U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf

Wuuffyy · May 1

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

I just don't believe you, friend. I'm sure you can understand why. You've presented in a very elitist fashion that seems to be self-serving in the sense that you focused on preserving 2-bar superiority. You clearly don't like werewolf and most of your feedback has been calling for nerfs rather than requesting changes to make it well rounded and well performing.

This is an understatement. DK was at that height of its power (and still is compared to EVERYONE else) and here he is praising it and acknowledging that ‘it may need to be brought up when other specs are reworked’ and that ‘the point of the rework is to make each reworked spec as strong as the next’.

React wrote: »

I think the team did an absolutely amazing job with this rework. The class feels powerful, the toolkit feels fluid and intuitive, and most of all - It incentivizes you to play pure class very well. This is EXACTLY what the goal should be for every class - making them all "OP" in their own ways, so they feel good to play and so that subclassing is no longer "meta" in the majority of situations.
From the PVP perspective, it does worry me that you're suggesting the class is not strong enough yet, and needs even MORE power. Perhaps that might be true when the other classes get their reworks, if the DK happens to fall behind at that point in time. As it stands now, the DK on the PTS is undoubtedly the king of PVP. This isn't a bad thing - as I keep mentioning, the reworked classes pretty much should all be stronger than the pre-rework classes, in order to achieve the aforementioned goals. But perhaps be careful when considering further buffs to the class, as we wouldn't want them to later necessitate nerfs that might harm the long term goals for the reworks overall.
It is going to be a tough year though, because the reworked classes will inevitably stronger than the base game classes, which is going to lead to an enormous amount of frustration from people who do not play the reworked classes. I think overall it is just important to keep the end goal in mind - making the classes strong, and making pureclassing better than subclassing for most scenarios.

Found here (first point, all the way from Jan): https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/687702/update-49-pts-week-1-summary/p1

Yet all he can say is: yeah, werewolf can’t be good or close because 1 bar. Yet it has less damage in its toolkit than live and doesn’t even have a single burst move. Yeah, totally positive there is ABSOLUTELY no bias with this person. Please ONLY listen to this person ZOS like you ALREADY have been.

Wow, am I frustrated as a long-term werewolf player? Oh man, I wonder why.

coop500 · May 1

You guys truly won't be happy until we're worse than Live, huh? Because that's where we're heading.

11 *** years and we can never ever be good, just because of people like this.

autocookies · May 1

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Instead, give it its own WW Masteries.

And make it a toggle while we're at it. The ult-gen minigame is tedious and adds nothing of value to gameplay.

I like both the WW masteries and the toggle. I just hope the werewolf is competitive and stays competitive.

Fenrir_Legacy · May 1

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

React wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

If the real player stands there face tanking like React does, he will.

No reason to sit here making blatantly false statements. Seems to be a lot of attacks on my character or the integrity of the testing I've provided going on.

Every single CMX I've provided apart from one single CMX weeks ago where static acted as a parse dummy (which was disclosed at the time of posting) has been from proper duels complete with healing, blocking, rolling, kiting, stuns, attempts to outspace and pressure back, etc.

There aren't any attempts to deceive or manipulate with any of the data provided. We're putting on realistic PVP builds and fighting normally. In my case since the EU copy on week 3, I've actually been using my live PC EU character to fight the WWs - the build I run every day for solo PVP in cyrodiil/IC.

I just don't believe you, friend. I'm sure you can understand why. You've presented in a very elitist fashion that seems to be self-serving in the sense that you focused on preserving 2-bar superiority. You clearly don't like werewolf and most of your feedback has been calling for nerfs rather than requesting changes to make it well rounded and well performing.

Essentially werewolf has had a 20 to 30 percent nerf for pvp compared to live. Due to loss of passives granted by abilities mostly. The loss of speed, disease damage, attack speed ect. Not to mention the tool tips on the abilities are almost half of what mine are on live. Gnashing does about 7k damage. The current howl that gnashing replaces does 11 to 12k. Ive lost roughly 8k worth of heals on hircines fortitude, basically 1/3.

