Probably the most unfun patch for PvP if you’re not playing DK
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nightbringer1993✭✭✭The class refresh order is bad anyway, it should have been necro next not warden. Warden has animal companion and winter’s embrace that is still good and necro has just grave lord that is viable but even then grave lord was nerfed when the blastbone changed. When you see that deep fissures does more damage than blastbone I rage.PC EU3 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭
PvP has been difficult for Sorcs for some time, let alone base Sorcs. I wouldn’t say PvP is unplayable for us but it’s definitely more difficult that’s for sure.
Subclassing raised the bar on power creep significantly. And when I say power creep I don’t just mean crit (which is a massive problem itself) but I also mean the potential to combine utility in ways previously not possible beforehand.
I’m seeing a lot more DK skills but I’m not necessarily seeing a ton of pure DKs, at least not in my gameplay in BGs & IC. … I’m seeing players experiment with DK lines in their subclass builds or swapping to their base DK class and then subclassing that. .. Animal Companions and Assassination bring so much to the table in PvP and I’m not seeing a large number of players giving that up, at least not yet.
Unfortunately Streak isn’t the escape solution it once was. Subclassing gave everyone more access to gap closers and even if players are swapping out Templar lines for DK, chain has a much longer range than our streak does so it’s not as reliable of a means of defense as it used to be. Just about anyone can keep up with a Streaking Sorc nowdays and can do so without a progressive resource cost like we have.
I’m a Sorc main but I’m subclassed. And while there’s no comprehensive answer to the crit issue right now (regales of class), if you’re pure Sorc it will be a struggle IMO because the overall Sorc class right now is heavy with redundant utility skills, many of those are easily countered and don’t bring the competitive bursts PvP demands. Unless you’re slotting world skills or subclassing it’s going to be an uphill battle until our refresh.1 -
Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭nightbringer1993 wrote: »The class refresh order is bad anyway, it should have been necro next not warden. Warden has animal companion and winter’s embrace that is still good and necro has just grave lord that is viable but even then grave lord was nerfed when the blastbone changed. When you see that deep fissures does more damage than blastbone I rage.
Dragonknight had a chokehold on tanking, just as Warden has one on healing. Those are the only two factors that I can think of when it comes to their prioritization.
I agree 100% that Necromancer can’t come soon enough, my hope is that they are taking the time to make new themes for two of their skill lines, just as they will need to do with Arcanist.
Personally, I would love a Class’ Soul Magic tree for Necromancer, and some blood or frost magic as a third one. Maybe they put Poison on Nightblade and give Necromancer Siphoning… who knows? 👀Edited by Radiate77 on March 18, 2026 9:16PMDragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭I assume from the order they picked prior to dragon knight was to not only spruce up visuals but to switch the skills in the class skill trees so that they're not so easily viable for any subclass build, namely animal companion, and storm calling.
DK was likely picked first because its one of if not the most popular and iconic classes to play. You know the Bjorns and the Ragnars that came from Skyrim lol we gravitated to DK for that reason. I would assume the next most popular is nightblade, if not the most. And even if you disagree with that assumption you gotta admit there's a ton of returning players lately. Flash and flame sells.
A lot of assumptions there but thats how it felt to me or else why would they pick an original class first, then go back to a new one, then back to og again. Unless for whatever reason they want to alternate, and considering that balancing subclassing with pure classes was the goal, it'd make sense to first pick a popular class to have as an alternative and then start the balancing act in the midst of adding more pure alternatives one by one.0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.2 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭
PvP has been difficult for Sorcs for some time, let alone base Sorcs. I wouldn’t say PvP is unplayable for us but it’s definitely more difficult that’s for sure.
Sorcs have been S tier longer than any other class for pvp historically.4 -
nightbringer1993✭✭✭nightbringer1993 wrote: »The class refresh order is bad anyway, it should have been necro next not warden. Warden has animal companion and winter’s embrace that is still good and necro has just grave lord that is viable but even then grave lord was nerfed when the blastbone changed. When you see that deep fissures does more damage than blastbone I rage.
Dragonknight had a chokehold on tanking, just as Warden has one on healing. Those are the only two factors that I can think of when it comes to their prioritization.
