “get-out-of-dodge” skill but with all of the additional mobility & subclassing that’s less of a value than it used to be.
Even our class IA sets are some of the weakest as is our Class scribing script.
All classes have skills that are arguably weaker, it’s not just Sorc, So, sure, “being” a Sorc may not be as bad but the “Sorc skills” sure are; we have more weaker ones than other classes. Slotting heavily outside of our class doesn’t make our class good it makes us good as players, there’s a difference.
I have so many clips to prove you wrong but I don’t think that will change your mind either
It’s not about clips, clips don’t show context. I’m not saying you aren’t a solid player what I’m saying is that Sorc skills aren’t competitive when compared to practically every other class in the game.
When we compare, mechanically & mathematically there’s no Sorc skill that doesn’t have a bigger flaw or lack of power when compared to other classes.
The exception I’ll grant to that is Ward, but that’s totally a defensive skill. As I’ve said before, I think Overload is ok but even that’s not broadly useful for Sorcs and it’s not the heavy bursts other class Ults bring.
For every skill besides Ward Sorcs have there’s a similar skill in another class that delivers more, either in terms of raw power or passive benefit.
If you’d like to give an example of a Sorc skill (besides Ward) that’s at or above the skills available in other classes I’m all ears; but in all fairness that’s a tough one to answer because it’s really easy to find a skill that’s does a similar thing to a Sorc skill that brings more to the table.
It’s no wonder why the top 4 subclassed skill lines belong to Nightblade, Templar, Warden, & DK; with Sorc coming in 5th and that’s really only for Resolve for players who don’t want to run Chudan but even then, they’re not slotting Wrath or Flood. They might slot Crit Surge, but, to be fair, Wardens Netch is a much better option for Maj B/S than Crit Surge.
If Sorc skills are so strong why does seemingly nobody want them?
Much of the confusion and disagreement also comes from what Sorc we are talking about.
Stamina focused melee Sorcs with procs are strong and that's it. That is a very specific playstyle aimed at abusing any cross mechanic available, and it's in my opinion dull, not at all thematic, and has not much of Sorcerer left.
And yet this is precisely what people reference when speaking about Sorc.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.3 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@NxJoeyD Sorc definitely is not as bad as you make it to be
No, it absolutely is. The Devs relegated Sorc down to such a limited scope, if you’re Mag based the main viable option for you is heavy attack and for many that’s boring. It’s fine that it’s an option but it shouldn’t be the “go-to” play style for the class.
Then there’s Stam Sorc which was clearly an afterthought but is by far the better spec for Sorc.
Even with that, the class skills are not good. Yes “a Sorc” can be good and competitive but not with our own class skills and that’s the problem. Basically every other class can build a solid load out on primarily class skill and maybe supplement with world / weapon skills but we’re the opposite.
Sorcs are too defense & utility heavy to be effective and even those skills are redundant, skills like Rune Cage & Daedric Refuge are redundant and don’t deliver damage in a good mechanical way, while other morphs of these skills plus skills like Lightning Flood are easily avoided. Skills like Frags are too slow with their cast time and even though Weapon is arguably the better morph the second attack buff is too low of a scale and overall seeing the skill need to be recast too frequently to keep up any DPS or bust.
Power Overload is a good skill but that’s an Ulti and while it’s good it’s not necessarily a go-to spammable and needs to be built around, which is less flexible than other class Ults and I really only see about half the Sorcs run it; with many just using a Subclassed Ult or running Dawnbreaker or Comet.
Hurricane is a good for Resolve but even then Chudan is an option considering Hurricane doesn’t deal that much damage, the skill slot could be better used for another buff or a stronger burst. Streak is a descent “get-out-of-dodge” skill but with all of the additional mobility & subclassing that’s less of a value than it used to be.
Even our class IA sets are some of the weakest as is our Class scribing script.
All classes have skills that are arguably weaker, it’s not just Sorc, So, sure, “being” a Sorc may not be as bad but the “Sorc skills” sure are; we have more weaker ones than other classes. Slotting heavily outside of our class doesn’t make our class good it makes us good as players, there’s a difference.
I have so many clips to prove you wrong but I don’t think that will change your mind either
It’s not about clips, clips don’t show context. I’m not saying you aren’t a solid player what I’m saying is that Sorc skills aren’t competitive when compared to practically every other class in the game.
