Goblin's Delight :( (spoilers, I guess.)

ShutUpitsRed · April 5

In which I lament the vestige being a dumb yes-man with no soul (lol) regarding the Cyrodiil quest, "Goblin's Delight" in Cropsford, Cyrodiil, where you assist a man's nosy neighbor in poisoning his pet/friend to death. That's it, apparently. This is not very delightful at all. I've had my hangups and sighs about player agency and choices in ESO before (I

mowing down the enthralled and enslaved en masse

Wrothgar was... something.) but this seems especially... dark? Needlessly cruel? Out of character? I feel like the one guy in Frostvault talking about goblin welfare but we've been shown on numerous occasions they're at least semi-sentient, so not only is it borderline murder, but the dialogue shows it means a lot to the guy too so... I just feel like I'm helping someone go nuclear Karen on a political refugee's dog, because she doesn't like the dog. At best.

Starting to second guess going through and finishing achievements. This quest is required for several. Feels bad man.

SolidBeast · April 5

I've never completed this quest because the very prompt to do it seemed unhinged to me. Why the hell would I do that?

LunaFlora · April 5

i also hate that quest, wish it had the choice to kill the quest giver instead

YandereGirlfriend · April 6

LunaFlora wrote: »

i also hate that quest, wish it had the choice to kill the quest giver instead

I, too, would like to go "Full Morrowind" on the quest-giver.

katanagirl1 · April 8

Yeah, it would have been nice to have another option and a different resolution. There are a few quests like that, but not many thankfully.

ArchangelIsraphel · April 8

LunaFlora wrote: »

i also hate that quest, wish it had the choice to kill the quest giver instead

This. And seeing as it's Cyrodiil, I don't understand why we can't. It isn't as though the law would be after our character, and we've been given the option before to put certain characters to death.

Perhaps something to discuss with @ZOS_Kira? A small rework of this quest to chose another option would be interesting!

barney2525 · April 8

well, ya gotta figure that no soul means you can't be Corrupted. There is nothing to corrupt. So, it follows that the character may become Amoral and no longer have strong feelings for others. Kinda like the Masquerade Vampire game. The older a vampire gets, they get used to seeing mortal friends and associates die. It becomes the natural cycle. They become detached from humanity. The oldest cling to their personal Code, such as Honor to keep themselves from becoming self-destructive once they no longer care about whether people live or die.

So get yer soul back and skip this quest

AetherialXL · April 8

Wait till you guys here of the dark brotherhood...

spartaxoxo · April 8

AetherialXL wrote: »

Wait till you guys here of the dark brotherhood...

The Dark Brotherhood even feels less pointlessly cruel to do than this quest. The Dark Brotherhood at least has that cult-y found family vibe to it where it feels like there's a purpose to the killing. And ofc many targets are genuinely corrupt or dangers. This seems like helping a Karen for literally no reason. I actually struggle to think of a quest I liked less than this one in ESO.

umagon · April 8

AetherialXL wrote: »

Wait till you guys here of the dark brotherhood...

I don’t know why players care about morality with somethings. You spend most of the game murdering everything in your path. Just send them to void and let Padomay sort them out.

Fischblut · April 8

I dislike killing any NPC creatures, sentient or not - but it's a game, and loot/quests/experience is tied to this

People who design the mob placement and interactions do really good job in ESO - I often observe how humanoid and animal NPCs do their cute stuff in the wild, and sometimes (when I don't need particular loot or something from those mobs) I just don't have a heart to interfere in this illusion of life

But if people ask to give alternate options to old quests now, I also wish to ask for some other options in at least 2 little quests (Summerset about the lost dog and The Reach about the lost rabbit) which involve quest givers caring about their pets more than about their spouses... But then again, killing those quest givers wouldn't make me feel better and wouldn't help their spouses in any way

One husband is dead, and other seems to enjoy his weird relationship.

but this seems especially... dark? Needlessly cruel? Out of character?

Out of character for our Vestiges who kill thousands of fully-sentient humanoid NPCs for loot and experience? We are ruthless monsters for many of Tamriel's inhabitants!
It reminds me of the book "I, legend":

main character saw vampires as monsters who destroyed the civilization, while vampires formed the new civilization and saw the main character as horrible monster. Main character PoV vs NPCs PoV!

