Official Night Market Feedback Thread

timparr · May 4

I can't find a good place to ask this.

There are three weights of monster set for the night market. You can buy all the shoulders from the vendor, but not the heads. Do we get ALL missing pieces in the end of event rewards, or just one head and one shoulder piece? None of the literature is clear on this.

If it is one of each, how can I get the other two weights for the monster head???
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KevinO

I would appreciate some clarity over the language please.

Tandor · May 4

MidnightDuel wrote: »

What happens AFTER the Night Market ends?
Where will the entrance to the Night's Den house be located? Will players be able to exit the house in Fargrave when the Market is gone? Will there be an entrace somewhere in Fargrave?

The house icon is already on the map once you've received the house (and possibly have visited it, that may be required before the icon appears - I seem to have had a different experience with different accounts), so you will still be able to access it from the map or from your list of houses (which you can also access it through as soon as you receive it). Once the event has gone I believe that exiting the house will place you back where you were before you entered it.

sleepy_worm · May 4

I've used this build to solo the daily quests that do not require combat. Hug the walls.

NikoSquared · May 4

As a player who enjoys difficult content and grouping, this event was a blast

However, the event was not presented within the game as something you’d have to group up for (or run a solo vet build)

I feel like the reception would have been way better if there was a popup when trying to enter solo that would point players towards the “Event Zone” category in group finder, or even a special Night Market queue that puts together a group of 12 in the same target zone.

z32 · May 4

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Where did you get the idea that the majority wants a reduction in difficulty? Do you have any statistics?

How about you count number of people who posted positive feedback vs negative just in this thread. You will get both the idea and the stats.

z32 · May 4

code65536 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Randyfoxie wrote: »

Locking new content behind mandatory groups shuts out players who work. That’s not good design. Good MMO design respects different playstyles. This feels like it forgot solo players exist.

I believe they didn't forget solo players exist. I believe they want them to convert to groupies or leave the game. It would have been easy to place a difficulty scale on this, but ZOS clearly stated that they were meaning to require grouping for this event.

Question: you've been vocal about how much you as a solo player hate the Night Market ever since PTS, so I have to ask, do you also say stuff like this every time we get a dungeon DLC? Because those are definitely not for solo players too.

The game has a wide variety of players, so it's impossible for every piece of content to make everyone happy. I didn't like Tales of Tribute. I dislike the entire companion system. But even though I dislike them, I know that there are players who do like them, and I'm not going to get mad at ZOS for making something for those players. I ignore those parts of the game. So, if you hate the Night Market, why not just ignore it too?

(For the record, I'd much rather have a dungeon DLC than the Night Market.)

Because NM is not just Dungeon or Trial. Whole zone including overland part is turned into one. Nobody would complain if overland zone was normal overland zone and you had your dungeon and trial in it. How would you feel if everything in NM was overland difficulty including dungeon and trial, and then you were told to ignore it and do your existing dungeons and trails that you have plenty of?

Tandor · May 4

z32 wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Where did you get the idea that the majority wants a reduction in difficulty? Do you have any statistics?

How about you count number of people who posted positive feedback vs negative just in this thread. You will get both the idea and the stats.

Bear in mind that a lot of those with negative feedback don't want the existing difficulty level reduced as such, they want an additional option giving a reduced difficulty level - so that as with dungeons there would be a veteran level (as existing) and a normal level (reduced from the existing difficulty level).

I think that would increase the number of players able to participate in the NM without changing the experience and challenge for those who like the present difficulty level - and could actually act as a very useful training tool for the more traditional trials.

croakie · May 4

I’m a decent player and I like the night market but frankly the grind is awful. We’ve been in there all weekend and how we’ve progressed has seriously been influenced by the caliber of our dps or by the sheer number of people in our groups. Two tanks, a healer and a few really good dps it’s a blast. Two tanks, a healer and the more casual players, unless you have 9 of them, and we can’t clear the same content and it’s super frustrating. I loved the dungeons, but the grind to get to the much easier dungeon content is very wearing.

