Markytous wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

wow dude. Just wow. Authentic gameplay.... just wow.

I'm not seeing all these people you are talking about. And I know I'm in when you are because I see you and your blue compatriots running around.

Maybe we have different ideas of populated.

Your point being that if the player uptick being your faction would change your mind...? I don't group when I run IC ever, by the way. "The increase in players isn't real because they're not on my team"-type logic. Maybe your faction was full of queue-out addon exploiters. Become the authentic player in a sea of cheaters.

I have 3 toons I pop in of 3 different factions so I have no 'team'. I'm seeing no one anywhere except DC and you with the DC hoarde. Sometimes the 3 AD team comes in but no more single questers or the little boss groups that I used to see.

I also have toons on each faction. Your point? I just wiped a group of 16+ players with my Necromancer. Groups like that haven't been around save for maybe a Midyear Mayhem. Cope. The population is up rn.

having just come in onl ybig group were the usual blue and a big red for about 15 mins. Lol what ever you need to tell yourself man

Stop calling people cheaters. It's childish.

Waits_Behind_Walls wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

Enjoy the content that you like and let players who enjoy the brutal nature of Imperial City (the way it was initially designed) enjoy it.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said I was going to do, and explained why. As for seeing more people since the patch, if you say so. I don't think anyone was avoiding the zone because it wasn't PVP enough or they didn't understand that was the purpose of it, so I don't see any reason why people would be drawn in now. Anyway.

If you want the zone populated, as has historically been the complaint about the PVP zones, it needs to be more enjoyable for different playstyles. The sewer gauntlet run is annoying when you're forced to do it, but probably wouldn't be bad as its own thing for its own sake. I wouldn't know, I just associate it with the drudgery of trying to exit the zone after I've already grown tired of playing. They could give people more options for exiting, like doors you pay Tel Var to use, or more options for dropping off Tel Var, like a smuggler who takes a cut. People have already suggested making the recall stones more easily obtained. The zone can become less burdenson without making it less PVP-oriented.

What originally drew me in was a place where I could actually setup one-shot ganks with preparation (easy to build up ult from the PvE mobs), with benchmark targets (since most people farming there out in the open build tanky, most of the time), so it was a place where I could really theory-craft one-shots.

Then I was drawn to it being a PvE area where killing monsters actually results in tangible monetary gains through the sale of Hakeijo, partially offset by the cost of recall stones and needing to backtrack.

Then I learned about porting out using the queue, and it all became so much easier:
- Farm/Gank till about 5K Tel Var and port immediately.
- Setup a port, gank and port immediately. (Not sure if this edge-case has been covered, but it should be addressed if still possible).
- Cloak if found and setup a port after escaping, since unlike the recall stones you don't turn visible.

Honestly I figured out how people were disappearing during fights and after turning around corners lol.

Hakeijo has long since dropped in price from when it was 50K per, but who knows. Now that there are fewer people farming, might be that it raises back up in price. Might be time to head back in (after I'm finished having fun with/setting up my DK for PvE)

I do think that some of the PvE sources should have chances to reward recall stones though, as IC isn't purely a PvP zone, it's a PvEvP zone. And if added to things like chests, boss fights, the Arena, or even a chance from the various vaults (to give more reason to use the key fragments), it'd help flesh out the gameplay cycle of the area. And because hey: using a recall stone isn't instant, and makes you visible, so you'll still want to find a corner to use it if there's high-traffic.

coop500 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

As things stand now, this change killed the "risk and reward" gameplay some people are blathering on about completely.

Because there's only a "risk" if you're carrying TV. If you're not, there's no risk involved. You may die, but who cares about that.

Again, you should only be able to get as many TV as you're carrying yourself. Want to nick 3k from someone else? Carry those 3k around with you.

This isn’t a terrible idea.
Your gains from a player being capped by your carried Tel Var.

