Official Night Market Feedback Thread

Lapin_Logic · May 3

Apollosipod wrote: »

Randyfoxie wrote: »

Locking new content behind mandatory groups shuts out players who work. That’s not good design. Good MMO design respects different playstyles. This feels like it forgot solo players exist.

Yelling at the clouds about NM "forgetting solo players" is the most chicken little thing I've ever heard. .

To be fair, the zone *is* a ghost town most of the time, so I can understand popping on at an odd hour/lunch break it's not something you have a good time "playing"

Daimonion82 · May 3

What can I say? It's a terrible zone. Been there, get killed couple of times, lost interest. It reminds me of the worst places in the game - Craglorn, Imperial City, Nymics... Somehow it's even worse.
If you want it to be played only by elitists who love grouping, then its' fine. Everyone else out.
So - lower the difficulty and make it soloable (just do it like in dungeons - normal mode and veteran mode). If not I think it will be a dead zone in a week and you are exluding 90% of playerbase.
Shame because I thing the feeling of the zone is great. I'd love to spend some time there. But not in current state. I play for fun not frustration.

Rhaena · May 3

Honestly I've never been so disappointed in new content in a game for a long time. It's not an enjoyable zone, the group requirement doesn't respect your time and makes it difficult to play this on your way with the time you have. I've played this content a couple times and then logged off, definitely needs some significant adjustments.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 3

So, after completing all 3 districts (3 dungeons & 1 trial left) I think that overall it is almost fun to play. The thing is that ZOS is trying to do something impossible here and they actually almost succeeded.

First & foremost content should be fun to play - this is the 1st thing on the check list. Bu the Night Market has one (or two) serious flaws. There are pretty much only 2 ways you can play it:

1 - wander around solo & do things you can do solo (like random daily quests & "racing" quests)
2 - use group finder and hope for the best.

Picking option 1 pretty much makes beating bosses impossible. Picking option 2 pretty much makes random quests, races & oddities quest almost impossible to do as you have to run around with a group. But, even if you just use group finder just to beat bosses - it is not guaranteed that the group will not disband after 1st or 2nd boss since some one done quest or got relic fragment & left.

What this event needs is a 3rd option - something that would combine using group finder & playing solo while occasionally stumbling upon other players.

Imagine if the game would simply dynamically create multiple instances of districts with like a 30 - 40 player limit. So if you enter lets say The Parch - you & other players going to that zone will be placed there too. So you will not be in a group, but rather in a large trail-like public dungeon with a player limit. Right now, if you play solo Night Market districts feels deserted. There is simply not enough players there to take out a single boss. And even if by some chance there will be some players there - you really don't know where they are as bosses don't have any indicator if some one fight them (like Dolmens do).

Vonnegut2506 · May 3

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

So, after completing all 3 districts (3 dungeons & 1 trial left) I think that overall it is almost fun to play. The thing is that ZOS is trying to do something impossible here and they actually almost succeeded.

First & foremost content should be fun to play - this is the 1st thing on the check list. Bu the Night Market has one (or two) serious flaws. There are pretty much only 2 ways you can play it:

1 - wander around solo & do things you can do solo (like random daily quests & "racing" quests)
2 - use group finder and hope for the best.

Picking option 1 pretty much makes beating bosses impossible. Picking option 2 pretty much makes random quests, races & oddities quest almost impossible to do as you have to run around with a group. But, even if you just use group finder just to beat bosses - it is not guaranteed that the group will not disband after 1st or 2nd boss since some one done quest or got relic fragment & left.

What this event needs is a 3rd option - something that would combine using group finder & playing solo while occasionally stumbling upon other players.

Imagine if the game would simply dynamically crate multiple instances of districts with like a 30 - 40 player limit. So if you enter lets say The Parch - you & other players going to that zone will be placed there too. So you will not be in a group, but rather in a large trail-like public dungeon with a player limit. Right now, if you play solo Night Market districts feels deserted. There is simply not enough players there to take out a single boss. And even if by some chance there will be some players there - you really don't know where they are as bosses don't have any indicator if some one fight them (like Dolmens do).

