Okay, we’ve gotta talk. (False Copyright)

Radiate77 · 7:05AM

I don’t care what side of the fence you are on when it comes to add-ons, if this strike came from someone on this forum I want that person to know that they are not welcome here.

Add-On creators are champions of the community, they go out of their way to provide a free service to everyone.

It’s one thing to not like a specific add-on, it’s another thing entirely to push forward a false copyright strike against it. Such a surreal reminder every time some degen does something like this, that the actions of one person, or tiny group of people, can alter and degrade the experience for everyone.

spartaxoxo · 7:08AM

I hope this gets resolved fairly and swiftly.

BahometZ · 7:49AM

May whoever submitted that false strike have an eternity of swamp butt, stubbed toes and hair on the tip of their tongue.

FlameDark · 7:54AM

May their pillow always be warm and they forget to plug in their phone charger to the wall when they charge it at night!

frogthroat · 8:00AM

I can understand greed. I can understand suppressing what you don't like. If there is a way to make money or to suppress something that you find embarrassing, I get it. I don't condone it, but I get it.

But a lib for free addons? What is the gain in false copyright strikes?

Emeratis · 8:21AM

False DMCA claims harm everyone involved and make the system harder when genuine copyright threats occur. I hope this is resolved swiftly.

Radiate77 · 8:29AM

For anyone wondering how severe this False Copyright is, here are just a few of the Add-Ons that we now no longer have access to.

jaekobcaed · 8:39AM

Sorry, but can someone explain to me how you can copyright strike a free addon to a copyrighted game that only ZOS holds the rights to?

And whoever did this is absolutely pathetic. It's totally fine for people to not like addons. I, myself, barely use them. But ruining the experience for hundreds/thousands of players is beyond petty.

LunaFlora · 8:43AM

wow this is awful

Emeratis · 8:47AM

jaekobcaed wrote: »

Sorry, but can someone explain to me how you can copyright strike a free addon to a copyrighted game that only ZOS holds the rights to?

And whoever did this is absolutely pathetic. It's totally fine for people to not like addons. I, myself, barely use them. But ruining the experience for hundreds/thousands of players is beyond petty.

When addons were first added to console, some people decided to port over addons without the original author's consent or before they could do so themselves. Some of these people porting over addons added paypal/kofi links and/or added things to the addon code that could be harmful such as blacklisting a certain guild's price listings in a price check addon. I know several addonmakers and they write and maintain their own code. Similar to how there are several ways to draw a flower, there are several ways to do something in coding.

Anyway, this was brought up to ZOS and they agreed it was problematic and attempted to make it easier to remove stolen addons/code. Before today, everyone played by the rules and used it appropriately. Nobody knows who did this yet, but I and a few others specualte it might be someone with a grudge against one or a few addonmakes because all three of the addons copyright struck are from people who have long or verified reputations. One of the addons struck is a dependency used by most addons which is why so many are currently broken.

Also if anyone sees this and I said something wrong please correct me, I admit I've mostly been listening to friends vent or following along on the sidelines.

Maitsukas · 8:50AM

There was a person here who was recently very vocal about add-ons automating actions with a single click/script (like Wizard's Wardrobe and LWC), they've been rather quiet now...

jaekobcaed · 8:57AM

Emeratis wrote: »

jaekobcaed wrote: »

Sorry, but can someone explain to me how you can copyright strike a free addon to a copyrighted game that only ZOS holds the rights to?

And whoever did this is absolutely pathetic. It's totally fine for people to not like addons. I, myself, barely use them. But ruining the experience for hundreds/thousands of players is beyond petty.

When addons were first added to console, some people decided to port over addons without the original author's consent or before they could do so themselves. Some of these people porting over addons added paypal/kofi links and/or added things to the addon code that could be harmful such as blacklisting a certain guild's price listings in a price check addon. I know several addonmakers and they write and maintain their own code. Similar to how there are several ways to draw a flower, there are several ways to do something in coding.

Anyway, this was brought up to ZOS and they agreed it was problematic and attempted to make it easier to remove stolen addons/code. Before today, everyone played by the rules and used it appropriately. Nobody knows who did this yet, but I and a few others specualte it might be someone with a grudge against one or a few addonmakes because all three of the addons copyright struck are from people who have long or verified reputations. One of the addons struck is a dependency used by most addons which is why so many are currently broken.

Also if anyone sees this and I said something wrong please correct me, I admit I've mostly been listening to friends vent or following along on the sidelines.