So let’s say you bomb 3 people, you’re carrying 3,000, you kill one player, you get 3,000 and then Vicious Death procs and you can then gain another 6,000 from both players who died to Vicious Death.

Would do wonders to reign in single target ganking, as the playstyle would still exist, you would just need to be smarter about it.

I suggested this for years but people usually hate on it. But I agree that it's the only way to make it truly risk vs reward and for fairness.

If people had an effect around them incrementally based on how much Tel Var they carried, a ganker could make an entire minigame out of it. 😂

Not talking about a visual effect, I mean the part in which players should only be able to take based on what they're carrying (cap it at whatever you're carrying and/or use the already existing multiplier system.)

AKA encourage gankers to also have to risk their stones if they want to rob people. I don't really care what hairsplitting way it's done, just SOMETHING.

maybe they well allow an add-on that banks tv for you every time your over 100 then you can free travel using the add-on to quick escape, IC can be controlled by add-ons like how end game speed runs are zos just loves their add-ons controlling their game play im sue they be ok if some popular add-on maker made it as popularity in eso matters more then functionality of the add-ons made

cyclonus11 wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Just curious but what happens to your telvar in IC if you find a quiet corner and Alt-F4 out of the game or simply crash?

After about 15 minutes, it will kick you from IC and you'll log back into the last PVE area you queued from.

Which brings up a good point - you could always make your IC tasks the last thing you do for the day, go to one of the invulnerable areas, hit the power button on your PC, and go to bed.

i think this only happens if there are population issues/queues. i leave my characters in ic and cyro for the entire duration of midyear mayhem and they have never been kicked out. granted, the ic one is right near the exit, but the one in cyro i leave way far out from any sort of wayshrine/exit/teleportation stone. they are always right where i left them when i log in the next day

Just pvd in Cyrodiil, I tagged along with a pvp guild and made 6 million ap during mym in a few nights. I unlocked the emperor dyes too. Addons are being updated to hotkey ic retreat runes.

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Stop calling people cheaters. It's childish.

If you're still able to queue out by means of jumping from CP to Non-CP Imperial City, you can still cheat.

I don't get why anybody is upset. Sigils of Imperial Retreat have always been available to leave when you wanted to. The only thing that was changed was an exploit that let you leave risk-free, defeating the purpose of the Imperial City entirely. If Sigils of Imperial Retreat are "too expensive" for you, then why are you trying to force yourself into PVP content? If you can't find the AP to purchase 1-2 Sigils (they're cheap and can be found for free occasionally), what are you trying to do forcing yourself to play PVP content when you don't like PVP? This is the question that everybody dodges when trying to defend/lament an exploit and it being fixed by the developers.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Stop calling people cheaters. It's childish.

If you're still able to queue out by means of jumping from CP to Non-CP Imperial City, you can still cheat.

I don't get why anybody is upset. Sigils of Imperial Retreat have always been available to leave when you wanted to. The only thing that was changed was an exploit that let you leave risk-free, defeating the purpose of the Imperial City entirely. If Sigils of Imperial Retreat are "too expensive" for you, then why are you trying to force yourself into PVP content? If you can't find the AP to purchase 1-2 Sigils (they're cheat and can be found for free occasionally), what are you trying to do forcing yourself to play PVP content when you don't like PVP? This is the question that everybody dodges when trying to defend/lament an exploit and it being fixed by the developers.

Someone enjoying IC doesn't mean they enjoy Cyrodiil or vice versa. The sigils are a stunningly poor cost to use ratio for many players. And they are certainly not worth buying to get a daily done.

And the port was only an issue from people exploiting during combat. A leave command that stunned you for 15 seconds or whatever and couldn't be used in combat with fix that without making people have to go through a bunch of loading screens. It can even keep the Tel-Var cost. I wouldn't care. I just don't want to be attacked in loading screens, don't want people running up on me for death taxis, and don't want to have spend 10 minutes trying to haul 20 seconds worth of gems to base.