I agree 100% that Necromancer can’t come soon enough, my hope is that they are taking the time to make new themes for two of their skill lines, just as they will need to do with Arcanist.
Personally, I would love a Class’ Soul Magic tree for Necromancer, and some blood or frost magic as a third one. Maybe they put Poison on Nightblade and give Necromancer Siphoning… who knows? 👀
Reminder that we have been asking for a necro refresh for over four years, and ZOS insults us by placing necro last (excluding arcanist).PC EU2 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.Edited by Decimus on March 18, 2026 10:35PM0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »
PvP has been difficult for Sorcs for some time, let alone base Sorcs. I wouldn’t say PvP is unplayable for us but it’s definitely more difficult that’s for sure.
Sorcs have been S tier longer than any other class for pvp historically.
Sorcs had been, yes, once upon a time .. but that hasn't been true since well before Subclassing.1 -
Major_Toughness✭✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »
PvP has been difficult for Sorcs for some time, let alone base Sorcs. I wouldn’t say PvP is unplayable for us but it’s definitely more difficult that’s for sure.
Sorcs have been S tier longer than any other class for pvp historically.
Sorcs had been, yes, once upon a time .. but that hasn't been true since well before Subclassing.
Sorc is by far the second strongest pure class, and even in U48 (last patch) you could dominate Cyro & BGs as a pure magsorc. I was doing as well on pure magsorc, as I was on subclassed builds, as not even a good sorc player, so were others.MAKE AZUREBLIGHT GREAT AGAIN
PC EU > You3 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭Major_Toughness wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »
PvP has been difficult for Sorcs for some time, let alone base Sorcs. I wouldn’t say PvP is unplayable for us but it’s definitely more difficult that’s for sure.
Sorcs have been S tier longer than any other class for pvp historically.
Sorcs had been, yes, once upon a time .. but that hasn't been true since well before Subclassing.
Sorc is by far the second strongest pure class, and even in U48 (last patch) you could dominate Cyro & BGs as a pure magsorc. I was doing as well on pure magsorc, as I was on subclassed builds, as not even a good sorc player, so were others.
That’s highly debatable. When it comes to BGs especially it’s partly determined where you fall within MMR as to what caliber of player and mechanics you’re going to end up against.
U46 saw players able to pair skills and mechanics in ways that reduced or eliminated counterplay, unless, you were also subclassed to deal with them. (See Crit, see gap closers, see buff / debuff).
In BGs we’re all still seeing Merciless, Fissure, Surprise, Whirling, Javelin, Comet, and either Netch or Falcon all on constant repeat. None of those skills are Sorc. To say pure magsorc is still dominant is, maybe, short sighted. If Sorc skills were competitive everyone would be running out to get them, but they’re not.
In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
As a pure class, Sorcs didn’t (and still don’t) have the verisitlty to match the power creep after U46. In PvP crit became even more dominating and Sorcs aren’t inherently a crit modifying class. Plus, many skill in the Sorc tool kit either had limited range (5m) or required the attacker to stand-in-the-stupid which is easily avoidable. Sorcs also don’t bring the main, key, buffs & debuffs sought in PvP.
As for DKs, the changes only highlight the power creep I’ve spoken of. The net changes to DK have resulted in skills that have higher performance than they did before, which makes sense, as the Devs admitted that subclassing outperforms base classes in PvP.0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
Are you talking about PvE???
In PvP If you’re dropping SC you’re picking up a skill line that offers major resolve, like Earthen Heart (the only DK line you didn’t mention). SC, EH, and RL are the go to utility skill lines, EH is new on this list."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah seriously, 1vX is not a measure of anything beyond how bad the X is, though it does demonstrate the extreme power gap caused by busted sets/stats.Urzigurumash wrote: »A clip of the Lebomb James of ESO pwning pugs just doesn't cut it in this court, sorry. Objection, irrelevant
When one good player wipes an entire 24man structured zerg raid like they could do with ground oils in 2014, then maybe we can say 1vX is an issue.