Ah I think I get it. I appreciate the overview!

frogthroat · 8:57AM

If this for consoles only? Or does this affect PC as well? Because using Minion I can still see LibHarvensAddonSettings and LibQRCode, but not Tamriel Savings Co. Never heard of Tamriel Savings Co, though.

jaekobcaed wrote: »

Sorry, but can someone explain to me how you can copyright strike a free addon to a copyrighted game that only ZOS holds the rights to?

The code you write is your copyright.

If someone copies your code and uses it in their program/application/addon, you can copyright strike them.

Since the law is pretty strict when it comes to copyright law, when a copyright claim is made, the platform will limit access to the material until the dispute is resolved. If they wouldn't and it turns out to be a legitimate copyright claim, the platform could be held liable for distributing copyrighted material without permission.

This opens a door to abuse, because platforms don't want to take the risk. Youtube has a huge issue with this where people copyright strike videos they don't like. Most ad revenue is made within the first couple of days of publishing a video, so if you copyright strike that video and then don't answer, delaying the resolution as long as you can, the video will be re-published after a few days but now it's already "old" and do not receive as much attention and thus not as much ad revenue.

jaekobcaed · 8:58AM

frogthroat wrote: »

The code you write is your copyright.

If someone copies your code and uses it in their program/application/addon, you can copyright strike them.

Since the law is pretty strict when it comes to copyright law, when a copyright claim is made, the platform will limit access to the material until the dispute is resolved. If they wouldn't and it turns out to be a legitimate copyright claim, the platform could be held liable for distributing copyrighted material without permission.

This opens a door to abuse, because platforms don't want to take the risk. Youtube has a huge issue with this where people copyright strike videos they don't like. Most ad revenue is made within the first couple of days of publishing a video, so if you copyright strike that video and then don't answer, delaying the resolution as long as you can, the video will be re-published after a few days but now it's already "old" and do not receive as much attention and thus not as much ad revenue.

It seems like a bit of a stretch to run a copyright claim on code for a free addon in a paid game that's owned wholly by a game studio that the addon devs aren't a part of. I doubt a strike like that could possibly hold up in a court.

Then again, I'm no lawyer and I agree that it opens a major door to abuse.

Last'One · 9:07AM

I honestly don’t know whether to laugh or cry at this point. The way ZoS handles these situations, and the fallout for the community, is just incredibly.

It’s a tragedy that years of community work can vanish instantly because of copyright "red tape". When an author reclaims their rights and ZOS stays silent, the players are the ones who lose. Oh boy....

frogthroat · 9:15AM

jaekobcaed wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

The code you write is your copyright.

If someone copies your code and uses it in their program/application/addon, you can copyright strike them.

Since the law is pretty strict when it comes to copyright law, when a copyright claim is made, the platform will limit access to the material until the dispute is resolved. If they wouldn't and it turns out to be a legitimate copyright claim, the platform could be held liable for distributing copyrighted material without permission.

This opens a door to abuse, because platforms don't want to take the risk. Youtube has a huge issue with this where people copyright strike videos they don't like. Most ad revenue is made within the first couple of days of publishing a video, so if you copyright strike that video and then don't answer, delaying the resolution as long as you can, the video will be re-published after a few days but now it's already "old" and do not receive as much attention and thus not as much ad revenue.

It seems like a bit of a stretch to run a copyright claim on code for a free addon in a paid game that's owned wholly by a game studio that the addon devs aren't a part of. I doubt a strike like that could possibly hold up in a court.

Then again, I'm no lawyer and I agree that it opens a major door to abuse.

ZOS has nothing to do with this. Forget about what the addon is for. If you make a program of any kind, for any purpose, and you distribute it to the public, the code must be yours. Even if it is an addon for a paid game that is owned by a game studio. The studio does not control your addon. You do.

For example, this is what I wrote:
10 for x=1 to 99
20 print (100-x);" bottles of beer on the wall..."
30 next x

If you copy this and add it to your application, regardless what the app is for, even if it's an addon to some game, I would have a case for copyright striking your application.

Paramedicus · 9:44AM

you can't forbid me to drink beer lol

> : (

frogthroat · 9:49AM

Last'One wrote: »

The way ZoS handles these situations,

How would you expect a platform to handle this?

Leave the striked addons and risk being sued themselves?

This is why the abuse of the system works, the platform cannot take the risk of leaving the copyright striked material online while the dispute is on-going. If they would, they would also be liable. It's not ZOS' fault, it's the copyright law.

If those addons do not contain any "stolen" code, they will be re-published after a while.

Unfortunately, those who make false copyright strikes usually (well... always) go unpunished. And their abuse clogs the system for legitimate copyright strikes.

Radiate77 · 10:07AM

frogthroat wrote: »

Unfortunately, those who make false copyright strikes usually (well... always) go unpunished. And their abuse clogs the system for legitimate copyright strikes.