If this is a preview of the upcoming challenge overland difficulty you might want to rethink that.

code65536 · May 4

z32 wrote: »

Because NM is not just Dungeon or Trial. Whole zone including overland part is turned into one.

The entire Night Market, including the mini-dungeons and mini-trial (which are just single boss fights) is for groups, so that's the point. There is no "overland" in Night Market. If this had been a dungeon DLC, you'll get two dungeons and that's it--there's no "overland" in there either.

z32 wrote: »

How would you feel if everything in NM was overland difficulty including dungeon and trial, and then you were told to ignore it and do your existing dungeons and trails that you have plenty of?

That would depend. If we are getting a dungeon DLC this year, then I'd be perfectly fine with that. I said during PTS--and I said again in the post that you quoted--that I would vastly prefer a dungeon DLC over the Night Market. Night Market has its highlights (Opulent), but for the most part it's a grindy repacking of old content--kind of like a group version of Infinite Archive, and if I could sacrifice it for the usual dungeon DLC, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But there is no dungeon DLC this year, so here we are.

But for people who prefer solo content, there are Rumors, Favors, and two new stories coming soon, plus a new zone later this year. My point is that one event zone that is not tailored for the solo player is no different than them doing an entire DLC that is similarly not intended for the solo player, and they used to do the latter twice a year, every year.

Mathius_Mordred · May 4

My overall thoughts are not positive, sadly.

I find the whole event to be a massive grind for pretty useless rewards.

Thanks for the house; it's ok for free, and you do get it fairly quickly, though a lot of grinding is required to unlock three rather unimpressive small rooms.

There are a few cool furnishings which you cannot buy unless you have favors, which themselves take a long time to grind. You clear an area of mobs, stop a sec to organise your inventory, then the mobs instantly return and wipe you out whilst deconstructing, so you have to make sure to jump up to a safe spot before inventory management.

If you are in a large group and someone wants to join you, good luck to them trying to reach you solo if you are at the top of the map.

This really needs a veteran trial group to be successful, as it's basically a veteran trial mob and boss level. This is very off-putting for many people.

The constant fighting for hours is tedious.

There appears to be no point to any of it, there's no story that I could understand.

The different factions mean you have people in your group that you can't share quests with, and so they want to go one way, whilst you want to go another.

There are very few new monsters; everything I've seen is repackaged stuff from other dungeons, apart from the environmental art and a bit of coding I imagine this was cheap to make.

As someone else said, it's like a group version of the IA at super hard difficulty level.

I look forward to real content later in the year.

These are a few of my own personal thoughts; feel free to disagree, but I won't be commenting further, and I'm probably done with this event now unless it changes considerably the next time it's introduced.

code65536 · May 4

The different factions mean you have people in your group that you can't share quests with, and so they want to go one way, whilst you want to go another.

It's the opposite, actually, and multi-factionalism can turbo-charge quest sharing.

So, the minor quests in the districts can never be shared, no matter what.

But having different people from different factions actually makes quest sharing easier. So let's say you have 3 people, each who can pick up a different quest from their faction leader. Let's say Alice gets the Argent quest, Bob gets the Brazen quest, and Frank gets the Fleet quest. So if all three people are in the same faction, they could do all 3 quests, but they'd have to do it one at a time, like overland world bosses. A shares her quest to everyone, they do it, turn it in, and then B picks up and shares his quest, and they all do it, and then F picks up and shares their quest. Three quests, but only one at a time. But if they all belonged to different factions, then they can all pick up their quest, and all share it, and they could have all 3 quests in their quest journals at the same time.

So faction diversity in a group actually helps makes quest sharing easier and smoother. The problem is that none of this is intuitive. You can't tell by looking at your quest journal if the Argent quest that you have was originally picked up by a Ruckus player or by an Eyes player--the quests all have the same identical quest IDs, regardless of which faction picked it up, and the faction is a property of the quest that is hidden from the user. And even if the user wanted to manually note which faction shared which quest, you can't easily see which faction someone belongs to (unless they tell you or you pay attention to where they go for quests turn-ins) so even if you know that Argent came from Alice, you don't know if that's an Argent quest sourced from Eyes or from Ruckus.