Also I wouldn't bother engaging with anyone here that doesn't play Werewolf like we do. They are almost always disingenuous about Werewolf. Likely due to dealing with us in ic and cyrodil over the years. If you can't beat a werewolf in a duel on a subclassed human youre doing something wrong. Especially in a duel. The average pvpr should be able to take a werewolf out with relative ease in the games current and pts state. I get hit for 20k plus damage on live servers with whips by dks with almost 33k resist and pariah on. Sometimes 20k plus by nightblades as well. Getting 2 shot with 44k hp lol. Its not just desync either.

coop500 · May 1

The only reason I'm speaking out is honestly to the devs, they need to wake up and see that most of this is out of malice and hate for werewolf players, either for it's one bar playset (we didn't choose this BTW, not like Oakensoul), because we're 'filthy furries who should never have fun' or simply because that one brief time when werewolf was strong in smallscale PvP like 6 years ago now.

But they don't care, nobody cares, there's too few of us, we'll fall back into obscurity and the meta people will carry on as usual while we're reluctantly stuck not playing WW in harder content so we don't gimp our team.

Wuuffyy · May 1

Dracane wrote: »

It's also interesting how the whole narrative crumbles one week at a time. First week it was only Sorc masteries being viable/broken, but actually also DK.

It’s funny how your own boy was the first to come in this thread and say that with no CMX and the later pulled a CMX with no actual information (this is were this thread massively devolved) on his passives or opponent so we could only guess where the next item he’d place blame was->

React wrote: »

Is it intended that class mastery passives work while transformed?

There are currently werewolves on the PTS who are doing upwards of 10k PVP DPS by taking advantage of certain class mastery passives while in werewolf form. To be clear - they're currently pushing almost double the highest PVP DPS that the top PVP builds were capable of pushing before, while using only one bar worth of abilities. That is a number nothing has achieved in PVP before, not even the recently reworked DK.

Seems a little insane to me.

That’s page 2 by the way.

I have definitive proof that damage is weaker around the board for werewolf here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692088/live-vs-pts-werewolf-tooltip-comparison-majority-nerfs-for-pvp-proof-provided#latest

Not even Major Berserk active at all times with PTS werewolf can hold a candle to anything but healing while attacking for live werewolf (and as a result we have a SIGNIFICANT nerf to our main heal’s tooltip… the only one we can actively use and count on while moving about)

I have no words. Y’all are so annoyed at the thought of werewolf being meta for the next 3 months before the upcoming class rework or 1 bar or this/that so the ONLY thing you can talk about despite werewolf’s kit being certainly more underpowered than live is how exploitable you can make it.

Signet parses weren’t even identified except for the fact that it demonstrates ‘out of kit’ status effects for werewolf. You and your people literally get together on PTS, say ‘hey what’s the most broken thing we can get our hands on right now for werewolf???’, duel someone with who knows what for resistances+ protections and then come back here and say ‘hey, yeah, werewolf still needs nerfs across the board’.

Above me within the last several pages, I have provided suggestion after suggestion of how to curb these fringe interactions while also providing love to the base kit itself and its always shot down with ‘but here’s another parse 0.o’.

Wuuffyy · May 1

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Instead, give it its own WW Masteries.

And make it a toggle while we're at it. The ult-gen minigame is tedious and adds nothing of value to gameplay.

This is the singular first time I’ve seen you in here with anything but a straight ‘nerf werewolf, React=right’ comment. But alas, as you can clearly see despite anything you scour in this thread, they cannot do anything but nerf it. Side grading or adjusting power symmetrically isn’t allowed clearly if you’ve read any of the patch notes for this PTS.

You can clearly see how ZoS is ready to just shut this down and throw werewolf right back in the dumpster. Instead of screaming nerfs at them you can instead advocate for these balance shifts (who am I kidding, we’re entering week 4- it’s too late for that)

Dracane · May 1

Wuuffyy wrote: »

we’re entering week 4- it’s too late for that)

Is this truly so? They hinted are more happening in week 5 at least. Seems it's not ending so soon afterall.
I would definitely continue to provide feedback.

SlagasaurusRex · May 1

coop500 wrote: »

The only reason I'm speaking out is honestly to the devs, they need to wake up and see that most of this is out of malice and hate for werewolf players, either for it's one bar playset (we didn't choose this BTW, not like Oakensoul), because we're 'filthy furries who should never have fun' or simply because that one brief time when werewolf was strong in smallscale PvP like 6 years ago now.

