NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

I don’t get the nerfs for nightblade masteries in PVP specifically. Who actually thinks nightblades overperform in PvP? You have dk whips dealing the same damage as bow procs, necros with unlimited stamina-health sustain, sorcs with overpowered masteries and yet nightblade gets the nerfs? The class with already the worst class masteries for PVP?

What is wrong with Whips being on par with Bowproc? One is melee and the other is ranged.

This sort of bias that only NBs are allowed to have high burst makes me tune-out these conversations.

NB has been subclassed in every PvP metabuild since forever so we should not pretend that they are hurting the same as, say, Necromancer has been.

What's your point? Bow being ranged is a massive disadvantage, this is the only reason mericless is soo bad. Because it's ranged you can't hit it after incap and will always be dodged, but whip is guaranteed after leap or db. NB is a melee class, you can't realy take advantage of it anyway. Incap is melee, fear is melee, your spammable is melee, axes are melee, bow only heals in melee...

"NB has been subclassed in every PvP metabuild" - no. Assassination was tier 3 skill line and far from must have unlike tier 1 lines(storm/restoring) and tier 2 lines(grave/animal)

I have to agree with @YandereGirlfriend on this one. I'm watching the lions share of builds run to Assassination for subclassing, honestly, seeing that as one of the top 2 choices (between Animal Companions & Assassination).

Most grab Assassin for Surprise Attack and Merciless Resolve specifically, because they perform so well.

Merciless isn't a range only skill and bow being a ranged attack and having issues I don't disagree with but that's not a NB specific issue nor does it have anything to do with Merciless.

Merciless has been one of the strongest performers in PvP since subclassing.

The majority of what I've seen for Subclassing is: Assassination, Animal Companion, & Aedric Spear. .. Storm Calling would be a solid 4th. This was only further amplified after the DK refresh where anyone who wanted to subclass Flame Lash would also grab either Surprise Attack or Toppling Charge to better proc Power Lash with as max uptime as possible.

How is merciless being ranged isn't a NB issue? It's NB's skill, and it being ranged is NB's core problem. If it was a melee skill NB would be miles stronger

Merciless isn't a ranged skill per se. It's not melee in the sense that it's not physical damage or a physical attack but it provides a significant health restore if used within melee range which is incredibly easy to do for most melee builds, especially those running dual wield.

You don't have to cast Merciless from a distance and it provides an incentive to synergize the skill with melee play styles. Merciless isn't "ranged" in the bow sense where you really only want to use it at considerable range.

Merciless executes it's function blisteringly quick. There are so many sources of CC in the game now, thanks to subclassing that applying a hard CC followed by Merciless is common and easy.

I admit that Merciless synergizes much better with subclassed builds than it does with pure NB but that's true for basically any class and skill at this point.

Merciless being an instant application that can scale to 15k to 20k damage, after resistances, it's hard to make a case for this skill being a poor performer; especially when it's so consistently slotted in PvP now.

If you want bad skills go slot Sorcs. Mostly redundant utility and no burst. The Sorcs dueling in Riften on PTS are mostly leaning on the Signet mythic to buff Overcharged with big pools while sitting behind shields. .. The funny part is that's not a Sorc-specific thing. Any class could do that very same thing, DKs could use that to jack Burning way up, but they don't need to. They have competitive skills.

The NB passives do need a bump up and the BS condition removed. Merciless though, that's a popular skill for good reason.

This is curious to me. Could you explain the thing with buffing Overcharged more? This never occured to me as anything worth looking out for. And Sorc also only has 2 skills that even do, very infrequently, magic damage to proc Overcharged with.

You see, I am very confused what this all means. It makes no sense to me. This sounds like Sorc has some sort of affinity or broken interaction with magic damage/overcharged that I am unaware of.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

More specifically about the sustain part, let's say your main resource is stamina. A build without Dark Magic needs to use Orzoga sustain food and Sustained by Suffering CP for the extra 150 stam regen, along with whatever recovery ability that skill line has (normally Netch or Rune Focus). With Dark Magic, you can use Bewitched Sugar Skulls or a bi-stat food, which offer between 4.3k and 4.9k max stam. Most skills have a conversion ratio of 10.5 mag/stam = 1 wd/sd, meaning that by switching to a max attribute stat food you are essentially gaining an equivalent of 409 to 471 wd before modifiers. If you add the 6% max stam/mag from Undaunted and 10% from Blood Magic, you're gaining an extra 16% on top of that 4.3k - 4.9k stam, yielding a final converted value of 475 - 547 wd. This value does not appear on the passive descriptions, but requires knowledge in theorycrafting.

Yes and no.

This, in part, assumes a Stam Sorc .. but moreover this also assumes that the Sorc is at full health, otherwise, Blood Magic is providing the passive heal, not the increase to resource pool for the by proxy damage scaling.

In combat, a Sorc is going to be realizing the heal component of Blood Magic the vast majority of the time so I don't see this passive a meaningful source of a damage buff.

If we're talking about PvP then it's common knowledge that Stam based builds have light years worth of advantages over Mag based builds, but, since Sorc isn't inherently a Stam based class I don't think we're ready to just say that the damage shortfall with Sorc has been solved with these passives.

And now the Sorc passives will get nerfed, ensuring MagSorc remains light years behind, while StamSorc will still be able to abuse it just enough to be an annoyance.