Fruity_Ninja · May 4

First few days I was struggling, as the zone just felt dead. I wasn’t using group finder at that stage- I hadn’t even thought of that. There is a major issue with instancing in my opinion, the zone should have heaps of people running around. This in itself would cause less complaints.

But once I realised using group finder to get a group together was actually being used by the player base, I discovered how enjoyable and well thought out the zone is. I had a blast over the weekend, it felt like some fun, genuinely challenging PVE content.

The grind shouldn’t be so bad either, as long as groups can be formed, then it’s not an overly big grind. It only took a 4 or so hour grind to unlock all keys and get all the shards. The Favor isn’t that hard to come by either.

Not a fan of the Oddities, that’s my only criticism (especially the boulder one)

If you can find away to make the zones fell more full vs the player base being so segmented via instances, then I think you’re onto a winner.

tomofhyrule · May 4

I will say that the one day I was in there when it seemed all 36 players were in the instance at the same place (surprisingly, that was a Saturday night during primetime), performance did start to degrade pretty heavily and the combat was in super trivial mode that we see during most overland events, where they all got deleted within seconds.

I do think there are too many instances spun up though. They really should make it so it ensures that the instances are full before a new one comes up. I have been in at off-peak hours and clearly see very few people around.

I don't think it needs more players per instance so much as it needs to ensure all instances are filled.

Delphinid · May 4

The event would be improved for me if i
-could stealth around the districts but there appears to be too much trash
-have immunity when i enter a district so i can get to my group (like when i respawn)
-highlight were the quests are as they are unclear and the icons are almost invisible
-trash respawn is to quick so I can't progress a quest
-identify which district groups are in rather just night market
-add a countdown for skirmishes active & inactive
-drop repair keys more often

code65536 · May 4

Delphinid wrote: »

add a countdown for skirmishes active & inactive

There is one in the base game. But it's buried in the UI. You have to open the Night Market UI (F5 on PC) and then you have the change to the Scoreboard view (F on PC). And there, on the scoreboard window is the skirmish status.

The UI design for Night Market is baffling.

Alternatively, there's an addon that lets you see the skirmish status and timer without having to navigate through unintuitive UI screens.

z32 · May 4

Tandor wrote: »

Bear in mind that a lot of those with negative feedback don't want the existing difficulty level reduced as such, they want an additional option giving a reduced difficulty level - so that as with dungeons there would be a veteran level (as existing) and a normal level (reduced from the existing difficulty level).

I think that would increase the number of players able to participate in the NM without changing the experience and challenge for those who like the present difficulty level - and could actually act as a very useful training tool for the more traditional trials.

I never suggested to remove all HM content but the only viable way to quickly fix this is to bring overland zone to the overland difficulty level. ZOS does it all the time, so they already have the code. Adding difficulty switch to whole zone is a lot of effort and can not be done in few weeks, we are talking about months of effort.

"code65536 wrote:

z32 wrote: »

How would you feel if everything in NM was overland difficulty including dungeon and trial, and then you were told to ignore it and do your existing dungeons and trails that you have plenty of?

That would depend. If we are getting a dungeon DLC this year, then I'd be perfectly fine with that. I said during PTS--and I said again in the post that you quoted--that I would vastly prefer a dungeon DLC over the Night Market. Night Market has its highlights (Opulent), but for the most part it's a grindy repacking of old content--kind of like a group version of Infinite Archive, and if I could sacrifice it for the usual dungeon DLC, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But there is no dungeon DLC this year, so here we are.

But for people who prefer solo content, there are Rumors, Favors, and two new stories coming soon, plus a new zone later this year. My point is that one event zone that is not tailored for the solo player is no different than them doing an entire DLC that is similarly not intended for the solo player, and they used to do the latter twice a year, every year.