Sincerely, what is wrong with the Sigils of Imperial Retreat?

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Stop calling people cheaters. It's childish.

If you're still able to queue out by means of jumping from CP to Non-CP Imperial City, you can still cheat.

I don't get why anybody is upset. Sigils of Imperial Retreat have always been available to leave when you wanted to. The only thing that was changed was an exploit that let you leave risk-free, defeating the purpose of the Imperial City entirely. If Sigils of Imperial Retreat are "too expensive" for you, then why are you trying to force yourself into PVP content? If you can't find the AP to purchase 1-2 Sigils (they're cheat and can be found for free occasionally), what are you trying to do forcing yourself to play PVP content when you don't like PVP? This is the question that everybody dodges when trying to defend/lament an exploit and it being fixed by the developers.

Someone enjoying IC doesn't mean they enjoy Cyrodiil or vice versa. The sigils are a stunningly poor cost to use ratio for many players. And they are certainly not worth buying to get a daily done.

And the port was only an issue from people exploiting during combat. A leave command that stunned you for 15 seconds or whatever and couldn't be used in combat with fix that without making people have to go through a bunch of loading screens. It can even keep the Tel-Var cost. I wouldn't care. I just don't want to be attacked in loading screens, don't want people running up on me for death taxis, and don't want to have spend 10 minutes trying to haul 20 seconds worth of gems to base.

Sincerely, what is wrong with the Sigils of Imperial Retreat?

I literally just explained it. They are a stunningly poor cost to use ratio.

Imperial City was designed to be Cyrodiil's Public Dungeon (PVP). You're not even supposed to come in unless you have AP. Not a satisfactory explanation to why Sigils don't work.
EDIT:inb4 "enjoy your ghost town"

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

sleepy_worm wrote: »

Stop calling people cheaters. It's childish.

If you're still able to queue out by means of jumping from CP to Non-CP Imperial City, you can still cheat.

I don't get why anybody is upset. Sigils of Imperial Retreat have always been available to leave when you wanted to. The only thing that was changed was an exploit that let you leave risk-free, defeating the purpose of the Imperial City entirely. If Sigils of Imperial Retreat are "too expensive" for you, then why are you trying to force yourself into PVP content? If you can't find the AP to purchase 1-2 Sigils (they're cheat and can be found for free occasionally), what are you trying to do forcing yourself to play PVP content when you don't like PVP? This is the question that everybody dodges when trying to defend/lament an exploit and it being fixed by the developers.

Someone enjoying IC doesn't mean they enjoy Cyrodiil or vice versa. The sigils are a stunningly poor cost to use ratio for many players. And they are certainly not worth buying to get a daily done.

And the port was only an issue from people exploiting during combat. A leave command that stunned you for 15 seconds or whatever and couldn't be used in combat with fix that without making people have to go through a bunch of loading screens. It can even keep the Tel-Var cost. I wouldn't care. I just don't want to be attacked in loading screens, don't want people running up on me for death taxis, and don't want to have spend 10 minutes trying to haul 20 seconds worth of gems to base.

Sincerely, what is wrong with the Sigils of Imperial Retreat?

I literally just explained it. They are a stunningly poor cost to use ratio.

Imperial City was designed to be Cyrodiil's Public Dungeon (PVP). You're not even supposed to come in unless you have AP. Not a satisfactory explanation to why Sigils don't work.

That was quickly ditched years ago for being bad for the game and then they did a bad job of adjusting the gameplay and items of IC to cover that. At this point, IC has been it's own thing longer than it has not.

So yeah, actually, it is a good reason. The item that actually makes the mode tolerable being locked behind a completely separate game mode is bad design.

All patting one's self on the back aside, the reasoning fails to coincide with the fact that the exploit is on its way out of the game completely, clearly showing the intent of the current dev team and what the vision of the Imperial City aught to be. Players looking to not participate in amorphous PvPvE gameplay where their opponent might just vanish suddenly out of fear of losing are now returning to the Imperial City for the first time in a long time. Contending with this fact is the challenge, one can suppose.

