It's time to NERF new DK.

Militan1404 · April 11

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

you cant even begin to ask for nerfs on anything until refreshes are done on all classes to see where everything sits

You can't even begin to ask for nerfs on anything until SUBCLASSING has been nerfed.

I fixed it for you.

So long as what they are balancing the reworked classes against is broken, the reworks are ALSO going to be broken. They need to fix what is broken first, and THEN rework/rebalance the classes. This is the only step that makes sense.

I think subclassing would get kind of semi nerfed once they go thru the classes hopefully, like they doing the warden next whos been a big problem on most sub builds with animal skill line and the sorc after that who had storm calling. After that sub classing wont be that broken hopefully with the also comming pure class skills. And just wish they dont use the DK as standard for the next upcoming ballances and adjust it back a good portion before they continue

Xarc · April 11

Militan1404 wrote: »

And just wish they dont use the DK as standard for the next upcoming ballances and adjust it back a good portion before they continue

this is the point of my thread but everybody think this is good at it is actually and dont need to be changed.

Madarc · April 11

Hmm,,,, the reactions here range from enthusiastic approval to deep regret, though I’ve also come across players who actually describe the changes as “the worst update in ESO’s history.”

I don’t entirely agree with that, but I’m not thrilled either. I’m more afraid that this—or rather, the DK—is just the beginning of yet another never-ending “balancing” and “improvement” frenzy.

Sometimes it’s better to just leave things that have proven themselves over the years, as they were.
There are currently much more important “areas for improvement” that have opened up for the developers.
just my2cent

Militan1404 · April 11

Xarc wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

And just wish they dont use the DK as standard for the next upcoming ballances and adjust it back a good portion before they continue

this is the point of my thread but everybody think this is good at it is actually and dont need to be changed.

Yeah sadly true.. But in most players seem to think like this that if they buffed shalk or frags to do 80k dmg each time it wouldnt be a problem, the solution would just be to buff everything else to that standard becouse powercreep clearly don’t exist in their mind.

Northwold · April 11

I'm not playing the game at the moment but people keep mentioning class mastery. If the effect of that is to temporarily give a greater uplift to the classes that haven't been upgraded yet, that is surely the better approach rather than waiting several years for all the classes to be done while players see no progress in between or, worse, nerfing one class back into the ground.

Xarc · April 12

The DKs don't want to change anything.

But don't come crying when the new sorcerer one-shots you.

Radiate77 · April 12

I’m starting to lean. NGL
Is it really healthy to have 1 GCD 100-0s?

xylena · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

But don't come crying when the new sorcerer one-shots you.

Or the devs could address the underlying problem: busted sets and stats.

Radiate77 · April 12

xylena wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

But don't come crying when the new sorcerer one-shots you.

Or the devs could address the underlying problem: busted sets and stats.

What stat would you adjust?

Ayleid King is all you need on Dragonknight right now and it kills all of your sets.

Faltasë · April 12

Madarc wrote: »

Hmm,,,, the reactions here range from enthusiastic approval to deep regret, though I’ve also come across players who actually describe the changes as “the worst update in ESO’s history.”

I don’t entirely agree with that, but I’m not thrilled either. I’m more afraid that this—or rather, the DK—is just the beginning of yet another never-ending “balancing” and “improvement” frenzy.

Sometimes it’s better to just leave things that have proven themselves over the years, as they were.
There are currently much more important “areas for improvement” that have opened up for the developers.
just my2cent

From what I'm seeing, it actually seems like the majority agree that the DK should be left alone. 4 people out of probably a hundred calling for nerfs isn't what I would call both enthusiastic approval and deep regret. Its more enthusiastic approval.

The support for the DK speaks for itself. By democracy, people like the route the devs are taking. You can even look at the approval through likes and awesomes on posts supporting the new DK.

I think alot of the complaints about power differences are valid, but they are misdirected and often not taking into account anything besides short-sighted nerf-buff cycles, that everyone and their mother is exhausted from experiencing time and time again in this game for the past decade.

Just let the *** unfold, because at the end of the day, this has kinda always been ESO's weak point, the cycling of nerfs and buffs, that often left some classes unusable for half a year at some points in the past(try using sorcerers before subclassing came out in anything besides a niche pvp use case, it was awful)

The consensus though is clearly very positive reactions to DK. The only negative ones im seeing are people who come from PvP, whom, btw, has always experienced the most imbalanced environment compared to PvE. They could alleviate that problem by making PvP separate instances instead of connecting it with PvE.... you know, something like Vengeance.