Casual PvPers will need more than a week to adapt to the meta. Sweaty players haven't even adapted yet. Being good doesn't make you immune to knee jerk opinions.
pure DK is nuking everyone in duels
Do we not remember when there was a stretch of about what, 4 years where MagNB and MagSorc were absolute kings when it came to duels? It’s been one week and we’re supposed to be up in arms cause a pure class is beating the mutt meta no one liked.. i can’t really sympathize with any of this, subclassing was so harmful to ESO anyone complaining about pure class power just seems insane to me. Will fighting against DKs get old over the next few months, yes. Is it worse than fighting against SorcWardens that constantly reset the fight, nope.
Honestly, what are we angry about? Are you trying to play a pure class other than a DK? Cause that wasn’t competitive before u49 either.. maybe you made it work cause you’re a top 2%er I dunno. But the majority of players ran meta mutts cause pure classes couldn’t compete. U49 is the first step at giving power back and also reasons to play other characters than the one “main” with all the skill points to pick and choose the best skill lines.
Subclassing WAS harmful, no doubt about it. But if we look at it objectively, I think you and I can at least agree that if ZOS makes one class stronger than everything else, then people will also naturally gravitate towards that class. Such is the case for pure DK. I know there are still subclased builds in Cyro, but there are also a lot more DKs now and once the meta settles you will see just more DKs than previous meta builds. I think it's fair to say that, bar enthusiasm, this patch has actually reduced diversity compared to last patch.
The main issue I am discussing in this thread is that pure DK is currently so far ahead of other pure classes that other non-DK pure class mains like me will now have 3 options:
1) Play DK
2) Use a subclass build
3) Sit out for the patch
None of these options involve playing our own pure class, which is honestly pretty disheartening. I don't enjoy DK's playstyle, nor do I want to subclass to compete. That is why I said I will sit out for the patch because as a pure Sorc, I simply cannot compete with people on equal skill level as me because they are a DK and I am not.
Prior to U49
1) Subclass
2) Try harder than everyone still die to meta subclass
I promise I get it, months of DKs running around is gonna be rough for non DKs. It’s a necessary evil, I would rather fight DKs and werewolves for the next 6 months, then Wardens/DKs/Werewolves, as the trickle in, instead of fighting the subclass meta for two and half years straight. The harm subclassing caused goes beyond balance, some of us have 8 characters and have only played 2-3 since last summer cause there’s no point in running a pure Necro rn, or prior to U49 a StamDK."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations2 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
Are you talking about PvE???
In PvP If you’re dropping SC you’re picking up a skill line that offers major resolve, like Earthen Heart (the only DK line you didn’t mention). SC, EH, and RL are the go to utility skill lines, EH is new on this list.
No I’m talking about PvP.
And I don’t disagree that EH is now also on the list .. but .. also remember that crit is the current meta so most of what I’m seeing from the DK subclassing choices are damage skills as opposed to defensive buffs.
One could get away without having Major Resolve if they’re running a strong HoT that’s hitting crits near every tick. Resolve is good but it’s not the only way to mitigate damage in PvP nowdays. I don’t see a lot of players in top tier PvP putting as much resource into pen as they do into crit so I can see why Resolve is a good choice but in the grand scheme if one can slot Flame Lash instead I can see why they might pivot over to that, or at least slot it to try.0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
Are you talking about PvE???
In PvP If you’re dropping SC you’re picking up a skill line that offers major resolve, like Earthen Heart (the only DK line you didn’t mention). SC, EH, and RL are the go to utility skill lines, EH is new on this list.
No I’m talking about PvP.
And I don’t disagree that EH is now also on the list .. but .. also remember that crit is the current meta so most of what I’m seeing from the DK subclassing choices are damage skills as opposed to defensive buffs.
One could get away without having Major Resolve if they’re running a strong HoT that’s hitting crits near every tick. Resolve is good but it’s not the only way to mitigate damage in PvP nowdays. I don’t see a lot of players in top tier PvP putting as much resource into pen as they do into crit so I can see why Resolve is a good choice but in the grand scheme if one can slot Flame Lash instead I can see why they might pivot over to that, or at least slot it to try.
EH also gives crit dmg and has Corrosive. Sorry dude I guess we’re seeing different things."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations3 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭prior to U49 a StamDK.