But they don't care, nobody cares, there's too few of us, we'll fall back into obscurity and the meta people will carry on as usual while we're reluctantly stuck not playing WW in harder content so we don't gimp our team.

The notion that this is out of malice is truly insane. Its impossible to have a reasonable discussion about balance and feedback with people who, a priori, are convinced I'm being disingenuous. I have no words. I wish you guys the best.

Wuuffyy · May 1

SlagasaurusRex wrote: »

The notion that this is out of malice is truly insane. I have no more words. Its impossible to have a reasonable discussion about balance and feedback with people who a priori are convinced I'm being disingenuous. I have no words. I wish you guys the best.

Is it though? My brother React dropped into the forums after not POSTING for DAYS at the site of ‘here’s my proof that werewolf is underperforming in-kit’, dropped a ‘dot’ for a comment right under my post, and edited it all within 20 minutes of me posting just to come and say: ‘em-hem, everything I say is right and everything you said is wrong’… and then watching the same from others I have also not seen for some time just trickle in within the next hour to parrot his exact phrasing.

I mean if you read above my tidbit for that individual you can clearly see at-least the hypocrisy in how he approaches werewolf balance versus any other rework spec.

Any time, anyone of any caliber makes any point their response is ‘but em-hem, werewolf can’t be good because it’s one bar and one-bar cannot compete… also, here’s another broken interaction with me in a duel using class masteries, Signet mythic, health stacking with armor pots (none of this is ever relayed, you have to understand to know… which is borderline testing in bad faith), and no info on who or what I’m parsing on in terms of anything but player name…’ ‘…anyways, I have else nothing to say- just make sure you nerf werewolf as a whole m’kay; no positive changes should be on the table’.

That isn’t malicious even a teency weency bit to you?

YandereGirlfriend · May 1

Wuuffyy wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Instead, give it its own WW Masteries.

And make it a toggle while we're at it. The ult-gen minigame is tedious and adds nothing of value to gameplay.

This is the singular first time I’ve seen you in here with anything but a straight ‘nerf werewolf, React=right’ comment. But alas, as you can clearly see despite anything you scour in this thread, they cannot do anything but nerf it. Side grading or adjusting power symmetrically isn’t allowed clearly if you’ve read any of the patch notes for this PTS.

You can clearly see how ZoS is ready to just shut this down and throw werewolf right back in the dumpster. Instead of screaming nerfs at them you can instead advocate for these balance shifts (who am I kidding, we’re entering week 4- it’s too late for that)

I mean, I respect domain expertise and discount the takes of folk who only emote or post vibes.

React has been supremely patient and has brought the receipts to demonstrate how and why various facets of WW are overpowered. 50k HP and dealing that sort of damage is objectively busted. It also goes to show how difficult it is to balance WW while it still has all of these complicated interactions with other game systems, be that Class Masteries, Mythics, etc. I am not sure if it is possible to actually achieve.

Which is why it would be much easier for everyone involved to simply remove these unbalancable interactions and instead say: "This is a WW; it does discrete WW things; it does not touch other existing game systems". Then they can tune the WW traits to whatever is required to hit the sweet spot of balance.

Otherwise, it is going to be a revolving door of nerfing 3rd party targets due to the way that they interact with the WW kit. The problem is the interaction with WW. Hence the imperative to break those interactions and simplify the process of balancing.

Ataskir · May 1

SlagasaurusRex wrote: »

The notion that this is out of malice is truly insane. I have no more words. Its impossible to have a reasonable discussion about balance and feedback with people who a priori are convinced I'm being disingenuous. I have no words. I wish you guys the best.

Seems like an overreaction, especially if you know you haven’t been acting out of malice.

Werewolf players have been mocked repeatedly throughout this PTS cycle, notably from a few players who give their PTS characters names that are clearly intended to bait out passionate werewolf players. I won’t even get into what’s being said outside the forums, but I’m just letting you know why there’s a good reason to believe there’s an agenda going on here.