SneaK · April 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

But don't come crying when the new sorcerer one-shots you.

Or the devs could address the underlying problem: busted sets and stats.

What stat would you adjust?

Ayleid King is all you need on Dragonknight right now and it kills all of your sets.

They need to adjust how healing scales with dmg, that would be the best place to start.

I imagine Xylena is talking mostly about VD and pull sets, cause I’ve seen that post a lot… those aren’t a real problem IMO. Charm is tho.

The actual problem is stats and how they scale with healing. It’s enabled too many jack of all trades builds, you rarely have to deal with trade offs anymore.

Torc works so well on DK cause of Corrosive, but again all that weapon damage you’re trading for pen just boosts your heals and it shouldn’t.

Malyore · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

The DKs don't want to change anything.

But don't come crying when the new sorcerer one-shots you.

You keep saying "The DKs want" this, and "the DK mains" that.
WE'RE NOT ALL DKS! You have been told this already. Many people who do not play DK are also welcoming its new changes. It would be more accurate for you to admit "A lot of the community doesn't want to change anything."

Careful with all that resentment you're building up... all that inner fire might come out and turn you into a DK too 😱

Once the refreshes are completed, then we can come back and readdress the situation– if that is even needed.

Militan1404 · April 12

Faltasë wrote: »

Madarc wrote: »

Hmm,,,, the reactions here range from enthusiastic approval to deep regret, though I’ve also come across players who actually describe the changes as “the worst update in ESO’s history.”

I don’t entirely agree with that, but I’m not thrilled either. I’m more afraid that this—or rather, the DK—is just the beginning of yet another never-ending “balancing” and “improvement” frenzy.

Sometimes it’s better to just leave things that have proven themselves over the years, as they were.
There are currently much more important “areas for improvement” that have opened up for the developers.
just my2cent

From what I'm seeing, it actually seems like the majority agree that the DK should be left alone. 4 people out of probably a hundred calling for nerfs isn't what I would call both enthusiastic approval and deep regret. Its more enthusiastic approval.

The support for the DK speaks for itself. By democracy, people like the route the devs are taking. You can even look at the approval through likes and awesomes on posts supporting the new DK.

I think alot of the complaints about power differences are valid, but they are misdirected and often not taking into account anything besides short-sighted nerf-buff cycles, that everyone and their mother is exhausted from experiencing time and time again in this game for the past decade.

Just let the *** unfold, because at the end of the day, this has kinda always been ESO's weak point, the cycling of nerfs and buffs, that often left some classes unusable for half a year at some points in the past(try using sorcerers before subclassing came out in anything besides a niche pvp use case, it was awful)

The consensus though is clearly very positive reactions to DK. The only negative ones im seeing are people who come from PvP, whom, btw, has always experienced the most imbalanced environment compared to PvE. They could alleviate that problem by making PvP separate instances instead of connecting it with PvE.... you know, something like Vengeance.

Go to cyro then if you think its only like 4 players, text chat is full of players that dont like new dk. And why suggesting Vengeance when most pvpers have rejected it? Each time zos tryed to make Vengeance a thing, cyro gets empty. Dont matter how much players enjoi it, its overpreforming in so many ways. And would the class be so less fun if it was ballanced? Are you so bad of a player that you need a class to carry you instead of relying on your skills to do the job? Oh yeah lets make every class this overpowered like pve aint easy enough like it is. I both pve and pvp but in pve i can at least not use this cheese and pretend it dont exist.

Faltasë · April 12

Militan1404 wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

Madarc wrote: »

Hmm,,,, the reactions here range from enthusiastic approval to deep regret, though I’ve also come across players who actually describe the changes as “the worst update in ESO’s history.”

I don’t entirely agree with that, but I’m not thrilled either. I’m more afraid that this—or rather, the DK—is just the beginning of yet another never-ending “balancing” and “improvement” frenzy.

Sometimes it’s better to just leave things that have proven themselves over the years, as they were.
There are currently much more important “areas for improvement” that have opened up for the developers.
just my2cent

From what I'm seeing, it actually seems like the majority agree that the DK should be left alone. 4 people out of probably a hundred calling for nerfs isn't what I would call both enthusiastic approval and deep regret. Its more enthusiastic approval.