I wish they would apply the 36-person limit to a district, not the entire zone. I think 36 people in one district would actually be pretty good for solo-follow along as well as organized groupings.

allochthons · May 3

I've played a lot now (7K faction reputation, no potions), and I'm starting to really like it. These are what I see as the big outstanding issues:

Player cap:
Yes, we've all said it, many times. The player cap is waaay too low.
I've made a habit, whenever I'm in a big group, to yell in zone chat "zerg in N. Skittering" or similar, to let other people come surf.
The Zone Chat does carry from one precinct to the next, or to the Plaza. I tested it today.

Keys:
Once we earn our way into a dungeon and the trial, we should be able to re-enter at any time. Otherwise, it's too hard to sync up. I've helped multiple groups farm their keys for dungeons now, but still haven't had a chance to do the trial.

Add respawn and placement:
They respawn too fast, and complicate the Oddities and Races. Esp the spawns on the boulder race. You can be *almost* done, and the spawns pop up and then you can't interact with the race any more. That is very frustrating.

And I'll be tanking a boss like Ozezan, and I've very carefully pulled the adds in manageable groups, and we'll be on Ozezan and doing well. Then the old adds spawn back in and overwhelm the group. Even a good group can wipe. (But not a great group. A great group can handle it).

Side/Precinct Quests not spawning/bugged:
The quest markers really need to be visible from slightly longer away. Sometimes they don't draw in until you're literally on top of them. And I've seen the Propaganda hanging in mid-air, not attached to a building or post.

Faceted Foes:
Do not spawn enough. I've spent hours in here. And have never seen one.

Race Bonuses:
They're great, but having "Void Escape" or the other synergies up all the time prevents us from taking other synergies.

Loot.
Base game and old DLC gear does not make this event worth running, for many people. While I'm one of the rare people who still uses Briarheart (in a solo build), it's easy enough to get as it is (esp after the Wrothgar Extinction Event).

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

Please change it, so we don't have to regather the keys every time we want to run the dungeons (much less the trial). Getting people synched up is extremely difficult.

If this were to happen, everone would just run it solely with their guilds or rostered teams. The idea is to have us running with real Pug groups. If not, you really will be farming keys to have it that way. I like that people have to play outside of their groups/guilds/friend lists to do this event

Ugh, no. I tried for two hours to get a group together to do one of the dungeons. First, people would join who didn't understand the key system. Or had the keys for the wrong dungeon. Or who were the wrong role (we couldn't get group finder to let us Enforce Role Reqs and get the right role. I think this might be because we were crating the groups from within NM, but I hope it was a random bug, because having to create group finders outside NM would be a major pain), or who couldn't do their role and get the clear.
And who said anything about the purpose of the event to be PUGs? Grouping, yes. PUGs? No. Not the point. Convenient for many things, but not everything.

AmishDefector · May 3

Honestly really fun. Im not sure what everyone is complaining about. Group as a tank, a healer and 1-2dps, ideally one of which that has cleave (not a lightning heavy attack build, or a runeblades spam). We've been able to 3 person most bosses 4 makes it smooth.

I am concerned about the number of instances tanking game performance server wide and would agree that adding a few more people with each instance would help with dead zones, and maybe improve performance, and help all these solo MMO players complaining about the difficulty.

Baldagrim · May 3

I know I might be beating a dead horse at this time with over 22 pages of comments/feedback. But I've got to give my two cents as well.

I wish I could love the Night Market. It is an interesting idea, a limited event to get people engaged with PVE content. But after three days playing with it, it needs some major changes.

1) The obvious one that most people seem to be in agreement with: Lowering the Difficulty. Regular mobs should be solo difficulty. With 20+ years of playing MMOs, I can tell you people don't like to group up just to defeat mobs. As one of my professors said about the subject: "If you're worried your game's difficulty going so high, go solo."

