Why is Haki still posting team vs team leaderboards? I thought 8v8s haven't been playable for a few days now already.

Don't worry though, I've got you:

Salvation of Battlegrounds Chapter 5897: Perfectly Balanced 3-Way BGs, Matchmaking Absolutely Not The Main Issue

0,0167% chance of losing. Opponents had full teams, opponents left their teams. I wonder why:
0,001% chance of winning. I bet my team had fun:
0,001% chance of winning. Oh look, just like the previous one:
77% chance of winning. I bet green team had fun:
99% chance of winning. No comment:
"0% chance of losing. We did because..."
...3-way BGs are fundamentally flawed. Two teams fight, one team runs to empty objectives - wins with zero kills.

Moonspawn wrote: »

Not necessarily. Looks 50/50 to me, could be either one.

Nah definitely 51/49.

That was my bad. I forgot to bring the 3 critical flaws of 3-sided from the other thread. I'll add them to one of my previous posts and link here.

@Decimus I know you've been actively campaigning against 3-sided Deathmatch for YEARS at this point, but could you openly oppose it one more time?

Haki_7 wrote: »

As far as I can tell, bringing back 3-sided with its third flaw resolved has resulted in near-instant queue times for both PC/NA and PC/EU. Is everyone experiencing the same?

Far as I can tell a slight decrease in queue speed, sometimes instant, but not really any meaningful match quality improvements, which is what I've thought you've been chasing all the time with your various Lopsided this, unwinnable that commentary. (and the uptick in queue may simply be from nostalgia and/or a mode with significant gameplay changes)

Were your instant queue matches good quality or not, or are you going to provide zero actionable feedback about the thing you want?

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

@Avran_Sylt wrote:

Why aren't you gushing about these matches, great time to do so.

Gushing would cloud one's judgment. I'm not blind to the game-breaking problems of 3-sided, but they do have obvious solutions. The four critical flaws of 2-sided do not.

3 team BG are definitely better. I wish they would honestly limit grouping to duos (2 per group). More people would love it than hate it. Or even expand the team sizes provided groups are limited to 2 people.

Ok lets clear a few things up! (I am speaking of 4v4 and 4v4v4 teams not 8v8, I personally think that's the worst iteration of BGS in the history of BGS)
2 Team BGS and 3 Team BGS both have their flaws.
I personally advocate for 3 Team for one simple reason. They ARE in generally more balanced AND give even new players a chance to flex a bit in PVP.
However, I see the appeal of 2 Team BGS. If both teams are matched well they can be a lot of fun.
So Here Are my pros and cons, and I'm just gonna hit the hi-lights, for both I'll start with 4v4v4

4v4v4 Pros
Easy entry level
Supported learning
No team is instantly ahead
Larger maps
Better LOS

Cons
Not always enough people
"features" that break the game (CB most notably with zero damage ball carries or base jumping etc)
Not enough onus on the match type (Teams camping other teams trying to DM)
Players queing then leaving to give another team the advantage
Base spawners that afk.

Now Ill address what I know is coming, the statement that 3 team BGS are more balanced overall and the RAGE lol
I keep seeing these posts where you show me 4 v2 v2 or 4v4v4 that's a blow out. BUT you fail to show the 4v4 scorecards that are 500-0 where one team was pinned in a base by 2 people and couldn't get out and it happens more often than not. For the MOST and I stress most part 3 team BGS allow for a more enjoyable, Learning, Teaching and group environment.

4v4 Pros
When Balanced SO much fun
easier to reach an objective
promotes a more PVP based environment

Cons
Team imbalance
Spawn camping 90% of the time
Unwelcoming to new players
Meta Driven

So Now Ill address the people who are going to argue that 4v4 is supposed to be "Competitive" and 8v8 is where new players or daily seekers should go.

First 8v8 is not fun its not relaxed and it shouldn't even be a thing.(My Opinion)
The people telling you 4v4 is supposed to be Competitive are also the ones that are dominating 95% of the matches and the ones that cry and rage quit when they are losing and you all know who you are. So reply at your own peril.
Telling a new player or a Daily seeker they should go to 8v8 and stop queing for 4v4 is not only not your place but detrimental to a healthy PVP environment.
As a community we need to be helping supporting and encouraging new players. Bring them into the fold, turn them to the Dark side lol. I'm not suggesting share ALL your secrets but don't drive them out and give GOOD advice so we can deepen the field.

Now My Take on Competitive vs fun
There are only 3 modes that should even come close to be considered Competitive. Chaos Ball, Crazy King, and of course Death Match. They are the only 3 that promote TRUE PVP.
Cap the Relic and Domination are more the fun lets play around games.
To that end We need to add points for kills and assists to the three Competitive games
And Add Healing points to the other two

In Summary
No one group is going to win this argument so there are some clear things that could be done.

First Lets get a Que system that works in regards to what people want. Lets Have a Competitive que that incorporates the PVP games and a fun game that has the others and you could even add CK or CB to that que so both have 3 options.

Have a system that includes both 2 team and 3 team BGS

OR Make a BG house where two groups of four can wage was, this would give the DM teams that are trying to parse against one another a pace to go and not deter people in BGS.

But Most importantly we need to be welcoming and supportive of new players and less tolerant of the people that want to ruin what we as a PVP GROUP love.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Would have loved to see some data points from you two about that 4v4v4 weekend but whatever.

I'm gathering the 8v8 Domination scoreboards I've posted so far in one place, so they can be compared with the ones I got during the event side by side.

Crazy King, no possibility of winning:
Domination 1 & 2, no possibility of losing. Desperately running between flags trying to end the nightmare while my team spawncamps. Third critical flaw of 2-sided:
Deathmatch 1 & 2, no possibility of losing. Spawncamping from start to finish:
Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 190: Waiting 37 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)
Chaosball, no possibility of losing. Soul gazing session with ball carriers:
Relic, no possibility of losing:

LittleLionLeone wrote: »

This thread gives me a headache. What are we even doing?

100% chance it's 1 guy on 2 accounts babbling incoherent nonsense to himself

0% chance the mods care about this thread

@LittleLionLeone wrote:

What are we even doing?

We are discussing the game-breaking problems that plague Battlegrounds.