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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 13
Update 50 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
It's time to NERF new DK.
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »CalamityCat wrote: »
So I guess you haven't noticed all the subclass builds that have been hitting like a truck for the past year? Because they're still around and still trashing the balance in PvP. Your focus on the DK seems to have conveniently missed that.Incredible.
Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.
I can't believe it.
The changes are already in game and more are coming, so nobody is having to wait for two years! Though on the subject of patience, as a pure class PvP player I've been killed by the most stupidly OP subclass builds for about a year now. I'm still not screaming that subclassing should be nerfed or deleted. Nor am I complaining about DKs. I'm fighting DKs daily with the same pure builds and going by my logs, subclassers are still hitting insane numbers. From my perspective, the complaints about DKs are hilarious. I find them tough but they're absolutely killable. There is a degree of exaggeration in these PvP nerf threads that I can't always take seriously...
I am genuinely going to enjoy the upcoming "nerf wardens" chorus when my main gets updated though.
Theres a big diffence between sub classes and DKs, sub classes has the assasin/animal/storm that is overperforming(that we been screaming to be balanced for months allready) in pvp and thats really it, but is no where near what DK is doing at the moment so stop spreading misinformation. No subclass build could one shot you, and the skills are way to stacked and do to much, dosent matter if they give pure class skills becouse the DK could still one shot players. And whats the plan? Put every class in line with the dk so everyone can run around one shoting players like its an shoot’em up. It also putting players of the game, lots of guildes have left becouse of it, and cyro is only complains about it, and the game is emtyer than ever so it certenly didnt bring inn anymore players.
Steam charts show we've been mostly gaining players since January.
ETA
Also, it's up on the top selling games.
IDK about the PvP population, you may be right about it. But the current strategy seems to be working right now. Many seem to like the DK refresh and tomes if these are anything to by. I think Season 1 will be the real test though as the Chapter drop is traditionally when we get the most players.Edited by spartaxoxo on April 8, 2026 11:58PM5 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭We have been dealing with full imbalanced PvP for 4+ years now, ever since U34 and for many years before that too. 2 more years with all classes (and WW/Vamp/non class skills) getting their turn to shine thanks to their respective refreshes won't be any more damaging to PvP than what we have been through over the past 4+ years in PvP:
- U34 with savage werewolf bowsorc
- U35 Oakensoul 1 bar bomb builds (immortal 1 bar necro ranged bombers thanks to the mender buff + pre-nerf Oakensoul)
- U36 chill-den and (bugged) potl plar
- U37 to U41 reworked NB (was actually also part of the meta in U35/36, but the above classes/builds were more common)
- U41 to U43 Ward Sorc with a side of NB
- U43 to U46 NB
- U46 to U48 sub-classed meta build (animal + assassin + X)
- U49 Refreshed DK
- U50 maybe refreshed Werewolf*
- U51 maybe refreshed Warden*
- U52 maybe refreshed Sorc*
- U53 maybe refreshed Plar*
- U54 maybe refreshed NB* (or Necro, I forget the order of these 2 classes)
- U55 maybe refreshed Necro* (or NB, I forget the order of these 2 classes)
- U56 maybe refreshed Arc*
*Pending assuming these refreshes are on par with the DK refresh.
Also note, (I can't remember the exact patch number) but on release Arcanist was the meta for a while and was everywhere thanks to it's bugged charm CC that was unbreakable and was a guaranteed 5+ second stun, so technically all classes (and sub-classing) have had their moment as the meta during this time, with some (NB and sub-classing) having significantly longer periods than others (necro, arc, plar).
Over this time, the game has already spiraled completely out of control, but currently the only builds that are at that level are the meta sub-classed builds and now the refreshed DK. The other classes are being brought up slowly, but it takes time and focus to get things right (see DK refresh) that I highly doubt it's possible to do all classes at the same time (especially since the loud minority within the community loves to kill off buffs to anything not named NB before they make it to live).
Personally I would have preferred to see DK refresh release to live delayed by 1 patch and release Warden alongside it as a double release to start the refresh project to give players more than 1 option for the first refresh patch, but I don't know the inner workings at ZOS and maybe the population decline due to sub-classing was too great that even delaying by 1 patch would have been too much, or maybe there was something else entirely that meant a delay of 1 patch was not feasible.
As for "balancing things from the start, what are we balancing them against?
- If we balance the refreshed classes against non-refreshed pure classes, the refreshes will do less than nothing to bring pure classes up to par with sub-classing builds and sub-classed builds will remain the only meta for the next 2 years until all of the meta sub-classed lines are refreshed (with the 2 most egregious lines, Assassination and Herald of the Tome being at the end of the refresh making it the full wait).