It’s just a nasty situation all around, and it would’ve been much better if we could’ve all stayed civilized and went through this balancing cooperatively. Alas, it all turned into a mess. Hircine wouldn’t be happy with this…

Wuuffyy · May 1

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I respect everyone’s opinion including those that don’t duel for a living. If anything, carry some of the same energy for the players that have been playing werewolf on live for a decade now who don’t have a vested interest it it being meta/not meta but rather are focused on ensuring viability.

Yandere, I speak from over a decade of experience. They will nerf the overpowering bullshnap and werewolf as its kit is now ~when you aren’t trying to break the game~ and werewolf after they implement their nerfs for those VERY UNHEALTHY interactions will be worse for the experience in every way but animations and form sustain out of combat.

It did no good to add 5,000 different major and minor buffs in kit other than ensuring I have yet another slot for a proc to cheese with. The vast majority of their buffs I get from oakensoul now and all of my tooltips are 20% lower on PTS or so across the board. I legitimately want them to gut this ridiculous health based healing because I WANT wep and spell damage scaling…

Who the fluff thought a werewolf rework would include MORE health scaling??? Most of us thought we’d have a proper, decent tooltip wep and spell damage option with a small hot attached for healing… not this.

YandereGirlfriend · May 1

Ataskir wrote: »

SlagasaurusRex wrote: »

The notion that this is out of malice is truly insane. I have no more words. Its impossible to have a reasonable discussion about balance and feedback with people who a priori are convinced I'm being disingenuous. I have no words. I wish you guys the best.

Seems like an overreaction, especially if you know you haven’t been acting out of malice.

Werewolf players have been mocked repeatedly throughout this PTS cycle, notably from a few players who give their PTS characters names that are clearly intended to bait out passionate werewolf players. I won’t even get into what’s being said outside the forums, but I’m just letting you know why there’s a good reason to believe there’s an agenda going on here.

It’s just a nasty situation all around, and it would’ve been much better if we could’ve all stayed civilized and went through this balancing cooperatively. Alas, it all turned into a mess. Hircine wouldn’t be happy with this…

If you believe that giving throwaway test characters meme names is unique to joking about WWs then I have some bad news for you. (FWIW, it doesn't mean that I like those names, either.) It is a practice as old as the PTS itself.

You can also find tons of current Live characters names joking about DK being overpowered, etc.. In the past, it was about Sorc, NB, whatever. It is like a PvP subcultural thing.

Wuuffyy · May 1

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

You can also find tons of current Live characters names joking about DK being overpowered, etc.. In the past, it was about Sorc, NB, whatever. It is like a PvP subcultural thing.

‘yeahblamesorcmastery’ totally has the same ring as ‘nightbladeop’ as if this is even remotely the only offense or hint that there’s more that meets the eye 0.o

coop500 · May 1

People may not realize this, but there IS indeed a huge quiet (until now) dislike for werewolves, either because people believe them to be furries (which the general public frowns upon) or because they're a one bar play style or IDK some people just hate werewolves as a concept because of Twilight or something. It goes beyond this game, it's deep and nasty.

And yes I've seen people with my own eyes celebrating getting (the furries) werewolf nerfed. I am not going to point fingers on who's legit and who has an agenda, but it's NOT crazy nor overreacting to say that some people DO have a weird hate agenda against werewolf for reasons outside of the game.

Ataskir · May 1

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

You can also find tons of current Live characters names joking about DK being overpowered, etc.. In the past, it was about Sorc, NB, whatever. It is like a PvP subcultural thing.

You know I’m not only talking about the PTS names, as if it was just than then yeah, funny stuff!

It’s also the gloating after the week three PTS changes from your camp, mentioning how “looks like the sorc community is stronger after all”. How could you see that as anything other than an agenda?

And hey, maybe you disagree with how they went about that, which is great and all, but I’m just showin’ ya why some of us in the ESO werewolf community feel this way.

Also if you’re wonderin’ what this has to do with PTS balancing as a whole, then I’ll say it’s hard to take feedback seriously if it’s tainted by disdain.

hoangdz · May 1

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

autocookies wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

huskandhunger wrote: »

Anyone can slap on high health and still have damage, even non-werewolf users. And yes they too will die much the same, see we are actually in agreement 🤝

? Nobody on the live server can slap on 50k HP and do 8-9k DPS. You wanna bet 10 mil gold on it?

