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Probably the most unfun patch for PvP if you’re not playing DK
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xylena✭✭✭✭✭
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Thank god we finally reached one of the root problems.a build that has VD
I'm on a bomb build and nuking
Nuke VD (and Acuity) you immediately nuke a huge chunk of the garbage one shotting.
The only players losing anything are pug stompers (good, they can rot in Coldharbour).PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭
You're misreading what I said. This has nothing to do with VD one shotting. I showed 2 clips of nuking other DKs in duel builds with VD front bar. VD literally does not even function here, yet I am able to still do enough damage to kill properly built players. Essentially, I am demonstrating just how strong DK is compared to other classes. I am basically giving up an entire 5th bonus and still having enough damage to 100-0 people.
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NxJoeyD✭✭✭For example I am using @React 's VD build for dueling in Stormhaven. 2 duels so far and I'm already nuking people with VD front bar:
https://youtu.be/FO7p_t1fvoU
https://youtu.be/ZTL2f41DXwk
My defensive stats:
Technically it's not 1 GCD but it's still within 2 GCDs, and for a build that has VD front bar, what is the difference anyway lol? I'm on a bomb build and nuking people specced for duels while barely having any experience on the class.
It looks like in both cases it's taking around 3 to 4 GCD to kill your opponent. That's pretty good but that's also on par with the crit meta which was the point of the DK refresh, to bring the class power in-line with current sublcassing performance, which it looks like they did.
I would also question whether your opponents were properly built. Neither of us could answer that but based on the amount of damage that you were registering (especially on crit) I would say it looks like they weren't. A properly built player in PvP would have more CC and more persistent healing / HoT than either of them did.
That has nothing to do with you or your build, it's good; just that there are people out there who duel who really aren't well built for current PvP.Edited by NxJoeyD on March 19, 2026 12:21PM2 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Major_Mangle wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot a properly built player; emphasis on the properly built.
VD scales off the number of players it affects, so in order to scale to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then scales its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.
You can, and I've done it in game
How are you getting VD to "one shot" in a duel when the set requires a kill in order to proc? You'd win the duel before the set can proc .. that doesn't make any sense.
Because DK is that strong. I'll show a clip sometime later.
DK has nothing to do with it.
I don’t think you understand. The Vicious Death gear set cannot apply any damage until after a player kill is made, that’s what triggers it.
In a duel, that means that Vicious Death could not do anything to your opponent until after they were already dead.
This is what I mean by Vicious Death cannot one shot in a duel because it cannot affect in a duel, it can’t proc.
The point he's making from my understanding is that DK is on a powerscale so far ahead that you can essentially "waste" a 5 piece bonus (like VD in a 1v1) and still achieving burst damage high enough to 1 tap someone on a proper build within a GCD.
His comment was “these VD builds can one shot” implying that it was the VD set that was yielding the kill, which is why I thought he was talking about the set proc.
As for DK power scale, that’s debatable. DK is stronger after the re-work, for sure. In PvP crit is king and if a player is properly built then nobody is going to one shot them, not even a DK. A player that’s not properly built, sure, a DK can one shot them but so can a number of subclassed builds running crit + Merciless.
My character, for example, I’m not a crit focus but I’m properly built, no build has ever one shot me, including DKs. I can take crit Merciless even with major & minor breach .. so anyone who’s getting one tapped in PvP, no, they’re not properly built.
Thank you.
As someone who's gone #3 & #1 in the previous two dueling tournaments I've participated in it really pains me to see people think that you can just have any random gear on and do well against properly built opponents.
Truth is you have to min-max everything just to not lose or stalemate for 6+ minutes, which still happens, after which you remove defensive CPs, red CPs etc just to have the duel end. Someone dying in one GCD isn't properly built, period.
I get that people want to think their builds are "the best" and what not, but it doesn't make a bomber (a VD build) into something that it isn't.
The funniest thing is that a properly built open world build should be even tankier than a normal dueling setup since you're building to survive multiple opponents...1 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭Urzigurumash wrote: »prior to U49 a StamDK.
I would say StamDK went extinct in the wild about 5 years ago, and the remaining geriatrics in captivity departed with the change to Take Flight, Corrosive, Noxious, Venomous Claw, AND Stonefist to Flame Damage. Maybe this idea of "Martial"=Stam and Magical=Mag is long gone, but anyhow...
From a certain POV Monomyth diminishes the necessity of Major Resolve, since per my memory/testing Major Protection is perfectly equivalent to Major Resolve (same goes for Breach and Berserk). Me I wear Chudan a lot, but I hate it 😂
But yeah EH is now a Crit Line too, surprisingly. First time DK has ever had any unique modifier to Crit whatsoever.
Fair take on stamdk, I’m just really trying hard with that character I guess, the two hand update had me pumped but it is in fact still garbo."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭For example I am using @React 's VD build for dueling in Stormhaven. 2 duels so far and I'm already nuking people with VD front bar:https://youtu.be/FO7p_t1fvoUhttps://youtu.be/ZTL2f41DXwk
My defensive stats:
Technically it's not 1 GCD but it's still within 2 GCDs, and for a build that has VD front bar, what is the difference anyway lol? I'm on a bomb build and nuking people specced for duels while barely having any experience on the class.
It looks like in both cases it's taking around 3 to 4 GCD to kill your opponent. That's pretty good but that's also on par with the crit meta which was the point of the DK refresh, to bring the class power in-line with current sublcassing performance, which it looks like they did.
I would also question whether your opponents were properly built. Neither of us could answer that but based on the amount of damage that you were registering (especially on crit) I would say it looks like they weren't. A properly built player in PvP would have more CC and more persistent healing / HoT than either of them did.
That has nothing to do with you or your build, it's good; just that there are people out there who duel who really aren't well built for current PvP.
My guy, I had VD front bar.0 -
Markytous✭✭✭✭✭
Streak is still a highly popular skill right now. Seeing Streak and Critical Surge (Overload on gank builds?) is quite common all over ESO PVP. Dark Deal isn't gone from player builds either. Subclass meta players are still using Stormcalling just like they have since the onset of the mechanic.In BGs we’re all still seeing Merciless, Fissure, Surprise, Whirling, Javelin, Comet, and either Netch or Falcon all on constant repeat. None of those skills are Sorc.
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Major_Toughness✭✭✭✭✭Major_Toughness wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »
PvP has been difficult for Sorcs for some time, let alone base Sorcs. I wouldn’t say PvP is unplayable for us but it’s definitely more difficult that’s for sure.
Sorcs have been S tier longer than any other class for pvp historically.
Sorcs had been, yes, once upon a time .. but that hasn't been true since well before Subclassing.
Sorc is by far the second strongest pure class, and even in U48 (last patch) you could dominate Cyro & BGs as a pure magsorc. I was doing as well on pure magsorc, as I was on subclassed builds, as not even a good sorc player, so were others.
That’s highly debatable. When it comes to BGs especially it’s partly determined where you fall within MMR as to what caliber of player and mechanics you’re going to end up against.
U46 saw players able to pair skills and mechanics in ways that reduced or eliminated counterplay, unless, you were also subclassed to deal with them. (See Crit, see gap closers, see buff / debuff).
In BGs we’re all still seeing Merciless, Fissure, Surprise, Whirling, Javelin, Comet, and either Netch or Falcon all on constant repeat. None of those skills are Sorc. To say pure magsorc is still dominant is, maybe, short sighted. If Sorc skills were competitive everyone would be running out to get them, but they’re not.