- If we balance them against sub-classed builds, then refreshed classes will always be much stronger than non-refreshed classes because sub-classed builds are already that much stronger and we are trying to balance refreshed classes with these significantly stronger sub-classed builds, but this will allow us to play other things and shake up the meta every few months until all of the classes have been refreshed, thus preventing the stale sub-class meta from lasting 3+ years.
Like I said earlier, the time to start complaining about the refreshes are at the end of this year when we have more details about the refresh project, and only if the Warden and Sorc refreshes don't match up to the DK refresh leaving an imbalanced meta even post refreshes. Based on what the devs have said, they want pure classes to be on par with where they expected sub-classing to land, while simultaneously shifting key skills/passives around such that the extremes of sub-classing are toned down to closer match the refreshed classes. Thus it's impossible to give proper informed and constructive feedback regarding the refreshes until we have more information on things like baseline power, playstyles, accessibility, etc. which we can only determine once we have more refreshes done.
We can point out things that might be potential issues for ZOS to take on board with their refreshes (things like near infinite sustain inhale, stackable/uncounterable CC such as the delayed CC on shattering rocks/fossilize, etc.) but in terms of calling for nerfs, we cannot truly give informed feedback on if the refreshes are too strong until we have more data to work with to know if these potential issues are actual outliers or just part of the new baseline ZOS has in mind for a post sub-classing ESO power level.
This isn't to say DK is not stronger than pre-refreshed classes, but instead of trying to kill off this refresh project with knee jerk reactions right at the very first step, before it really gets going like we as a community have been doing for almost 10 years now, lets at least wait and see beyond the first step if it will be likely to deliver or not so that we can actually provide good feedback that ZOS can use to deliver their stated goal, especially since this is a new team so we should be giving them at least 1 chance to see if they can deliver on their promises/directions.6 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
IDK about the PvP population, you may be right about it. But the current strategy seems to be working right now. Many seem to like the DK refresh and tomes if these are anything to by. I think Season 1 will be the real test though as the Chapter drop is traditionally when we get the most players.
PvP population has been mixed, but it is still low overall. That doesn't have anything to do with the refreshes though, since there have been a lot of returning players since the DK refresh (just 1 guild alone is back up to a 40-50% full roster now logging in daily/almost daily up from being just me and 1 other being the remaining regular daily players).
The main reason for the low population (outside of ball groups and lag) is 99% to do with the complete lack of action by ZOS on things like population imbalance, night capping, etc. that have done just as much to ruin PvP as ball groups and lag.3 -
aetherix8✭✭✭✭You all blame subclassing when you all admit there's an imbalance in PvP with the DK.
But I wasn't in favor of subclassing either, and what happened just proved me right, as well as everyone else who was against it.
I don't care that my opinion is in the minority; that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Here's the proof.
This temporary DK imbalance is a direct result of subclassing imbalance.
What makes it different is that class refresh is an effort to address all the issues caused by subclassing - stale meta that is way ahead of anything else, both in PvP and PvE, pure classes being pretty much useless, etc.
That’s why I’m ok with it. While subclassing was implemented without much thought and proved to be quite destructive to build and playstyle diversity, class refresh is meant to fix this imbalance and give back power to pure classes. It’s a necessary evil, and I prefer one class per update than 2 years of same stale meta with no meaningful changes.PC EU - V4hn17 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You all blame subclassing when you all admit there's an imbalance in PvP with the DK.
But I wasn't in favor of subclassing either, and what happened just proved me right, as well as everyone else who was against it.
I don't care that my opinion is in the minority; that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Here's the proof.
I haven't seen 'you all admit' anywhere in this thread... at all. Furthermore, what proof? Because YOU say so??CP: 2121 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~4 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You all blame subclassing when you all admit there's an imbalance in PvP with the DK.
But I wasn't in favor of subclassing either, and what happened just proved me right, as well as everyone else who was against it.
I don't care that my opinion is in the minority; that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Here's the proof.
This temporary DK imbalance is a direct result of subclassing imbalance.
What makes it different is that class refresh is an effort to address all the issues caused by subclassing - stale meta that is way ahead of anything else, both in PvP and PvE, pure classes being pretty much useless, etc.
That’s why I’m ok with it. While subclassing was implemented without much thought and proved to be quite destructive to build and playstyle diversity, class refresh is meant to fix this imbalance and give back power to pure classes. It’s a necessary evil, and I prefer one class per update than 2 years of same stale meta with no meaningful changes.