Also, "Goblin's Delight" quest takes place in the area where another quest giver has daily for killing random goblin skirmishers. These goblins are just as much semi-sentient as that goblin from the non-repeatable quest

I did this quest many years ago, so I might forget details... I think the reasoning of the quest giver for "Delight" was that while goblins terrorize the towns folk, the new man insisted on keeping one of goblins as pet. Goblin itself seemed harmless cause he was being fed by the man.

I can see two different PoVs of both NPCs - one is afraid, other just wants to have a pet. I wonder about 3rd PoV of the goblin itself.
But if there was an option to kill quest giver like some people ask here (which adds even more cruelty to this quest, which is kind of opposite of what people want?..), it would not make me feel any better - outcome would be sad in any way.

Wait till you guys here of the dark brotherhood...

Exactly! I did main quest 1 time for achievements and story. And I really dislike that I have to do some Dark Brotherhood stuff for Shadow Rider passive on every character...

But I wouldn't even think about complaining - the passive is too amazing to not unlock.

This picture disturbs me more than "Goblin's Delight" ever could:

While I was hunting critters and hostile mobs in the wilds, some players were ok with destroying lives of innocent humanoid NPCs again and again

This town looked unpleasant, but if not for this thread, I would just keep these thoughts to myself.

The Dark Brotherhood at least has that cult-y found family vibe to it where it feels like there's a purpose to the killing.

If that goblin was a contract target for Dark Brotherhood, would that add "purpose" and suddenly make killing it acceptable?
Have you read the book with daily contracts and their "reasoning"? For example, merchant selling drinking water with parasites wants to silence the customer who warns others about it...

I always saw DB as group of maniacs, and in Skyrim I ended them for good (not sure if it was vanilla or a mod which allowed to do this during or just after the intro quest, cause it was many years ago). So ESO making Dark Brotherhood too involved in gameplay to skip hurts my personal human morals...
I do not judge and I'm all for gameplay options for every taste! But it doesn't change the truth about Dark Brotherhood - they try to act high, while their core is based on lust for blood and gold.
...I might have the statue of Night Mother in my Chateau, and I can't explain this fact

whitecrow · April 8

I know the quest to just kill x goblins, but I don't remember this one at all. Who gives it?

katanagirl1 · April 9

Fischblut wrote: »

I dislike killing any NPC creatures, sentient or not - but it's a game, and loot/quests/experience is tied to this
People who design the mob placement and interactions do really good job in ESO - I often observe how humanoid and animal NPCs do their cute stuff in the wild, and sometimes (when I don't need particular loot or something from those mobs) I just don't have a heart to interfere in this illusion of life

But if people ask to give alternate options to old quests now, I also wish to ask for some other options in at least 2 little quests (Summerset about the lost dog and The Reach about the lost rabbit) which involve quest givers caring about their pets more than about their spouses... But then again, killing those quest givers wouldn't make me feel better and wouldn't help their spouses in any way
One husband is dead, and other seems to enjoy his weird relationship.

but this seems especially... dark? Needlessly cruel? Out of character?

Out of character for our Vestiges who kill thousands of fully-sentient humanoid NPCs for loot and experience? We are ruthless monsters for many of Tamriel's inhabitants!
It reminds me of the book "I, legend":
main character saw vampires as monsters who destroyed the civilization, while vampires formed the new civilization and saw the main character as horrible monster. Main character PoV vs NPCs PoV!

Also, "Goblin's Delight" quest takes place in the area where another quest giver has daily for killing random goblin skirmishers. These goblins are just as much semi-sentient as that goblin from the non-repeatable quest

I did this quest many years ago, so I might forget details... I think the reasoning of the quest giver for "Delight" was that while goblins terrorize the towns folk, the new man insisted on keeping one of goblins as pet. Goblin itself seemed harmless cause he was being fed by the man.

I can see two different PoVs of both NPCs - one is afraid, other just wants to have a pet. I wonder about 3rd PoV of the goblin itself.
But if there was an option to kill quest giver like some people ask here (which adds even more cruelty to this quest, which is kind of opposite of what people want?..), it would not make me feel any better - outcome would be sad in any way.

Wait till you guys here of the dark brotherhood...

Exactly! I did main quest 1 time for achievements and story. And I really dislike that I have to do some Dark Brotherhood stuff for Shadow Rider passive on every character... But I wouldn't even think about complaining - the passive is too amazing to not unlock.

This picture disturbs me more than "Goblin's Delight" ever could:

While I was hunting critters and hostile mobs in the wilds, some players were ok with destroying lives of innocent humanoid NPCs again and again This town looked unpleasant, but if not for this thread, I would just keep these thoughts to myself.