I would say StamDK went extinct in the wild about 5 years ago, and the remaining geriatrics in captivity departed with the change to Take Flight, Corrosive, Noxious, Venomous Claw, AND Stonefist to Flame Damage. Maybe this idea of "Martial"=Stam and Magical=Mag is long gone, but anyhow...
From a certain POV Monomyth diminishes the necessity of Major Resolve, since per my memory/testing Major Protection is perfectly equivalent to Major Resolve (same goes for Breach and Berserk). Me I wear Chudan a lot, but I hate it 😂
But yeah EH is now a Crit Line too, surprisingly. First time DK has ever had any unique modifier to Crit whatsoever.
Edited by Urzigurumash on March 19, 2026 3:00AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭In fact, after these DK changes I’m seeing more players that had Storm Calling as a subclass dump it in exchange for either AF or DP.
Are you talking about PvE???
In PvP If you’re dropping SC you’re picking up a skill line that offers major resolve, like Earthen Heart (the only DK line you didn’t mention). SC, EH, and RL are the go to utility skill lines, EH is new on this list.
No I’m talking about PvP.
And I don’t disagree that EH is now also on the list .. but .. also remember that crit is the current meta so most of what I’m seeing from the DK subclassing choices are damage skills as opposed to defensive buffs.
One could get away without having Major Resolve if they’re running a strong HoT that’s hitting crits near every tick. Resolve is good but it’s not the only way to mitigate damage in PvP nowdays. I don’t see a lot of players in top tier PvP putting as much resource into pen as they do into crit so I can see why Resolve is a good choice but in the grand scheme if one can slot Flame Lash instead I can see why they might pivot over to that, or at least slot it to try.
EH also gives crit dmg and has Corrosive. Sorry dude I guess we’re seeing different things.
EH gives crit, yes, but only when casting an EH ability.
Most hardcore crit meta builds run Contigency or Soul burst as their self heal burst plus self HoT; which grants minor resolve. Some lean on Vigor as it scales pretty high and grants major resolve.
Prior to the DK refresh players were already able to achieve above max crit modifier scaling with easily 80%+ frequency. .. EH would be worthwhile to consider but mostly if one wasn’t already using a scribed skill which brings a lot to the table in PvP.
EH is a good skill line but many of these hard hitting builds want heavy bursts. I’ve seen some CA used but not many, rather, Take Flight is much more popular from what I’m seeing. And that makes sense because anyone with a strong HoT is going to offset a good amount of Corrosive Armors damage; CA may bypass resistance but it doesn’t ignore healing .. whereas one Take Flight + one Merciless is going to chunk nearly anyone’s health bar, regardless of HoT ticks, especially from a max crit build.
So yeah, I suppose we’re seeing different things.Edited by NxJoeyD on March 19, 2026 3:04AM0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
2 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot anyone.
VD stacks off the number of players it affects, so in order to stack to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then stacks its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.Edited by NxJoeyD on March 19, 2026 7:43AM1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot a properly built player; emphasis on the properly built.
VD scales off the number of players it affects, so in order to scale to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then scales its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.
You can, and I've done it in game0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot a properly built player; emphasis on the properly built.
VD scales off the number of players it affects, so in order to scale to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then scales its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.
You can, and I've done it in game
How are you getting VD to "one shot" in a duel when the set requires a kill in order to proc? You'd win the duel before the set can proc .. that doesn't make any sense.2 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot a properly built player; emphasis on the properly built.
VD scales off the number of players it affects, so in order to scale to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then scales its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.
You can, and I've done it in game
How are you getting VD to "one shot" in a duel when the set requires a kill in order to proc? You'd win the duel before the set can proc .. that doesn't make any sense.
Because DK is that strong. I'll show a clip sometime later.0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot a properly built player; emphasis on the properly built.
VD scales off the number of players it affects, so in order to scale to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then scales its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.
You can, and I've done it in game
How are you getting VD to "one shot" in a duel when the set requires a kill in order to proc? You'd win the duel before the set can proc .. that doesn't make any sense.
Because DK is that strong. I'll show a clip sometime later.
DK has nothing to do with it.