Not quite. To any extent that there is imbalance, that is a direct result of design team strategy and implementation.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.0 -
AllenaNightWood✭✭✭✭you cant even begin to ask for nerfs on anything until refreshes are done on all classes to see where everything sits9 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »CalamityCat wrote: »
So I guess you haven't noticed all the subclass builds that have been hitting like a truck for the past year? Because they're still around and still trashing the balance in PvP. Your focus on the DK seems to have conveniently missed that.Incredible.
Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.
I can't believe it.
The changes are already in game and more are coming, so nobody is having to wait for two years! Though on the subject of patience, as a pure class PvP player I've been killed by the most stupidly OP subclass builds for about a year now. I'm still not screaming that subclassing should be nerfed or deleted. Nor am I complaining about DKs. I'm fighting DKs daily with the same pure builds and going by my logs, subclassers are still hitting insane numbers. From my perspective, the complaints about DKs are hilarious. I find them tough but they're absolutely killable. There is a degree of exaggeration in these PvP nerf threads that I can't always take seriously...
I am genuinely going to enjoy the upcoming "nerf wardens" chorus when my main gets updated though.
Theres a big diffence between sub classes and DKs, sub classes has the assasin/animal/storm that is overperforming(that we been screaming to be balanced for months allready) in pvp and thats really it, but is no where near what DK is doing at the moment so stop spreading misinformation. No subclass build could one shot you, and the skills are way to stacked and do to much, dosent matter if they give pure class skills becouse the DK could still one shot players. And whats the plan? Put every class in line with the dk so everyone can run around one shoting players like its an shoot’em up. It also putting players of the game, lots of guildes have left becouse of it, and cyro is only complains about it, and the game is emtyer than ever so it certenly didnt bring inn anymore players.
"No subclass build could one-shot you." Was this a joke?
4 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »
No subclass build could one shot youCalamityCat wrote: »
So I guess you haven't noticed all the subclass builds that have been hitting like a truck for the past year? Because they're still around and still trashing the balance in PvP. Your focus on the DK seems to have conveniently missed that.Incredible.
Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.
I can't believe it.
The changes are already in game and more are coming, so nobody is having to wait for two years! Though on the subject of patience, as a pure class PvP player I've been killed by the most stupidly OP subclass builds for about a year now. I'm still not screaming that subclassing should be nerfed or deleted. Nor am I complaining about DKs. I'm fighting DKs daily with the same pure builds and going by my logs, subclassers are still hitting insane numbers. From my perspective, the complaints about DKs are hilarious. I find them tough but they're absolutely killable. There is a degree of exaggeration in these PvP nerf threads that I can't always take seriously...
I am genuinely going to enjoy the upcoming "nerf wardens" chorus when my main gets updated though.
I mean this is just categorically false lol. Any build that stacked Spec Bow/Crystal Frags/Tentacular Dread alongside Shalks/Curse/Blastbones/Power of the Light could (and still can) one shot you.
I mean I literally have a subclassed Assassin/Storm/Grave Lord build this patch that can one shot players from range.
5 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.
Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?
You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.
Thank you.
I have seen far more people wanting to see other classes brought up to the level of the DK rework than I have seen people crying for nerfs, its genuinely refreshing.
I hope ZOS take note of the 10x ratio on the first comment disagreeing with you.
Well i seen far more that dislike it and chats are full of complains about it, and how the game is shrinking even more after the rework tells what players wants.
Except the game isn't shrinking? It's been growing in population. You can check the steam charts for proof.3 -
cyberjanet✭✭✭✭✭Well, I haven't had time to explore my DK yet, but yes, I'm used to everything being nerfed before I get a chance to do anything. Like the Thrassian gloves, and Pale Order ring, which took so long to get and were nerfed as I finally got the last lead. Keep your mythics, and end-game meta. But I guess the community wants to nerf having fun too, because the Eight forbid someone should actually *enjoy* playing.Favourite NPC: Wine-For-All
Mostly PC-EU , with a lonely little guy on NA.1 -
Militan1404✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »
No subclass build could one shot youCalamityCat wrote: »
So I guess you haven't noticed all the subclass builds that have been hitting like a truck for the past year? Because they're still around and still trashing the balance in PvP. Your focus on the DK seems to have conveniently missed that.Incredible.
Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.
I can't believe it.
The changes are already in game and more are coming, so nobody is having to wait for two years! Though on the subject of patience, as a pure class PvP player I've been killed by the most stupidly OP subclass builds for about a year now. I'm still not screaming that subclassing should be nerfed or deleted. Nor am I complaining about DKs. I'm fighting DKs daily with the same pure builds and going by my logs, subclassers are still hitting insane numbers. From my perspective, the complaints about DKs are hilarious. I find them tough but they're absolutely killable. There is a degree of exaggeration in these PvP nerf threads that I can't always take seriously...