In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
As a pure class, Sorcs didn’t (and still don’t) have the verisitlty to match the power creep after U46. In PvP crit became even more dominating and Sorcs aren’t inherently a crit modifying class. Plus, many skill in the Sorc tool kit either had limited range (5m) or required the attacker to stand-in-the-stupid which is easily avoidable. Sorcs also don’t bring the main, key, buffs & debuffs sought in PvP.
As for DKs, the changes only highlight the power creep I’ve spoken of. The net changes to DK have resulted in skills that have higher performance than they did before, which makes sense, as the Devs admitted that subclassing outperforms base classes in PvP.
I mean picking up DK lines in U49 is understandable, and I haven't played pure sorc this patch, as I was using Magma Fist which is really fun.
During the latest DM weekend in high MMR, I must have gone like 200-5 on the first day, won every game usually most damage, as a pure magsorc.
Problem is, while it's not hard to play, it's not as easy to play as the Restoring Light/Storm Calling, Animals Companions, Assassination builds.
Don't mistake ease of play and popularity for strength. Obviously currently DK is the most popular and easily the strongest. But I bet some subclass builds that are stronger will be out soon.MAKE AZUREBLIGHT GREAT AGAIN
PC EU > You1 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
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His comment was “these VD builds can one shot” implying that it was the VD set that was yielding the kill, which is why I thought he was talking about the set proc.
As for DK power scale, that’s debatable. DK is stronger after the re-work, for sure. In PvP crit is king and if a player is properly built then nobody is going to one shot them, not even a DK. A player that’s not properly built, sure, a DK can one shot them but so can a number of subclassed builds running crit + Merciless.
My character, for example, I’m not a crit focus but I’m properly built, no build has ever one shot me, including DKs. I can take crit Merciless even with major & minor breach .. so anyone who’s getting one tapped in PvP, no, they’re not properly built.
You misunderstood what I meant, even though I went on to list out the sources of damage contributing to the "one shot" I was referring to.On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashesAs someone who's gone #3 & #1 in the previous two dueling tournaments I've participated in it really pains me to see people think that you can just have any random gear on and do well against properly built opponents.
Truth is you have to min-max everything just to not lose or stalemate for 6+ minutes, which still happens, after which you remove defensive CPs, red CPs etc just to have the duel end. Someone dying in one GCD isn't properly built, period.
I get that people want to think their builds are "the best" and what not, but it doesn't make a bomber (a VD build) into something that it isn't.
The funniest thing is that a properly built open world build should be even tankier than a normal dueling setup since you're building to survive multiple opponents...
Deci, I feel like you are purposefully misrepresenting what I said.
Obviously if you pull up to stormhaven/alikr wearing vicious death to fight people on dueling builds, you are going to lose. Not disputing that. I'm not sitting at the dueling area in vicious death to try to prove a point.
I'm saying that in open world using this build, I have personally done over 35k+ burst to people who are in tanky, open world builds. Refer to the quote above again for all of the things you can fit into one GCD (forgot to mention the 1k+ shatterspike ticks and the 500-1k quick cloak ticks as well). Sure you can argue it isn't likely due to crit chance and whatnot and that is true, but that doesn't change the fact that it is possible, which is the point I am trying to make here.
This version of DK is so strong that you can make a setup with high enough resists to tank 1vX (4k+ crit resist, 40k+ resists), enough sustain to NEVER run out (stacking 29k mag and 22k stam with 33k HP = easy, infinite sustain via heart of flame), TONS of self healing, and enough damage that you can kill most targets in open world while using a set like vicious death that doesn't offer any single target DPS increase.
It isn't a bomber. It is the pinnacle of a "1vX" build because unlike my other setups using oakfather, medusa, twice fanged, hrothgar, kyn, trickery, or similar - this one can actually potentially wipe the 10-20 man everyday-cyroidiil zerg that tries to chase you down solo. No other 1vX build in the history of the game has been capable of doing that without being some glass cannon, one and done bomber that just falls over if it fails to nuke everybody on the first attempt.Edited by React on March 19, 2026 2:12PM@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster4 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
Are you talking about PvE???
In PvP If you’re dropping SC you’re picking up a skill line that offers major resolve, like Earthen Heart (the only DK line you didn’t mention). SC, EH, and RL are the go to utility skill lines, EH is new on this list.
No I’m talking about PvP.
And I don’t disagree that EH is now also on the list .. but .. also remember that crit is the current meta so most of what I’m seeing from the DK subclassing choices are damage skills as opposed to defensive buffs.
One could get away without having Major Resolve if they’re running a strong HoT that’s hitting crits near every tick. Resolve is good but it’s not the only way to mitigate damage in PvP nowdays. I don’t see a lot of players in top tier PvP putting as much resource into pen as they do into crit so I can see why Resolve is a good choice but in the grand scheme if one can slot Flame Lash instead I can see why they might pivot over to that, or at least slot it to try.
EH also gives crit dmg and has Corrosive. Sorry dude I guess we’re seeing different things.
EH gives crit, yes, but only when casting an EH ability.
Most hardcore crit meta builds run Contigency or Soul burst as their self heal burst plus self HoT; which grants minor resolve. Some lean on Vigor as it scales pretty high and grants major resolve.
Prior to the DK refresh players were already able to achieve above max crit modifier scaling with easily 80%+ frequency. .. EH would be worthwhile to consider but mostly if one wasn’t already using a scribed skill which brings a lot to the table in PvP.
EH is a good skill line but many of these hard hitting builds want heavy bursts. I’ve seen some CA used but not many, rather, Take Flight is much more popular from what I’m seeing. And that makes sense because anyone with a strong HoT is going to offset a good amount of Corrosive Armors damage; CA may bypass resistance but it doesn’t ignore healing .. whereas one Take Flight + one Merciless is going to chunk nearly anyone’s health bar, regardless of HoT ticks, especially from a max crit build.
So yeah, I suppose we’re seeing different things.
Not trying to be rude, but there’s some misinformation in your post.
Also, I don’t know what side of the fence you’re on, I’m not on the nerf DK train, make every class into a beast the game will be more fun that way. You’re sleeping on EH though, it’s passives are nasty for a utility skill line."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations1 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »BXR_Lonestar wrote: »BXR_Lonestar wrote: »Returning PvP-Player here. Quit PvP after they announced subclassing, returned when I heard about the coming pure class buffs. But after playing with my magplar and getting absolutely nuked by dks, I don't even want to imagine how OP they will be with those buffs on top.
I don't think they'll be able to balance this game at this point. Just going to enjoy the other aspects of the game, PvP is just not fun anymore unless you play meta ig.
They're trying to tapdance around subclassing. They know subclassing is broken, but because there are some people who like it, they either lack the authority or the resolve to admit that subclassing was a mistake and to remove it (along with other mistakes like scribing and hybridization), and so the only way they can make pureclassing more attractive is if they make pureclassing broken-strong too. Because they're not nerfing what pure-classing is competing against, they're just trying to one-up it. So it was always going to be this way.
And it is just going to be like Destiny's revolving meta with the way they are going to keep releasing updates to pureclass - every class will get its day so to speak, and everyone will be playing those classes.
While I think the pure class updates are a great step in the right direction, I don't think they can fix this game while they continue to leave things they KNOW are a problem broken and still in the game. So I've dialed back how much I'm playing the game, and may end up focusing on other single player games or other ES Titles.
I'm with you on this. Reading between the lines on their actions IMO I think old leadership was chasing the Korean MMO trends of one toon to "do all the things" and current leadership is like... nah fam we are ESO... class identity has always been our bread and butter.