When we compare, mechanically & mathematically there’s no Sorc skill that doesn’t have a bigger flaw or lack of power when compared to other classes.
The exception I’ll grant to that is Ward, but that’s totally a defensive skill. As I’ve said before, I think Overload is ok but even that’s not broadly useful for Sorcs and it’s not the heavy bursts other class Ults bring.
For every skill besides Ward Sorcs have there’s a similar skill in another class that delivers more, either in terms of raw power or passive benefit.
If you’d like to give an example of a Sorc skill (besides Ward) that’s at or above the skills available in other classes I’m all ears; but in all fairness that’s a tough one to answer because it’s really easy to find a skill that’s does a similar thing to a Sorc skill that brings more to the table.
It’s no wonder why the top 4 subclassed skill lines belong to Nightblade, Templar, Warden, & DK; with Sorc coming in 5th and that’s really only for Resolve for players who don’t want to run Chudan but even then, they’re not slotting Wrath or Flood. They might slot Crit Surge, but, to be fair, Wardens Netch is a much better option for Maj B/S than Crit Surge.
If Sorc skills are so strong why does seemingly nobody want them?
Much of the confusion and disagreement also comes from what Sorc we are talking about.
Stamina focused melee Sorcs with procs are strong and that's it. That is a very specific playstyle aimed at abusing any cross mechanic available, and it's in my opinion dull, not at all thematic, and has not much of Sorcerer left.
And yet this is precisely what people reference when speaking about Sorc.
To be fair it's the same for nightblade and Assassination subclassing. That's why these class refreshes can't come fast enough. On dk you have 2 out 3 excellent skill lines with earthen heart not that far behind.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@NxJoeyD Sorc definitely is not as bad as you make it to be
No, it absolutely is. The Devs relegated Sorc down to such a limited scope, if you’re Mag based the main viable option for you is heavy attack and for many that’s boring. It’s fine that it’s an option but it shouldn’t be the “go-to” play style for the class.
Then there’s Stam Sorc which was clearly an afterthought but is by far the better spec for Sorc.
Even with that, the class skills are not good. Yes “a Sorc” can be good and competitive but not with our own class skills and that’s the problem. Basically every other class can build a solid load out on primarily class skill and maybe supplement with world / weapon skills but we’re the opposite.
Sorcs are too defense & utility heavy to be effective and even those skills are redundant, skills like Rune Cage & Daedric Refuge are redundant and don’t deliver damage in a good mechanical way, while other morphs of these skills plus skills like Lightning Flood are easily avoided. Skills like Frags are too slow with their cast time and even though Weapon is arguably the better morph the second attack buff is too low of a scale and overall seeing the skill need to be recast too frequently to keep up any DPS or bust.
Power Overload is a good skill but that’s an Ulti and while it’s good it’s not necessarily a go-to spammable and needs to be built around, which is less flexible than other class Ults and I really only see about half the Sorcs run it; with many just using a Subclassed Ult or running Dawnbreaker or Comet.
Hurricane is a good for Resolve but even then Chudan is an option considering Hurricane doesn’t deal that much damage, the skill slot could be better used for another buff or a stronger burst. Streak is a descent “get-out-of-dodge” skill but with all of the additional mobility & subclassing that’s less of a value than it used to be.
Even our class IA sets are some of the weakest as is our Class scribing script.
All classes have skills that are arguably weaker, it’s not just Sorc, So, sure, “being” a Sorc may not be as bad but the “Sorc skills” sure are; we have more weaker ones than other classes. Slotting heavily outside of our class doesn’t make our class good it makes us good as players, there’s a difference.
I have so many clips to prove you wrong but I don’t think that will change your mind either
It’s not about clips, clips don’t show context. I’m not saying you aren’t a solid player what I’m saying is that Sorc skills aren’t competitive when compared to practically every other class in the game.
When we compare, mechanically & mathematically there’s no Sorc skill that doesn’t have a bigger flaw or lack of power when compared to other classes.
The exception I’ll grant to that is Ward, but that’s totally a defensive skill. As I’ve said before, I think Overload is ok but even that’s not broadly useful for Sorcs and it’s not the heavy bursts other class Ults bring.