2) Side quests in the three areas need to have one location they can be given. I don't want to scour the maps looking for these quests, which feel very much like busywork. It's a QoL change I'd like to see that would be easy to implement.

3) This one is more a personal gripe, but Mounts...please let us use mounts if not in the precincts, at least in the hub area. I know why they are locked out of certain areas, but would be a real time saver in others.

In conclusion, this was the time for the new directors to come out swinging, showing the community they care and working hard to make the game better. I thought after all these years, the "Fear Player Power Creep" doctrine was behind us. But right now from the recent actions of this new team, from where I'm sitting, it feels like New Blood, Same Old Business.

Anyway, thank you for reading this. Sorry if it got jaded there at the end, but I've been playing ESO for most of the ten years since beta and I...wanted the game to better for everyone, not just me. I might be missing a few issues here and there, but you get the idea. Again, thanks and have a good day/night.

Parasaurolophus · May 3

Baldagrim wrote: »

I know I might be beating a dead horse at this time with over 22 pages of comments/feedback. But I've got to give my two cents as well.

I wish I could love the Night Market. It is an interesting idea, a limited event to get people engaged with PVE content. But after three days playing with it, it needs some major changes.

1) The obvious one that most people seem to be in agreement with: Lowering the Difficulty. Regular mobs should be solo difficulty. With 20+ years of playing MMOs, I can tell you people don't like to group up just to defeat mobs. As one of my professors said about the subject: "If you're worried your game's difficulty going so high, go solo."

2) Side quests in the three areas need to have one location they can be given. I don't want to scour the maps looking for these quests, which feel very much like busywork. It's a QoL change I'd like to see that would be easy to implement.

3) This one is more a personal gripe, but Mounts...please let us use mounts if not in the precincts, at least in the hub area. I know why they are locked out of certain areas, but would be a real time saver in others.

In conclusion, this was the time for the new directors to come out swinging, showing the community they care and working hard to make the game better. I thought after all these years, the "Fear Player Power Creep" doctrine was behind us. But right now from the recent actions of this new team, from where I'm sitting, it feels like New Blood, Same Old Business.

Anyway, thank you for reading this. Sorry if it got jaded there at the end, but I've been playing ESO for most of the ten years since beta and I...wanted the game to better for everyone, not just me. I might be missing a few issues here and there, but you get the idea. Again, thanks and have a good day/night.

Where did you get the idea that the majority wants a reduction in difficulty? Do you have any statistics?

Orbital78 · May 3

Why are faceted mini bosses so rare? I have yet to see more than one

Syldras · May 3

Fifth evening.

Finally got the first relic. Unlocked the vermin room - great place to keep my prisoners, thank you!

I've created several group finder groups this evening, with varying success. Sometimes it works well, other times it's utter chaos, people run around who knows where without aim, don't seem to read group chat or look at the map so see where their fellow group members even are.

A real disappointment and problem was today's last attempt, though. We were just three people waiting at an active skirmish (enemy npcs had spawned), so I opened a group searching for more people to join. It took a while for the group to fill - it wasn't even full when suddenly the skirmish just disappeared! Obviously, when someone said in chat that skirmishes only spawn every 30 minutes, the first players were already leaving the group again (I had suggested farming bosses instead until the next skirmish starts, but still). And I fully understand that. It was later in the evening and not everyone has time to idle around for half an hour if they maybe just wanted to do another skirmish before logging off.

Well, we went boss killing a bit then, the group kept shrinking, someone suggested dissolving the group and opening a new one in the finder so we get more people. I was about to do that - then my game crashed. And that's how today's evening ended for me.

I really wonder why the skirmishes just disappear on their own after a while?! Which purpose does that serve? I can tell many group members were really, really frustrated!

Elvenheart · May 3

I’m disappointed mainly because in the Twitch streams while ZOS said grouping helps it isn’t required because a solo player can enter the Market and tag along with groups and make progress that way. While that is technically true, with the low player caps it turns out there’s a very low chance of being able to play that way.

shadoza · May 3

Randyfoxie wrote: »

Locking new content behind mandatory groups shuts out players who work. That’s not good design. Good MMO design respects different playstyles. This feels like it forgot solo players exist.