I am genuinely going to enjoy the upcoming "nerf wardens" chorus when my main gets updated though.
I mean this is just categorically false lol. Any build that stacked Spec Bow/Crystal Frags/Tentacular Dread alongside Shalks/Curse/Blastbones/Power of the Light could (and still can) one shot you.
I mean I literally have a subclassed Assassin/Storm/Grave Lord build this patch that can one shot players from range.
Spec bow is another skill that should never been in this game at is current form, that i tought zos would deal with long ago. But still i have yet to be one shoted buy any of those builds and they easy to react to, might be good to take down glass cannons i guess but so could most builds. with DK i just use leap or shattering rocks and and get free wip after becouse of how the skills works and there nothing the other player can do about it becouse of how the skills and animation on them works. On leap you cant do anything before after the animation on it and then the knock back, kind of like the templar javelin used to work. On shattering rocks its like an delay on the skill and until you get stuned so you get a free attack as well, and sometimes its takes even longer like a hard stun in a way where it takes second before you can even do something, witch is a death sentence in pvp. Then its how easy it is to manipulate a dezync into a insta kill on it, that in mine opinion is a exploit if done on purpose. I do that all the time and are not even trying. And thats only some of the problems with it and i think most of them could be fixed with even affecting pve.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »
Except the game isn't shrinking? It's been growing in population. You can check the steam charts for proof.
Perhaps he meant PvP keeps shrinking, yet numbers actually show PvE players keep growing. I dunno.CP: 2121 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~1 -
Militan1404✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.
Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?
You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.
Thank you.
I have seen far more people wanting to see other classes brought up to the level of the DK rework than I have seen people crying for nerfs, its genuinely refreshing.
I hope ZOS take note of the 10x ratio on the first comment disagreeing with you.
Well i seen far more that dislike it and chats are full of complains about it, and how the game is shrinking even more after the rework tells what players wants.
Except the game isn't shrinking? It's been growing in population. You can check the steam charts for proof.
If you gonna take steam as proof then you also have to look at the full picture as well. If i look at last month when new dk came the player base whent down from the month before it. Now ots an popular event going on, of course the player base would go up a bit like it has always done even when subclassing(who is well known to have driven away many player) been around. But if you compare now fram last year at same time its still a downer.0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.
Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?
You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.
Thank you.
I have seen far more people wanting to see other classes brought up to the level of the DK rework than I have seen people crying for nerfs, its genuinely refreshing.
I hope ZOS take note of the 10x ratio on the first comment disagreeing with you.
Well i seen far more that dislike it and chats are full of complains about it, and how the game is shrinking even more after the rework tells what players wants.
Except the game isn't shrinking? It's been growing in population. You can check the steam charts for proof.
If you gonna take steam as proof then you also have to look at the full picture as well. If i look at last month when new dk came the player base whent down from the month before it. Now ots an popular event going on, of course the player base would go up a bit like it has always done even when subclassing(who is well known to have driven away many player) been around. But if you compare now fram last year at same time its still a downer.
Steam charts are a valid way to look at player numbers. No, it's not the entire population, but it is a large sample size.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there were more players a year ago, as Steam Charts show just over 20k in April of 2025, and show just over 20k in April of 2026. There's no difference.
Additionally, you stated that the game is shrinking after the rework, which again, is categorically false. Since the rework released, the playerbase has grown by about 15%.
January 2026 - 16.8k
February 2026 - 17.1k
March 2026 - 17.8k
Last 30 days - 20.2k
Please tell me, where exactly did the numbers above go down? The release of the DK rework pretty clearly coincided with an increase in players, unless you're using some Terrance Howard math where 1*1=0.Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on April 9, 2026 5:19PM5 -
Lixiviant✭✭✭✭✭I like the refresh. I had stopped playing my DK some time ago, but it is nice to be back with the build.
Haven't done any subclassing with this one; just seeing what the difference is between 5 years ago and today.1 -
Militan1404✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.
Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?
You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.
Thank you.
I have seen far more people wanting to see other classes brought up to the level of the DK rework than I have seen people crying for nerfs, its genuinely refreshing.
I hope ZOS take note of the 10x ratio on the first comment disagreeing with you.
Well i seen far more that dislike it and chats are full of complains about it, and how the game is shrinking even more after the rework tells what players wants.
Except the game isn't shrinking? It's been growing in population. You can check the steam charts for proof.
If you gonna take steam as proof then you also have to look at the full picture as well. If i look at last month when new dk came the player base whent down from the month before it. Now ots an popular event going on, of course the player base would go up a bit like it has always done even when subclassing(who is well known to have driven away many player) been around. But if you compare now fram last year at same time its still a downer.