StamSorc should have never happened.

Couldn't agree 1000x more. Even most of the "magsorcs" claiming to be magsorcs now on live are just glorified stamsorcs. It's ridiculous.

If its ok for sorcs to run 40k health and have infinite sustain and hps with conservation of energy. Then Sphere of influence should equally completely ignore battle spirit and remove the 25% health cap. The difference is so mind-boggling, yet there is nothing on the radar about this current reality. But we both know if it was even slightly just slightly reversed in a way that sorc shielding looked just a little bit "strong" there would be outrage and PANIC on these streets!

Completely oversaw your comment. You are right, there would be panic and widespred panic if MagSorc (true MagSorc, not StamSorcs having 1k more magicka than stam) would be more than viable again. We will see how it goes. I will definitely try it and see how far the good old magicka stacking gets me this time. Doing enough damage to burst someone competent will be the big challenge.

Dracane wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

I don’t get the nerfs for nightblade masteries in PVP specifically. Who actually thinks nightblades overperform in PvP? You have dk whips dealing the same damage as bow procs, necros with unlimited stamina-health sustain, sorcs with overpowered masteries and yet nightblade gets the nerfs? The class with already the worst class masteries for PVP?

What is wrong with Whips being on par with Bowproc? One is melee and the other is ranged.

This sort of bias that only NBs are allowed to have high burst makes me tune-out these conversations.

NB has been subclassed in every PvP metabuild since forever so we should not pretend that they are hurting the same as, say, Necromancer has been.

What's your point? Bow being ranged is a massive disadvantage, this is the only reason mericless is soo bad. Because it's ranged you can't hit it after incap and will always be dodged, but whip is guaranteed after leap or db. NB is a melee class, you can't realy take advantage of it anyway. Incap is melee, fear is melee, your spammable is melee, axes are melee, bow only heals in melee...

"NB has been subclassed in every PvP metabuild" - no. Assassination was tier 3 skill line and far from must have unlike tier 1 lines(storm/restoring) and tier 2 lines(grave/animal)

I have to agree with @YandereGirlfriend on this one. I'm watching the lions share of builds run to Assassination for subclassing, honestly, seeing that as one of the top 2 choices (between Animal Companions & Assassination).

Most grab Assassin for Surprise Attack and Merciless Resolve specifically, because they perform so well.

Merciless isn't a range only skill and bow being a ranged attack and having issues I don't disagree with but that's not a NB specific issue nor does it have anything to do with Merciless.

Merciless has been one of the strongest performers in PvP since subclassing.

The majority of what I've seen for Subclassing is: Assassination, Animal Companion, & Aedric Spear. .. Storm Calling would be a solid 4th. This was only further amplified after the DK refresh where anyone who wanted to subclass Flame Lash would also grab either Surprise Attack or Toppling Charge to better proc Power Lash with as max uptime as possible.

How is merciless being ranged isn't a NB issue? It's NB's skill, and it being ranged is NB's core problem. If it was a melee skill NB would be miles stronger

Merciless isn't a ranged skill per se. It's not melee in the sense that it's not physical damage or a physical attack but it provides a significant health restore if used within melee range which is incredibly easy to do for most melee builds, especially those running dual wield.

You don't have to cast Merciless from a distance and it provides an incentive to synergize the skill with melee play styles. Merciless isn't "ranged" in the bow sense where you really only want to use it at considerable range.

Merciless executes it's function blisteringly quick. There are so many sources of CC in the game now, thanks to subclassing that applying a hard CC followed by Merciless is common and easy.

I admit that Merciless synergizes much better with subclassed builds than it does with pure NB but that's true for basically any class and skill at this point.

Merciless being an instant application that can scale to 15k to 20k damage, after resistances, it's hard to make a case for this skill being a poor performer; especially when it's so consistently slotted in PvP now.

If you want bad skills go slot Sorcs. Mostly redundant utility and no burst. The Sorcs dueling in Riften on PTS are mostly leaning on the Signet mythic to buff Overcharged with big pools while sitting behind shields. .. The funny part is that's not a Sorc-specific thing. Any class could do that very same thing, DKs could use that to jack Burning way up, but they don't need to. They have competitive skills.

The NB passives do need a bump up and the BS condition removed. Merciless though, that's a popular skill for good reason.

This is curious to me. Could you explain the thing with buffing Overcharged more? This never occured to me as anything worth looking out for. And Sorc also only has 2 skills that even do, very infrequently, magic damage to proc Overcharged with.

You see, I am very confused what this all means. It makes no sense to me. This sounds like Sorc has some sort of affinity or broken interaction with magic damage/overcharged that I am unaware of.

Signet will buff the damage that status effects do based on how much Ulti you have. For Sorcs, especially those who use Power Overload, they can keep their Ult bank above 170 to 500 and still have access to Ult level output but not chop the damage buff Signet is providing.

Destro staff buffs status effect chance already so this means a Sorc slotting signet only needs to spam any skill that applies "magic" damage. This is on top of other sets and passives that can increase status effect chance and/or damage. So basically every 1 second a Sorc will have a buff-scaled passive direct damage effect combined with some sustain from Overcharge, by simply reapplying the status effect.

With Sorc that has a descent W/S + primary pool (which is all of them) a 170% scaling is big. Overcharge is one of the better options to do this with as it's a single application direct damage, not a DoT which means you can't cleanse the damage portion of the effect.

