U50 Feedback Thread for Class Mastery

Pinktraining

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Exposing tedious mathematical arguments doesn't prove that Reverberation's current state is acceptable. In fact, it only makes people dislike Sorc and Reverberation more. Nobody likes having to calculate probabilities in the tense atmosphere of PvP. Reverberation either needs to be nerfed to a 5-second cooldown or have its damage nerfed by 50%, otherwise there's absolutely no reason to accept the current version of Reverberation into the live server.

Can NB mains who have absolutely zero clue about sorcerer stop commenting on sorcerers trying to get them deleted from the game.

It's been 10+ years already, enough is enough, stick to your own class and let others have a chance to have fun playing their class.

What does this have to do with "Nightblade players"? Don't "Nightblade players" have the right to comment on balance? Or do you not want the game to be balanced so you can continue to dominate with Sorc?

Even more absurd is that some people actually think Pressure Points are better than Expert Mage. How can 2.5% Critical Chance be better than 108 Weapon Damage? Don't forget that in PvP, all experienced players have very high Critical Resistance; 2.5% Critical Chance is practically useless! Even in PvE, 108 Weapon Damage is better because Sorc can recover more health using Surge and Blood Magic!

You're playing the wrong game man. The past year with subclassing NB's Assassination line has dominated the meta including other crit related skill lines to stack Crit Damage to ridiculous levels with delayed burst.

Every build needs a Major Resolve skill, so you have 7 options, the most obvious come down to Restoring Light and Storm Calling. Rune Focus is great, but if you don't need the sustain and prefer offense, Storm Calling is much more advantageous due to having well balanced passives and the best mobility skill in the game. Just so happens that during this crit meta, players are picking up Assassination and Animal Companions, both of which have Crit Damage, and you also need a Major Brutality/Sustain skill, to which Betty works well for. This pushes out the great Restoring Light line in favour of Storm Calling.

No one is picking up Storm Calling strictly for their 108 w/s damage, and not a single person is touching Dark Magic and Daedric Summoning the same way no one is touching Shadow or Siphoning. So what exactly is your point? Assassination has some of, if not the best passives and abilities in the game, why would you even begin to compare these in a vaccum like that?

Is it PVE? Crit chance is also meta there, Assassination, and Herald of the Tome are the top picks on every build, but it's hard to take you seriously when you're the same person that said Sorc has the best cleave in the game because of Empower + Overload. We get it, you hate Sorc, cool. News flash, both NB and Sorc have similar problems of being prejudiced against for dealing too much single target DPS while ignoring the fact that they have more complex rotations, reliant on weaving, and no cleave. We're in the same boat.

This whole discussion started based on the notion that proc sets and status effects proc Static Reverb which is completely false. No one here is trying to knock NB down, in fact many of us commented on how underpowered the Masteries were.

Sorc has no shortage of AoE damage now. With class mastery, Sorc can deal considerable AoE damage through Conservation of Energy and Shattering Spines. Shattering Spines is undoubtedly Sorc's most powerful AoE spam, not to mention it also inflicts immobilize and Major Maim, effects that are extremely useful in both PvP and PvE.

Can we stop pretending Sorc is weak? Since U35, Sorc has undoubtedly been the strongest and most played class. The ubiquitous Lightning Staves heavy attacks are proof enough.

Turtle_Bot

Pinktraining wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Exposing tedious mathematical arguments doesn't prove that Reverberation's current state is acceptable. In fact, it only makes people dislike Sorc and Reverberation more. Nobody likes having to calculate probabilities in the tense atmosphere of PvP. Reverberation either needs to be nerfed to a 5-second cooldown or have its damage nerfed by 50%, otherwise there's absolutely no reason to accept the current version of Reverberation into the live server.

Can NB mains who have absolutely zero clue about sorcerer stop commenting on sorcerers trying to get them deleted from the game.

It's been 10+ years already, enough is enough, stick to your own class and let others have a chance to have fun playing their class.

What does this have to do with "Nightblade players"? Don't "Nightblade players" have the right to comment on balance? Or do you not want the game to be balanced so you can continue to dominate with Sorc?

Even more absurd is that some people actually think Pressure Points are better than Expert Mage. How can 2.5% Critical Chance be better than 108 Weapon Damage? Don't forget that in PvP, all experienced players have very high Critical Resistance; 2.5% Critical Chance is practically useless! Even in PvE, 108 Weapon Damage is better because Sorc can recover more health using Surge and Blood Magic!