The support for the DK speaks for itself. By democracy, people like the route the devs are taking. You can even look at the approval through likes and awesomes on posts supporting the new DK.

I think alot of the complaints about power differences are valid, but they are misdirected and often not taking into account anything besides short-sighted nerf-buff cycles, that everyone and their mother is exhausted from experiencing time and time again in this game for the past decade.

Just let the *** unfold, because at the end of the day, this has kinda always been ESO's weak point, the cycling of nerfs and buffs, that often left some classes unusable for half a year at some points in the past(try using sorcerers before subclassing came out in anything besides a niche pvp use case, it was awful)

The consensus though is clearly very positive reactions to DK. The only negative ones im seeing are people who come from PvP, whom, btw, has always experienced the most imbalanced environment compared to PvE. They could alleviate that problem by making PvP separate instances instead of connecting it with PvE.... you know, something like Vengeance.

Go to cyro then if you think its only like 4 players, text chat is full of players that dont like new dk. And why suggesting Vengeance when most pvpers have rejected it? Each time zos tryed to make Vengeance a thing, cyro gets empty. Dont matter how much players enjoi it, its overpreforming in so many ways. And would the class be so less fun if it was ballanced? Are you so bad of a player that you need a class to carry you instead of relying on your skills to do the job? Oh yeah lets make every class this overpowered like pve aint easy enough like it is. I both pve and pvp but in pve i can at least not use this cheese and pretend it dont exist.

At this rate, I'm not even sure what your argument is because your thoughts are so jumbled up and nonsensical.

Vraedlich · April 12

I bust my chops trying to complete Veteran Vateshran Hollow on a DK for ages.

As soon as they added Arcanist.. I didn't even worry about mechanics on the last boss, I just used beam.

The DK is not as good as the Arcanist but it's close now and fun.

Before that Sorcs with streak were the "omg op plz nerf" class.

The other classes just need similar passes.

Until then there is zero reason to complain. You have access to both DKs and subclassing.

They actually made the class fun again. PVP they are constantly balancing so don't sweat it.

Oblivion_Protocol · April 12

Militan1404 wrote: »

And whats the plan? Put every class in line with the dk so everyone can run around one shoting players like it’s an shoot’em up. It also putting players of the game, lots of guildes have left becouse of it, and cyro is only complains about it, and the game is emtyer than ever so it certenly didnt bring inn anymore players.

Yes. Because all of the reworked DKs that fight each other end up one-shotting each other.

Oh, wait. That never happens.

I desperately want the plan to be bring every class to the level DK is at right now. DK has a complete kit, and I’m sure all the other class reworks will, too, if the devs continue the pattern they started with DK.

And no, PvP is not empty. Every night for the past week on PCNA, there’s a nearly hour-long queue to get into GH. Lots of fights and activity happen in Cyro, and I can count one hand the number of people I’ve personally witnessed openly complain about the new DK.

Xarc · April 12

Vraedlich wrote: »

The other classes just need similar passes.

Until then there is zero reason to complain. You have access to both DKs and subclassing.

I play PvP.
I don't play DK, but I play against them, and there's clearly a difference compared to other classes.
I don't use subclassing for most of my PvP characters (only healers in battlegrounds, but not in Cyrodiil).

What you don't understand is that I'm not saying DKs aren't fun to play; they're probably very fun. But if your definition of fun is that you now easily crush other classes, then we have different definitions. We can easily make slight adjustments that allow for a slight rebalancing; we're not going to wait 150 years for all the classes to be rebalanced, that's ridiculous.

Note that I have two DK characters that I've tested, of course, and yes, I've noticed the change. It's completely different.
I maintain that this rework needs to be slightly modified.

Malyore wrote: »

WE'RE NOT ALL DKS!

Using a DK subclass on your character makes you a DK in this discussion.

xylena · April 12

Radiate77 wrote: »

What stat would you adjust?

Ayleid King is all you need on Dragonknight right now and it kills all of your sets.

All of them. The extreme tank/burst meta with oppressive build demands is a direct result of the base numbers being too damn big, to where even vanilla gear is pushing top meta builds to broken extremes. The animal assassins from last patch generally used vanilla stat gear too.

WoW addresses this problem with a strategy they call "stat squish" that lowers all the numbers without actually nerfing anything, since all the numbers are reduced proportionally.