Are you saying the new zone will never get dungeon and trial? As for this event, it is very different because of the drops. They are like from overland zone and not valuable to you but very valuable to regular players, new players. Most can not even finish house.
There is fundamental difference between your group of players and the rest: you choose not to do solo and easy content while many regular players and new players cannot do Trials. The fact that you are not totally happy this either proves that ZOS did terrible job: they managed to upset vast majority of regular players while have not made happy players like you. Same as vast majority of regular players, I would be more then happy if you got you standard dungeons and trials and we would get this with all furnishing drops etc.. Here we all agree.

licenturion · May 4

timparr wrote: »

I can't find a good place to ask this.

There are three weights of monster set for the night market. You can buy all the shoulders from the vendor, but not the heads. Do we get ALL missing pieces in the end of event rewards, or just one head and one shoulder piece? None of the literature is clear on this.

If it is one of each, how can I get the other two weights for the monster head???
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KevinO

I would appreciate some clarity over the language please.

Each time you complete the end trial you get another head piece you don’t have yet.

If they just give it out at the end of the event it would basically devalue all the time people spend actually playing and grinding stuff in the zone.

ESO_player123 · May 4

timparr wrote: »

I can't find a good place to ask this.

There are three weights of monster set for the night market. You can buy all the shoulders from the vendor, but not the heads. Do we get ALL missing pieces in the end of event rewards, or just one head and one shoulder piece? None of the literature is clear on this.

If it is one of each, how can I get the other two weights for the monster head???
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KevinO

I would appreciate some clarity over the language please.

@timparr I do not know for sure how many drop in the end of the event (though I think I've read somewhere that it's one head and one shoulder), but the heads drop from the Opulent trial.

twisttop138 · May 4

thechalkdust wrote: »

Been running Night Market a lot since release. Some solo, some small group, some large group. ~6500 favor.

Overall, the new content is really cool. I'm loving the difficulty level and ad hoc coordination between groups. It feels like this is what Craglorn was supposed to be, an open zone requiring group play for the difficult bits.

Main complaint: consuming keys makes coordinating a full 12-man team ridiculous. Requiring the keys is not the problem. But consuming the keys creates a logistical nightmare for raid teams. Getting everyone together on the same page is too tedious, and it takes so long that you can lose half the group before collecting the keys that one player needed. The logistical bar is too high already, and will only get worse as participation drops off.

Minor complaint: randos who don't know wtf they are doing are capable of screwing up the mechanics on skirmish fights. Our group was stalled by randos grabbing the motes and not attuning the rods, for example. Mechanics should avoid punishing groups for the actions of randos.

Bonus complaint: not enough population! It's awesome when groups team up on a tough encounter, but that doesn't happen enough at these population levels. It's fun running into other solo players or small groups, but there are not enough of them. Raise the population cap per zone!

A few bugs:
1) Single-target abilities randomly busted. (Or is that a feature?)
2) Disconnected during the werewolf fight hunt mechanic, causing the werewolf to get stuck and unable to progress for the team left behind.
3) The duneripper got stuck unkillable after his insides were all busted.
4) Respawned on the rooftop once, and immediately died again while already dead (died in ghost form). It was the most dead I have ever been. Was permanently stuck dead until relogging.

This is extremely insightful. They just made it way to confusing. Kill this to get that and these for this and those for something. It's not intuitive at all. The skirmishes need to be happening faster. And yes. He's absolutely correct. Random players can appear and steal taunt to reset bosses or keep taunting off to create taunt immunity. They can also really screw up the oddities. God knows if they think they're helping.

I'm experiencing weird bugs in there. Half the time flail will just not work. And not just for me. Bar swapping and skills not firing outside of flail is also common. The warewolf fight will just bug out and not be completable. This is bad because of the above. Can't get people for the trial cause everyone needs to redo every boss. Every. Time. Not a good system.