I believe they didn't forget solo players exist. I believe they want them to convert to groupies or leave the game. It would have been easy to place a difficulty scale on this, but ZOS clearly stated that they were meaning to require grouping for this event.

Finedaible · May 3

Orbital78 wrote: »

Why are faceted mini bosses so rare? I have yet to see more than one

I saw one Faceted Hag in the Skittering District on day 1, but have not found a single one since then. I assume it's another bug or they are just really that rare.

code65536 · May 3

shadoza wrote: »

Randyfoxie wrote: »

Locking new content behind mandatory groups shuts out players who work. That’s not good design. Good MMO design respects different playstyles. This feels like it forgot solo players exist.

I believe they didn't forget solo players exist. I believe they want them to convert to groupies or leave the game. It would have been easy to place a difficulty scale on this, but ZOS clearly stated that they were meaning to require grouping for this event.

Question: you've been vocal about how much you as a solo player hate the Night Market ever since PTS, so I have to ask, do you also say stuff like this every time we get a dungeon DLC? Because those are definitely not for solo players too.

The game has a wide variety of players, so it's impossible for every piece of content to make everyone happy. I didn't like Tales of Tribute. I dislike the entire companion system. But even though I dislike them, I know that there are players who do like them, and I'm not going to get mad at ZOS for making something for those players. I ignore those parts of the game. So, if you hate the Night Market, why not just ignore it too?

(For the record, I'd much rather have a dungeon DLC than the Night Market.)

daemondamian · May 3

code65536 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Randyfoxie wrote: »

Locking new content behind mandatory groups shuts out players who work. That’s not good design. Good MMO design respects different playstyles. This feels like it forgot solo players exist.

I believe they didn't forget solo players exist. I believe they want them to convert to groupies or leave the game. It would have been easy to place a difficulty scale on this, but ZOS clearly stated that they were meaning to require grouping for this event.

Question: you've been vocal about how much you as a solo player hate the Night Market ever since PTS, so I have to ask, do you also say stuff like this every time we get a dungeon DLC? Because those are definitely not for solo players too.

The game has a wide variety of players, so it's impossible for every piece of content to make everyone happy. I didn't like Tales of Tribute. I dislike the entire companion system. But even though I dislike them, I know that there are players who do like them, and I'm not going to get mad at ZOS for making something for those players. I ignore those parts of the game. So, if you hate the Night Market, why not just ignore it too?

(For the record, I'd much rather have a dungeon DLC than the Night Market.)

I'm not offering an opinion on whether the difficulty of NM is too high or impossible or intended for solo players but dlc dungeons on normal are soloable unless there's mechanics requiring more than one player.

Trash mobs in NM can be soloed but bosses need grouping (for most people). Some quests can be soloed if you're stealth & can bypass enemies. Dunegorger(?) can be soloed though for me it took a long time of dying & coming back multiple times & also it is easier in that you only have to deal with/kill what's inside it.

jad11mumbler · May 4

Not sure why theres so much "controversy" about this event zone.

Its as advertised, a difficult group zone.

Solo players are upset that the content not aimed for them....Isn't aimed at them?

There's some legitimate issues with the night market but this aint one of them.

I hope ZoS ignores those players and keeps the night market as it was intended.

As a group zone with some challenge.

Hopefully those players also eventually realise how fun it can be to group up with other players, join guilds and all the wonders of a MMO.
Either way, night market should remain as the group zone it was intended to be for this event.

It's wild that so much of this games community, for a MMO, has turned into "Playing as a group??? Thats only for the elitist 1%!!!"

Freelancer_ESO · May 4

My view of the content overall hasn't really changed from the PTS. The main hub is quite cool but, I don't really enjoy the content and I hope we don't see much more of this style of content.

Ignoring all that some potential issues that might be possible to improve:

The incentives kinda drop off once you've got around 2-3k until you hit like 10k and then it doesn't really matter.