Steam charts are a valid way to look at player numbers. No, it's not the entire population, but it is a large sample size.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there were more players a year ago, as Steam Charts show just over 20k in April of 2025, and show just over 20k in April of 2026. There's no difference.
Additionally, you stated that the game is shrinking after the rework, which again, is categorically false. Since the rework released, the playerbase has grown by about 15%.
January 2026 - 16.8k
February 2026 - 17.1k
March 2026 - 17.8k
Last 30 days - 20.2k
Please tell me, where exactly did the numbers above go down? The release of the DK rework pretty clearly coincided with an increase in players, unless you're using some Terrance Howard math where 1*1=0.
I might look at the wrong list for all i know but her is the average monthly numbers i got
March 2026 - 9635 And is down -296
February 26 - 9931 Up +167
Janurary 26 - 9764 Up +1470
Last 30 days - 10532 Up + 897
March last year - 10,922
And its becouse of event an not dk class.
But could be wrong but thats the nummbers i got for steam charts. And even not proff, i got my ai to check my numbers and got the same numbers.Edited by Militan1404 on April 9, 2026 5:43PM0 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Militan1404 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »
No subclass build could one shot youCalamityCat wrote: »
So I guess you haven't noticed all the subclass builds that have been hitting like a truck for the past year? Because they're still around and still trashing the balance in PvP. Your focus on the DK seems to have conveniently missed that.Incredible.
Everyone is aware of the imbalance but thinks it's normal and asks other players to be patient for two years.
I can't believe it.
The changes are already in game and more are coming, so nobody is having to wait for two years! Though on the subject of patience, as a pure class PvP player I've been killed by the most stupidly OP subclass builds for about a year now. I'm still not screaming that subclassing should be nerfed or deleted. Nor am I complaining about DKs. I'm fighting DKs daily with the same pure builds and going by my logs, subclassers are still hitting insane numbers. From my perspective, the complaints about DKs are hilarious. I find them tough but they're absolutely killable. There is a degree of exaggeration in these PvP nerf threads that I can't always take seriously...
I am genuinely going to enjoy the upcoming "nerf wardens" chorus when my main gets updated though.
I mean this is just categorically false lol. Any build that stacked Spec Bow/Crystal Frags/Tentacular Dread alongside Shalks/Curse/Blastbones/Power of the Light could (and still can) one shot you.
I mean I literally have a subclassed Assassin/Storm/Grave Lord build this patch that can one shot players from range.
Spec bow is another skill that should never been in this game at is current form, that i tought zos would deal with long ago. But still i have yet to be one shoted buy any of those builds and they easy to react to, might be good to take down glass cannons i guess but so could most builds. with DK i just use leap or shattering rocks and and get free wip after becouse of how the skills works and there nothing the other player can do about it becouse of how the skills and animation on them works. On leap you cant do anything before after the animation on it and then the knock back, kind of like the templar javelin used to work. On shattering rocks its like an delay on the skill and until you get stuned so you get a free attack as well, and sometimes its takes even longer like a hard stun in a way where it takes second before you can even do something, witch is a death sentence in pvp. Then its how easy it is to manipulate a dezync into a insta kill on it, that in mine opinion is a exploit if done on purpose. I do that all the time and are not even trying. And thats only some of the problems with it and i think most of them could be fixed with even affecting pve.
Spec bow isn't that much of a problem by itself. I've been combo'd more by skills like shalks with crescent sweep than I have with spec bow. Spec bow can be heard from a mile away and really relies on a stun that can catch someone off guard, otherwise it's going to be blocked or dodged from how obvious its telegraph is. I honestly think blast bones is more dangerous than spec bow.
Regarding DK, you over estimate how effective leap is. Leap will only ever catch inexperienced players. You have a full second to react to the sound effect of leap activating plus your character being forced to stand still. All you have to do is hold block and leap is wasted along with any lined up delayed burst skills. I forget if block reduction is additive, but I'll assume it is. By default, you will block 50% of that burst damage. If you're on your back bar at the time, you will block 70% of that damage. If you're on a DK, you'll block 60% of that damage on your front bar and 80% on your back bar. That's a huge reduction to damage. If you're always getting hit by leap, you only need to practice blocking more. It will be second nature before you know it.
Shattering rocks is trickier to avoid because it requires you to pay attention to the person you're fighting, but it still has an obvious telegraph that I don't believe can be hidden by a bash cancel. If you see them throw down their hand like they're casting barbed trap, you can dodge roll immediately to avoid the stun, but even if you get hit by it, it's not a death sentence unless you get the CC bug that's affecting all stuns, not just shattering rocks.1 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Militan1404 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.
Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?
You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.
Thank you.
I have seen far more people wanting to see other classes brought up to the level of the DK rework than I have seen people crying for nerfs, its genuinely refreshing.
I hope ZOS take note of the 10x ratio on the first comment disagreeing with you.
Well i seen far more that dislike it and chats are full of complains about it, and how the game is shrinking even more after the rework tells what players wants.
Except the game isn't shrinking? It's been growing in population. You can check the steam charts for proof.
If you gonna take steam as proof then you also have to look at the full picture as well. If i look at last month when new dk came the player base whent down from the month before it. Now ots an popular event going on, of course the player base would go up a bit like it has always done even when subclassing(who is well known to have driven away many player) been around. But if you compare now fram last year at same time its still a downer.
Steam charts are a valid way to look at player numbers. No, it's not the entire population, but it is a large sample size.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there were more players a year ago, as Steam Charts show just over 20k in April of 2025, and show just over 20k in April of 2026. There's no difference.
Additionally, you stated that the game is shrinking after the rework, which again, is categorically false. Since the rework released, the playerbase has grown by about 15%.
January 2026 - 16.8k
February 2026 - 17.1k
March 2026 - 17.8k
Last 30 days - 20.2k
Please tell me, where exactly did the numbers above go down? The release of the DK rework pretty clearly coincided with an increase in players, unless you're using some Terrance Howard math where 1*1=0.
I might look at the wrong list for all i know but her is the average monthly numbers i got
March 2026 - 9635 And is down -296
February 26 - 9931 Up +167
Janurary 26 - 9764 Up +1470
Last 30 days - 10532 Up + 897
And its becouse of event an not dk class.
But could be wrong but thats the nummbers i got for steam charts
The steam charts can be confusing to read. You can't go off the month itself, you have to go on the month afterwards. In this case it will be the last 30 days since April only just started. 30 days ago was March 10th which is the day after u49 released, and you can see a spike in population. I doubt this is because of the anniversary because last year and this year's anniversary didn't drop gold mats and 300k+ motifs like candy. The anniversary usually brings in a small spike of players, but if you've been following the player trends, the spike wouldn't have brought in a lot of players if there wasn't any promising news. It very well could have been below 20k if it weren't for the news about the refreshes and u49, but because of that, it's back to where it was for last year at this time. Also steamdb is more accurate than steam charts and is what people go off of when mentioning the population.0 -
Militan1404✭✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »Hello ZOS Combat Team, @ZOS_BrianWheeler
Given the increasing number of complaints regarding the new version of the DragonKnight, I think it's time for a nerf.
Why can't we wait until you update our other classes?
Well, because it would take too long.
We want to play, right?
You can keep the beautiful animations, but reduce its power, however you can, find a way.
Thank you.
I have seen far more people wanting to see other classes brought up to the level of the DK rework than I have seen people crying for nerfs, its genuinely refreshing.
I hope ZOS take note of the 10x ratio on the first comment disagreeing with you.
Well i seen far more that dislike it and chats are full of complains about it, and how the game is shrinking even more after the rework tells what players wants.
Except the game isn't shrinking? It's been growing in population. You can check the steam charts for proof.
If you gonna take steam as proof then you also have to look at the full picture as well. If i look at last month when new dk came the player base whent down from the month before it. Now ots an popular event going on, of course the player base would go up a bit like it has always done even when subclassing(who is well known to have driven away many player) been around. But if you compare now fram last year at same time its still a downer.
Steam charts are a valid way to look at player numbers. No, it's not the entire population, but it is a large sample size.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there were more players a year ago, as Steam Charts show just over 20k in April of 2025, and show just over 20k in April of 2026. There's no difference.
Additionally, you stated that the game is shrinking after the rework, which again, is categorically false. Since the rework released, the playerbase has grown by about 15%.
January 2026 - 16.8k
February 2026 - 17.1k
March 2026 - 17.8k
Last 30 days - 20.2k
Please tell me, where exactly did the numbers above go down? The release of the DK rework pretty clearly coincided with an increase in players, unless you're using some Terrance Howard math where 1*1=0.
I might look at the wrong list for all i know but her is the average monthly numbers i got
March 2026 - 9635 And is down -296
February 26 - 9931 Up +167
Janurary 26 - 9764 Up +1470
Last 30 days - 10532 Up + 897
And its becouse of event an not dk class.
