CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

hilarious the number of people blatantly complaining that they cant exploit combat logging anymore.

IMO if they want to keep porting for que timing they could, but to counteract the combat logging situation they should have done what any other loot drop game does and make your character remain afk in place for 15s after you leave. So if you combat port the enemy still has a chance to kill you for doing so.

That implies people were queueing when they got into combat, which afaik you can't do ANYTHING when in combat other than fight.

Probably because people were (and still are thanks to a bug) queueing out mid combat. With addons it literally takes 1 button and you're out in 5 seconds or less. Want to escape a fight scott-free? Pop a defensive ulti, hit your queue button, and you're gone with 0 counterplay.

It's also disengenous because people have been saying that it's stupid you can't port out while in a safe space.

It's not one or the other. Even people celebrating this change think it should have been done differently. ZOS likely can't go with the better solution of preventing a queue while in combat, or only allowing a queue in a safe zone, or they would have. The limit should be higher, but stopping people exploiting the queue to escape in the middle of combat needs to happen.

That's a bug ZOS needs to fix, then. But even if people WERE queueing to get into Cyro while in combat, what stops them from being in a group with someone in a VC somewhere, then say to queue for Random Daily Dungeon with one of them as a tank to get a near instant port out that way? If this scooting while in combat bug was why this change was made, they didn't do a very good job of fully preventing it.

Also yeah, I wasn't meaning to imply people who are happy with the change are all saying it was done flawlessly or anything. I was specifically responding to that person because they were basically saying ONLY people who did this kind of thing were made and seeming to ignore that there are people who are irritated not that they can't escape from immediate danger, but that they can't port out that way even when in safe areas where they can't lose their TV anyway.

Thank you. There is literally no incentive. I used to help with bringing noob pvpers into the sewers for one of my guilds. We'd get to the middle, defeat Molag Bal and get like 3 gold. That's just insulting honestly. But we did it because it was fun and then we'd pop into cyrdil for the next part of the evening or pop back to base to to the overland IC quests.

We're not sure now how we are going to approach this as we have a time limit and now no way to leave when time is up. That's just dumb.

I used to go in for fun to kill 10 or 15 mins but now? That won't be happening at all. /when I need to leave I need to leave, and thats it. I have no intention of locking myself into this foolishness.

DrGIggles80 wrote: »

Imp City restored to it's original glory is awesome. Anyone who is crying they can't farm tv now should up their pvp game. after all it is a pvp zone. They could drop the price on sigil of retreat to help the complainers a bit. Other than that watch your back the pvp wolf are hungry.

They won't up their game, they just won't go. I doubt most PVPers will even be there outside of mayhem.

Whatever you have to tell yourself man. I see you and your guys every night in empty IC now. Not even the occasional wanderer anymore. But you got what you wanted so I hope you enjoy the ghost town

blktauna wrote: »

Whatever you have to tell yourself man. I see you and your guys every night in empty IC now. Not even the occasional wanderer anymore. But you got what you wanted so I hope you enjoy the ghost town

Imperial City has been a ghost town for a very long time, and, ironically, it has more players now than in that very long time right now. Evidence has shown that this update has been successful in bringing back the players that dipped out when exploiting the Tel Var system for free money (queue outs of combat assisted by addons) was added to the game. Meanwhile, myself, the actual resident "occasional wanderer", have been wandering the streets and sewers of IC for years (a lot of hours on my own farming the PVE) have seen a big boost in players already. I have been farming IC for years regardless, and I have indeed got what I wanted. More players now, same good ol' fun. Turns out exploits push away players looking for authentic gameplay experiences. If people are mad an exploit is removed, it says volumes about who are petitioning for it to stay.

Markytous wrote: »

Enjoy the content that you like and let players who enjoy the brutal nature of Imperial City (the way it was initially designed) enjoy it.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said I was going to do, and explained why. As for seeing more people since the patch, if you say so. I don't think anyone was avoiding the zone because it wasn't PVP enough or they didn't understand that was the purpose of it, so I don't see any reason why people would be drawn in now. Anyway.