Mind you, this isn't a Sorc-only thing, any class could realistically do this, they wouldn't have the Overload option for Ulti, which I think makes it a more promising idea for Sorcs but really anyone could do this.

Class Mastery Perspective - Tanks & Healers v12.0.2

Did Class Mastery help in providing a meaningful boost to power for playing as a solo class?

Yes to an extent. Class Mastery definitely increases overall power and self-sufficiency, especially for damage-focused builds. It allows solo players to access buffs and utility that previously required group coordination, which feels good in open-world and solo content.

Do you feel this system helps in allowing for more player agency in a post subclassing play environment?

Partially. It does increase agency by letting players access impactful buffs like Major Force, extended Major Vulnerability, Major Heroism, Major Protection, and Major Berserk through their own kit. However, this same flexibility starts to blur role identity, especially in group content, where those effects were traditionally tied to support roles.

What are the things you like about Class Mastery?

It makes classes feel more complete and less dependent on others in solo play.
The power level of the passives feels impactful and noticeable.
It rewards active gameplay rather than passive stat boosts.
It aligns well with the freedom introduced by subclassing.

What places do you think could use improvement with Class Mastery?

Right now, many of these passives are not role-restricted, which creates a major issue for group balance:

Damage dealers can easily trigger effects like Major Force (Ink-Scribe’s Verve) through Reaving Blows CP self-healing or extend Major Vulnerability (Veil’s Forfeit). The support class mastery passives should be more tied to the healer or tank roles, a good example being Warden's Major Heroism class mastery passive which is focused on overhealing with a Green Balance (healing skill line) ability.
But, DPS are now able to access what were traditionally support-level buffs.
This reduces the necessity and identity of healers and tanks, because their unique contributions are no longer exclusive, especially with Werewolves now gaining Major Courage group-wide buffs, we need to reinforce healer and tank value in group composition and balance.

The result is a shift toward “everyone does everything,” which sounds good in theory but hurts group composition depth and role value in practice.

Suggested improvement:

Class Mastery should better reinforce role identity. For example:

Certain passives could scale more effectively when healing or shielding others rather than self.
Buffs like Major Force or Vulnerability extensions could require group-targeted actions or be less effective when self-procced.
Tie class mastery passives to traditional tanking/healing skill lines

Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?

This is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of power and engagement, but it needs refinement to avoid undermining group roles.

Right now, the system unintentionally incentivizes DPS builds to absorb support responsibilities, which leads to:

Less need for dedicated healers
Reduced tank/support identity
More homogenized gameplay

Class Mastery should enhance flexibility without erasing specialization. Healers and tanks should still feel essential, not optional.

From PVE perspective only…

Some classes need more than 2 mastery DPS damage “options”, since some of the DPS masteries are unappealing and/or want to tie you into how to play your class.

I already decided to drop my DK because the whip buff was rolled into Landslide (I dislike the stack loss feature), and was hoping that Necro was an option but here we go again...

Necromancer class mastery Nothing Wasted is similar to Landslide (both with whopping 20% done at max stacks), with even slower buildup if you don’t use Det Siphon spam to build stacks fast, and pretty much requires Det Siphon semi-spam in order to keep up the buff once it reaches full stacks (can’t let siphon run 20s) unless you are using Avid Boneyard (which uses a corpse), which you might not want to use in mobile fights (and if you want to use Unnerving Boneyard your only real option is Det Siphon semi-spam).

In many groups it will lose many stacks between add pulls, although half as fast as Landslide. I really want another option for those trials where I feel too punished by this stacking thing.

After this week's nerf to Sorc's Reverberation and Monolith, I feel it's more justified than ever to allow some quality of life improvements seeing as we're no longer the top single target DPS, nor can we claim top cleave.

Monolith of Storms:

• Needs a complete rework long term with a primary focus on stats and secondary focus on a cool, easy to use proc.. similar to most of the class sets we see this patch like Arie's Cry.
• Remove the 1s cooldown on spawns and allow 1 Monolith to deal aoe damage instead of waiting for a link, this feels like an easy last minute solution that could be implented before the PTS ends.
• Get rid of the 1st tick/5th tick nonsense; it could be any Storm Calling damage including Reverberation, but on a 2s cooldown, and function nearly identical. If you want to incentivize using abilities like Overload, Liquid Lightning, and Mages Wrath for DPS, make good abilities. A set shouldn't attempt to overcome their obvious shortcomings.

Static Reverberation:

• Despite the negativity, there's some positives to the 0.5s cooldown change which eliminates how powerful non Sorc spammables like Rapid Strikes could be. Long term, I hope Sorc gets more "multi hit" spammables because right now, it feels out of place and counter intuitive to class without any substantial dots.
• Original Implosion felt fun because we had 1s ticks on Lightning Form and 0.5s ticks on Lightning Splash. Bring some form of this back the same way you brought back 10s dots for DK. It also messed with Critical Surge.
• You've given it a 1% base chance, knock this up to 10% to 20%, so it's actually useable outside a dummy parse like in PvP where majority of fights stay on high health. To balance this out, you could add a % chance cap or start the 1% scaling later in a fight.
• This is a single target Mastery, every other major one I can think of works in aoe even if it's a single target monster like Templars 1500 damage done or DK's 12s dot. Where was this consideration? The 0.5s cooldown is fine, but allow it to be per target or deal damage in a 5m radius. This is an excellent opportunity to provide missing cleave, something Sorc desperately lacks, and since it's execute based, feels really similar to the concept of Mages Wrath where a low HP enemy helps you deal more damage to nearby enemies.
• Pets. I don't like them, but the nerf to chance at -50% for 1, and -66% for 2 is ridiculous. I understand trying to give no pet Sorc a leg up, they need it, but keep the chance the same at all times and instead lower the damage by like -10%, whatever keeps it equal.
• If for example, it didn't have a proc chance, and just increased in damage done by 3% per 1% missing HP below 50% HP up to +150% damage, each pet could lower this execute scaling by -0.5%. So many ways to handle it better.