The Dark Brotherhood at least has that cult-y found family vibe to it where it feels like there's a purpose to the killing.

If that goblin was a contract target for Dark Brotherhood, would that add "purpose" and suddenly make killing it acceptable?
Have you read the book with daily contracts and their "reasoning"? For example, merchant selling drinking water with parasites wants to silence the customer who warns others about it...

I always saw DB as group of maniacs, and in Skyrim I ended them for good (not sure if it was vanilla or a mod which allowed to do this during or just after the intro quest, cause it was many years ago). So ESO making Dark Brotherhood too involved in gameplay to skip hurts my personal human morals...
I do not judge and I'm all for gameplay options for every taste! But it doesn't change the truth about Dark Brotherhood - they try to act high, while their core is based on lust for blood and gold.
...I might have the statue of Night Mother in my Chateau, and I can't explain this fact

Well I personally wasn’t advocating for killing the questgiver, I was thinking of an option to let us turn the tables on them or something like that.

I had to laugh whenever I did the DB quests. The Speaker is just so serious about his position and the importance of the Daedric murder cult. I guess it would be a way to somehow keep the more violent murderers under their control and not running amok in society. Some players really get into it though.

EDIT: typo

spartaxoxo · April 9

Fischblut wrote: »

If that goblin was a contract target for Dark Brotherhood, would that add "purpose" and suddenly make killing it acceptable? Have you read the book with daily contracts and their "reasoning"? For example, merchant selling drinking water with parasites wants to silence the customer who warns others about it...

I always saw DB as group of maniacs, and in Skyrim I ended them for good (not sure if it was vanilla or a mod which allowed to do this during or just after the intro quest, cause it was many years ago). So ESO making Dark Brotherhood too involved in gameplay to skip hurts my personal human morals...
I do not judge and I'm all for gameplay options for every taste! But it doesn't change the truth about Dark Brotherhood - they try to act high, while their core is based on lust for blood and gold.
...I might have the statue of Night Mother in my Chateau, and I can't explain this fact

Yeah, actually, it would make it feel more purposeful. Because it would serve Sithis. Tamriel isn't the real word so there's all kinds of magic and otherwordly beings who exert force on the world and who are pleased or displeased by certain actions. I'm not saying the Dark Brotherhood are good guys or anything. They're probably one of the most straightforwardly evil guilds in the franchise. But they are punished for betraying the guild with death. So, refusing contracts isn't a something they do lightly. The Dark Brotherhood often includes members who have been harmed or rejected by society as well. Some of their contracts are arbitrary or obviously unjust, such as your example. They also get a lot of contracts on people who are causing problems in their societies, such as corrupt priests, abusive caretakers, etc.

In-universe, the Dark Brotherhood serves a purpose of getting rid of people that Tamriel's often corrupt justice system will not and appeasing an otherworldly being.

Out of universe, the Dark Brotherhood gives the writers the opportunity to showcase the seedier side of Tamriel that makes the world feel more realistic despite the fantasy angle. They add a shade of moral complexity to the world of Tamriel because as bad as they are, often times their targets are worse. And having them there gives the writers an easy to show what less powerful citizens have to deal while keeping these details underneath the surface so that the game isn't relentlessly grimdark.

With this Goblin's Delight quest, the only thing happens in universe is some poor sod loses their pet.

Out of universe it just shows us that there are karens in the world of Tamriel too. There's no complexity to this interaction at all. A guy has a dangerous pet, and his neighbor hates it, so she gets it killed. The end. Most people in the game don't keep goblins as pets. So, this isn't telling us much about their society. The interactions with the NPCs are very rote and straightforward as it's just a very brief filler quest. So, it doesn't serve as a character study as to why someone would act the way either of them behaves. We don't even get to know much about the goblin. It could have at least added some complexity to the goblins hanging around the town. Was this one more intelligent? Was this one friendly or is this guy just delulu? Was he going to be in danger if he stopped giving it the food it wanted? Do the goblins have more to them than just the guys raiding the town? Who knows? The quest certainly doesn't care.

All in all, I think both in universe and out, the Dark Brotherhood feels cruel but not necessarily pointlessly cruel. The Goblin's Delight quest on the other hand just feels like pointlessly cruel filler to have something dark happen in a fetch quest. YMMV OFC.