If you want the zone populated, as has historically been the complaint about the PVP zones, it needs to be more enjoyable for different playstyles. The sewer gauntlet run is annoying when you're forced to do it, but probably wouldn't be bad as its own thing for its own sake. I wouldn't know, I just associate it with the drudgery of trying to exit the zone after I've already grown tired of playing. They could give people more options for exiting, like doors you pay Tel Var to use, or more options for dropping off Tel Var, like a smuggler who takes a cut. People have already suggested making the recall stones more easily obtained. The zone can become less burdenson without making it less PVP-oriented.

Just curious but what happens to your telvar in IC if you find a quiet corner and Alt-F4 out of the game or simply crash?

blktauna wrote: »

wow dude. Just wow. Authentic gameplay.... just wow.

I'm not seeing all these people you are talking about. And I know I'm in when you are because I see you and your blue compatriots running around.

Maybe we have different ideas of populated.

Your point being that if the player uptick being your faction would change your mind...? I don't group when I run IC ever, by the way. "The increase in players isn't real because they're not on my team"-type logic. Maybe your faction was full of queue-out addon exploiters. Become the authentic player in a sea of cheaters.

Markytous wrote: »

"I can't cheat the system anymore so Imperial City should not exist at all. Forget the people who enjoyed it for what it was since the beginning!" You were never forced to play Imperial City. If its not for you, play something else.

EDIT: I don't know a single game or game community that says things like "This game is good because of the hackers/cheaters in it".

Indeed, which is why no one's saying that. It's an objective fact.

Markytous wrote: »

Waits_Behind_Walls wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

Enjoy the content that you like and let players who enjoy the brutal nature of Imperial City (the way it was initially designed) enjoy it.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I said I was going to do, and explained why. As for seeing more people since the patch, if you say so. I don't think anyone was avoiding the zone because it wasn't PVP enough or they didn't understand that was the purpose of it, so I don't see any reason why people would be drawn in now. Anyway.

If you want the zone populated, as has historically been the complaint about the PVP zones, it needs to be more enjoyable for different playstyles. The sewer gauntlet run is annoying when you're forced to do it, but probably wouldn't be bad as its own thing for its own sake. I wouldn't know, I just associate it with the drudgery of trying to exit the zone after I've already grown tired of playing. They could give people more options for exiting, like doors you pay Tel Var to use, or more options for dropping off Tel Var, like a smuggler who takes a cut. People have already suggested making the recall stones more easily obtained. The zone can become less burdenson without making it less PVP-oriented.

Its definitely more attractive to people who don't like exploits this update because literally the only thing thats changed is that you cannot cheat/exploit with queueouts during combat or imminent danger without a Sigil of Imperial Retreat. Its not a good hill to die on that the sky is falling because you cannot cheat/exploit anymore. Imperial City has increased in players since the update. Its an objective fact as of right now and could fall off at any time; as of now groups are running around again. People can cope about the reason why the population has increased, saying that its not because the exploit was removed, but that is the only change that has occurred in the content. Coping that people like exploits and come to games/content because the game lets them cheat is self-serving and disingenuous. The community at large, I believe, aren't a bunch of exploiters/cheaters. They're gamers who want to play grounded, diverse gameplay spaces with choices on how to play. If they want a more hardcore experience, Imperial City is there for them. Otherwise, there is an abundance of options outside of the Imperial City that are less daunting/consume less time commitment.

"I can't cheat the system anymore so Imperial City should not exist at all. Forget the people who enjoyed it for what it was since the beginning!" You were never forced to play Imperial City. If its not for you, play something else.

EDIT: I don't know a single game or game community that says things like "This game is good because of the hackers/cheaters in it".

Well, hold on a minute there.

For starters, you are taking alot and I mean like alot of people and putting us all in the same bucket as being exploiters/cheaters. Ok, so that's not fair and it isn't nice and it shows a complete lack of empathy for those of us getting this notion projected at us unjustifiably. People aren't mad that they patched the server, I mean in fairness, this is something that should have been fixed ages ago. What needs to be understood is the reason we're kind of sad is because this means, no more casual farming no more casual experience. See before, there was always the possibility of getting you know attacked and losing out. The chance was always there. But many of us, many that I know, alot of people left Cyrodiil to go there because it made better sense to spend the time doing something gainful, yet still PvP related in IC.