Markytous wrote: »

All patting one's self on the back aside, the reasoning fails to coincide with the fact that the exploit is on its way out of the game completely, clearly showing the intent of the current dev team and what the vision of the Imperial City aught to be. Players looking to not participate in amorphous PvPvE gameplay where their opponent might just vanish suddenly out of fear of losing are now returning to the Imperial City for the first time in a long time. Contending with this fact is the challenge, one can suppose.

Yeah, no. I don’t know where you’re getting all of these mythical PVP players returning to IC like it’s a healed ecosystem, but the place is a ghost town when I go in. I’ll see maybe three people in an hour if I’m lucky.

To be clear, I like PVP. I enjoy fights and will engage with both IC and Cyrodiil. But when I went into IC before, I’d farm for a bit, leave to bank what I got, come back, farm some more, and so on. I’d do this about three or four times in a session.

Sigils of Imperial Retreat cost 10,000 AP a pop. Do you think I want to spend 30,000 to 50,000 AP every night just for the “privilege” of not walking somewhere for ten minutes and soaking up a bunch of load screens? Does anyone want to do that?

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

All patting one's self on the back aside, the reasoning fails to coincide with the fact that the exploit is on its way out of the game completely, clearly showing the intent of the current dev team and what the vision of the Imperial City aught to be. Players looking to not participate in amorphous PvPvE gameplay where their opponent might just vanish suddenly out of fear of losing are now returning to the Imperial City for the first time in a long time. Contending with this fact is the challenge, one can suppose.

Yeah, no. I don’t know where you’re getting all of these mythical PVP players returning to IC like it’s a healed ecosystem, but the place is a ghost town when I go in. I’ll see maybe three people in an hour if I’m lucky.

To be clear, I like PVP. I enjoy fights and will engage with both IC and Cyrodiil. But when I went into IC before, I’d farm for a bit, leave to bank what I got, come back, farm some more, and so on. I’d do this about three or four times in a session.

Sigils of Imperial Retreat cost 10,000 AP a pop. Do you think I want to spend 30,000 to 50,000 AP every night just for the “privilege” of not walking somewhere for ten minutes and soaking up a bunch of load screens? Does anyone want to do that?

You don't sound like a person who likes PVP. Sigils can be found free. If you actually played Imperial City on your own time you'd know this. Also, here's an alternative to leaving that doesn't involve using a Sigil of Imperial Retreat; using Faction Base Camps Telling me you like PVP but you don't like spending a couple minutes in a PVP zone. Come on.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

You don't sound like a person who likes PVP. Sigils can be found free. If you actually played Imperial City on your own time you'd know this. Also, here's an alternative to leaving that doesn't involve using a Sigil of Imperial Retreat; using Faction Base Camps Telling me you like PVP but you don't like spending a couple minutes in a PVP zone. Come on.

You’ve misconstrued my words. I didn’t say I don’t like spending time in a PVP zone. I said I don’t like needing to spend extra time and effort just to leave the PVP zone. If faction base camps were a good option, there wouldn’t be complaints period.

Yes, Sigils drop in the zone, but not really from fights. I can’t kill a player and be rewarded with Sigils. NPCs rarely drop them. And I’ll be damned if I’m going to open a treasure chest in IC. So, again we come back to the AP spending issue.

Why are you so adamant that people not have a convenient way to leave IC when they’re done with it? No one is arguing that we should be able to just zap away from fights in-progress. We’re arguing that it’s dumb that you need an entire separate item with a cost to leave AT ALL, and that you can't queue out from your alliance base if you have too much Tel Var, which makes no sense whatsoever because what fight are you running from? It’s literally the safe zone.