For every skill besides Ward Sorcs have there’s a similar skill in another class that delivers more, either in terms of raw power or passive benefit.
If you’d like to give an example of a Sorc skill (besides Ward) that’s at or above the skills available in other classes I’m all ears; but in all fairness that’s a tough one to answer because it’s really easy to find a skill that’s does a similar thing to a Sorc skill that brings more to the table.
It’s no wonder why the top 4 subclassed skill lines belong to Nightblade, Templar, Warden, & DK; with Sorc coming in 5th and that’s really only for Resolve for players who don’t want to run Chudan but even then, they’re not slotting Wrath or Flood. They might slot Crit Surge, but, to be fair, Wardens Netch is a much better option for Maj B/S than Crit Surge.
If Sorc skills are so strong why does seemingly nobody want them?
Much of the confusion and disagreement also comes from what Sorc we are talking about.
Stamina focused melee Sorcs with procs are strong and that's it. That is a very specific playstyle aimed at abusing any cross mechanic available, and it's in my opinion dull, not at all thematic, and has not much of Sorcerer left.
And yet this is precisely what people reference when speaking about Sorc.
To be fair it's the same for nightblade and Assassination subclassing. That's why these class refreshes can't come fast enough. On dk you have 2 out 3 excellent skill lines with earthen heart not that far behind.
Indeed. 2 skilines of a class considered useless and weak is not at all an agreeable state of affairs, and I think it is too much to ask of people to wait for a year or two to see it resolved.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭✭Yes, they do, to an extent. They show an individual's mechanics.
Yes and no. Not all mechanics are visual. Self buffs are often invisible to the opponent so seeing a one sided clip doesn't give us full context unless the full build kit of the opponent is known. Further, we don't always know the skill factor of the opponent. CP level isn't necessarily reflective of skill so clips leave out a lot of material context.That is false. Storm Calling is an extremely overloaded skill line that is currently used by any builds needing damage + utility + defense. Individually, Hurricane, Crit Surge, Streak, and Overload are all very strong abilities.
Not even close. Storm Calling is the most beneficial skill line for Sorcs but far from overloaded.
Overload: It's an Ult and while I do think it's the best skill in the entire Sorc kit it's not a single burst and doesn't provide any significant buff or debuff component. Further, it synergizes more with ranged DPS which are Mag based builds and the weaker of the paths for Sorcs. A Stam Sorc could run Overload but it wouldn't be optimal for them.
Mages Wrath/Fury: The nerf to 2 seconds cut the legs off this skill and made it nearly useless. The animation time is WAY too slow, excessively slow which makes the skill easily and completely avoidable. This is the weakest of the execute skills because it's so slow. Example of a stronger skill: Impale, is actually scaleable to higher values rather than being fixed and performs it's function quickly.
Light Form / Hurricane: This skill is really only good for Resolve and anyone will tell you that's the main reason anyone slots the skill. The DPS on either morph is too low to write home about. Those numbers are not "powerful" and are insanely easy to mitigate through in PvP. Now, IMO, if there's a player that needs a source of Resolve there's better sources than Hurricane, the same goes for Expedition. If one is in need of Resolve Earthen Heart can not only provide access to that buff via Shatterspike but also offers Major Brutality & Sorcery (plus passive damage) through Molten as well as access to Fossilize. So while Storm Calling has access to Resolve and a Stun skill, Earthen Heart has access to those but with mechanics that deliver more damage and utility than Storm Calling. Example of a stronger skill: Shatterspike Mantle, provides resolve, does more damage, also provides 100 W/S damage and also synergizes with Landslide for additional damage.
Lightning Splash: The DPS factor on this skill is low, just really low. The only power prospect comes from the synergy but the problem with that is that the synergy only affects the immediate area around the individual proccing the synergy, NOT the entire AoE. This is incredibly limiting and goes to mechanics. If the synergy damage affected the entire skills AoE then there'd be a better use case. As it is, any ground based AoE DoT is going to be limited, in both PvE and PvP but especially in PvP because nobody experienced is going to "stand in the stupid". When you have a class like Sorc where a good number of their abilities requires the target to "stand in stupid" in order to deal damage then that class is going to under perform because nobody is going to do that. Example of a stronger skill: Fulminating Rune, the skill deals and equitable DPS over a longer duration plus provides a smaller AoE burst as well as the opportunity for 3x synergies, all dealing the same high burst of damage.