We left Cyrodiil to get away from the meta crowd. I'll just say it. There's lots of people in Cyrodiil with these super strong meta builds that cut thru dozens of people like butter and just like with the ball groups, there is no PvP when they come around. Just everyone dying, sitting there unable to move due to CC and dropping out. It's depressing and I used to love Cyrodiil PvP but the metas are so strong like there is no fight, they gap close, CC and you're done. Why in the hell should I work so hard on my toons and subject myself to that kind of abuse repeatedly? Especially on certain factions, having no healers, no rez, no one cares unless you're with a Guild. And if you're someone like me and the Guild don't like you, for whatever reason, many times there is no reason... they just do what they want and so that's how you know you're an Orc when people treat you that bad over just stupid things while pretending to be 'quality' themselves.

Anyways, getting back on track, it was nice to do casual farming in IC, maybe even perhaps a short hunt or two and then just leave you know? It was nice. There was no exploiting or cheating going on. No more than the people abusing CC and anim canceling. Abuse and violence are reckless cycles. That's why the long faces because what once was a pleasant and more casual experience has turned into a Federal Prison; A maximum lockup on the lower East side.

Vulkunne wrote: »

Anyways, getting back on track, it was nice to do casual farming IC, maybe even perhaps a short hunt or two and then just leave you know? It was nice. There was no exploiting or cheating going on. No more than the people abusing CC and anim canceling. Abuse and violence are reckless cycles. That's why the long faces because what once was a pleasant and more casual experience has turned into a Federal Prison. A maximum lockup on the lower East side.

I trust that you weren't one of the cheaters/exploiters and were a legit player in IC. However, there was rampant queue-out cheat/exploiting going on (especially in the days before the update dropped) where I would see them react to battle music that plays when a player engages in the PVE of IC. Fact is, nobody legit should be upset because the only thing thats changed was an exploit. Its just as casual as it ever was (not very). If this fits the definition of prison to you, it seems like a very fun place to test skills/builds in a very unique PvPvE playspace.

EDIT: Never known an optional prison before.

Markytous wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Anyways, getting back on track, it was nice to do casual farming IC, maybe even perhaps a short hunt or two and then just leave you know? It was nice. There was no exploiting or cheating going on. No more than the people abusing CC and anim canceling. Abuse and violence are reckless cycles. That's why the long faces because what once was a pleasant and more casual experience has turned into a Federal Prison. A maximum lockup on the lower East side.

I trust that you weren't one of the cheaters/exploiters and were a legit player in IC. However, there was rampant queue-out cheat/exploiting going on (especially in the days before the update dropped) where I would see them react to battle music that plays when a player engages in the PVE of IC. Fact is, nobody legit should be upset because the only thing thats changed was an exploit. Its just as casual as it ever was (not very). If this fits the definition of prison to you, it seems like a very fun place to test skills/builds in a very unique PvPvE playspace.

EDIT: Never known an optional prison before.

I'm probably saying too much lol. But perhaps, another thing to consider. There is a difference between people fighting like in random encounters and enforcers getting called in. Meaning, if I'm farming and I get taken down, then alright they got me this time. And nothing happens. Ok. Why does nothing happen, cause I don't take everything personal. I'm cool... most of the time.

But then, let's say 'Simmons' is farming and I take Simmons out. So, then he calls 'Scott' and 'Sal' and 'Tucker' and 'Tucker's GF' all to come find me. See when we reach that point, my only option is to leave. I don't care how I do it cause perhaps Simmons was loaded. But he doesn't have to be. They could just as equally be pissed off at the fact that I off'd him.

It's complicated. Maybe queuing out wasn't right but it's still me leaving, which was in fact, the only good course of action that was left available to me cause the enforcers were coming to that level with Sentry and Detect Pots and armed to the teeth... looking for me. So yeah, it should have been patched ages ago, sure. But at the same time leaving without getting capped is the only good 'inevitability' I would say, no matter how you left. If I had stayed then I'm completely screwed, if I leave, then I'm completely saved.

But at the same time, I agree the same became absolutely ridiculous when you had people that would queue at the first sign of trouble, not as if there was a second sign but they just didn't care. And obviously the behavior was undesirable by ZOS and finally got noticed. So, you know, not asking everyone to agree but I can see it both ways. Cause the original fight was between me and a non-meta sub, not 4 meta monsters intending retaliation vs one solid orc boi who could care less really.