I do think they are trying to unwind it without going full removing it. Removing it IMO would be better long term for them but... I think they are in a delicate place ATM where it's hard to convince people in the boardroom that this is the direction we need to head.. so you end up in this middle area of... well lets rework classes and bring back some class identity.
I actually came back after a year off because of U49 and am having a blast. Yes, I'm a DK and PvP is filled with DKs but... we always do this dance right? Each update the meta gets shifted and people chase that new meta. Every game is like this... it's just a wave that comes and goes. Give it a few weeks or another update passes and things will settle.
I'm seeing a lot of non DK skills on my recap for what it is worth and some of these non DK builds hit like a friggin truck.
Those non-DK's that are hitting like a truck are either using some exploits that allow you to stack multiple mundus stones or multiple 5 piece sets (they do exist), or they're subclassed and using one of a tiny handful of builds that have disgusting burst, or both. There is so much busted/broken stuff in PVP right now with glitched shield tosses that will lock you down with no way to break free, to pulls using charm so there is zero defense to getting pulled (and hence, zero way to help your teammates survive). Its honestly driven me away from the game. This stuff is no longer fun to play.
And while I hear rumors of vengeance becoming a permanent server, I don't think that is the answer either because the last few rounds of vengeance have not been fun either. PVP right now just feels like if you're not cheesing it or if you aren't abusing some kind of exploit, your not being competitive, and that just isn't the way I play, so I'm basically just dialing back how much I play this game altogether. At some point they will be forced to start dialing back the power and addressing these issues, but until they do, I'm content to play elsewhere.
I play pure NB and can still hit hard like a truck. You don't need to subclass 2-3 damage skill lines to hit hard. Even without monomyth, just having null arca on is enough to do a stupid amount of damage to someone because your spammable is almost always going to be critting, and when your spammable lands at the same time null arca procs, you can bring someone from full to less than half hp instantly, to which spec bow or your execute would finish the job. I can even use order's wrath instead of null arca and achieve similar results. Not everyone who is hitting hard is cheating or using broken subclassed setups.
Pure NB is one of the very few classes capable of doing this though.
And I realize that not every average Joe is doing something unscrupulous when they destroy you with a good burst combo. I've played enough PVP to see what good comboing can do. The problem is when you run into the same group of guys and you steamroll them 3-4 times in a row, and then all of a sudden they can't be killed, they can barely be damaged, and then all of a sudden can burst you down with the same 2-3 hit combo that was hitting like a wet noodle just a half-hour before. When that happens, its really suspect.
You can honestly do well on every pure class except necro and arcanist. Will they struggle against a meta subclassed build? Usually, but skill does more than what a meta build provides, and those players can still easily die to someone who is skilled in their pure class.
When it comes to someone suddenly becoming invincible and strong, there needs to be more context. In BGs, it can because of many things such as the power ups or a pvp healer. Cyrodiil it can be because of the 20% healing buff near a keep plus a continuous assault buff. Those two do a lot. But if it's neither of those and the player hasn't changed their build and is without a healer, it could be something fishy. I know Xbox has a twice born star bug plaguing the game, as well as all platforms having a bug with the armory. Why those haven't been patched yet is beyond me, but the amount of people abusing bugs is pretty low.
Anyway, to not detract from the main topic, I do hope ZOS doesn't get cold feet and nerfs DK just because it's the strongest pure class in the game right now. Nerfing it, especially this early, would defeat the whole purpose of the class reworks. U50 is going to help decrease the power difference between dk and the rest of the classes until they can all be reworked. It's honestly not a long wait at all. I'll be severely disappointed and lose faith in the new leadership if they nerf dk to pre u49 levels. Any major balancing has to wait until every class is reworked. If they start trying to rebalance now, we will get into a situation where either each reworked class is only strong for one patch before becoming useless or it affects how they approach future reworks resulting in a flop because they played it too safe. The ideal situation would be for DK to keep it's current power, and then for warden to match it's power followed by the rest of the classes.
I've played enough PVP to know all of what you are speaking about, and I can assure you that none of those apply. We'll run into the same group of 6 players, no apparent changes to group composition, no PVP healer, fighting between keeps - often near the mile gates - where the PVP skill line passives for healing don't come into play. The kids we were rocking before just become invincable. Unable to be pulled or stunned despite waiting for what should be their cooldown on immovables. You time your ulti-dumps for when they're going offensive on their front bar, and still take no damage, despite not blocking and not having a shield on them. It's just absolutely ridiculous.
And the glitch wasn't Twice Born Star glitching out so you could have 2 mundus stones active. People were exploiting the glitch to the point that they had ALL the mundus stones. I've seen the screenshots of the guys (I won't name them) bragging that they had all the mundus stones equipped.
But I didn't respond to complain about PVP more. I'm responding just to say that I don't want them to nerf any pureclasses. I just want them to get rid of things that are problematic. The reason people perceive DK as being overpowered is because they had to make it stupid-strong to compete with subclassing. And its going to always be that way until they address the elephant in the room - subclassing. It was either poorly implemented, or ESO is just not a game that was well set up to incorporate subclassing, and it is clear that the way it was done was problematic on so many levels - so much so that to make pure classes competitive with it, the pure classes are going to have to be broken strong too. I wish they would just address subclassing first and get it to a healthy state, and THEN rework the classes so we don't feel like we're on a slippery slope where every patch seems to have to "one up" the previous one.0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
His comment was “these VD builds can one shot” implying that it was the VD set that was yielding the kill, which is why I thought he was talking about the set proc.
As for DK power scale, that’s debatable. DK is stronger after the re-work, for sure. In PvP crit is king and if a player is properly built then nobody is going to one shot them, not even a DK. A player that’s not properly built, sure, a DK can one shot them but so can a number of subclassed builds running crit + Merciless.
My character, for example, I’m not a crit focus but I’m properly built, no build has ever one shot me, including DKs. I can take crit Merciless even with major & minor breach .. so anyone who’s getting one tapped in PvP, no, they’re not properly built.
You misunderstood what I meant, even though I went on to list out the sources of damage contributing to the "one shot" I was referring to.On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashesAs someone who's gone #3 & #1 in the previous two dueling tournaments I've participated in it really pains me to see people think that you can just have any random gear on and do well against properly built opponents.
Truth is you have to min-max everything just to not lose or stalemate for 6+ minutes, which still happens, after which you remove defensive CPs, red CPs etc just to have the duel end. Someone dying in one GCD isn't properly built, period.
I get that people want to think their builds are "the best" and what not, but it doesn't make a bomber (a VD build) into something that it isn't.
The funniest thing is that a properly built open world build should be even tankier than a normal dueling setup since you're building to survive multiple opponents...
Deci, I feel like you are purposefully misrepresenting what I said.
Obviously if you pull up to stormhaven/alikr wearing vicious death to fight people on dueling builds, you are going to lose. Not disputing that. I'm not sitting at the dueling area in vicious death to try to prove a point.
I'm saying that in open world using this build, I have personally done over 35k+ burst to people who are in tanky, open world builds. Refer to the quote above again for all of the things you can fit into one GCD (forgot to mention the 1k+ shatterspike ticks and the 500-1k quick cloak ticks as well). Sure you can argue it isn't likely due to crit chance and whatnot and that is true, but that doesn't change the fact that it is possible, which is the point I am trying to make here.
This version of DK is so strong that you can make a setup with high enough resists to tank 1vX (4k+ crit resist, 40k+ resists), enough sustain to NEVER run out (stacking 29k mag and 22k stam with 33k HP = easy, infinite sustain via heart of flame), TONS of self healing, and enough damage that you can kill most targets in open world while using a set like vicious death that doesn't offer any single target DPS increase.