Apart from that we're having a blast. We did a 6 man optimized group, just split our raid team. Breeze. On Thursday we did 3 hours of 16 people and it was casual quester folks from my social guild I wanted to get out there and have some backup. Little more challenging, funny enough. Friday I took 2 groups of 12 at the same time, all in a guild vc channel. Never again lol. Hard to wrangle that many people lol. This time we went from around 730 to 1am. Got everyone everything they needed.

I'm bummed some don't like it but despite complaints on the forums, I'm in 5 guilds. 1 social, 2 trial, 1 trading and 1 housing. Hundreds of people on and majority are in the night market. Chat is hard to read because people are looking for, forming or talking about grouping to get in the night market. Despite the bugs, despite the difficulty level which becomes much easier if you group up, despite the extremely lackluster rewards, despite the lag, despite the lack of story and the very grindy key and splinter stuff. Despite all that, tons of players are in there having a good time. Zos said they were doing experimental and on the fun factor and cool and interesting factor they did good. We just need some dialing in. Also not opposed to a story mode that doesn't give keys.

code65536 · May 4

z32 wrote: »

all furnishing drops etc

So, you know how I said that the enemies are recycled? Well, so are the rewards. You can get gear... that has already existed in the game for years. You can get motifs... that had already been dropping. And the furnishing plans? None of them are new. If the concern about ignoring Night Market is that you'll miss out on the rewards, you really aren't missing much.

z32 wrote: »

Here we all agree.

I have been critical of the Night Market since its appearance on PTS. Back then, I wrote the following:

Problems like this are kind of unavoidable for this format of content. Make the the mechanics matter, and you alienate a large majority of players, but right now, the mechanics being recycled and not mattering means that these encounters are just not interesting for veteran dungeon runners. In dungeons, you can solve this problem with normal/veteran/HM difficulties, but you can't do that here and, well, you see now why I am skeptical of the Night Market replacing actual dungeon content.
It seems like your solution here is to just make all the bosses big beefy damage sponges that also dish out lots of damage, which is basically exactly like the Solstice siege camps. For me, it just meant that the Night Market as a whole felt like a tedious slog (but not difficult, since we had a tank), and for many other players... well, you can see the other feedback in this thread. And again, this is yet another exhibit for why proper dungeon instances with selectable difficulty and assigned roles is the gold standard for content in this game.

I was--and still am--unhappy about Night Market replacing dungeon DLCs. But I get it, they want to try something new, something different from the usual format, and based on how quickly groups pop up and fill in Group Finder, I think it's probably been mostly successful.

Soarora · May 4

Feedback 5…. I don’t know, last was 5.5 and this is another short one. Rename last to 5.1 and this to 5.2?

After seeing Code’s ui addon, I do think next time you should just ditch the scores and show the skirmishes & how many keys you have. It took me a while to figure out there was a menu to open on PTS… and then I didn’t see that there’s two pages… so I understand how people are confused.

The Curator does say scores are calculated at the end, so it being calculated live doesn’t actually make sense immersion-wise.

twisttop138 · May 4

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Alright guys… feedback post number 5. This post will focus on my experiences today as someone cataloguing quests on a thief build, as a member of a midgame guild group, and as the leader of a mostly pug group.

I started with doing the daring races on my stage 4 vampire nightblade. The Parch one I had already done and that one’s straightforward to me but the other two took me a bit to figure out. I struggled most with Sorrow’s Friend’s as I couldn’t remember where all 5 nodes were at the same time… and also didn’t know if it was 5 that I needed. My suggestion here would be to include in the pop-up that there’s 5 void tears to close.

As for questing, nightblade is soooo useful!!! Vampire wasn’t even necessary. I used it a few times but nightblade’s cloak is more than enough. I was really struggling with the IT’S NOT A MAGICKA POTION quest because I didn’t realize the potion is in ONE of the areas… I checked the wrong two areas for so long…

Whilst I was questing, I also followed around a midgame guild group I was in vc with. Despite how Absolutely Terrible my thief build is, I felt pretty safe (I mostly stayed at range during bosses and invisible around trash).