I'm not sure the rewards for the dungeon/trial are really worth the grind to access if you have already done them a few times.

Soarora · May 4

Feedback #5.5 because it's a small one that's kinda an addition to one I had said earlier about the gear drops...

Instead of overland + nondlc dungeon + craglorn gear, can overland be dropped and have it be dlc dungeon + trial gear (maybe even some pvp gear?)? It connected in my mind that this would be a great opportunity to get gear since otherwise you have to run one trial/dungeon so many times that it can get obscene. I haven't finished most of my trial collections and I know people have complained about farming dlc dungeons (such as lair of maarselok).

irswat · May 4

Night market is cool, but there are some peculiar performance issues including big fps drops I don't get anywhere else except near certain way shrines.

Taarente · May 4

Syldras wrote: »

I still find exploring the areas and completing achievements fun, but if one considers this content narratively, it just leads to many questions:
- Who has installed those spider-shooting things that remind of a travelling carnival or arcade game?
- Why are boulders rolling around and why do they need to be directed?
- Why does one get a reward for crouching through some random short tunnel?
- Why does a faction about collecting wealth, or ruling the Market through force, give quests to crouch through these tunnels because they consider that as increasing their reputation?
- Why does a faction about collecting secrets give dailies about randomly killing enemies?
- Why do all three factions, which are depicted as valueing completely different things and having different goals, all give the same tasks anyway?

Yes, I know, "ever-changing mysterious daedric realm", but it somehow just feels random.

It’s just another arena that would like to pretend it’s not.

MidnightDuel · May 4

What happens AFTER the Night Market ends?

Where will the entrance to the Night's Den house be located? Will players be able to exit the house in Fargrave when the Market is gone? Will there be an entrace somewhere in Fargrave?
While the completed-codex Antiquities from the night market are purchasable from the Coldharbour Achievement Furnisher, what happens with the Faction Merchant items? Will faction items unlocked during the event with favor still be purchasable somewhere else in game after the market closes? Or will players need to stock up on any of those furnishings during the event or be locked out?

Syldras · May 4

Taarente wrote: »

It’s just another arena that would like to pretend it’s not.

I'd rather have less background story than one that makes no sense.

Though the strangest thing is they could actually have easily designed this in a way that makes a little more sense, at least when it comes to the faction ideas, just by not forcing the player to join a specific faction, but instead give every faction some specific zone and quest types that fit their identity, and then let the player freely choose every day which ones they want to do or not.

Ravynmagi · May 4

I'm a casual player of several years. I'm one of those weirdos that don't group. And I've managed to grind out 2500 favor with kill quests and stealthing around doing the daily gathering quests. It's a living.

I would enjoy doing more, but because of the small zone instance cap, I am basically playing a lottery with extremely low odds of popping into that rare instance that has players gathered together taking down bosses and skirmishes. I got lucky on my first day finding this unicorn instance where i got a couple skirmishes done and some bosses killed. And since this the instance lottery has been very much against me.

I see the promise of this zone and I really want to like it more. And the fix seems so simple. Let more players into an instance. I can't imagine 36 players is really all the game can handle. Hopefully this gets fixed to give casual groups a much better chance of forming.

The other issue I'm seeing is the rewards seem to kind of unexciting. I'm not sure what I'm even playing for. What I've seen isn't blowing me away. I'm working towards the 5000 favor to unlock the bank vault, that will be pretty nice. I haven't yet seen what unlocking the faction wings in the house looks like yet, so not sure if that is going to be something amazing or not. Nothing on the faction merchants looks worth a thousand deaths.

I'm grading this a B-. Under the right conditions it looks like a lot of fun. And I hope ZOS isn't done, and makes some adjustments for their weirdo casual player base that wants to get involved too.

Taarente · May 4

Syldras wrote: »

Taarente wrote: »

It’s just another arena that would like to pretend it’s not.

I'd rather have less background story than one that makes no sense.