It isn't a bomber. It is the pinnacle of a "1vX" build because unlike my other setups using oakfather, medusa, twice fanged, hrothgar, kyn, trickery, or similar - this one can actually potentially wipe the 10-20 man everyday-cyroidiil zerg that tries to chase you down solo. No other 1vX build in the history of the game has been capable of doing that without being some glass cannon, one and done bomber that just falls over if it fails to nuke everybody on the first attempt.
Alright, good - now this is a bit more realistic. `
Yes, you can wipe big groups with this but it does require there to be a weak link that dies to the first global and usually there is in random keep fights etc... but if you look at your KDRs in the clips on those videos, I wouldn't say it's that much higher than when I've seen you on subclass nightblade for example? That's because there's always a downside to running sets like Vicious Death.
You're much more likely to kill properly built PvPers when running a set that makes atleast one of them more likely to die, so for example if you had a group of tryhards (not a ball group, but let's say average players who know what gear to run and when to block/dodge, people Xv1'ing in dueling builds etc) in 30k+ health, Rallying Cry & a few crossheals running it'd be much more likely to win that fight with another set.
Is there going to be a high roll of crits and everything lining up with perhaps Rallying Cry not proccing on one of the tryhards at some point? Maybe, but to get to that point you probably won't have a very positive KDR if playing with VD...
This is the point I've been trying to make.
I would still call a VD build a bomber, this just happens to be a good one that has survivability - I've played plenty of "bomber" setups (RoA with Conti & warden charm comes to mind, you could also call acuity DK from previous patches one - both had BoL to get away and survive with after "bomb") that could also win a lot of 1v1s while not being fully optimized for it... but I'd still call them bombers because that's what they are functionally.Edited by Decimus on March 19, 2026 2:34PM1 -
Lord_Hev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DK can now kill things without needing a proc set and this is being interpreted as a bad thing. I do think the overall balance is whack though. On one hand, sets being irrelevant and the class just having enough power to get kills is feeling more and more like the old days. On the other hand, proc sets still exist and the power creep inflation is getting whacky. Also like has been pointed out, even in those 1v1 VD examples, there's two other problematic sets at play that need to be revisited by zos. Rallying cry and Monomyth. Both putting in alot of overtime work there.
That said, I believe you should absolutely be able to win 1v1s with essentially a wasted 5pc set. The game was much better an eon ago when sets were meant to help you, not -determine- you.7 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
Are you talking about PvE???
In PvP If you’re dropping SC you’re picking up a skill line that offers major resolve, like Earthen Heart (the only DK line you didn’t mention). SC, EH, and RL are the go to utility skill lines, EH is new on this list.
No I’m talking about PvP.
And I don’t disagree that EH is now also on the list .. but .. also remember that crit is the current meta so most of what I’m seeing from the DK subclassing choices are damage skills as opposed to defensive buffs.
One could get away without having Major Resolve if they’re running a strong HoT that’s hitting crits near every tick. Resolve is good but it’s not the only way to mitigate damage in PvP nowdays. I don’t see a lot of players in top tier PvP putting as much resource into pen as they do into crit so I can see why Resolve is a good choice but in the grand scheme if one can slot Flame Lash instead I can see why they might pivot over to that, or at least slot it to try.
EH also gives crit dmg and has Corrosive. Sorry dude I guess we’re seeing different things.
EH gives crit, yes, but only when casting an EH ability.
Most hardcore crit meta builds run Contigency or Soul burst as their self heal burst plus self HoT; which grants minor resolve. Some lean on Vigor as it scales pretty high and grants major resolve.
Prior to the DK refresh players were already able to achieve above max crit modifier scaling with easily 80%+ frequency. .. EH would be worthwhile to consider but mostly if one wasn’t already using a scribed skill which brings a lot to the table in PvP.
EH is a good skill line but many of these hard hitting builds want heavy bursts. I’ve seen some CA used but not many, rather, Take Flight is much more popular from what I’m seeing. And that makes sense because anyone with a strong HoT is going to offset a good amount of Corrosive Armors damage; CA may bypass resistance but it doesn’t ignore healing .. whereas one Take Flight + one Merciless is going to chunk nearly anyone’s health bar, regardless of HoT ticks, especially from a max crit build.
So yeah, I suppose we’re seeing different things.
Not trying to be rude, but there’s some misinformation in your post.
Also, I don’t know what side of the fence you’re on, I’m not on the nerf DK train, make every class into a beast the game will be more fun that way. You’re sleeping on EH though, it’s passives are nasty for a utility skill line.
None of that is misinformation, that’s all accurate.
I’m not on the nerf DK team either. I’ve spent a lot of time testing PvP and the one thing I’ve been calling for a long time is a hard cap on crit in PvP. Search my username on the forms and see what comes up. I’ve been saying this for so long, hard cap crit scaling and you solve a lot of the pain points in PvP.
Subclassing turned “critical” into “regular” while at the same time allowing builds to combine mechanics in ways that were never designed which has led to the mess we have in PvP.
The DK refresh, IMO, was needed and overall I don’t see a problem with it. DK hits harder as it should but I’m looking beyond the surface here. What I’m seeing out of DKs I’ve been seeing out of hardcore crit builds for some time now. 20k+ crit bursts aren’t new and aren’t exclusive to DK. .. I do maintain that some skill lines of DK are more popular among subclassing builds in PvP now but I also maintain that Animal Companions & Assassination are still the top two even after the DK refresh.
That’s not hate on DK that was part of the point. The Devs are looking to make it harder for subclasses builds to net so much utility by using any one skill line. I expect we’ll see the same when it comes to Warden; I expect they’re going to break up Netch, Fissure, & Swiftness into separate lines for that reason.
The Class Mastery passives aren’t out yet, I don’t think they’re due to drop for another 3 months, that’s the other piece that’s supposed to help make pure class builds competitive with subclasses ones. Between the Warden shakeup and the new passives coming, that’s when I think we’ll see a lot of the heaviest hitting subclasses builds making broad changes. I still say crit scaling should have a hard cap but at least the shakeup might bring some counter play back.0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
Are you talking about PvE???
In PvP If you’re dropping SC you’re picking up a skill line that offers major resolve, like Earthen Heart (the only DK line you didn’t mention). SC, EH, and RL are the go to utility skill lines, EH is new on this list.
No I’m talking about PvP.
And I don’t disagree that EH is now also on the list .. but .. also remember that crit is the current meta so most of what I’m seeing from the DK subclassing choices are damage skills as opposed to defensive buffs.
One could get away without having Major Resolve if they’re running a strong HoT that’s hitting crits near every tick. Resolve is good but it’s not the only way to mitigate damage in PvP nowdays. I don’t see a lot of players in top tier PvP putting as much resource into pen as they do into crit so I can see why Resolve is a good choice but in the grand scheme if one can slot Flame Lash instead I can see why they might pivot over to that, or at least slot it to try.
EH also gives crit dmg and has Corrosive. Sorry dude I guess we’re seeing different things.
EH gives crit, yes, but only when casting an EH ability.
Most hardcore crit meta builds run Contigency or Soul burst as their self heal burst plus self HoT; which grants minor resolve. Some lean on Vigor as it scales pretty high and grants major resolve.
Prior to the DK refresh players were already able to achieve above max crit modifier scaling with easily 80%+ frequency. .. EH would be worthwhile to consider but mostly if one wasn’t already using a scribed skill which brings a lot to the table in PvP.