But notice how my "DK is fine" posts get a million positive feedbacks while "nerf the damn sets" is met with silence or skepticism. That's part of how we end up in all these godawful metas where classes are bland empty husks for the latest overpowered build cheese.

FlameDark · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

Vraedlich wrote: »

The other classes just need similar passes.

Until then there is zero reason to complain. You have access to both DKs and subclassing.

I play PvP.
I don't play DK, but I play against them, and there's clearly a difference compared to other classes.
I don't use subclassing for most of my PvP characters (only healers in battlegrounds, but not in Cyrodiil).

What you don't understand is that I'm not saying DKs aren't fun to play; they're probably very fun. But if your definition of fun is that you now easily crush other classes, then we have different definitions. We can easily make slight adjustments that allow for a slight rebalancing; we're not going to wait 150 years for all the classes to be rebalanced, that's ridiculous.

Note that I have two DK characters that I've tested, of course, and yes, I've noticed the change. It's completely different.
I maintain that this rework needs to be slightly modified.

Malyore wrote: »

WE'RE NOT ALL DKS!

Using a DK subclass on your character makes you a DK in this discussion.

You are having a very hard time with the idea that people who do not play DKs... at ALL, are supporting NOT nerfing the DK changes right now. You also assumed that I subclassed DK in a previous post when I pointed out that I did not play DK when I supported not nerfing the class. I do not have a DK character, and I do not subclass as a DK. I have not touched the DK skills or play in ANY regaurd as a DK. Yet am still on the side of "do not nerf, wait for all classes to get their turn before calling out for nerfs". So please stop assuming every person supporting the class is either DK or subclassing as one. Some of us want to see the changes roll out first before lighting each class that gets buffed on fire.

CalamityCat · April 12

Xarc wrote: »

The DKs don't want to change anything.

But don't come crying when the new sorcerer one-shots you.

There are two kinds of PvPer. Those who scream for nerfs when they don't like whatever killed them, and those of us who know the flavour of the month will eventually change, and in the interim will focus on learning to counter and beat the current top meta builds.

The players most likely to complain about sorcs will be complaining about wardens soon, and most class revamps we get. Other than hoping the flappy bird gets grounded, I'm looking forward to having my sorc revamped and seeing more pure classes in PvP again.

Xarc · April 12

CalamityCat wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

The DKs don't want to change anything.

But don't come crying when the new sorcerer one-shots you.

There are two kinds of PvPer. Those who scream for nerfs when they don't like whatever killed them, and those of us who know the flavour of the month will eventually change, and in the interim will focus on learning to counter and beat the current top meta builds.

The players most likely to complain about sorcs will be complaining about wardens soon, and most class revamps we get. Other than hoping the flappy bird gets grounded, I'm looking forward to having my sorc revamped and seeing more pure classes in PvP again.

you forgot to mention all players who just left the game because they know complaining is useless, because of people like you

eso pop is decreasing but well, all is fine for you

Previously, all three PvP campaigns were full at peak times.
Now, only GH struggles to reach full capacity; queues that used to be 150 players are now down to 10 at their peak.

While in-game performance is better, isn't that strange?

Perhaps there's an explanation in what some players are doing and then facing a wall of players in complete denial.

When there are only a thousand of you left in the game, will you still say "everything's fine"? Or will you say "well, maybe we should have listened to some people"?
It's not because some people don't say anything that they don't exist. Doesn’t the notion of a silent majority speak to you? At some point you have to look at the numbers and the graphs, not just your friends for whom everything is going well

Militan1404 · April 12

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Militan1404 wrote: »

And whats the plan? Put every class in line with the dk so everyone can run around one shoting players like it’s an shoot’em up. It also putting players of the game, lots of guildes have left becouse of it, and cyro is only complains about it, and the game is emtyer than ever so it certenly didnt bring inn anymore players.

Yes. Because all of the reworked DKs that fight each other end up one-shotting each other.

Oh, wait. That never happens.

I desperately want the plan to be bring every class to the level DK is at right now. DK has a complete kit, and I’m sure all the other class reworks will, too, if the devs continue the pattern they started with DK.

And no, PvP is not empty. Every night for the past week on PCNA, there’s a nearly hour-long queue to get into GH. Lots of fights and activity happen in Cyro, and I can count one hand the number of people I’ve personally witnessed openly complain about the new DK.