Like I said, it was a cycle of chaos in there and sometimes the only way forward was to just leave. It wasn't fluid, that's just... that was it.

Vulkunne wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Anyways, getting back on track, it was nice to do casual farming IC, maybe even perhaps a short hunt or two and then just leave you know? It was nice. There was no exploiting or cheating going on. No more than the people abusing CC and anim canceling. Abuse and violence are reckless cycles. That's why the long faces because what once was a pleasant and more casual experience has turned into a Federal Prison. A maximum lockup on the lower East side.

I trust that you weren't one of the cheaters/exploiters and were a legit player in IC. However, there was rampant queue-out cheat/exploiting going on (especially in the days before the update dropped) where I would see them react to battle music that plays when a player engages in the PVE of IC. Fact is, nobody legit should be upset because the only thing thats changed was an exploit. Its just as casual as it ever was (not very). If this fits the definition of prison to you, it seems like a very fun place to test skills/builds in a very unique PvPvE playspace.

EDIT: Never known an optional prison before.

I'm probably saying too much lol. But perhaps, another thing to consider. There is a difference between people fighting like in random encounters and enforcers getting called in. Meaning, if I'm farming and I get taken down, then alright they got me this time. And nothing happens. Ok. Why does nothing happen, cause I don't take everything personal. I'm cool... most of the time.

But then, let's say 'Simmons' is farming and I take Simmons out. So, then he calls 'Scott' and 'Sal' and 'Tucker' and 'Tucker's GF' all to come find me. See when we reach that point, my only option is to leave. I don't care how I do it cause perhaps Simmons was loaded. But he doesn't have to be. They could just as equally be pissed off at the fact that I off'd him.

It's complicated. Maybe queuing out wasn't right but it's still me leaving, which was in fact, the only good course of action that was left available to me cause the enforcers were coming to that level with Sentry and Detect Pots and armed to the teeth... looking for me. So yeah, it should have been patched ages ago, sure. But at the same time leaving without getting capped is the only good 'inevitability' I would say, no matter how you left. If I had stayed then I'm completely screwed, if I leave, then I'm completely saved.

But at the same time, I agree the same became absolutely ridiculous when you had people that would queue at the first sign of trouble, not as if there was a second sign but they just didn't care. And obviously the behavior was undesirable by ZOS and finally got noticed. So, you know, not asking everyone to agree but I can see it both ways. Cause the original fight was between me and a non-meta sub, not 4 meta monsters intending retaliation vs one solid orc boi who could care less really.

Like I said, it was a cycle of chaos in there.

I appreciate the balanced look at the situation you take despite our disagreements. I can tell when someone actually has experience playing the content legit and has put thought into the conclusions they've arrived at. The chaotic nature of Imperial City (largely in part of the soft "Heat" system that you've described where Tom calls Larry and Edward to snap you up after you wupped him lol), is part of what draws me in and has kept me roaming for years. Definitely not for everybody, but, in my shoes, it makes me feel like a GTA Stars system of sorts in Elder Scrolls Online Puts pressure on me that makes me focus and calculate how I'm going to handle situations. Puts weight into my actions and instills consequences - drama - where otherwise my MMO gameplay wouldn't have it. Again, thanks for the balanced response.

blktauna wrote: »

Markytous wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

wow dude. Just wow. Authentic gameplay.... just wow.

I'm not seeing all these people you are talking about. And I know I'm in when you are because I see you and your blue compatriots running around.

Maybe we have different ideas of populated.

Your point being that if the player uptick being your faction would change your mind...? I don't group when I run IC ever, by the way. "The increase in players isn't real because they're not on my team"-type logic. Maybe your faction was full of queue-out addon exploiters. Become the authentic player in a sea of cheaters.

I have 3 toons I pop in of 3 different factions so I have no 'team'. I'm seeing no one anywhere except DC and you with the DC hoarde. Sometimes the 3 AD team comes in but no more single questers or the little boss groups that I used to see.

I also have toons on each faction. Your point? I just wiped a group of 16+ players with my Necromancer. Groups like that haven't been around save for maybe a Midyear Mayhem. Cope. The population is up rn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A3qOq9p9CM&feature=youtu.be

I can't speak to other servers or times, but I have noticed a lack of people in IC when I went to check. Here's my last check.