EH is a good skill line but many of these hard hitting builds want heavy bursts. I’ve seen some CA used but not many, rather, Take Flight is much more popular from what I’m seeing. And that makes sense because anyone with a strong HoT is going to offset a good amount of Corrosive Armors damage; CA may bypass resistance but it doesn’t ignore healing .. whereas one Take Flight + one Merciless is going to chunk nearly anyone’s health bar, regardless of HoT ticks, especially from a max crit build.
So yeah, I suppose we’re seeing different things.
Not trying to be rude, but there’s some misinformation in your post.
Also, I don’t know what side of the fence you’re on, I’m not on the nerf DK train, make every class into a beast the game will be more fun that way. You’re sleeping on EH though, it’s passives are nasty for a utility skill line.
None of that is misinformation, that’s all accurate.
I’m not on the nerf DK team either. I’ve spent a lot of time testing PvP and the one thing I’ve been calling for a long time is a hard cap on crit in PvP. Search my username on the forms and see what comes up. I’ve been saying this for so long, hard cap crit scaling and you solve a lot of the pain points in PvP.
Subclassing turned “critical” into “regular” while at the same time allowing builds to combine mechanics in ways that were never designed which has led to the mess we have in PvP.
The DK refresh, IMO, was needed and overall I don’t see a problem with it. DK hits harder as it should but I’m looking beyond the surface here. What I’m seeing out of DKs I’ve been seeing out of hardcore crit builds for some time now. 20k+ crit bursts aren’t new and aren’t exclusive to DK. .. I do maintain that some skill lines of DK are more popular among subclassing builds in PvP now but I also maintain that Animal Companions & Assassination are still the top two even after the DK refresh.
That’s not hate on DK that was part of the point. The Devs are looking to make it harder for subclasses builds to net so much utility by using any one skill line. I expect we’ll see the same when it comes to Warden; I expect they’re going to break up Netch, Fissure, & Swiftness into separate lines for that reason.
The Class Mastery passives aren’t out yet, I don’t think they’re due to drop for another 3 months, that’s the other piece that’s supposed to help make pure class builds competitive with subclasses ones. Between the Warden shakeup and the new passives coming, that’s when I think we’ll see a lot of the heaviest hitting subclasses builds making broad changes. I still say crit scaling should have a hard cap but at least the shakeup might bring some counter play back.
Vigor doesn’t give Major Resolve and EH crit bonus is always active.
Feels like you are talking about things prior to U49 as well, where Draconic had Spikes and Leap so people were building Assassination/Draconic Brawler builds. That’s not what is happening rn.."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations2 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Nothing should ever do this, maybe meme glass cannons that immediately die after they blow their combo. Stats are busted beyond just 5pc sets. We've already brought up issues like Monomyth and how innate crit resist hasn't kept up with crit dmg powercreep.enough damage to 100-0 people
WoW periodically uses a "stat squish" method to deal with this sort of powercreep.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP1 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
Are you talking about PvE???
In PvP If you’re dropping SC you’re picking up a skill line that offers major resolve, like Earthen Heart (the only DK line you didn’t mention). SC, EH, and RL are the go to utility skill lines, EH is new on this list.
No I’m talking about PvP.
And I don’t disagree that EH is now also on the list .. but .. also remember that crit is the current meta so most of what I’m seeing from the DK subclassing choices are damage skills as opposed to defensive buffs.
One could get away without having Major Resolve if they’re running a strong HoT that’s hitting crits near every tick. Resolve is good but it’s not the only way to mitigate damage in PvP nowdays. I don’t see a lot of players in top tier PvP putting as much resource into pen as they do into crit so I can see why Resolve is a good choice but in the grand scheme if one can slot Flame Lash instead I can see why they might pivot over to that, or at least slot it to try.
EH also gives crit dmg and has Corrosive. Sorry dude I guess we’re seeing different things.
EH gives crit, yes, but only when casting an EH ability.
Most hardcore crit meta builds run Contigency or Soul burst as their self heal burst plus self HoT; which grants minor resolve. Some lean on Vigor as it scales pretty high and grants major resolve.
Prior to the DK refresh players were already able to achieve above max crit modifier scaling with easily 80%+ frequency. .. EH would be worthwhile to consider but mostly if one wasn’t already using a scribed skill which brings a lot to the table in PvP.
EH is a good skill line but many of these hard hitting builds want heavy bursts. I’ve seen some CA used but not many, rather, Take Flight is much more popular from what I’m seeing. And that makes sense because anyone with a strong HoT is going to offset a good amount of Corrosive Armors damage; CA may bypass resistance but it doesn’t ignore healing .. whereas one Take Flight + one Merciless is going to chunk nearly anyone’s health bar, regardless of HoT ticks, especially from a max crit build.
So yeah, I suppose we’re seeing different things.
Not trying to be rude, but there’s some misinformation in your post.
Also, I don’t know what side of the fence you’re on, I’m not on the nerf DK train, make every class into a beast the game will be more fun that way. You’re sleeping on EH though, it’s passives are nasty for a utility skill line.
None of that is misinformation, that’s all accurate.
I’m not on the nerf DK team either. I’ve spent a lot of time testing PvP and the one thing I’ve been calling for a long time is a hard cap on crit in PvP. Search my username on the forms and see what comes up. I’ve been saying this for so long, hard cap crit scaling and you solve a lot of the pain points in PvP.
Subclassing turned “critical” into “regular” while at the same time allowing builds to combine mechanics in ways that were never designed which has led to the mess we have in PvP.
The DK refresh, IMO, was needed and overall I don’t see a problem with it. DK hits harder as it should but I’m looking beyond the surface here. What I’m seeing out of DKs I’ve been seeing out of hardcore crit builds for some time now. 20k+ crit bursts aren’t new and aren’t exclusive to DK. .. I do maintain that some skill lines of DK are more popular among subclassing builds in PvP now but I also maintain that Animal Companions & Assassination are still the top two even after the DK refresh.
That’s not hate on DK that was part of the point. The Devs are looking to make it harder for subclasses builds to net so much utility by using any one skill line. I expect we’ll see the same when it comes to Warden; I expect they’re going to break up Netch, Fissure, & Swiftness into separate lines for that reason.
The Class Mastery passives aren’t out yet, I don’t think they’re due to drop for another 3 months, that’s the other piece that’s supposed to help make pure class builds competitive with subclasses ones. Between the Warden shakeup and the new passives coming, that’s when I think we’ll see a lot of the heaviest hitting subclasses builds making broad changes. I still say crit scaling should have a hard cap but at least the shakeup might bring some counter play back.
Vigor doesn’t give Major Resolve and EH crit bonus is always active.
Feels like you are talking about things prior to U49 as well, where Draconic had Spikes and Leap so people were building Assassination/Draconic Brawler builds. That’s not what is happening rn..
I’m sorry, Minor Resolve. Res Vigor isn’t the top choice in PvP but it is used for builds that are looking to slot a decently scaling HoT that runs off the stam pool (and cheaply at that). Vigor is one of the few options for a self heal that also provides any Resolve buff. Resolve is active for 20 seconds while the HoT only requires 5, meaning each tick is a high scale; so a crit player can gain access to a 4k to 5k per tick self HoT with BS active for a low resource cost. Yes I got the Major & Minor backwards but I wasn’t incorrect in that Vigor does provide a Resolve buff.
The reason I even mentioned Resolve in the first place is because it’s not the end all buff for damage mitigation in PvP. Mathematically Major Resolve provides roughly a 9% mitigation to incoming damage. For example, a player slotting Toppling Charge is granted Major Protection which reduces incoming damage by 10%. Even factoring in diminishing returns that’s an equitable buff to Resolve and is not affected by any Breach debuff. Your advanced players know this and if they are slotting TC (or other source of Protection, there’s plenty) then for them Major Resolve may not be as big of a priority.