As that group started to crumble away, a friend of mine logged on. We duoed some of the trash as tank + dps (me tanking, them a corpseburster necro dd) and it was fun and smooth. Then we started picking up random people we came across (group of 4 now)… and the aforementioned group I was a part of earlier in the day came and saved us at a boss. We combined groups, added some friends, and had a good time killing bosses.

But then suddenly… people. Another large group came through and joined our fight. I was, admittedly, mildly scared because I’m intimidated by people I recognize the name of but haven’t really talked to. And I recognized some of the names. Some from this forum… others… scorepushers. In this moment was an interesting feeling of solidarity where midgamers, endgamers, and scorepushers were all engaged in a fight together and let me tell you… it was beautiful. This is a feeling I only really have had on the PTS.

As the original group finished disbanding, I re-formed with me, my friend, one person we picked up randomly, that persons friend and my friend’s friend… and then we ran into the aforementioned group of people I find intimidating. I felt a bit bad chasing them around because I didn’t want to annoy them but one of them told us in /say where they were going next so we could keep up and that dispelled that worry of mine. Overall, this metagrouping combination did lead to fights going quicker than I had seen before but not to the point of mechanic irrelevancy. It was perfect as a meeting of the groups situation. The other group left, and on we kept chugging along.

From here, we joined up with a member of my guild and started killing some bosses & skirmishes. I later made a group finder listing, which filled very fast and had very friendly people. I didn’t specify any specific boss, just where we were and our next goal and people stuck around.

One point of feedback is that these “pugs” seemed rather confused. Not everyone knew what Night Market was, what keys were, what relics are… people didn’t know how to get to the south Parch bosses because all the paths on the map are blocked… sometimes people went in the wrong area and were confused as to why no one was there (feedback someone else had mentioned in a chat was to make the doors look more like the area they represent). I’m directionally challenged so that’d help me too. I’m having to remember the districts by color but then looking at the skirmish timers, two of them are red… and inside Sorrow’s Friend is purple so it’s hard to remember that it’s blue. But I also have weird color connotations to content.

Anyway, we then ran into ANOTHER large group of people. And we had some fun in /say talking to each other about the amount of damage we were collectively dealing to the bosses, someone from the other group told us which boss they were going to next and we followed. It felt like we were a force of nature, ravaging all the bosses in our path. But again, a time of solidarity and passing friendship. We lost them in a district, perhaps they went off to do other things, and we continued on by ourselves until it was time for most of us to go to bed.

The major takeaway I have from today is just how enjoyable it can be to run into organized groups. Especially with tabardless guild repping and people talking to each other outside of group chat. Soft grouping absolutely does happen between groups of people and I also manually sent invites out to people who were alone as I saw them (if I had room). But as a solo player, I only saw a few other people doing their own thing (and the group I knew about and the location of because I was in vc with them).

Shout out to everyone I ran into today and thank you for making it such a fun experience .

P.S. I think having the overland loot is actually straight-up worse than not having any loot at all. It’s clogging inventory space so bad. And clogged inventory means people might not even pick up important items like the splinters, not realizing they need those.

Genuine question: so you are happy just to run around in a group killing things without much purpose beyond killing things? As it does not sound like you are doing dailies or getting <bits> for other stuff.

I know you didn't ask me but this is a good question. I won't speak for @Soarora but just for myself. I did identify with a lot of what they said though. For myself, I have all the rooms open, I have the relics and keys and have had them since Thursday/Friday. I haven't done the dungeon bosses or trial yet. Im saving the dungeon bosses for my dungeon group to blind run. Due to real life, we all didn't have everything till yesterday.

I have been leading, after my raid team Wednesday, large groups of my social guild players. Almost every day. Till the wee hours of the night. Mostly in boss killing groups. These are made up of different kinds of players but there are folks in there that are solo players, housing players, casuals who've never grouped and had to get in voice chat to explain how to travel to player. People that might have a hard time getting the relics. The rooms open. Getting favor, whatever that's good for. I don't mind doing the bosses over and over and over again. I've heard it said here, that not everyone has an optimized raid team. That's true. But everyone can access their guilds and I hope there's people like my guildmates and .myself who are there to help them. Explain mechanics, know where to go. So I know, for myself, it's a damn good time. We've had so many laughs and memories made this past few days.