NB players are allowed (and encouraged) to comment on balance when being constructive, not when they are deliberately spreading hate, lies, BS and other completely biased/nonsense takes that has zero basis in reality or the current state of the game.

Comments like the one I responded to that called for a 50% DPS nerf or 1500% nerf to it's cooldown is not something that is based in reality, fairness, or reason, it was nothing more than a biased cry about something that had no facts/proof to back it up. The comment has also since been disproven by Mashmalloman's math above showing the DPS of reverb is similar to the burning light passive (assuming reverb is proc'd at minimum every GCD, if it misses a single GCD it's worse than BL), while also being harder to proc than BL and nobody is complaining about BL, so reverb is left as a situational mastery for dummy parse number inflating at best and just not worth using over the other class masteries).

As for this comment, you are confusing crit chance with crit damage. Crit resist doesn't lower your opponents chances of getting a critical strike. Getting a Critical Strike will ALWAYS result in increased damage done unless you specifically build to have literally zero or negative critical damage done values, even against someone who has every available crit resistance possible, a critical strike will deal significantly increased damage than a non critical strike would.

The other thing that gets massively overlooked by those who think crit rate is worse than weapon damage is that crit rate also affects healing like weapon damage does, but unlike weapon damage where there's countless ways to reduce enemies weapon damage, there's only 1 debuff to reduce the targets chance to critically heal (minor uncertainty, no major version yet) and those come from poisons (super niche), torch bearer (laughably bad), travelling knife (prohibitively expensive to spam) and critical riposte set (hasn't been good in over 5+ years, probably much longer) and there (currently) no way to reduce the targets critical healing done stat (enervation does not affect critical healing, only critical damage).

There's a reason Assassination is the SINGLE MOST SUBCLASSED LINE ACROSS BOTH PVP AND PVE and that is even POST Merciless Resolve "nerf" (removal of it's free bonus weapon damage) that Assassination still holds that crown.

The line not only gives insane crit rate (nearly 50% just on it's own thanks to having 4 amazing abilities worth slotting) that buffs damage to insane levels, but also buffs healing more than anything else in this game can.
Which is why before sub-classing offering was a better heal in practice than what the tooltip showed, because assassination buffed it by giving it a near 50% chance to crit (which on an average build that has a baseline +50% healing done, at a 50% crit rate, that averages out to a roughly +25% unreducible buff to healing done at base (no other modifiers so not counting any bonuses from things like khajiit, champion points, sets, or anything else), which is something that no other heal skill had access to before everyone could sub-class assassination and not even the combat medic passive (+20% healing done while near a keep) increases healing done by that amount and that's the only thing that the combat medic passive does and only while near a keep in cyrodiil specifically.

There's a reason crit rate used to be so insanely hard to get before ZOS gave it all to the assassination line then allowed everyone to sub-class into that line. Crit rate is the single strongest stat in the game, nothing else even comes close to how strong and fast scaling crit rate is.

ZhuJiuyin

Just talk. But many players I've seen on forums (usually Nightblade players) seem to have a morbid hatred for Sorc, as if they won't rest until Sorc is removed from the game. Even though there are other more obviously unbalanced things, such as Arc Beam in PvE, overhealing in PvP, Netch, Warden's Class Flourish, etc., some people ignore these, even defend them, and even blame Sorc, using misleading data to try and get the developers to nerf Sorc.
According to the current game design, although Sorc and Nightblade are theoretically the strongest single-target damage classes, Sorc is more ranged/spellcaster-oriented, while Nightblade is more melee/martial-oriented, so their roles shouldn't overlap much, and there's no need for so much animosity between them. But some players seem to think that by eliminating Sorc, their class can obtain the only crown with the highest single-target damage in the game.

Pinktraining

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Exposing tedious mathematical arguments doesn't prove that Reverberation's current state is acceptable. In fact, it only makes people dislike Sorc and Reverberation more. Nobody likes having to calculate probabilities in the tense atmosphere of PvP. Reverberation either needs to be nerfed to a 5-second cooldown or have its damage nerfed by 50%, otherwise there's absolutely no reason to accept the current version of Reverberation into the live server.

Can NB mains who have absolutely zero clue about sorcerer stop commenting on sorcerers trying to get them deleted from the game.

It's been 10+ years already, enough is enough, stick to your own class and let others have a chance to have fun playing their class.