The Sigil is the silver bullet to your discord/guilds' arguments. There's literally nothing wrong with it if you enjoy PVP and no excuses can sidestep this. There is nothing inconvenient about it. If you literally want to fight players and nothing else (kill Trove Scamps/Open Chests/Buy From Vendor), there are Battlegrounds available. I've told PVE players that maybe IC isn't for them and now I am telling a so-called PVP player that maybe IC isn't for them. Its a unique PvPvE environment that I enjoyed just how it was before exploits were set in motion. Call it a ghost town all you may, it deserves to exist as it is, just as PVP and PVE content exists in the game.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

The Sigil is the silver bullet to your discord/guilds' arguments. There's literally nothing wrong with it if you enjoy PVP and no excuses can sidestep this. There is nothing inconvenient about it.

Clearly, you think that thousands of AP a night is a trivial cost to someone who prefers IC over Cyro, and I’m just going to have to disagree with you on that point.

Markytous wrote: »

If you literally want to fight players and nothing else (kill Trove Scamps/Open Chests/Buy From Vendor), there are Battlegrounds available. I've told PVE players that maybe IC isn't for them and now I am telling a so-called PVP player that maybe IC isn't for them. Its a unique PvPvE environment that I enjoyed just how it was before exploits were set in motion.

I’ll tell you what. You pay for my subscription, and then you can tell me what parts of the game are or aren’t “for me”. Until then, please keep those kinds of comments and so-called thoughts to yourself.

It’s nice that you enjoy it, but you can’t just brush aside the fact that others don’t, and for good reasons.

Once again, I will point out that no one is bothered about not being able to queue out during a fight, which is what the exploit argument boils down to. People are upset that the solution wasn’t to simply block queuing out while you’re in combat. I mean, you can’t log out or shut the game down while in combat. Why is preventing queues so hard?

Markytous wrote: »

Call it a ghost town all you may, it deserves to exist as it is, just as PVP and PVE content exists in the game.

When a company sinks resources into a product, and the product does worse than it did before the resources went into it, one of two things happen. Either the changes get rolled back, or the product gets shelved. I don’t want to see IC shut down. But at this rate, the playerbase for it isn’t growing. It’s shrinking. And I would think that you would notice the fact that you’re the only one in this entire thread championing this so hard, and maybe pivot or try to see other perspectives, rather than smugly declaring that there’s no argument against this.

So you're saying basically that if exploiters fund the game content, exploits should run the game. Can't agree there.
"But the cash cows and whales are all exploiters and exploit-promoting individuals! Follow the money!"

Imperial City is free and included with the base game. This is the place (the forums) to try to ask the developers to change Imperial City back to a more exploit-centric "content", however this is also the place where players such as myself will make counterarguments in favor of less dishonest "gameplay". This thread only exists because an exploit was patched (and yet as of now is still in the game). If a person does not enjoy District Roaming, Sewers Roaming, PVP, PVE farming, Treasure Chest farming, Cunning/Trove Scamp hunting, etc., then its valid to suggest that they should look elsewhere to spend their time. Nobody should be trying to argue that they should go stub their toes repeatedly because eventually the thing they keep kicking to stub their toes will eventually change (or in this case stay the same). Why stomp out the identity of the Imperial City when options for PVP and PVP exist elsewhere? Its about easy currency, isn't it? And, if it isn't about easy currency, then why care so much? PVE players have loads of content to select. PVP players have Battlegrounds (I hesitate to mention Cyrodiil because players complaining about inconvenience in IC must hate mounting for a moment keep to keep). People are very upset that Imperial City's exploitable state is finally under the lens of ZOS. I think the solution to all of this is for people to just stick to what content they enjoy. This is good life advice as well. Less stress is happier living.

Just be happy that Lightning Staff Tri-Focus glitching for 1shots is still in the game. Hopefully that exploit is also patched one day.

EDIT: Appealing to the mob is kinda crazy. Just because everyone's eating junk food, doesn't mean its healthy or I should do it.