All or some of these changes would go a long way and I hope they're considered for long term, and hopefully short term solutions.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

After this week's nerf to Sorc's Reverberation and Monolith, I feel it's more justified than ever to allow some quality of life improvements seeing as we're no longer the top single target DPS, nor can we claim top cleave.

Monolith of Storms:

• Needs a complete rework long term with a primary focus on stats and secondary focus on a cool, easy to use proc.. similar to most of the class sets we see this patch like Arie's Cry.
• Remove the 1s cooldown on spawns and allow 1 Monolith to deal aoe damage instead of waiting for a link, this feels like an easy last minute solution that could be implented before the PTS ends.
• Get rid of the 1st tick/5th tick nonsense; it could be any Storm Calling damage including Reverberation, but on a 2s cooldown, and function nearly identical. If you want to incentivize using abilities like Overload, Liquid Lightning, and Mages Wrath for DPS, make good abilities. A set shouldn't attempt to overcome their obvious shortcomings.

Static Reverberation:

• Despite the negativity, there's some positives to the 0.5s cooldown change which eliminates how powerful non Sorc spammables like Rapid Strikes could be. Long term, I hope Sorc gets more "multi hit" spammables because right now, it feels out of place and counter intuitive to class without any substantial dots.
• Original Implosion felt fun because we had 1s ticks on Lightning Form and 0.5s ticks on Lightning Splash. Bring some form of this back the same way you brought back 10s dots for DK. It also messed with Critical Surge.
• You've given it a 1% base chance, knock this up to 10% to 20%, so it's actually useable outside a dummy parse like in PvP where majority of fights stay on high health. To balance this out, you could add a % chance cap or start the 1% scaling later in a fight.
• This is a single target Mastery, every other major one I can think of works in aoe even if it's a single target monster like Templars 1500 damage done or DK's 12s dot. Where was this consideration? The 0.5s cooldown is fine, but allow it to be per target or deal damage in a 5m radius. This is an excellent opportunity to provide missing cleave, something Sorc desperately lacks, and since it's execute based, feels really similar to the concept of Mages Wrath where a low HP enemy helps you deal more damage to nearby enemies.
• Pets. I don't like them, but the nerf to chance at -50% for 1, and -66% for 2 is ridiculous. I understand trying to give no pet Sorc a leg up, they need it, but keep the chance the same at all times and instead lower the damage by like -10%, whatever keeps it equal.
• If for example, it didn't have a proc chance, and just increased in damage done by 3% per 1% missing HP below 50% HP up to +150% damage, each pet could lower this execute scaling by -0.5%. So many ways to handle it better.

All or some of these changes would go a long way and I hope they're considered for long term, and hopefully short term solutions.

Monolith is just bad, it's all down to the ridiculous setup that's needed to really proc it to it's potential.

I don't know why but ZoS, and even some of the player base, get WAY too caught up with "on paper" stats or scenarios.

Dummy parsing is akin to Nurburgring lap times, sure they're great accomplishments and indicate the maximum potential, but less than 1% of those cars will ever see those conditions and they're not achievable outside of controlled environments. You can't develop a game based off parses and think you're going to end up with a solid product.

Sorc Mastery passives don't need a nerf, the sustain and power are needed because those very things are what subclassed builds can achieve, plus, not only are the majority of Sorc skills useless but the ones that even are worth slotting are clunky; Crystal Weapon has no business having such a long animation to buff a light attack.

As for Monolith, in another thread I had recommended the set be changed to this:

(2 Items): Adds 657 Crit Chance
(3 Items): Adds 129 Weapon & Spell Damage
(4 Items): Adds 129 Weapon & Spell Damage
(5 Items): Dealing Shock damage creates a Monolith near the target for 10 seconds, up to 3 in total. Your Monoliths within 28m of each other link together to deal XX Shock damage, scaling off of the higher of your Weapon or Spell damage, every 1 second to enemies near the links (5m), up to once every 1 second per enemy.

Minor Hindrance is applied to enemies affected by your Monoliths for 5 seconds, reducing their movement speed by 40%. This affect can occur once every 10 seconds.

Each Monolith grants you 200 Weapon & Spell Damage.

In this scenario the set would proc off of ANY "Shock" damage. This gives the caster more flexibility and options as to how they want to proc the set, depending on the combat scenario they might face. For example, a caster could use a scribe of Soul Burst to proc all 3 of the Monoliths in one concentrated area, all at once, if they so chose, BUT, the caster would also be unable to spawn a new Monolith until those 3 timed out so it's a conscious decision to make. If the player wanted to use a Force Shock or other single target Sock damage method to proc the Monoliths individually in a wider area they could choose to do that as well; but they wouldn't be locked into Storm Calling skills only.