Crit Surge: Again, this is another weak skill. The reason it's weak is because, in the scope of "pure Sorc" the Sorcerer class isn't an inherent "crit" class like, Nightblade, for example. The only Crit passive Sorc has is Exploitation which only provides Minor Prophecy and even that requires a Dark Magic cast to proc. This means that Sorcs, as a pure-class, don't have the crit based kit to see Crit Surge proccing with any consistency unless the Sorc equips literally nothing but crit based gear and even then. But what really makes Crit Surge fall short is that the heal is a fixed based value and doesn't scale. Regardless of your health pool, Mag pool, Stam pool, or W/S damage it's the same fixed value at rank IV no matter what. Even though the skill "can" proc up to once per second, doing so on a Pure-Sorc means putting so many "eggs into one basket" to increase crit chance that the build is going to be very vulnerable and the amount of the heal isn't enough to really offset that. Example of a Stronger skill: Igneous Weapons, Provides Major B/S, deals additional damage with each attack which doesn't require a crit to proc so not only does the caster receive the major buffs but they also get consistent passive damage.
Streak: This is probably the second best skill but, again, it's lost value prospect because of subclassing and all of the enhanced mobility that everyone has access to. Streak only has a range of 15m whereas other gap closing skills like Toppling Charge can reach 22m. Given the high degree of immunity that's available in PvP, plus the increase in mobility it means that Sorcs cannot use Streak to create a gap to refocus a fight. Just about any opponent is going to be able to immediately keep up and close gap with any number of available skills. Further, Streak carries a multi use penalty which other like-skill don't have putting Sorc at even more of a disadvantage. When we talk about using Streak as an offensive skill it falls shorter still. A Sorc using streak to stun has to turn around in order to follow up. Even with 3rd party camera speed add-ons this still sees the opponent breaking free before any real follow up can occur. Example of a stronger skill: Aurora Javelin, Deals more damage, is also unblockable, and has great follow up potential. Streak is also plagued with the "Streak bug" whereby at random times the skill will execute twice even when only procc'd once. This has been a known bug for ages and it occurs often.
Storm calling has very real limitations and those examples aren't the only ones in the game that are stronger because I chose skills that were directly similar in function to the Storm Calling skills, I didn't even take into account the opportunity cost of slotting the even stronger skill that exist in the game.Dark Magic and Summoning are slightly less meta for PvP, as the skills are currently either lacking in active effects or misplaced, but that doesn't mean they are inherently weak. When you compare these 2 lines to the meta ones, you're obviously going to see the drawbacks. This isn't the case at all when you compare them to even less useful skill lines like Shadow, Siphoning, Living Death, etc. Dark Magic and Summoning are clearly better in that regard.
Personally, I think Dark Magic and Summoning hover around A-/A tier.
I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks Dark Magic is an A tier skill line. Again, these aren't widely chosen skills. We don't see subclassed builds choosing Dark Magic, and why do we think that is? If they're A-Tier doesn't it stand to reason that we'd see more instances of them in PvP or in ESO logs?
Negate: For PvP this is too niche to even consider. Any ranged player can simply attack from outside of the AoE and any melee player can simply lean on light and heavy attacks to still deal major damage within the AoE. We don't hardly ever see this skill in PvP and for good reason.
Fragments: This goes without saying, the cast time. The cast time on Frags make it significantly weaker than every other class spammable in the game, especially when you consider that every other class spammable scales to equal or higher damage than Frags. Most players that slot Frags lean on world / weapon skills as a spam and only toss Frags on the bonus proc which still sees this as weaker because all of the other class spammables are readily useful. Example of a stronger skill: Goes without saying Surprise Attack / Concealed Weapon, either morph deals as much or more damage than Frags, is insta-cast, as well as delivers a buff or a guaranteed crit every 3 seconds which is more frequent than the bonus proc of Frags. Even Wardens Cliff Racer is a stronger skill providing a slightly lower initial hit but provides a 400 W/S damage buff seeing the subsequent attacks dealing significantly more damage than Frags plus enhancing all of the casters attacks.