But could be wrong but thats the nummbers i got for steam charts
The steam charts can be confusing to read. You can't go off the month itself, you have to go on the month afterwards. In this case it will be the last 30 days since April only just started. 30 days ago was March 10th which is the day after u49 released, and you can see a spike in population. I doubt this is because of the anniversary because last year and this year's anniversary didn't drop gold mats and 300k+ motifs like candy. The anniversary usually brings in a small spike of players, but if you've been following the player trends, the spike wouldn't have brought in a lot of players if there wasn't any promising news. It very well could have been below 20k if it weren't for the news about the refreshes and u49, but because of that, it's back to where it was for last year at this time. Also steamdb is more accurate than steam charts and is what people go off of when mentioning the population.
Yeah first time i ever checked the steam charts as i dont even play on pc i might have gotten them all wrong. But i that so and i get this right, we cant really see how it is affecting the game before next month or after summer even. Becouse when it got out it had the hype and lived on that a bit, and now the event is going. But then we got next month but summer is closing inn so naturally it would be less players. But when i look at cyro it when from 2-3 bars on prime time to 1bar, so thats what i had been going after. and also seem to be harder to fill groups for trial now then last month, but i doubt DK affects the pve community as much as the pvp. All that could be all diffrent from console to console and region to region for all i know tho.
0 -
Xarc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I don't see how the DK rework would have an impact on an increase in population.
According to steam statistics (which certainly do not represent the entire population of eso, but which are entirely representative), we see that during each winter period there is a drop in the population which increases from spring onwards
You make a link between an increase in the population which happens every year at this time of year with the rework of the dk but this is only an extremely subjective point of view.
Moreover, if we continue the statistical curve, the evolution of ESO seems to be off to a bad start... in 2031 the game is over.
Unless there is a real awakening and I think that's why the ZOS team has changed and that 2026 announces a whole bunch of changes.
The positive point of this graph is that the curve has been more stable since around 2024, less oscillation during the year. my (subjective) analysis is that ESO has a rather loyal and stable player base but which nevertheless diminishes over time.
The team announced that it wanted to listen more to the players, well, that's great but they're still announcements, we all know zenimax and the silence of bethesda.
No doubt the internal restructuring of the team also led to a drop in the number of developers, and that this also explains the decision to stop the chapters and do the class reworks spread over almost 2 years.
I understand but I continue to say that this could have been done without creating too great an imbalance between the new classes and the old ones.
Edited by Xarc on April 9, 2026 7:10PM@xarcs FR-EU-PC -"Death is overrated", Xarc
Xãrc -- breton necro - DC - AvA rank50
Xarcus -- imperial DK - DC - AvA rank50 - pureclass DK
Xärc -- breton NB - DC - AvA rank49 - pureclass NB
Elnaa - breton NB - DC - AvA rank50 - healer
Isilenil - Altmer NB - AD - AvA rank41 - pureclass NB
Felisja - Bosmer NB - DC - AvA rank43 - pureclass NB
Sarah Cénia - Bosmer DK - DC - AvA rank23
Glàdys - redguard templar - DC - AvA rank40 - pureclass Templar
Xaljaa - breton NB - now EP - AvA rank40
Coquelìcot - breton NB - EP - AvA rank26
+ 10 other characters
* in game: since April 2014
* forum: since December 20143 -
Estin✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I don't see how the DK rework would have an impact on an increase in population.
According to steam statistics (which certainly do not represent the entire population of eso, but which are entirely representative), we see that during each winter period there is a drop in the population which increases from spring onwards
You make a link between an increase in the population which happens every year at this time of year with the rework of the dk but this is only an extremely subjective point of view.
Moreover, if we continue the statistical curve, the evolution of ESO seems to be off to a bad start... in 2031 the game is over.
Unless there is a real awakening and I think that's why the ZOS team has changed and that 2026 announces a whole bunch of changes.
The positive point of this graph is that the curve has been more stable since around 2024, less oscillation during the year. my (subjective) analysis is that ESO has a rather loyal and stable player base but which nevertheless diminishes over time.
The team announced that it wanted to listen more to the players, well, that's great but they're still announcements, we all know zenimax and the silence of bethesda.
No doubt the internal restructuring of the team also led to a drop in the number of developers, and that this also explains the decision to stop the chapters and do the class reworks spread over almost 2 years.
I understand but I continue to say that this could have been done without creating too great an imbalance between the new classes and the old ones.
The reason why the DK rework had an impact is because ESO has been on a heavy downward trend since last year, and the annual boost in population that happens in April should not have been as high as it is if it kept following that trend. Instead, we got multiple good news regarding the future of ESO in December as well as U49 having the most successful PTS cycle the game has seen in years. Those words have gotten around to people who have left the game which has caused them to come back to check things out and is why the current population is only down by 600 from last year instead of 3-5000 had things kept going the way they were before the news in December. This means the game is now starting to see an upward trend again.