That's not to say the night market is perfect. It's buggy. It's confusing. It's extremely unrewarding. If you're like me and going to be doing the dungeon and trial bosses, it's pointlessly grindy. You're almost punished for using your keys, if you're not like me and don't care about running around for a few hours killing bosses. I also think the instance cap is too low. I'd be interested in seeing how many instances there are. I can see on my guild rosters, 100's of people in the night market, but I'll travel in by myself and see nobody. I wonder if it's just bugged and spinning up instances way more than required.

So it's cool content. Fresh in some ways. I think the communication around it was very lacking. I think that after they sold us the tomes system so they could start making money, that the new communication and transparency went right out the window. I can also see why people are upset but they have to realize that this and the trial is it. Next season the quest and exploration people get content. We're now in a drip feed seasonal system. It's never going to be like it was before where big content drops came and there was tons for everyone. Those days are over. There will be seasons that are a bust for you.

tomofhyrule · May 4

z32 wrote: »

There is fundamental difference between your group of players and the rest: you choose not to do solo and easy content while many regular players and new players cannot do Trials.

Can we stop with this argument?

Everyone can do everything in this game. It exists. You are choosing not to do trials.

I have been in dungeon groups where I, as a fully kitted tank, am outparsing both DPS. I have been in trial groups where people have never spent an iota of thought about their build. I have jumped into DLC dungeons when we all had sub level 10 Arcanists with basically no gear right after the Class released (and the random queue gave us Bal Sunnar). It is fully possible to do them at any level.
What people need to do is join a guild that intends to bring people into content, and teaches them the game.

Are there problems with the Night Market? Of course!
I'd have much preferred another set of dungeons, especially since the last set were absolute bangers. But I think there's actually a major logic bug affecting the Night Market right now that's also making it a worse experience for everyone - There was a recent acknowledgement of the 'Faceted not spawning' bug that I think may be related to the problems a lot of people are reporting. If instances are not resetting or dynamically changing, that seems to be why so many guild rosters are full of people in the Night Market, but most instances seem completely empty.
I presume the logic of the game is to spread the playerbase evenly across instances so you don't have performance issues. But the Night Market works best when the instance is pretty full. If they're not spinning up and down properly, that means we could have way too many instances open and then players are being spread too thinly. I don't think it's an issue with the 36-player cap, the issue is that cap isn't being hit anywhere.
As an example: if there are 300 players who are going into the Night Market, the best option would be to have 10 instances of 30 players. But if the game has 100 instances active, the logic would rather place 3 players per instance so they are more stable... which means there's really nobody in any specific instance. That logic needs to be fixed for the next round.

twisttop138 · May 4

Martiandawn wrote: »

I've been to Night Market several times. There is hardly anyone there. That reality offers a stark contrast to previous expansions, when newly-opened map areas would be swarming with players in the wake of a chapter release.

In the past, ESO expansions included new world areas with story quests geared toward solo play along with dungeons and trials designed for group play. This expansion offers nothing for "casual" players who tend to play solo; it is geared toward the "hardcore" gamers who chase after builds that make the most of the current meta. It is not surprising that casual players are deciding to pass on Night Market. However, most of the hardcode folks seem to be ignoring it as well, despite assertions made by the players who are defending it so vigorously in the comments on this thread.

Unfortunately for Zenimax, "casual" gamers are the ones who have been keeping ESO alive for all these years. The "hardcore" folks have shown themselves to be fickle; when they feel the game is not challenging enough, they go away and play other games until some new patch catches their interest. The "casual" players keep right on playing ESO, spending money on subscriptions and cosmetics. Night Market offers nothing for those "casual" players who have been subsidizing the game.

Perhaps the next "event" will offer something to entice "casual" players to stick around. Zenimax should be worried about how many of those "casual" players are going to drift away in the meantime.