Easy 20k first try hardest part was getting 50k health.

Now do that on a real player instead of an NPC

If the real player stands there face tanking like React does, he will.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

React wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

If the real player stands there face tanking like React does, he will.

No reason to sit here making blatantly false statements. Seems to be a lot of attacks on my character or the integrity of the testing I've provided going on.

Every single CMX I've provided apart from one single CMX weeks ago where static acted as a parse dummy (which was disclosed at the time of posting) has been from proper duels complete with healing, blocking, rolling, kiting, stuns, attempts to outspace and pressure back, etc.

There aren't any attempts to deceive or manipulate with any of the data provided. We're putting on realistic PVP builds and fighting normally. In my case since the EU copy on week 3, I've actually been using my live PC EU character to fight the WWs - the build I run every day for solo PVP in cyrodiil/IC.

You are NOT doing 10k DPS on werewolf to a person (“with max resistances”) doing these things. ~even if I could it doesn’t truly matter as I have absolutely no burst and my whole kit is purgeable~ And if you are, it’s because of sorc mastery and/Signet which you and I both know will be nerfed into the group and werewolf will be left as is.

You are ridiculously disingenuous but I suppose I can only direct my frustration towards the combat team/feedback handling as it seems that they are only ever able to see the feedback to nerf werewolf but not buff it or sidegrade it.

Just show up to Riften on PTS and duel Pelican. Anybody can talk

hoangdz · May 1

Dracane wrote: »

It's also interesting how the whole narrative crumbles one week at a time. First week it was only Sorc masteries being viable/broken, but actually also DK. 2nd week it came to light that it is also broken with Warden. Now it comes to light it's also broken with Nightblade.

Maybe just maybe it's not the class masteries but something else. At least it doesn't mean that class masteries should get nerfed just to keep Werewolf in balance. But deactivating them entirely might also not be great.

The goal post keeps getting moved one day after another. Hopefully ZOS listens to the right side.

hoangdz · May 1

Wuuffyy wrote: »

SlagasaurusRex wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

You are NOT doing 10k DPS on werewolf to a person (“with max resistance” doing these things. And if you are, it’s because of sorc mastery and/Signet which you and I both know will be nerfed into the group and werewolf will be left as is. You are ridiculously disingenuous but I suppose I can only direct my frustration towards the combat team/feedback handling as it seems that they are only ever able to see the feedback to nerf werewolf but not buff it.

And yet, that is what is occurring. React posted screenshots without sorc mastery passives and yet you still insist that he is being purposefully deceptive. I don't know how to convince you that I and others are being fully earnest here. Well-known players with sterling reputations in the PC NA PVP community (who I have a deep respect for and have fought upwards of a thousand times) with the best defensive gameplay (block-casting timing/movement/rotations) are getting parsed for outrageous numbers on PTS right now. The insistence that this is somehow a grand conspiracy of players specifically biased against werewolf for some reason is uncharitable and unproductive.

No it isn’t. You aren’t moving around in these screenshots or showing me a single thing your opponent about your opponent. Actually come to reality and stop acting like that
nonsense CMX parse is showing me a single thing about what’s happening in the fight or what your enemy is wearing.

This is all one big joke. The reworked werewolf is quite literally, provably weaker in a majority of ways… but hey at least React Faster and friends can 1 v 1 on PTS with high health, a busted mythic, busted class masteries and claim all of “werewolf OP”… couldn’t even test in Cyro because vengeance campaign…

I’m just over it. Way to drop the ball ZoS

Lol, Pelican literally posted an 18 minute long video fighting actual players and your WW crew shrugged it off. Just face it, you are running out of ammo. Pelican has already moved on to Warden WW and eventually other classes too, dominating regular builds of course, and you would still try to convince yourself that the class is fine.

hoangdz · May 1

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

React wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

If the real player stands there face tanking like React does, he will.

No reason to sit here making blatantly false statements. Seems to be a lot of attacks on my character or the integrity of the testing I've provided going on.

Every single CMX I've provided apart from one single CMX weeks ago where static acted as a parse dummy (which was disclosed at the time of posting) has been from proper duels complete with healing, blocking, rolling, kiting, stuns, attempts to outspace and pressure back, etc.