I don’t think you understand. The Vicious Death gear set cannot apply any damage until after a player kill is made, that’s what triggers it.
In a duel, that means that Vicious Death could not do anything to your opponent until after they were already dead.
This is what I mean by Vicious Death cannot one shot in a duel because it cannot affect in a duel, it can’t proc.1 -
Major_Mangle✭✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot a properly built player; emphasis on the properly built.
VD scales off the number of players it affects, so in order to scale to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then scales its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.
You can, and I've done it in game
How are you getting VD to "one shot" in a duel when the set requires a kill in order to proc? You'd win the duel before the set can proc .. that doesn't make any sense.
Because DK is that strong. I'll show a clip sometime later.
DK has nothing to do with it.
I don’t think you understand. The Vicious Death gear set cannot apply any damage until after a player kill is made, that’s what triggers it.
In a duel, that means that Vicious Death could not do anything to your opponent until after they were already dead.
This is what I mean by Vicious Death cannot one shot in a duel because it cannot affect in a duel, it can’t proc.
The point he's making from my understanding is that DK is on a powerscale so far ahead that you can essentially "waste" a 5 piece bonus (like VD in a 1v1) and still achieving burst damage high enough to 1 tap someone on a proper build within a GCD.Edited by Major_Mangle on March 19, 2026 7:50AMPs4 EU 2016-2020
PC/EU: 2020 -0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot a properly built player; emphasis on the properly built.
VD scales off the number of players it affects, so in order to scale to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then scales its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.
You can, and I've done it in game
How are you getting VD to "one shot" in a duel when the set requires a kill in order to proc? You'd win the duel before the set can proc .. that doesn't make any sense.
Because DK is that strong. I'll show a clip sometime later.
DK has nothing to do with it.
I don’t think you understand. The Vicious Death gear set cannot apply any damage until after a player kill is made, that’s what triggers it.
In a duel, that means that Vicious Death could not do anything to your opponent until after they were already dead.
This is what I mean by Vicious Death cannot one shot in a duel because it cannot affect in a duel, it can’t proc.
I understand how VD works, and I'm telling you that DK can kill without the VD proc.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot a properly built player; emphasis on the properly built.
VD scales off the number of players it affects, so in order to scale to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then scales its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.
You can, and I've done it in game
How are you getting VD to "one shot" in a duel when the set requires a kill in order to proc? You'd win the duel before the set can proc .. that doesn't make any sense.
Because DK is that strong. I'll show a clip sometime later.
DK has nothing to do with it.
I don’t think you understand. The Vicious Death gear set cannot apply any damage until after a player kill is made, that’s what triggers it.
In a duel, that means that Vicious Death could not do anything to your opponent until after they were already dead.
This is what I mean by Vicious Death cannot one shot in a duel because it cannot affect in a duel, it can’t proc.
The point he's making from my understanding is that DK is on a powerscale so far ahead that you can essentially "waste" a 5 piece bonus (like VD in a 1v1) and still achieving burst damage high enough to 1 tap someone within a GCD.
Yes, THANK YOU.Edited by hoangdz on March 19, 2026 7:51AM0 -
NxJoeyD✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot a properly built player; emphasis on the properly built.
VD scales off the number of players it affects, so in order to scale to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then scales its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.
You can, and I've done it in game
How are you getting VD to "one shot" in a duel when the set requires a kill in order to proc? You'd win the duel before the set can proc .. that doesn't make any sense.
Because DK is that strong. I'll show a clip sometime later.
DK has nothing to do with it.
I don’t think you understand. The Vicious Death gear set cannot apply any damage until after a player kill is made, that’s what triggers it.
In a duel, that means that Vicious Death could not do anything to your opponent until after they were already dead.
This is what I mean by Vicious Death cannot one shot in a duel because it cannot affect in a duel, it can’t proc.
The point he's making from my understanding is that DK is on a powerscale so far ahead that you can essentially "waste" a 5 piece bonus (like VD in a 1v1) and still achieving burst damage high enough to 1 tap someone on a proper build within a GCD.
His comment was “these VD builds can one shot” implying that it was the VD set that was yielding the kill, which is why I thought he was talking about the set proc.