As for the EH Blessing at the Peak passive, according to the U49 PTS Dev notes on these forums that passive is set to apply whenever a player casts OR deals damage with an EH ability. The Dev note didn’t state that only part of the passive was a proc while the other was permanent so my takeaway from what the Devs published is that the entirety of the passive is active upon the proc, which was expanded.
Now I haven’t personally tested the BATP passive so we’d need to see a character screen shot showing the passive perma active or on a timer.Edited by NxJoeyD on March 19, 2026 9:05PM0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭
I assume you know what Resolving Vigor is? … it’s a self heal that has a sub 3k stam cost and can, easily, scale into the mid to high 20k range and provides minor protection for 20 seconds.
Most healing skills were cost adjusted in previous updates but Resolving Vigor is one of the few exceptions, and runs off Stam rather than Mag.
On a meta crit build this skill will yield self HoT ticks in the 4k to 5k range in PvP which mitigates a lot of incoming damage.
Most meta builds run Contingency or Soul Burst, some will run Wardens Seed as that’s also a cost exception in healing but a handfull will run Vigor as their HoT as it will give one of the best per tick rates out there and that leaves them free to scribe Warriors on Contingency to cut incoming damage by an additional 8%.1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭
I assume you know what Resolving Vigor is? … it’s a self heal that has a sub 3k stam cost and can, easily, scale into the mid to high 20k range and provides minor protection for 20 seconds.
Most healing skills were cost adjusted in previous updates but Resolving Vigor is one of the few exceptions, and runs off Stam rather than Mag.
On a meta crit build this skill will yield self HoT ticks in the 4k to 5k range in PvP which mitigates a lot of incoming damage.
Most meta builds run Contingency or Soul Burst, some will run Wardens Seed as that’s also a cost exception in healing but a handfull will run Vigor as their HoT as it will give one of the best per tick rates out there and that leaves them free to scribe Warriors on Contingency to cut incoming damage by an additional 8%.
The "HUH?" is for your comment saying that "Resolving Vigor isn't the top choice in PvP".Edited by hoangdz on March 19, 2026 9:35PM2 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
Are you talking about PvE???
In PvP If you’re dropping SC you’re picking up a skill line that offers major resolve, like Earthen Heart (the only DK line you didn’t mention). SC, EH, and RL are the go to utility skill lines, EH is new on this list.
No I’m talking about PvP.
And I don’t disagree that EH is now also on the list .. but .. also remember that crit is the current meta so most of what I’m seeing from the DK subclassing choices are damage skills as opposed to defensive buffs.
One could get away without having Major Resolve if they’re running a strong HoT that’s hitting crits near every tick. Resolve is good but it’s not the only way to mitigate damage in PvP nowdays. I don’t see a lot of players in top tier PvP putting as much resource into pen as they do into crit so I can see why Resolve is a good choice but in the grand scheme if one can slot Flame Lash instead I can see why they might pivot over to that, or at least slot it to try.
EH also gives crit dmg and has Corrosive. Sorry dude I guess we’re seeing different things.
EH gives crit, yes, but only when casting an EH ability.
Most hardcore crit meta builds run Contigency or Soul burst as their self heal burst plus self HoT; which grants minor resolve. Some lean on Vigor as it scales pretty high and grants major resolve.
Prior to the DK refresh players were already able to achieve above max crit modifier scaling with easily 80%+ frequency. .. EH would be worthwhile to consider but mostly if one wasn’t already using a scribed skill which brings a lot to the table in PvP.
EH is a good skill line but many of these hard hitting builds want heavy bursts. I’ve seen some CA used but not many, rather, Take Flight is much more popular from what I’m seeing. And that makes sense because anyone with a strong HoT is going to offset a good amount of Corrosive Armors damage; CA may bypass resistance but it doesn’t ignore healing .. whereas one Take Flight + one Merciless is going to chunk nearly anyone’s health bar, regardless of HoT ticks, especially from a max crit build.
So yeah, I suppose we’re seeing different things.
Not trying to be rude, but there’s some misinformation in your post.
Also, I don’t know what side of the fence you’re on, I’m not on the nerf DK train, make every class into a beast the game will be more fun that way. You’re sleeping on EH though, it’s passives are nasty for a utility skill line.
None of that is misinformation, that’s all accurate.
I’m not on the nerf DK team either. I’ve spent a lot of time testing PvP and the one thing I’ve been calling for a long time is a hard cap on crit in PvP. Search my username on the forms and see what comes up. I’ve been saying this for so long, hard cap crit scaling and you solve a lot of the pain points in PvP.
Subclassing turned “critical” into “regular” while at the same time allowing builds to combine mechanics in ways that were never designed which has led to the mess we have in PvP.
The DK refresh, IMO, was needed and overall I don’t see a problem with it. DK hits harder as it should but I’m looking beyond the surface here. What I’m seeing out of DKs I’ve been seeing out of hardcore crit builds for some time now. 20k+ crit bursts aren’t new and aren’t exclusive to DK. .. I do maintain that some skill lines of DK are more popular among subclassing builds in PvP now but I also maintain that Animal Companions & Assassination are still the top two even after the DK refresh.
That’s not hate on DK that was part of the point. The Devs are looking to make it harder for subclasses builds to net so much utility by using any one skill line. I expect we’ll see the same when it comes to Warden; I expect they’re going to break up Netch, Fissure, & Swiftness into separate lines for that reason.
The Class Mastery passives aren’t out yet, I don’t think they’re due to drop for another 3 months, that’s the other piece that’s supposed to help make pure class builds competitive with subclasses ones. Between the Warden shakeup and the new passives coming, that’s when I think we’ll see a lot of the heaviest hitting subclasses builds making broad changes. I still say crit scaling should have a hard cap but at least the shakeup might bring some counter play back.
Vigor doesn’t give Major Resolve and EH crit bonus is always active.
Feels like you are talking about things prior to U49 as well, where Draconic had Spikes and Leap so people were building Assassination/Draconic Brawler builds. That’s not what is happening rn..
I’m sorry, Minor Resolve. Res Vigor isn’t the top choice in PvP but it is used for builds that are looking to slot a decently scaling HoT that runs off the stam pool (and cheaply at that). Vigor is one of the few options for a self heal that also provides any Resolve buff. Resolve is active for 20 seconds while the HoT only requires 5, meaning each tick is a high scale; so a crit player can gain access to a 4k to 5k per tick self HoT with BS active for a low resource cost. Yes I got the Major & Minor backwards but I wasn’t incorrect in that Vigor does provide a Resolve buff.
The reason I even mentioned Resolve in the first place is because it’s not the end all buff for damage mitigation in PvP. Mathematically Major Resolve provides roughly a 9% mitigation to incoming damage. For example, a player slotting Toppling Charge is granted Major Protection which reduces incoming damage by 10%. Even factoring in diminishing returns that’s an equitable buff to Resolve and is not affected by any Breach debuff. Your advanced players know this and if they are slotting TC (or other source of Protection, there’s plenty) then for them Major Resolve may not be as big of a priority.
As for the EH Blessing at the Peak passive, according to the U49 PTS Dev notes on these forums that passive is set to apply whenever a player casts OR deals damage with an EH ability. The Dev note didn’t state that only part of the passive was a proc while the other was permanent so my takeaway from what the Devs published is that the entirety of the passive is active upon the proc, which was expanded.
Now I haven’t personally tested the BATP passive so we’d need to see a character screen shot showing the passive perma active or on a timer.