The caster would also have to be attentive to pets as their Shock damage could proc a Monolith so this also creates an additional skill management factor for the Sorc if they're choosing to run pets, which I think is fair.

This approach is similar to DK's Pyrebrand which can proc off heavy attacks rather an being confined to a skill from a specific skill line, opening up flexibility and reducing the time cost of the setup.

The reduction in damage application to every 1 second, down from 2 seconds works to better synergize the set with the new Class Mastery passives and would now see DPS values that actually apply to targets much more similar to other Class sets and even what can be had from over-world sets.

Lastly, the set would apply a named debuff to enemies. This debuff is FAR less than movement debuffs that other class skills apply and can potentially be cleansed by other players for balance purposes.

This would fix the main problem with Monolith which is the setup. It's still lore-thematic in that it's rooted in shock damage but at least there's more use cases with this logic. Not only that but a set like this is formidable, really making players think twice about getting near one of those monoliths, as opposed to now, nobody cares if they see one because they don't do enough for anyone to care about.

Prionyx wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

I don’t get the nerfs for nightblade masteries in PVP specifically. Who actually thinks nightblades overperform in PvP? You have dk whips dealing the same damage as bow procs, necros with unlimited stamina-health sustain, sorcs with overpowered masteries and yet nightblade gets the nerfs? The class with already the worst class masteries for PVP?

What is wrong with Whips being on par with Bowproc? One is melee and the other is ranged.

This sort of bias that only NBs are allowed to have high burst makes me tune-out these conversations.

NB has been subclassed in every PvP metabuild since forever so we should not pretend that they are hurting the same as, say, Necromancer has been.

What's your point? Bow being ranged is a massive disadvantage, this is the only reason mericless is soo bad. Because it's ranged you can't hit it after incap and will always be dodged, but whip is guaranteed after leap or db. NB is a melee class, you can't realy take advantage of it anyway. Incap is melee, fear is melee, your spammable is melee, axes are melee, bow only heals in melee...

"NB has been subclassed in every PvP metabuild" - no. Assassination was tier 3 skill line and far from must have unlike tier 1 lines(storm/restoring) and tier 2 lines(grave/animal)

I have to agree with @YandereGirlfriend on this one. I'm watching the lions share of builds run to Assassination for subclassing, honestly, seeing that as one of the top 2 choices (between Animal Companions & Assassination).

Most grab Assassin for Surprise Attack and Merciless Resolve specifically, because they perform so well.

Merciless isn't a range only skill and bow being a ranged attack and having issues I don't disagree with but that's not a NB specific issue nor does it have anything to do with Merciless.

Merciless has been one of the strongest performers in PvP since subclassing.

The majority of what I've seen for Subclassing is: Assassination, Animal Companion, & Aedric Spear. .. Storm Calling would be a solid 4th. This was only further amplified after the DK refresh where anyone who wanted to subclass Flame Lash would also grab either Surprise Attack or Toppling Charge to better proc Power Lash with as max uptime as possible.

How is merciless being ranged isn't a NB issue? It's NB's skill, and it being ranged is NB's core problem. If it was a melee skill NB would be miles stronger

Merciless isn't a ranged skill per se. It's not melee in the sense that it's not physical damage or a physical attack but it provides a significant health restore if used within melee range which is incredibly easy to do for most melee builds, especially those running dual wield.

You don't have to cast Merciless from a distance and it provides an incentive to synergize the skill with melee play styles. Merciless isn't "ranged" in the bow sense where you really only want to use it at considerable range.

Merciless executes it's function blisteringly quick. There are so many sources of CC in the game now, thanks to subclassing that applying a hard CC followed by Merciless is common and easy.

I admit that Merciless synergizes much better with subclassed builds than it does with pure NB but that's true for basically any class and skill at this point.

Merciless being an instant application that can scale to 15k to 20k damage, after resistances, it's hard to make a case for this skill being a poor performer; especially when it's so consistently slotted in PvP now.

If you want bad skills go slot Sorcs. Mostly redundant utility and no burst. The Sorcs dueling in Riften on PTS are mostly leaning on the Signet mythic to buff Overcharged with big pools while sitting behind shields. .. The funny part is that's not a Sorc-specific thing. Any class could do that very same thing, DKs could use that to jack Burning way up, but they don't need to. They have competitive skills.

The NB passives do need a bump up and the BS condition removed. Merciless though, that's a popular skill for good reason.

There are so many sources of CC in the game now, thanks to subclassing that applying a hard CC followed by Merciless is common and easy. - no. Only very low skilled players will not dodge bow because it's a ranged skill with a long travel time, there is not a single stun that will guarantee you a merciless excluding shattering rocks, but shattering rocks is a DK skill + everyone dodges it. People were using assassination because of passives and stats, while assassinastion skills by itself are super mid, this is THE ONLY class in the game without delayed burst

Most players slotting Merciless aren't using it in that way, nor is that the only way or even prime way to use it.

Sure, activating Merciless from Bow range will result in a dodge but most players who are experienced know to use it at much closer range where the execution of the function is so quick there's a lot more opportunity to use it and land damage. I see it every day in PvP.