*Crystal Weapon: This is also weak due to it's limited 6 second duration and significantly reduced 2nd attack buff. This sees the skill having to be recast far too often to keep uptime. Example of a stronger skill: Crushing Weapon, despite a 2 second duration the skill only buffs one attack, however, by more damage than Crystal Weapon and also apples Major Breach to the target. **Runner Up: Inspired Scholarship. Math-wise the max potential of Insp. Scholar comes out to about 9k to 10k less (in total) over the course of 30 seconds than Crystal Weapon, however, since Insp. Scholar is active for the full 30 seconds the caster is FAR more likely to realize every 3 second buff of Insp Scholar whereas in real combat the it's not realistic that the player is going to be able to hit every 6 second re-cast of Crystal Weapon. It's a case of "tortoise & the hare" although Crystal Weapon has a higher potential, in the real world Insp. Scholar often comes out ahead due to better mechanics.
Shattered Spines: This skill is seriously weak. Not only are there so many sources of immunity to immobilizations but here's the real killer, Spines only deals damage to enemies that were "encased". So if the player casts on anyone, PvE or PvP that has immunity they receive no damage. Example of a stronger skill: Tentacular Dread, is equally an immobility skill but scales to more damage than Spines and provides a full damage buff to targets hit by the skill, whether they were immobilized or not so even if the target was immune the player still had the opportunity to deal damage as well as receives the damage increase to them.
Vibrant Shroud: This one I'm mostly ok with. It's essentially the non-pet self heal and works fine. The heal factor is strong and the debuff to enemies in range is ok. I, personally, would like to see a better buff then Minor Vitality given that Ward has a health based hard cap but it doesn't kill the skill. Healing Contingency is still a stronger skill in this case because it delivers a stronger burst heal than Vibrant Shroud, plus you also get the Affix & Signature benefits as well as the Mages Guild passives; so even though Vibrant isn't bad, per se, it still falls short of scribing in terms of best to slot. Stronger buffs on Vibrant would make it a better prospect to consider.
Rune Prison: Again, weak. The weakness here comes down to the details in the mechanics. For Defensive Rune the delay in the stun makes the skill to clumsy. That delay opens the door for attackers to launch a status effect or CC of their own, thereby negating your stun on them. The pace of combat in ESO is quick and effective skills also need to be quick, not carrying delays for no real reason. The big downfall for Rune Cage is that it only deals damage IF the full duration of the stun completes so if the target breaks free they take no damage, that's a HUGE reason not to slot this skill. Given the mechanics of crowd control and subclassing anyone slotting a CC ability needs one that has a reliable damage component, this way, even if the target is immune the caster at least can rely on the damage. Example of a stronger skill: Take your pic, Aurora or Binding Javelin, Shattering Rocks all are ublockable stuns with better overall mechanics and damage components. *Runner up: Colorless Pool, this Fear + Stun CC cannot be blocked and while it doesn't deal damage it does apply two debuffs to the target and "Fear" has a known break free bug making the potential for the full 4 second stun likely.
Dark Exchange: This is a viable sustain for Stam Sorcs but not for Mag Sorcs, especially in PvP. A Mag Sorc cannot lean on sacrificing Stam for Mag in PvP and hope to survive, that's suicide. So this is a very very one sided sustain skill. Even with that the one second cast time is unnecessary.
Daedric Mines: Absolutely useless. Here is yet another effort at a crowd control skill that seemingly tries to tempt with damage scaling. The problem is that the first morph of this skill has such a significant animation time that it's 100% avoidable and requires the player to stand in stupid, which nobody would do. The second morph of this skill has a ridiculous cost and essentially confines the Sorc to the spot their standing in. Again, requires a target to stand in stupid but even a melee player wouldn't do this as melee range is farther than the area around the Sorc so they can attack and land damage from outside of the ground runes. Plus, those runes take 3 seconds to arm giving anyone who might be in range plenty of time to get out. These never work, especially in PvP.
This is not an A-Tier skill tree, and again, I provided skills that are similar in function as comparison but that still doesn't take into account the overall stronger skills out there one could sublcass in-lieu of any of these.That "exception" created a dominant class for nearly a year. In fact, Sorc only got 2 changes during that PTS cycle (Ward heal buff and 10% extra max mag), yet it was able to completely outshine everything else in the game. That goes to show how very minor buffs can inadvertently elevate a class to a much higher status.