It happens all the time, i do it my self all the time so i should now. Most fights ends in a big one hit desync and exploiting broken mechs.

And i want the devs to ballance the game and dont like pattern it seems going farward, so we just have to see.

Last night on a Saturday prime time 2 factions had 1bar and the reds had 2 bars, and most players stayed at base complaining about dk being op.

Thumbless_Bot · April 12

SneaK wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

But don't come crying when the new sorcerer one-shots you.

Or the devs could address the underlying problem: busted sets and stats.

What stat would you adjust?

Ayleid King is all you need on Dragonknight right now and it kills all of your sets.

They need to adjust how healing scales with dmg, that would be the best place to start.

Healing scaling woth damage is flat.out wrong. It is the equivalent of making cars more fuel efficient the fast you accelerate.

I have ran anything but ayleid king since it came out. It's not meta imho but it really strong and a lot of fun. I mean I haven't had this mich fun with stat sets ever.

LadyBriala · April 12

Honestly, until all classes are reworked, they should put a debuff in PvP that reduces their damage on their abilities as its literally ridiculous how much damage they are actually doing to my fully pvp geared healer.

I can see them running around only spamming molten whip, nothing else.. jump ult > molten whip > gg.. working as intended?

Either reduce them or lift the healing debuff so we can compete.

Thumbless_Bot · April 12

LadyBriala wrote: »

Honestly, until all classes are reworked, they should put a debuff in PvP that reduces their damage on their abilities as its literally ridiculous how much damage they are actually doing to my fully pvp geared healer.

I can see them running around only spamming molten whip, nothing else.. jump ult > molten whip > gg.. working as intended?

Either reduce them or lift the healing debuff so we can compete.

Hard disagree. Instead they should use dk as the pvp benchmark for other class reworks.

Stop the nerfing.

Xarc · April 12

earlier I fought a player, he spammed me molten whip/dragon leap/molten whip/dragon leap
He told me: " I'm not DK, I'm a sorcerer."

Ok dude.

bg,f8f8f8-flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg

bg,f8f8f8-flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg

LadyBriala · April 12

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

LadyBriala wrote: »

Honestly, until all classes are reworked, they should put a debuff in PvP that reduces their damage on their abilities as its literally ridiculous how much damage they are actually doing to my fully pvp geared healer.

I can see them running around only spamming molten whip, nothing else.. jump ult > molten whip > gg.. working as intended?

Either reduce them or lift the healing debuff so we can compete.

Hard disagree. Instead they should use dk as the pvp benchmark for other class reworks.

Stop the nerfing.

When a class gets reduced to only needing to use 2 abilities to overpower, then something is wrong 🙃

Their PVE damage can be whatever, but in PvP, when not all other classes are on par yet, they should get a temporary debuff to be more in-line with everyone else right now. When all classes are completed, it gets lifted and the real testing begins.

Thumbless_Bot · April 12

LadyBriala wrote: »

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

LadyBriala wrote: »

Honestly, until all classes are reworked, they should put a debuff in PvP that reduces their damage on their abilities as its literally ridiculous how much damage they are actually doing to my fully pvp geared healer.

I can see them running around only spamming molten whip, nothing else.. jump ult > molten whip > gg.. working as intended?

Either reduce them or lift the healing debuff so we can compete.

Hard disagree. Instead they should use dk as the pvp benchmark for other class reworks.

Stop the nerfing.

When a class gets reduced to only needing to use 2 abilities to overpower, then something is wrong 🙃

Their PVE damage can be whatever, but in PvP, when not all other classes are on par yet, they should get a temporary debuff to be more in-line with everyone else right now. When all classes are completed, it gets lifted and the real testing begins.

All most of the dissenters here are saying is to wait until.the refresh is done before adjusting or throttling anything. Dk is strong, no doubt. Hopefully the rest of the classes are as well, except necro. Necro needs to be even clunkier than it already is and nerfed into Oblivion.

The Uninvited · April 12

Instead of only focussing on steam charts, there are sites that provide a more realistic view on active players:

Xarc · April 12

The Uninvited wrote: »

Instead of only focussing on steam charts, there are sites that provide a more realistic view on active players:

This graph is misleading and does not represent the number of players at all.

It is based on analytical data from Google and the number of people searching for "ESO" etc.

Even if Steam only represents players who pass through this platform, at least it is a reliable source that clearly shows the decline of our game.