You didn't get the point. There are no opportunities to guarantee it in a combo with incap because it's a ranged skill not because it's used in range but because it's a ranged skill with a travel time. It's impossible to land in a burst combo

Well, for starters no skill should deliver a “guarantee” to combo or land damage, that’s insanely broken. Every skill is (or should) have some element of counter-play to it; whatever that might be.

It’s one thing to guarantee that a particular skill can have or proc a particular effect, periodically, but that’s wholly different from guaranteeing actually landing that attack.

As for the travel time, for Merciless it’s exceptionally low. Pairing with Incap is easy but, thanks to subclassing, there’s even more available counter to a combo strategy like that. If you use Incap and the target currently has immunity then the stun isn’t going to apply and that’s the key thing needed to have a combo like Incap + Merciless land.

And I’m absolutely ok with that because a combination of Incap + Merciless in the current state of a crit meta shouldn’t be a guarantee, that would be literally giving someone free or low skill kills which shouldn’t be a cornerstone of combat (although I know it is with other combos).

Merciless is an incredibly hard hitting skill and has a blusteringly fast execution time, especially in the context of being compared to every other hard hitting skill in the game.

Dracane wrote: »

People need to understand that the most dangerous burst is sudden burst, not one that follows after a CC.

The most dangerous burst is the lag that guarantees the followup lands anyway, turning what should be a two shot with counterplay, instead into an instant kill one shot.

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

danko355 wrote: »

I don’t get the nerfs for nightblade masteries in PVP specifically. Who actually thinks nightblades overperform in PvP? You have dk whips dealing the same damage as bow procs, necros with unlimited stamina-health sustain, sorcs with overpowered masteries and yet nightblade gets the nerfs? The class with already the worst class masteries for PVP?

What is wrong with Whips being on par with Bowproc? One is melee and the other is ranged.

This sort of bias that only NBs are allowed to have high burst makes me tune-out these conversations.

NB has been subclassed in every PvP metabuild since forever so we should not pretend that they are hurting the same as, say, Necromancer has been.

What's your point? Bow being ranged is a massive disadvantage, this is the only reason mericless is soo bad. Because it's ranged you can't hit it after incap and will always be dodged, but whip is guaranteed after leap or db. NB is a melee class, you can't realy take advantage of it anyway. Incap is melee, fear is melee, your spammable is melee, axes are melee, bow only heals in melee...

"NB has been subclassed in every PvP metabuild" - no. Assassination was tier 3 skill line and far from must have unlike tier 1 lines(storm/restoring) and tier 2 lines(grave/animal)

I have to agree with @YandereGirlfriend on this one. I'm watching the lions share of builds run to Assassination for subclassing, honestly, seeing that as one of the top 2 choices (between Animal Companions & Assassination).

Most grab Assassin for Surprise Attack and Merciless Resolve specifically, because they perform so well.

Merciless isn't a range only skill and bow being a ranged attack and having issues I don't disagree with but that's not a NB specific issue nor does it have anything to do with Merciless.

Merciless has been one of the strongest performers in PvP since subclassing.

The majority of what I've seen for Subclassing is: Assassination, Animal Companion, & Aedric Spear. .. Storm Calling would be a solid 4th. This was only further amplified after the DK refresh where anyone who wanted to subclass Flame Lash would also grab either Surprise Attack or Toppling Charge to better proc Power Lash with as max uptime as possible.

How is merciless being ranged isn't a NB issue? It's NB's skill, and it being ranged is NB's core problem. If it was a melee skill NB would be miles stronger

Merciless isn't a ranged skill per se. It's not melee in the sense that it's not physical damage or a physical attack but it provides a significant health restore if used within melee range which is incredibly easy to do for most melee builds, especially those running dual wield.

You don't have to cast Merciless from a distance and it provides an incentive to synergize the skill with melee play styles. Merciless isn't "ranged" in the bow sense where you really only want to use it at considerable range.

Merciless executes it's function blisteringly quick. There are so many sources of CC in the game now, thanks to subclassing that applying a hard CC followed by Merciless is common and easy.

I admit that Merciless synergizes much better with subclassed builds than it does with pure NB but that's true for basically any class and skill at this point.

Merciless being an instant application that can scale to 15k to 20k damage, after resistances, it's hard to make a case for this skill being a poor performer; especially when it's so consistently slotted in PvP now.

If you want bad skills go slot Sorcs. Mostly redundant utility and no burst. The Sorcs dueling in Riften on PTS are mostly leaning on the Signet mythic to buff Overcharged with big pools while sitting behind shields. .. The funny part is that's not a Sorc-specific thing. Any class could do that very same thing, DKs could use that to jack Burning way up, but they don't need to. They have competitive skills.

The NB passives do need a bump up and the BS condition removed. Merciless though, that's a popular skill for good reason.

There are so many sources of CC in the game now, thanks to subclassing that applying a hard CC followed by Merciless is common and easy. - no. Only very low skilled players will not dodge bow because it's a ranged skill with a long travel time, there is not a single stun that will guarantee you a merciless excluding shattering rocks, but shattering rocks is a DK skill + everyone dodges it. People were using assassination because of passives and stats, while assassinastion skills by itself are super mid, this is THE ONLY class in the game without delayed burst

Most players slotting Merciless aren't using it in that way, nor is that the only way or even prime way to use it.

Sure, activating Merciless from Bow range will result in a dodge but most players who are experienced know to use it at much closer range where the execution of the function is so quick there's a lot more opportunity to use it and land damage. I see it every day in PvP.