I wouldn't say created a "dominant class", more like a difficult to kill class and while that has a benefit, being difficult to kill doesn't make the class effective at damage dealing. At that time, yes, Ward was strong but that was also pre-subclassing. In the post-subclassing game state everything is different and what was strong before, isn't necessarily strong now.
When Ward was strong nobody could subclass which meant breaking such a strong shield took more effort. The power creep subclassing brought enabled those builds to one shot even a strong Ward easily.No, this is completely false. Storm Calling is so loaded that it's hard to find anything else matching it in terms of raw damage and utility.
See above, I found a skill to match and beat every Storm Calling skill in terms of both damage & utility, and gave specifics, exactly how and why those skills out perform, not just because I think so.Storm Caling is an S tier skill line
I'd say it's far from it. I'd give Storm Calling a "B" tier skill line and that's due to the specific examples listed above of other skill that deliver either more power, more passive benefit, or both. Again, not just because I think so but because there are measurable ways that Sorc skills don't deliver in the powerful ways many other class skills do.If Sorc skills are so strong why does seemingly nobody want them?
Storm Calling
Storm Calling isn't a first round draft pick for subclassing. I don't know where that's coming from. If we look at any number of broad sourced feedbacks that are recent we see Storm Calling falling since the DK refresh. Storm Calling used to be around the #4 choice for subclassed builds before the DK refresh now I'd say it's a sold #5, Hack the Minotaur whilst not a gospel for ESO is a common community reference rates Storm Calling as 7th.I also hope you know that next patch, both stam and magsorc are going to be pretty meta. On PTS, my stamsorc can survive up to 8k DPS in an openworld build before having to make dedicated adjustments to survivability, while having stats rivaling or even beating subclassed builds (31k HP, 30k resists back bar, 3k crit resist, 33k stam, 6.9k WD, ~154% crit damage, 50% crit chance, max pen). The only people I'm dying to are good WWs and DKs running pure cheese duel builds. Everyone else has not been an issue whatsoever (including the status effect builds with Signet).
I don't know about "meta" for Sorc, at least not for Mag Sorc running Pure Sorc and slotting Sorc skills. In order for Sorc skills to be "meta" they have to be faster and we need real sources of spammable burst, which we don't have. Many of the Sorcs out here being effective are doing so on the backs of world & weapon skills as their primaries. Any class can lean on Whirling Blades, Rapid Strikes, Vigor, Thrive, Dawnbreaker, Crushing Shock, Wall, Comet, etc .. none of those kills speak to Sorcs, themselves, being strong and just about every Sorc out there leans on one or more of those skills because our class just doesn't bring the power.
When we're in PvP and meta builds are spamming it's skills like Surprise, Deep Fissure, Merciless (to a degree), Toppling Charge, Northern Storm, Incap Strike, Flame Lash, Take Flight .. They're also running Netch and/or Falcon's, especially if they're slotting Fissure. .. Runner up skills are Blastbones, especially on meta bombers that are running Colossus + Vicious Death + RoA (yes that's still a thing). .. Way down past all of that is a sprinkling of Sorc skills that get chosen but sorc skills are not part of the meta at all. The meta is crit and Sorc doesn't deliver crit. The meta is also strong burst and Sorc doesn't bring that either, not like any of those skill I just mentioned.
I think Sorc will be stronger if and only if our passives don't get nerfed. My Mag Sorc can keep pace with the meta builds, I won't go so far as to say it's meta power because it's not, no Sorc is unless they're subclassed into it, which I'm not. I've got nearly 30k health, 28K resist, 3k Crit resist, my W/S damage will peak at 8.4k (I'm built for strong base damage), 35k Mag. I'm similar to you but Mag rather than Stam and I'll tell you I had to get creative to deal the kind of burst damage that I do and stack the number of damage instances I do and what I run is very much non-typical and a good chunk of my power isn't coming from the Sorc skill lines.
As for the status effect + signet, I agree with you 100%. I hear people complaining about that in PvP but, IMO, it's a non issue because what it takes to build Signet into dealing meaningful status effect damage is so restrictive it leaves those builds exposed to a good number of attacks and any experienced player will be able to counter that.Edited by NxJoeyD on May 10, 2026 12:19PM1