There aren't any attempts to deceive or manipulate with any of the data provided. We're putting on realistic PVP builds and fighting normally. In my case since the EU copy on week 3, I've actually been using my live PC EU character to fight the WWs - the build I run every day for solo PVP in cyrodiil/IC.

I just don't believe you, friend. I'm sure you can understand why. You've presented in a very elitist fashion that seems to be self-serving in the sense that you focused on preserving 2-bar superiority. You clearly don't like werewolf and most of your feedback has been calling for nerfs rather than requesting changes to make it well rounded and well performing.

What's wrong with calling for nerfs to something overperforming?

Wuuffyy · May 1

The person above me is absolutely trying to bait y'all (which, I mean I don't understand why as you've 'won' so why???). I just wanted everyone to know this is what obvious bait looks like. They can scroll through the thread, there are numerous suggestions and evidence stating the opposite of what they're saying but they instead just ~don't~ and then proceed to tag 4 people. Just absolutely grotesque behavior I will not be dishonest. It becomes very tiring at a point.

Ataskir · May 1

Well yeah, anyone can see that! At least make it a little less obvious.

Anyway increase the weapon damage buff back to what it’s like on live at the very least, having it be lower seems pretty contradictory to the goal of improving werewolf.

Oh, and don’t disable the use of masteries, that would kill what little build diversity werewolf has. Not to mention it would be pretty wacky to remove something so highly advertised on U50 for werewolves, yes?

Erickson9610 · May 2

Ataskir wrote: »

Well yeah, anyone can see that! At least make it a little less obvious.

Anyway increase the weapon damage buff back to what it’s like on live at the very least, having it be lower seems pretty contradictory to the goal of improving werewolf.

Oh, and don’t disable the use of masteries, that would kill what little build diversity werewolf has. Not to mention it would be pretty wacky to remove something so highly advertised on U50 for werewolves, yes?

I'm still reminded of Skill Scrolls being the shiny new thing of Update 49, and how we were just told that we weren't actually supposed to be able to use them.

Ataskir · May 2

Many such limitations with werewolf!

hoangdz · May 2

Wuuffyy wrote: »

The person above me is absolutely trying to bait y'all (which, I mean I don't understand why as you've 'won' so why???). I just wanted everyone to know this is what obvious bait looks like. They can scroll through the thread, there are numerous suggestions and evidence stating the opposite of what they're saying but they instead just ~don't~ and then proceed to tag 4 people. Just absolutely grotesque behavior I will not be dishonest. It becomes very tiring at a point.

The only types of evidence worth a damn are CMX data and gameplay clips. In the context of this discussion, it’s PvP CMX screenshots and recordings of real fights. Until you have provided those, it would be hard for people to trust your opinion.

hoangdz · May 2

This was a fight between me and Pelican. Add those numbers up and tell me if WW doesn't have "burst".

Panderbander · May 2

Someone needs to archive this thread for when the inevitable 10k warden pvp (duel) parses come through and everyone here calling werewolf OP begins praising warden as the team doing "an absolutely amazing job with this rework", as stated about DK by one of the agitators here.

Not that it will make a difference for werewolf, but it will prove the hypocrisy.

hoangdz · May 2

Another duel vs Pelican, here were my resists:

and CP mitigation:

plus Major + Minor Protection:

and unnamed 5% mitigation:

I took 18 instances of damage in 1 second, totalling 18244 damage. Who here said WW doesn't have burst?

Wuuffyy · May 2

hoangdz wrote: »

I'll bite.

Status effects and a proc set are the majority of your damage here. A handful of status effects are doing more damage than your spammable, and not simply sundered.

Werewolf kit is not equaled to overtuned mythic (Signet; will most likely be nerfed unrelated to werewolf- they're already asking for it; werewolf simply exploits it very well).

Werewolf kit is not equaled to proc sets

Werewolf kit is not equaled to class masteries (again, we never see the whole picture with these but I legitimately believe that is fully intentional on your part).

Oh, and DPS does not mean burst

Have a good night my wonderful man-under-bridge! Try and get some sleep, it's like 2am in the morning here.