This has to be some rage bait lmao3 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I assume you know what Resolving Vigor is? … it’s a self heal that has a sub 3k stam cost and can, easily, scale into the mid to high 20k range and provides minor protection for 20 seconds.
Most healing skills were cost adjusted in previous updates but Resolving Vigor is one of the few exceptions, and runs off Stam rather than Mag.
On a meta crit build this skill will yield self HoT ticks in the 4k to 5k range in PvP which mitigates a lot of incoming damage.
Most meta builds run Contingency or Soul Burst, some will run Wardens Seed as that’s also a cost exception in healing but a handfull will run Vigor as their HoT as it will give one of the best per tick rates out there and that leaves them free to scribe Warriors on Contingency to cut incoming damage by an additional 8%.
Me when I step foot into pvp for the 2nd time and think I now know everything.2 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭
I assume you know what Resolving Vigor is? … it’s a self heal that has a sub 3k stam cost and can, easily, scale into the mid to high 20k range and provides minor protection for 20 seconds.
Most healing skills were cost adjusted in previous updates but Resolving Vigor is one of the few exceptions, and runs off Stam rather than Mag.
On a meta crit build this skill will yield self HoT ticks in the 4k to 5k range in PvP which mitigates a lot of incoming damage.
Most meta builds run Contingency or Soul Burst, some will run Wardens Seed as that’s also a cost exception in healing but a handfull will run Vigor as their HoT as it will give one of the best per tick rates out there and that leaves them free to scribe Warriors on Contingency to cut incoming damage by an additional 8%.
The "HUH?" is for your comment saying that "Resolving Vigor isn't the top choice in PvP".
It’s not. It’s a choice, and a solid one but it’s not the top because it’s only a HoT and not a burst.
Any proper PvP build is slotting a strong burst as their primary heal, which, is why I cited Contingency & Soul Burst as the top two as they’re scribed and bring more passive benefits than any base skill heal. Beyond the scribes we see Honor as another go-to burst in the meta.
Vigor is absolutely used in PvP but any HoT are a secondary method of damage mitigation, not your main. Your hard hitting burst is what drives your top choice.
NB / Warden / Templar are still the top combo in PvP bringing crit, healing, damage, and more importantly, sustain & cleansing.
Thats not the only popular build in PvP but if we’re talking to go-to choices for top output that’s what I’m still seeing out there; even with the uptick in DK skill lines being tried.Edited by NxJoeyD on March 19, 2026 10:18PM1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭
I assume you know what Resolving Vigor is? … it’s a self heal that has a sub 3k stam cost and can, easily, scale into the mid to high 20k range and provides minor protection for 20 seconds.
Most healing skills were cost adjusted in previous updates but Resolving Vigor is one of the few exceptions, and runs off Stam rather than Mag.
On a meta crit build this skill will yield self HoT ticks in the 4k to 5k range in PvP which mitigates a lot of incoming damage.
Most meta builds run Contingency or Soul Burst, some will run Wardens Seed as that’s also a cost exception in healing but a handfull will run Vigor as their HoT as it will give one of the best per tick rates out there and that leaves them free to scribe Warriors on Contingency to cut incoming damage by an additional 8%.
The "HUH?" is for your comment saying that "Resolving Vigor isn't the top choice in PvP".
It’s not. It’s a choice, and a solid one but it’s not the top because it’s only a HoT and not a burst.
Any proper PvP build is slotting a strong burst as their primary heal, which, is why I cited Contingency & Soul Burst as the top two as they’re scribed and bring more passive benefits than any base skill heal. Beyond the scribes we see Honor as another go-to burst in the meta.
Vigor is absolutely used in PvP but any HoT are a secondary method of damage mitigation, not your main. Your hard hitting burst is what drives your top choice.
NB / Warden / Templar are still the top combo in PvP bringing crit, healing, damage, and more importantly, sustain & cleansing.
Thats not the only popular build in PvP but if we’re talking to go-to choices for top output that’s what I’m still seeing out there; even with the uptick in DK skill lines being tried.
You do realize that Vigor is always top #1 heal value on any build in a real fight right? I'm just curious, do you have CMX at all?1 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Unironically, I'm almost sure most people hit their vigor more than they do their big Burst heal.
It's almost like before not all classes had a burst heal and had to survive with hots.0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭
I assume you know what Resolving Vigor is? … it’s a self heal that has a sub 3k stam cost and can, easily, scale into the mid to high 20k range and provides minor protection for 20 seconds.
Most healing skills were cost adjusted in previous updates but Resolving Vigor is one of the few exceptions, and runs off Stam rather than Mag.
On a meta crit build this skill will yield self HoT ticks in the 4k to 5k range in PvP which mitigates a lot of incoming damage.
Most meta builds run Contingency or Soul Burst, some will run Wardens Seed as that’s also a cost exception in healing but a handfull will run Vigor as their HoT as it will give one of the best per tick rates out there and that leaves them free to scribe Warriors on Contingency to cut incoming damage by an additional 8%.
The "HUH?" is for your comment saying that "Resolving Vigor isn't the top choice in PvP".
It’s not. It’s a choice, and a solid one but it’s not the top because it’s only a HoT and not a burst.
Any proper PvP build is slotting a strong burst as their primary heal, which, is why I cited Contingency & Soul Burst as the top two as they’re scribed and bring more passive benefits than any base skill heal. Beyond the scribes we see Honor as another go-to burst in the meta.
Vigor is absolutely used in PvP but any HoT are a secondary method of damage mitigation, not your main. Your hard hitting burst is what drives your top choice.
NB / Warden / Templar are still the top combo in PvP bringing crit, healing, damage, and more importantly, sustain & cleansing.
Thats not the only popular build in PvP but if we’re talking to go-to choices for top output that’s what I’m still seeing out there; even with the uptick in DK skill lines being tried.
You do realize that Vigor is always top #1 heal value on any build in a real fight right? I'm just curious, do you have CMX at all?
I'm XB NA, CMX isn't available. I do have a PC NA but that's not my primary I only use that for solo PTS.
I thought CMX though showed you your combat output and input metrics? CMX won't show your opponents gear and / or skills used, or at least I never knew it to do that. It might show you an opponents total numbers but not how they got those numbers. Did that change?
Vigor it a bit of a mix case. In the combat I see Vigor having an consistent uptime but I also see burst healing consistently.
Whether Vigor yields more total healing versus a players burst will depend on whether or not they're running with a squad vs randoms, whether their squad or team has a dedicated healer, and whether or not MMR has them pit against equitable players. I don't regular PC NA but on XB NA the consistency among the hardest hitting meta builds are the bursts followed by the HoT, such as Vigor.
A lot of PvP on XB NA (especially IC & BGs) lack consistent dedicated healers so your top end builds definitely do run their HoT but lean a lot on their bursts in their rotations because you often find yourself up against hard hitting builds and don't have the dedicated healing component so HoT simply isn't enough, the bursts are hitting constantly and are what's keeping you alive. The HoTs are mitigating stacks and DoTs coming in. On XB NA, I see much more Burst > HoT, especially in BG match recaps.Edited by NxJoeyD on March 19, 2026 10:57PM0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭To be an insufferable nerd, VD does have some Single Target damage in its 5 piece with the line of Pen, it's 1/3 of Spriggan's.
Added probably during that large pass in 2021? When all the sets with permanent Minor buffs got an extra line on the 5 piece.
Another small part of the OP state of VD after the proc set changes a few years back.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »Unironically, I'm almost sure most people hit their vigor more than they do their big Burst heal.
It's almost like before not all classes had a burst heal and had to survive with hots.
True, but before subclassing skills didn't hit as hard as they do now. One could get away with a strong HoT.