What does this have to do with "Nightblade players"? Don't "Nightblade players" have the right to comment on balance? Or do you not want the game to be balanced so you can continue to dominate with Sorc?

Even more absurd is that some people actually think Pressure Points are better than Expert Mage. How can 2.5% Critical Chance be better than 108 Weapon Damage? Don't forget that in PvP, all experienced players have very high Critical Resistance; 2.5% Critical Chance is practically useless! Even in PvE, 108 Weapon Damage is better because Sorc can recover more health using Surge and Blood Magic!

NB players are allowed (and encouraged) to comment on balance when being constructive, not when they are deliberately spreading hate, lies, BS and other completely biased/nonsense takes that has zero basis in reality or the current state of the game.

Comments like the one I responded to that called for a 50% DPS nerf or 1500% nerf to it's cooldown is not something that is based in reality, fairness, or reason, it was nothing more than a biased cry about something that had no facts/proof to back it up. The comment has also since been disproven by Mashmalloman's math above showing the DPS of reverb is similar to the burning light passive (assuming reverb is proc'd at minimum every GCD, if it misses a single GCD it's worse than BL), while also being harder to proc than BL and nobody is complaining about BL, so reverb is left as a situational mastery for dummy parse number inflating at best and just not worth using over the other class masteries).

As for this comment, you are confusing crit chance with crit damage. Crit resist doesn't lower your opponents chances of getting a critical strike. Getting a Critical Strike will ALWAYS result in increased damage done unless you specifically build to have literally zero or negative critical damage done values, even against someone who has every available crit resistance possible, a critical strike will deal significantly increased damage than a non critical strike would.

The other thing that gets massively overlooked by those who think crit rate is worse than weapon damage is that crit rate also affects healing like weapon damage does, but unlike weapon damage where there's countless ways to reduce enemies weapon damage, there's only 1 debuff to reduce the targets chance to critically heal (minor uncertainty, no major version yet) and those come from poisons (super niche), torch bearer (laughably bad), travelling knife (prohibitively expensive to spam) and critical riposte set (hasn't been good in over 5+ years, probably much longer) and there (currently) no way to reduce the targets critical healing done stat (enervation does not affect critical healing, only critical damage).

There's a reason Assassination is the SINGLE MOST SUBCLASSED LINE ACROSS BOTH PVP AND PVE and that is even POST Merciless Resolve "nerf" (removal of it's free bonus weapon damage) that Assassination still holds that crown.

The line not only gives insane crit rate (nearly 50% just on it's own thanks to having 4 amazing abilities worth slotting) that buffs damage to insane levels, but also buffs healing more than anything else in this game can.
Which is why before sub-classing offering was a better heal in practice than what the tooltip showed, because assassination buffed it by giving it a near 50% chance to crit (which on an average build that has a baseline +50% healing done, at a 50% crit rate, that averages out to a roughly +25% unreducible buff to healing done at base (no other modifiers so not counting any bonuses from things like khajiit, champion points, sets, or anything else), which is something that no other heal skill had access to before everyone could sub-class assassination and not even the combat medic passive (+20% healing done while near a keep) increases healing done by that amount and that's the only thing that the combat medic passive does and only while near a keep in cyrodiil specifically.

There's a reason crit rate used to be so insanely hard to get before ZOS gave it all to the assassination line then allowed everyone to sub-class into that line. Crit rate is the single strongest stat in the game, nothing else even comes close to how strong and fast scaling crit rate is.

No one complains about Burning Light, that's because Templars have low attack frequency and slow movement. But Sorc has the highest attack frequency and movement speed in the game, and now with Static Reverb as an additional damage source (even if the probability is unstable), it still severely damages PvP. Adding another damage source to a class with such high attack frequency and this class happens to dominate both PvP and PvE, is simply the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

Furthermore, we're talking about "pure Nightblades," not a single skill line. Assassination is currently the only somewhat usable line for Nightblades, and even adding more abilities to Assassination won't make pure Nightblades overpowered.

What's the point of more crit chances when your crit damage is negated by Critical Resistance?

Aces-High-82

Procing of any Lightning damage would take away the sorc exclusivity. I am very sure Sorc will get better ways to proc it in 7 months.
Tho being clunky that Set was able to create

Pinktraining wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Pinktraining wrote: »

Exposing tedious mathematical arguments doesn't prove that Reverberation's current state is acceptable. In fact, it only makes people dislike Sorc and Reverberation more. Nobody likes having to calculate probabilities in the tense atmosphere of PvP. Reverberation either needs to be nerfed to a 5-second cooldown or have its damage nerfed by 50%, otherwise there's absolutely no reason to accept the current version of Reverberation into the live server.