You didn't get the point. There are no opportunities to guarantee it in a combo with incap because it's a ranged skill not because it's used in range but because it's a ranged skill with a travel time. It's impossible to land in a burst combo

Well, for starters no skill should deliver a “guarantee” to combo or land damage, that’s insanely broken. Every skill is (or should) have some element of counter-play to it; whatever that might be.

It’s one thing to guarantee that a particular skill can have or proc a particular effect, periodically, but that’s wholly different from guaranteeing actually landing that attack.

As for the travel time, for Merciless it’s exceptionally low. Pairing with Incap is easy but, thanks to subclassing, there’s even more available counter to a combo strategy like that. If you use Incap and the target currently has immunity then the stun isn’t going to apply and that’s the key thing needed to have a combo like Incap + Merciless land.

And I’m absolutely ok with that because a combination of Incap + Merciless in the current state of a crit meta shouldn’t be a guarantee, that would be literally giving someone free or low skill kills which shouldn’t be a cornerstone of combat (although I know it is with other combos).

Merciless is an incredibly hard hitting skill and has a blusteringly fast execution time, especially in the context of being compared to every other hard hitting skill in the game.

If you say that no skill should guarantee a combo then mormally I shouldn't even read your message because you have no idea how pvp works. It's a core of ESO's PVP and always has been. But for some reason I did

"As for the travel time, for Merciless it’s exceptionally low" - it doesn't matter as long as it's there. It's impossible to guarantee it after ulti like you can guarantee bfb with shalks unless you are using it against a very low skilled player, since anyone who is average or above will always dodge it, which makes merciless weakest "special" skill among all classes since literally every other skill is delayed

Also counterplay is block

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Templar is still the lowest damage class and cannot compete in PvP. Judgements Brand double nerfed by battlespirit. 600 spell damage is not enough with how bad the damage options in the templars kit actually is.

Templar with the worst sustain and a terrible sustain mastery that only works if you're not being hit is pathetically hilarious, but when you add in the awful damage masteries you're left with a class that's only ever worth bringing along to buff the real classes to let them pad their numbers a bit more.

Another nerf to NB this week's PTS xD At this point i would just change the passive so that it decreases Crit Damage in PvP instead of increasing it xDD

Class Mastery Perspective v12.0.3 Feedback – Tanks & Healers (Arcanist & Necromancer)

Did Class Mastery help in providing a meaningful boost to power for playing as a solo class?

Yes, to an extent. Class Mastery definitely increases overall power and self-sufficiency, especially for damage-focused builds. It allows solo players to access buffs and utility that previously required group coordination, which feels good in open-world and solo content.

Do you feel this system helps in allowing for more player agency in a post-subclassing play environment?

Partially. It does increase agency by letting players access impactful buffs like Major Force, extended Major Vulnerability, Major Heroism, Major Protection, and Major Berserk through their own kit.

However, this same flexibility starts to blur role identity, especially in group content, where those effects were traditionally tied to support roles.

What are the things you like about Class Mastery?

Classes feel more complete and less dependent on others in solo play
The power level of the passives feels impactful and noticeable
It rewards active gameplay rather than passive stat boosts
It aligns well with the freedom introduced by subclassing

What places do you think could use improvement with Class Mastery?

Right now, many of these passives are not role-restricted, which creates a major issue for group balance:

Damage dealers can easily trigger effects like Major Force (Ink-Scribe’s Verve) through things like Reaving Blows CP self-healing
DPS can also extend Major Vulnerability (Veil’s Forfeit) just as effectively as supports

This creates a problem where:

DPS are able to access what were traditionally support-level buffs
The necessity and identity of healers and tanks is reduced
Group composition loses depth and meaning

The result is a shift toward “everyone does everything,” which sounds good in theory but hurts group composition in practice.

Arcanist Healer – Ink-Scribe’s Verve Passive Issues & Feedback

Ink-Scribe’s Verve changing with Major Force is a great step, but it still doesn’t feel properly aligned with how Arcanist healing actually functions.

Core Issue:

It does not account for shielding, which is a fundamental part of Arcanist healing.

A large portion of Arcanist healing output comes from the Chakram shielding ability.

Right now, the passive ignores this entirely, making it harder to proc in the role it is supposed to support.

Gameplay Issues:

Arcanist lacks healing abilities. Healing beam theoretically should proc Major Force, but:

The 4.5 second channel does not align with PvE buff/debuff uptime windows
Positioning and latency make it clunky and inconsistent

Meanwhile, DPS builds using Reaving Blows CP can often trigger the passive more easily

Result:

The passive is sometimes easier to proc on DPS than on actual healers, which feels backwards.

Suggested Direction:

Allow the passive to proc from shielding applied to allies
Tie procs more directly to group-focused healing actions, not self-healing
Reduce effectiveness or consistency when triggered through self-healing

Necromancer Healer – Veil’s Forfeit Issues & Feedback

Veil’s Forfeit has strong ideas, but it currently lacks both consistency and clear role alignment.

Core Issue:

The 66% heal threshold to generate a corpse is unreliable, especially for healers.

Healers aim to keep allies at high health, so:

The condition often doesn’t trigger when needed
Core Necromancer mechanics (corpse usage) feel inconsistent
It introduces RNG into what should be a controlled support loop

Why This Matters:

Healers rely on consistency and predictability, not chance-based mechanics, especially in high-pressure group content.