Though the strangest thing is they could actually have easily designed this in a way that makes a little more sense, at least when it comes to the faction ideas, just by not forcing the player to join a specific faction, but instead give every faction some specific zone and quest types that fit their identity, and then let the player freely choose every day which ones they want to do or not.

Well I posted earlier in my own discussion that if there was at least an actual market to buy from it would make some sense that there is a place to visit, possibly a reason to support a faction. Although I'm not sure myself what control of the night market would actually mean, if there's nothing to actually control. At this point its just another way for ZOS to say we have created engagement. Unfortunately engagement is not the same as enjoyment.
Ironically being in one of the less supported factions means some faction only items i collect are actually quite valuable in guild traders. So I'm farming to add extra gold to my modest wealth.

Reverb · May 4

People have talked the combat and quest difficulty to death, for better or worse. I’d like to focus on how cool the design of the market itself is.

Fargrave has always been a unique area with a lot of potential, and it’s always been a shame that there’s no reason to go back there after finishing the quests. Now the NM brings a lot of that flavor with a lot of interest. It’s filled with weird little guys doing weird little things. Just going around the different faction bases and talking to the NPCs is a good time.

I’m having fun with the Night Market in general, and I appreciate the effort that went into putting it together.

heimdall14_9 · May 4

[Note: This feedback was compiled with the assistance of AI to organize my thoughts and suggestions.]

Subject: Night Market Feedback – Love the Difficulty, Need Better Utility and Progression

I wanted to share my thoughts on the Night Market. Overall, I’m actually really enjoying the difficulty level and the new mechanics. The new "tricks" and mini-games feel fresh and the challenge is exactly what I was looking for.

The Key System & Progression:
I like the concept of the key system, but it feels like it could use a "Master Key" progression path. My suggestion:

Once you complete the 1st Trial, you should no longer be required to do Argent tasks.

Once you complete the 2nd Trial, you shouldn't have to do Gilded tasks.
This would allow players to focus on the content they actually enjoy the most once they’ve proven they can handle the initial hurdles.

The Market Hub (Missed Opportunity):
The actual "Market" part of the zone feels underwhelming for what it should be. To make this a true social and economic hub, I’d love to see:

A full Trade Hub: 24 Guild Traders to make it a competitive alternative to Mournhold or Elden Root.

Complete Utility: A vendor of every single type (Banker, Decon, etc.) available in the main plaza.

New Bazaar Vendor: A dedicated vendor for the Bazaar with unique rotations.

Favor Point Vendor: A way to actually spend those Favor Points on tangible rewards, new vendor types, or collectibles.

The gameplay is solid, but the zone needs to feel like a functional "city" to keep us coming back once the novelty of the difficulty wears off.

marcbf · May 4

I don't believe any content in ESO has ever been as divise as the Night Market. Not even Tales of Tribute.

Personally, I'm firmly on the side of those who dislike it mainly due to its difficulty and requirement to group. Also, a lot of rewards just don't match the effort that needs to be put into getting them.

It's always hard, if not directly impossible, to please everyone. The question is whether or not the majority of players are okay with the content as is or if it's just a very vocal minority. Akin to the whole overland difficulty discussion.

sleepy_worm · May 4

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I'm not combing through this entire thread to check. Sorry!

If you are resurrecting when the skirmish completes, you don't get credit. No chest, nothing. It's better to stay dead when the boss is close to 0% and wait to rez until the chest spawns.

I hope ZOS changes this, because it feels like a mistake. Anyway, happy hunting out there. Get that loot.

Arvellion · May 4

Problem isn't group content or pvp in general. I can see, that those player also want something new and cool.

Problem is ZOS developer team is too small to serve all the different play-styles in an adequate amount of time.

So you want me - die-hard single player - to pay for ESO-Plus and season pass without delivering me any new content for my preferred play style, which would be another new epic main story and quest area worth to explore in my spare free time.
Well, that's not gonna happen.

My ESO-Plus runs out in May and it looks like I'm not continuing it after many years of paying for ESO Plus and Crown Store items.

Making content that not most customers can or want to participate in, might not have been your best idea.