Now, at least on XB, with so many people running heavy crit meta and relatively narrow focus builds no HoT is strong enough to offset the persistent bursts players are dealing out in PvP.
Unless you're in a PvP scenario where you have a dedicated healer on a regular basis (XB typically does not) then you need to lean on a burst heal in your rotation.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭
I assume you know what Resolving Vigor is? … it’s a self heal that has a sub 3k stam cost and can, easily, scale into the mid to high 20k range and provides minor protection for 20 seconds.
Most healing skills were cost adjusted in previous updates but Resolving Vigor is one of the few exceptions, and runs off Stam rather than Mag.
On a meta crit build this skill will yield self HoT ticks in the 4k to 5k range in PvP which mitigates a lot of incoming damage.
Most meta builds run Contingency or Soul Burst, some will run Wardens Seed as that’s also a cost exception in healing but a handfull will run Vigor as their HoT as it will give one of the best per tick rates out there and that leaves them free to scribe Warriors on Contingency to cut incoming damage by an additional 8%.
The "HUH?" is for your comment saying that "Resolving Vigor isn't the top choice in PvP".
It’s not. It’s a choice, and a solid one but it’s not the top because it’s only a HoT and not a burst.
Any proper PvP build is slotting a strong burst as their primary heal, which, is why I cited Contingency & Soul Burst as the top two as they’re scribed and bring more passive benefits than any base skill heal. Beyond the scribes we see Honor as another go-to burst in the meta.
Vigor is absolutely used in PvP but any HoT are a secondary method of damage mitigation, not your main. Your hard hitting burst is what drives your top choice.
NB / Warden / Templar are still the top combo in PvP bringing crit, healing, damage, and more importantly, sustain & cleansing.
Thats not the only popular build in PvP but if we’re talking to go-to choices for top output that’s what I’m still seeing out there; even with the uptick in DK skill lines being tried.
You do realize that Vigor is always top #1 heal value on any build in a real fight right? I'm just curious, do you have CMX at all?
I'm XB NA, CMX isn't available. I do have a PC NA but that's not my primary I only use that for solo PTS.
I thought CMX though showed you your combat output and input metrics? CMX won't show your opponents gear and / or skills used, or at least I never knew it to do that. It might show you an opponents total numbers but not how they got those numbers. Did that change?
Vigor it a bit of a mix case. In the combat I see Vigor having an consistent uptime but I also see burst healing consistently.
Whether Vigor yields more total healing versus a players burst will depend on whether or not they're running with a squad vs randoms, whether their squad or team has a dedicated healer, and whether or not MMR has them pit against equitable players. I don't regular PC NA but on XB NA the consistency among the hardest hitting meta builds are the bursts followed by the HoT, such as Vigor.
A lot of PvP on XB NA (especially IC & BGs) lack consistent dedicated healers so your top end builds definitely do run their HoT but lean a lot on their bursts in their rotations because you often find yourself up against hard hitting builds and don't have the dedicated healing component so HoT simply isn't enough, the bursts are hitting constantly and are what's keeping you alive. The HoTs are mitigating stacks and DoTs coming in. On XB NA, I see much more Burst > HoT, especially in BG match recaps.
CMX won’t directly reveal an opponent’s gear, but if they are using a proc set CMX can record it through the damage taken section. Things like Pyrebrand, Null Arca, or even Mech Acuity will show up there.
Anyways, Vigor is always top #1 healing-per-second value on any build. The only other heal I’ve seen outperform Vigor is Crit Surge, and that still requires very high uptime. Your main heal should always be Vigor, then burst heal when you’re low health. Even Vigor can be used as a burst heal if you cast it right before it ticks (double tick effect).1 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭
I assume you know what Resolving Vigor is? … it’s a self heal that has a sub 3k stam cost and can, easily, scale into the mid to high 20k range and provides minor protection for 20 seconds.
Most healing skills were cost adjusted in previous updates but Resolving Vigor is one of the few exceptions, and runs off Stam rather than Mag.
On a meta crit build this skill will yield self HoT ticks in the 4k to 5k range in PvP which mitigates a lot of incoming damage.
Most meta builds run Contingency or Soul Burst, some will run Wardens Seed as that’s also a cost exception in healing but a handfull will run Vigor as their HoT as it will give one of the best per tick rates out there and that leaves them free to scribe Warriors on Contingency to cut incoming damage by an additional 8%.
The "HUH?" is for your comment saying that "Resolving Vigor isn't the top choice in PvP".
It’s not. It’s a choice, and a solid one but it’s not the top because it’s only a HoT and not a burst.
Any proper PvP build is slotting a strong burst as their primary heal, which, is why I cited Contingency & Soul Burst as the top two as they’re scribed and bring more passive benefits than any base skill heal. Beyond the scribes we see Honor as another go-to burst in the meta.
Vigor is absolutely used in PvP but any HoT are a secondary method of damage mitigation, not your main. Your hard hitting burst is what drives your top choice.
NB / Warden / Templar are still the top combo in PvP bringing crit, healing, damage, and more importantly, sustain & cleansing.
Thats not the only popular build in PvP but if we’re talking to go-to choices for top output that’s what I’m still seeing out there; even with the uptick in DK skill lines being tried.
You do realize that Vigor is always top #1 heal value on any build in a real fight right? I'm just curious, do you have CMX at all?
I'm XB NA, CMX isn't available. I do have a PC NA but that's not my primary I only use that for solo PTS.
I thought CMX though showed you your combat output and input metrics? CMX won't show your opponents gear and / or skills used, or at least I never knew it to do that. It might show you an opponents total numbers but not how they got those numbers. Did that change?
Vigor it a bit of a mix case. In the combat I see Vigor having an consistent uptime but I also see burst healing consistently.
Whether Vigor yields more total healing versus a players burst will depend on whether or not they're running with a squad vs randoms, whether their squad or team has a dedicated healer, and whether or not MMR has them pit against equitable players. I don't regular PC NA but on XB NA the consistency among the hardest hitting meta builds are the bursts followed by the HoT, such as Vigor.
A lot of PvP on XB NA (especially IC & BGs) lack consistent dedicated healers so your top end builds definitely do run their HoT but lean a lot on their bursts in their rotations because you often find yourself up against hard hitting builds and don't have the dedicated healing component so HoT simply isn't enough, the bursts are hitting constantly and are what's keeping you alive. The HoTs are mitigating stacks and DoTs coming in. On XB NA, I see much more Burst > HoT, especially in BG match recaps.
CMX won’t directly reveal an opponent’s gear, but if they are using a proc set CMX can record it through the damage taken section. Things like Pyrebrand, Null Arca, or even Mech Acuity will show up there.
Anyways, Vigor is always top #1 healing-per-second value on any build. The only other heal I’ve seen outperform Vigor is Crit Surge, and that still requires very high uptime. Your main heal should always be Vigor, then burst heal when you’re low health. Even Vigor can be used as a burst heal if you cast it right before it ticks (double tick effect).
Healing per second, yes, I agree, Vigor is untouchable; and I said that as much posts ago. .. But the highest heal per tick doesn't necessarily mean that's going to yield the highest amount of total healing.
I know players do stack Vigor ticks but even still; when you have 4 to 5 out of 8 players on a team spamming rotations of Merciless, Fissure, Surprise, Whirling, Comet, Colossus, Incap., Thrive, etc no HoT, including Vigor, is enough to offset how high those bursts scale.
Again, if you have a dedicated healing role, sure, Vigor is enough; but when you don't, even the 4k to 5k per tick of Vigor isn't going to save you from 18k to 20k Merciless hits or persistent Fissures.0