As for DK power scale, that’s debatable. DK is stronger after the re-work, for sure. In PvP crit is king and if a player is properly built then nobody is going to one shot them, not even a DK. A player that’s not properly built, sure, a DK can one shot them but so can a number of subclassed builds running crit + Merciless.
My character, for example, I’m not a crit focus but I’m properly built, no build has ever one shot me, including DKs. I can take crit Merciless even with major & minor breach .. so anyone who’s getting one tapped in PvP, no, they’re not properly built.3 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭Major_Mangle wrote: »BardokRedSnow wrote: »Good. Heinous subclass meta has been addressed.
Now we move onto the root cause of extreme tank/burst polarization: busted sets/stats.
Nuke Monomyth and I bet my account the meta is immediately less terrible. I have been saying this since the damn thing released on PTS (and it's even more insulting because it's P2W) but since it doesn't show up doing 15k on your death recap I guess let's nerf DK instead?
Nuke Vicious Death and noobs are no longer double punished just for being noobs.
How literally are we taking this? Because nothing comes even remotely close to what a cp 2000++ Nightblade could do during 1.6 era. When you show me a DK that can front bar gank, then swap to back bar 1vx duel-brawler, let me know lol.
Come to think of it, with the power-creep inflation when all class refreshes are finished, maybe we going full circle here.Urzigurumash wrote: »
That React video can be seen as an exhibit of the extreme multiplicative scaling of differences between other elements VD provides. Best player, best class, extreme gimmick set.
I see some comments about my video so ill just share some info here about that build & the class.
That build is using bloodspawn. It has 40k spell resist and 32k+ physical resist. It has 4k crit resist. It uses 3 defensive blue CP. It has infinite sustain, like i could not possibly ever run out, and I'm using less than 1k of both regens fully buffed.
In most of the clips in this video, id been kiting these groups of 5-10+ players around for minutes at a time. This isn't some glass cannon bomber that dies 90% of the time they send an attempt.
It has the damage to easily kill a properly built, 35k HP rallying cry player. Like, I can do 35k damage in one GCD to a player like that. While running VD frontbar.
Nothing in the history of the game has been capable of this level of damage with these stats. I'm using VD because big number funny, but you can accomplish similar results with acuity, any crit damage/chance set, or even a defensive set frontbar. That is how strong this class is. The sets are good sure, but they aren't what is enabling the power level. It is the reworked class.
Im having a blast anyways, I hope they bring every class up to this level. It would certainly be preferable to the subclassing slop we've had this past year.
Ok DK is in a really good spot right now, but let's not exaggerate things though...
You can absolutely not kill a properly built 35k health player in rallying cry in one global while having Vicious Death slotted. Not unless there's an improperly built player next to him.
A quick trip to Alik'r (or Stormhaven on NA I suppose) would prove this.
You still need to build around dueling/burst sets, and most of the fights between top players are still stalemates or take a long time at the very least.
If a one GCD burst happens, it is going to take sets like Kjalnar/Gorethief or Acuity combined with an opponent mistake (e.g. undodged Shattering Rocks during that window).
Untrue.
On these targets, I'm seeing;
5k+ hearts
5k+ incinerates
12k+ power lashes
2k+ molten armaments
4k+ shattering
3k+ corrosive ticks
2k+ light attacks
1k+ burning ticks
500+ bashes
Easily netting 35k potential in one GCD on these players. Those numbers can nearly double on some of the naked people in cyrodiil as well.
That's all fine and all on paper, but it doesn't exactly check out in practice, here's why:
You're assuming crits on everything without acuity (astronomically small chance), Corrosive tick landing (5m radius, positional desyncs in actual fights), molten armaments being off cooldown (won't be 2k dmg, hits for less than the light attacks and burning ticks) and that the opponent doesn't have any heal over time or even health regen ticking.
In actuality killing properly built players requires them to be lower health to begin with, which indicates more than one global.
This is sometimes the case even on builds that further min-max the single target damage (khajiit, 7 divines, blind or encratis over bloodspawn etc, a 5p that does something on front in these situations like Gorethief etc) - you very often can have people surviving with all that added damage (like 30-40% more on that one global) even if you land your CC+delayed just because you get unlucky with crits... this is why you still have a lot of stalemate duels, even between people with much less health than the 35k.