Can NB mains who have absolutely zero clue about sorcerer stop commenting on sorcerers trying to get them deleted from the game.

It's been 10+ years already, enough is enough, stick to your own class and let others have a chance to have fun playing their class.

What does this have to do with "Nightblade players"? Don't "Nightblade players" have the right to comment on balance? Or do you not want the game to be balanced so you can continue to dominate with Sorc?

Even more absurd is that some people actually think Pressure Points are better than Expert Mage. How can 2.5% Critical Chance be better than 108 Weapon Damage? Don't forget that in PvP, all experienced players have very high Critical Resistance; 2.5% Critical Chance is practically useless! Even in PvE, 108 Weapon Damage is better because Sorc can recover more health using Surge and Blood Magic!

NB players are allowed (and encouraged) to comment on balance when being constructive, not when they are deliberately spreading hate, lies, BS and other completely biased/nonsense takes that has zero basis in reality or the current state of the game.

Comments like the one I responded to that called for a 50% DPS nerf or 1500% nerf to it's cooldown is not something that is based in reality, fairness, or reason, it was nothing more than a biased cry about something that had no facts/proof to back it up. The comment has also since been disproven by Mashmalloman's math above showing the DPS of reverb is similar to the burning light passive (assuming reverb is proc'd at minimum every GCD, if it misses a single GCD it's worse than BL), while also being harder to proc than BL and nobody is complaining about BL, so reverb is left as a situational mastery for dummy parse number inflating at best and just not worth using over the other class masteries).

As for this comment, you are confusing crit chance with crit damage. Crit resist doesn't lower your opponents chances of getting a critical strike. Getting a Critical Strike will ALWAYS result in increased damage done unless you specifically build to have literally zero or negative critical damage done values, even against someone who has every available crit resistance possible, a critical strike will deal significantly increased damage than a non critical strike would.

The other thing that gets massively overlooked by those who think crit rate is worse than weapon damage is that crit rate also affects healing like weapon damage does, but unlike weapon damage where there's countless ways to reduce enemies weapon damage, there's only 1 debuff to reduce the targets chance to critically heal (minor uncertainty, no major version yet) and those come from poisons (super niche), torch bearer (laughably bad), travelling knife (prohibitively expensive to spam) and critical riposte set (hasn't been good in over 5+ years, probably much longer) and there (currently) no way to reduce the targets critical healing done stat (enervation does not affect critical healing, only critical damage).

There's a reason Assassination is the SINGLE MOST SUBCLASSED LINE ACROSS BOTH PVP AND PVE and that is even POST Merciless Resolve "nerf" (removal of it's free bonus weapon damage) that Assassination still holds that crown.

The line not only gives insane crit rate (nearly 50% just on it's own thanks to having 4 amazing abilities worth slotting) that buffs damage to insane levels, but also buffs healing more than anything else in this game can.
Which is why before sub-classing offering was a better heal in practice than what the tooltip showed, because assassination buffed it by giving it a near 50% chance to crit (which on an average build that has a baseline +50% healing done, at a 50% crit rate, that averages out to a roughly +25% unreducible buff to healing done at base (no other modifiers so not counting any bonuses from things like khajiit, champion points, sets, or anything else), which is something that no other heal skill had access to before everyone could sub-class assassination and not even the combat medic passive (+20% healing done while near a keep) increases healing done by that amount and that's the only thing that the combat medic passive does and only while near a keep in cyrodiil specifically.

There's a reason crit rate used to be so insanely hard to get before ZOS gave it all to the assassination line then allowed everyone to sub-class into that line. Crit rate is the single strongest stat in the game, nothing else even comes close to how strong and fast scaling crit rate is.

No one complains about Burning Light, that's because Templars have low attack frequency and slow movement. But Sorc has the highest attack frequency and movement speed in the game, and now with Static Reverb as an additional damage source (even if the probability is unstable), it still severely damages PvP. Adding another damage source to a class with such high attack frequency and this class happens to dominate both PvP and PvE, is simply the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

Furthermore, we're talking about "pure Nightblades," not a single skill line. Assassination is currently the only somewhat usable line for Nightblades, and even adding more abilities to Assassination won't make pure Nightblades overpowered.

What's the point of more crit chances when your crit damage is negated by Critical Resistance?

Obvious troll acc