Major Vulnerability Extension Issue:

The passive extension is strong, but:

It is universally accessible
It is not tied to support-specific gameplay
Any role (especially DPS) can benefit equally

Result:

Role identity becomes blurred
Supports are no longer the clear drivers of group utility
High-impact debuffs feel baseline instead of role-earned

Suggested Direction:

Make corpse generation reliable and tied to healing actions, not thresholds
Increase group utility scaling tied to support behavior
Tie Major Vulnerability extension to support-specific actions, not general gameplay

Suggested Improvements (Overall System)

Class Mastery should better reinforce role identity while maintaining flexibility:

Passives should scale more effectively when:

Healing or shielding allies
Performing tanking actions

Buffs like Major Force or Vulnerability:

Should require group-targeted actions
Should be less effective when self-procced
Tie passives more directly to healing & tanking skill lines and mechanics

A good example is Warden’s Major Heroism passive, which is tied directly to overhealing with the specific Green Balance healing skill line.

Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?

This system is absolutely a step in the right direction in terms of power and engagement.

However, it needs refinement to avoid undermining group roles.

Right now, it unintentionally incentivizes DPS builds to absorb support responsibilities, which leads to:

Less need for dedicated healers
Reduced tank/support identity
More homogenized gameplay

Final Thought:

Class Mastery should enhance flexibility without erasing specialization.

Healers and tanks should still feel essential, not optional.

Class Mastery V12.0.3 feedback from Arcanist pvp healer/soloer perspective:

1.Did Class Mastery help in providing a meaningful boost to power for playing as a solo class?


Partially, the major force from healing & over healings are great for solo or small scale group content(healer).

Though other class masteries are heavy focusing on either crux gen or dmg (i.e. Abyssal Emergence: Ulting max crux+ weapon/spell dmg; Fate Realigned: spend crux gen max crux+ weapon/spell dmg; Unbound Potential: pure dmg output),and as a Arcanist healer main resource of healing is from shields, they don't benefit from extra weapon/spell damage, and the crux consuming skills for arc healer is limited.

2.Do you feel this system helps in allowing for more player agency in a post subclassing play environment?

Definitely, pve dps got many good resources of cruxgen and damage output.

However, in pvp scenario crux spending skills are limited to:
Damage: (weapon/spell dmg)Tentacular dread (2*multiplier vs average aoe, tho sometimes not reliable against high mobile target, and using it often means no crux for burst heal in the next short period of time) Fate carver is strong but not reliable without solid cc
Selfheal: (Maximum HP)Runespite ward and its morph ( 15% maxhp healing & 15%maxhp shielding in pvp, once every15s or arc ulting)
Aoe shields: (Maximum resources) Tidal chakram(hot based on shield strength, but with delay ) Remedy cascade make yourself an easy target plus in high mobile environment its almost unusable

As you see, a pvp arcanist soloer are forced to use runespite ward as the only survivability crux spending method, just for the one burst heal every 15s/ult , while any other classes can just burst heal or shield to full without cd, it's not worth it. For Erudite’s Rigor, major vitality is good, but you need to get hit first and nearly every pvp soloer now already have it from wielding soul, while group having it from bone surge.

Perhaps can make it a stackable extra shield potency, like Landslide from Dragon knight and Nothing wasted from Necromancer:
"Crux Consumption to also grant a stack of xxx, for xx seconds every time you consume crux, up to xx stacks max and losing y stacks every z seconds so you need keep consuming and generate crux to strengthen up the weaving needle for the thread of fate".
It will making up for the loss of duplicated major buffs, sounds more fun and more aligned with Arcanist's crux gen/consumption play style.

3.What are the things you like about Class Mastery?

Crux generating masteries, since they playing around Arcanist unique core crux system and coordinating with different crux spend skills.
But that makes me wonders if it's taking up the place of those crux gen skills, perhaps a crux eating mastery rewarding more power if player's crux always full and flourish while punishing poor crux management with timidity or ult loss would be fun aswell?

4.What places do you think could use improvement with Class Mastery?

I see two masteries autogen max crux: Abyssal Emergence, Fate Realigned, seems abit duplicated for me.
In pve, if dps using exhausting fatecarver, they're able to do two 6sec beams with 2-3gcd to buff up/dot with Fate Realigned alone, there's no need for more crux gen from abyssal emergence and boundless potential for dps is just too good to miss.
In pvp, Abyssal emergence limiting its utility to arcanist ult : It could be good with dark convergence languid beam bomber, but other than that just one more 3crux burst heal when using shielding ult.

5.Any other general thoughts around Class Mastery?

Arcanist masteries on 12.0.3PTS are 3 for pve/pvp damage oriented, one for support healer, one for tank, personal thoughts of Erudite’s Rigor could be group defensive buff/utility( major evasion could be more unique and in line with circumvented fate passive ) . Could replacing Abyssal emergence with something like landslide from dk, a well-rounded perk but need gradually built up with class crux system to let any arcanist solo player having at least two slots to fit in.

CAB_Life wrote: »

Templar is underwhelming across the board. The support passives, in particular, simply do not compete with stuff like major force. The damage passives will not convince people to trade beams/ whips for jabs. Hopefully, we see some changes in PTS week 5, but I doubt it.

They need to move the Templar refresh ahead of sorcerer since sorc is already in a a good spot.