If react says he can do it I would believe him lol. Its not that it can't be done, and I can vouch for saying it can because I've seen it, its that I don't think commonly it can by just any old joe shmoe
And in the case of duels, I gotta say, I've actually seen much less of those myself because the damage on the floor has been raised. I had one stalemate duel because I tried to tank up while keeping damage as much as possible and created the scenario where this guy, on pelican's build more or less could burst me if I messed up, but I couldn't burst him, and he wanted my telvar lol.
So I hopped away until a third guy came in and it was a 1v1v1, and that third guy was a subclass dk with streak, and he ended up running.
That was the only time someone didn't die vs before when that was very common. In this meta, someone is dying more times than not. Which is a good thing imo.
Weird take, first of all you don't know whom you're talking to (which is fine, different megaserver and not everyone spends a lot of time watching streams) and secondly your account ID doesn't make you do more damage than someone else...
I'd recommend testing these Vicious Death builds against good players in Alik'r on EU or Stormhaven on NA - let me know how that works out. If someone dies to that in one global from 100% they are not properly built.
We get it, you are ESO’s top PvP theory-crafter (by results, 52.8 KDR & 75% WR), and also the Magnus Carlsen of ESO. No question about it.
Also, that VD build can 1 shot someone properly built. Even easier to do so in a group of random pugs. In fact, that’s where it shines best.
In a duel, no, VD isn’t going to one shot a properly built player; emphasis on the properly built.
VD scales off the number of players it affects, so in order to scale to one-shot levels of damage it NEEDS to affects multiple players; simply having one or two in range won’t cut it.
As for a duel, no, VD can’t one shot because the primary proc is a death, so one person has to die in order to proc the set which then scales its damage off the other players in the area and then affects them.
In a duel it’s 1v1 so VD can’t proc until after you’re dead in which case you already lost.
VD is a set designed to break up ball groups. It’s not useful in 1v1s or 1v1v1s.
You can, and I've done it in game
How are you getting VD to "one shot" in a duel when the set requires a kill in order to proc? You'd win the duel before the set can proc .. that doesn't make any sense.
Because DK is that strong. I'll show a clip sometime later.
DK has nothing to do with it.
I don’t think you understand. The Vicious Death gear set cannot apply any damage until after a player kill is made, that’s what triggers it.
In a duel, that means that Vicious Death could not do anything to your opponent until after they were already dead.
This is what I mean by Vicious Death cannot one shot in a duel because it cannot affect in a duel, it can’t proc.
The point he's making from my understanding is that DK is on a powerscale so far ahead that you can essentially "waste" a 5 piece bonus (like VD in a 1v1) and still achieving burst damage high enough to 1 tap someone on a proper build within a GCD.
His comment was “these VD builds can one shot” implying that it was the VD set that was yielding the kill, which is why I thought he was talking about the set proc.
As for DK power scale, that’s debatable. DK is stronger after the re-work, for sure. In PvP crit is king and if a player is properly built then nobody is going to one shot them, not even a DK. A player that’s not properly built, sure, a DK can one shot them but so can a number of subclassed builds running crit + Merciless.
My character, for example, I’m not a crit focus but I’m properly built, no build has ever one shot me, including DKs. I can take crit Merciless even with major & minor breach .. so anyone who’s getting one tapped in PvP, no, they’re not properly built.
It's not debatable, it's a fact.0 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭For example I am using @React 's VD build for dueling in Stormhaven. 2 duels so far and I'm already nuking people with VD front bar:
https://youtu.be/FO7p_t1fvoU
https://youtu.be/ZTL2f41DXwk
My defensive stats:
Technically it's not 1 GCD but it's still within 2 GCDs, and for a build that has VD front bar, what is the difference anyway lol? I'm on a bomb build and nuking people specced for duels while barely having any experience on the class.0 -
xR3ACTORx✭✭✭✭Cool. As an arcanist pvp main who dislikes subclassing I'll probably return to ESO when the arcanist is reworked after it has been nerfed so many times...In 2-3 yearsEdited by xR3ACTORx on March 19, 2026 9:02AM1