I know some people may not be aware but this is not an expansion. ESO no longer has expansions. The chapter model was killed, much to the delight of many here on the forums. We are now on a seasonal model. Each season will likely have a theme and a battle pass around that theme. We know this is the case for next season. There will not be a new zone to explore this year but multiple solo questing for next season. There will also be dynamic events that scale and can be solo'd easily as well as new ways to do dailies in rumors and favors. The new system is a solo puzzle style IA. So plenty for casual solo players to do. It's just all on a seasonal model now.

I would very much tell you that anyone who says "this style of player has been keeping the lights on" is incorrect. You should endeavor to not spread that kind of misinformation. More likely it's that many different kinds of players subscribe, but crowns and dlc stuff. Most players I know aren't just 1 kind of player. They do housing, questing, dungeons, overland dailies, all kinds of things. Anyone that tells you this is what the majority is or wants is lying to you.

SilverBride · May 4

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Can we stop with this argument?

Everyone can do everything in this game. It exists. You are choosing not to do trials.

No, everyone cannot do everything in this game. A lot of players cannot do difficult content. There are some players that even struggle with overland due to physical or other limitations. No amount of preparation or "getting gud" can fix that.

Lavia_Frons · May 4

z32 wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Where did you get the idea that the majority wants a reduction in difficulty? Do you have any statistics?

How about you count number of people who posted positive feedback vs negative just in this thread. You will get both the idea and the stats.

Might I also suggest looking at how many people click "agree" or "awesome" or "insightful" in response to the neg. feedback vs. pos. feedback. This thread shows an obvious leaning towards the majority of players being unhappy with the NM. On top of all the neg. responses the fact that many who are enjoying (or trying to enjoy) the NM are pointing out that it's a ghost town shows players are unhappy with ZOS' choices for the NM. Be it the difficulty, mechanics, rewards, etc.

It may be a basic concept.
But unhappy players don't play.

I don't run trials but (I learned this through reading the posts here) the fact that those who do are displeased with the drops/rewards is wild. Wild that ZOS wouldn't give them something worth their time and effort. There are so many dungeons my partner and I will run over and over again to try and get a specific item and we have FUN doing it. How could ZOS miss out on that basic idea for the NM trial and dungeon(s?). But I suppose it goes hand in hand with the lame plague doctor rewards from doing dailies.

Hopefully they find some magic fix but until then I fear it's a death sentence for NM.
It could have been a really cool area too, that's what sucks the most.
Fingers crossed they rework it.

Kallykat · May 4

I'm late to the party and just completed the second quest last night (the first one that asks you to enter the Parch, Skittering, etc.) I guess I was expecting those areas to be like public dungeons with DLC dungeons accessible through them. I thought they encouraged grouping but could be grouped casually and temporarily as you come across people like in public dungeons. I ran around all three areas last night and didn't see a single soul. Am I required to use the group finder in these areas in order to fight with other players? I really hate grouping, but I can't even kill trash mobs on my own.

I'll give more feedback to the devs on this thread as I attempt more in the NM, but I figured this was a good place to get answers (and there's some implied feedback here anyway).

rockDokRock · May 4

The adds respawn rate is ridiculously high; please nerf that. It's ridiculous.

haleysarahw · May 4

Zone is enjoyable, and group finder makes it very achievable. I've found it to be a great way to meet guildies I wouldn't otherwise have run across either!

Only change I would personally support is to change the instancing to feel more full. The instances I've spawned into that feel more crowded definitely help with the hype and festivity, and it's nice to soft zerg with a couple groups rolling around. It's not necessary by any means but it helps with the atmosphere.

CTBee · May 4

Loving Night Market so far! It's been fun helping people collect all their fragments and complete dailies.

Having a way to see where people are in your night market instance (outside of your group) would be very nice. I think that would alleviate some of the solo player frustrations and be really nice for being able to jump in and join others without asking for invites in the lobby or going through Group Finder.