If ZOS ends up nerfing DK to the point where it's behind subclassed builds again all because of a hand full of impatient and upset players, it's going to jeopardize the entire class refreshes, and you can expect to see the downward trend to return. People were tired of the stale meta both in PvE and PvP and want to play pure classes. The majority of them are completely fine with temporary class imbalance if it means the game will become fresh again. I can tell you right now in PvE that the low APM beam meta has finally been pushed out by a much higher APM flame lash meta. U50 is going to bring all pure classes up to at least subclassed builds, and U51 onward is going to further change the meta and gameplay for good as long as ZOS sticks to the same philosophy they had with the DK refresh rather than falling back to their heavy handed nerfs and spreadsheet balancing all because of hand full of unhappy players.8 -
Xarc✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I don't see how the DK rework would have an impact on an increase in population.
According to steam statistics (which certainly do not represent the entire population of eso, but which are entirely representative), we see that during each winter period there is a drop in the population which increases from spring onwards
You make a link between an increase in the population which happens every year at this time of year with the rework of the dk but this is only an extremely subjective point of view.
Moreover, if we continue the statistical curve, the evolution of ESO seems to be off to a bad start... in 2031 the game is over.
Unless there is a real awakening and I think that's why the ZOS team has changed and that 2026 announces a whole bunch of changes.
The positive point of this graph is that the curve has been more stable since around 2024, less oscillation during the year. my (subjective) analysis is that ESO has a rather loyal and stable player base but which nevertheless diminishes over time.
The team announced that it wanted to listen more to the players, well, that's great but they're still announcements, we all know zenimax and the silence of bethesda.
No doubt the internal restructuring of the team also led to a drop in the number of developers, and that this also explains the decision to stop the chapters and do the class reworks spread over almost 2 years.
I understand but I continue to say that this could have been done without creating too great an imbalance between the new classes and the old ones.
The reason why the DK rework had an impact
what impact ? This is a slight NORMAL increase that happens every year.
We are even very far from the stats of 2 years ago, for the moment we are even 10k below, I don't know where you INVENT a comeback
the DK rework has absolutely no impact, nor the announcements made in December. For now the stats continue to be bad for ESO.
Edited by Xarc on April 9, 2026 8:12PM@xarcs FR-EU-PC -"Death is overrated", Xarc
Xãrc -- breton necro - DC - AvA rank50
Xarcus -- imperial DK - DC - AvA rank50 - pureclass DK
Xärc -- breton NB - DC - AvA rank49 - pureclass NB
Elnaa - breton NB - DC - AvA rank50 - healer
Isilenil - Altmer NB - AD - AvA rank41 - pureclass NB
Felisja - Bosmer NB - DC - AvA rank43 - pureclass NB
Sarah Cénia - Bosmer DK - DC - AvA rank23
Glàdys - redguard templar - DC - AvA rank40 - pureclass Templar
Xaljaa - breton NB - now EP - AvA rank40
Coquelìcot - breton NB - EP - AvA rank26
+ 10 other characters
* in game: since April 2014
* forum: since December 20142 -
Jammy420✭✭✭✭✭
✭Does anyone have a link for the refresh timeline / schedule? Cannot seem to find it myself in the search.0 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Does anyone have a link for the refresh timeline / schedule? Cannot seem to find it myself in the search.
Don’t have the graphic handy but it’s:
U49: DK
U50: Werewolf
U51: Warden
U52: Sorc
U53: Templar
U54: NB
U55: Necro
U56: Arc
We’ll probably also get the weapon line refreshes in there too, but that wasn’t announced.
Edit: here’s the 2026 roadmap: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/roadmap
The 2027 Class refresh schedule was shown in the January stream, but obviously that didn’t say much since it’s so far out.Edited by tomofhyrule on April 10, 2026 12:19AM0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭AllenaNightWood wrote: »you cant even begin to ask for nerfs on anything until refreshes are done on all classes to see where everything sits
You can't even begin to ask for nerfs on anything until SUBCLASSING has been nerfed.
I fixed it for you.
So long as what they are balancing the reworked classes against is broken, the reworks are ALSO going to be broken. They need to fix what is broken first, and THEN rework/rebalance the classes. This is the only step that makes sense.4 -
BXR_Lonestar wrote: »AllenaNightWood wrote: »you cant even begin to ask for nerfs on anything until refreshes are done on all classes to see where everything sits
You can't even begin to ask for nerfs on anything until SUBCLASSING has been nerfed.
I fixed it for you.
So long as what they are balancing the reworked classes against is broken, the reworks are ALSO going to be broken. They need to fix what is broken first, and THEN rework/rebalance the classes. This is the only step that makes sense.
Or just remove it entirely1