Depends on what you consider punishment. It’s a bit harder to prove Bad Faith outside of Civil Court, but if Zenimax wanted to bury this bad actor in fines, they absolutely have the power to do so.

I hope they do.

Last'One · 10:14AM

My new addon update will include the following legal copyright notice:

"By installing and initializing this Add-on, the User hereby enters into a binding micro-contract with the Author. You agree to a mandatory "Usage Royalty" of $1.00 USD per session. Failure to remit payment to the Author’s offshore account within 24 hours of login constitutes a breach of this contract.
Note to ZeniMax Online Studios: Since your Terms of Service state that you own all customized materials but do not permit commercial exploitation, this Add-on is currently in a 'Quantum Legal State.' By allowing this Add-on to function, ZOS implicitly acknowledges this debt. To avoid further liability, ZOS is encouraged to either pay the tab or exercise their right to disable this software immediately."

frogthroat · 10:37AM

Last'One wrote: »

My new addon update will include the following legal copyright notice:

"By installing and initializing this Add-on, the User hereby enters into a binding micro-contract with the Author. You agree to a mandatory "Usage Royalty" of $1.00 USD per session. Failure to remit payment to the Author’s offshore account within 24 hours of login constitutes a breach of this contract.
Note to ZeniMax Online Studios: Since your Terms of Service state that you own all customized materials but do not permit commercial exploitation, this Add-on is currently in a 'Quantum Legal State.' By allowing this Add-on to function, ZOS implicitly acknowledges this debt. To avoid further liability, ZOS is encouraged to either pay the tab or exercise their right to disable this software immediately."

I don't think you have read the section 2D of the TOS.

Heronisan · 10:44AM

I know so many who is not going to touch eso now, if its not fixed within reasonable time ill unsub and play something else.

Last'One · 10:55AM

frogthroat wrote: »

Last'One wrote: »

My new addon update will include the following legal copyright notice:

"By installing and initializing this Add-on, the User hereby enters into a binding micro-contract with the Author. You agree to a mandatory "Usage Royalty" of $1.00 USD per session. Failure to remit payment to the Author’s offshore account within 24 hours of login constitutes a breach of this contract.
Note to ZeniMax Online Studios: Since your Terms of Service state that you own all customized materials but do not permit commercial exploitation, this Add-on is currently in a 'Quantum Legal State.' By allowing this Add-on to function, ZOS implicitly acknowledges this debt. To avoid further liability, ZOS is encouraged to either pay the tab or exercise their right to disable this software immediately."

I don't think you have read the section 2D of the TOS.

oh

R.I.P Well…
Some players run a million addons, others barely use any. Easy solution: make it equal. nobody gets addons! Disable them!!!! xD

Renato90085 · 11:21AM

Maitsukas wrote: »

There was a person here who was recently very vocal about add-ons automating actions with a single click/script (like Wizard's Wardrobe and LWC), they've been rather quiet now...

he forum account got ban,the last week his post all delete,but PTS still have other one post

lillybit · 11:35AM

I happened to be looking at the addon list a day or 2 ago. Libharven.... had just over 100k users.

That's over a hundred thousand people effected because of one person's petty grudge.

Was going to say more but don't think I need to!

LootAllTheStuff · 11:50AM

frogthroat wrote: »

jaekobcaed wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

The code you write is your copyright.

If someone copies your code and uses it in their program/application/addon, you can copyright strike them.

Since the law is pretty strict when it comes to copyright law, when a copyright claim is made, the platform will limit access to the material until the dispute is resolved. If they wouldn't and it turns out to be a legitimate copyright claim, the platform could be held liable for distributing copyrighted material without permission.

This opens a door to abuse, because platforms don't want to take the risk. Youtube has a huge issue with this where people copyright strike videos they don't like. Most ad revenue is made within the first couple of days of publishing a video, so if you copyright strike that video and then don't answer, delaying the resolution as long as you can, the video will be re-published after a few days but now it's already "old" and do not receive as much attention and thus not as much ad revenue.

It seems like a bit of a stretch to run a copyright claim on code for a free addon in a paid game that's owned wholly by a game studio that the addon devs aren't a part of. I doubt a strike like that could possibly hold up in a court.

Then again, I'm no lawyer and I agree that it opens a major door to abuse.

ZOS has nothing to do with this. Forget about what the addon is for. If you make a program of any kind, for any purpose, and you distribute it to the public, the code must be yours. Even if it is an addon for a paid game that is owned by a game studio. The studio does not control your addon. You do.

For example, this is what I wrote:
10 for x=1 to 99
20 print (100-x);" bottles of beer on the wall..."
30 next x

If you copy this and add it to your application, regardless what the app is for, even if it's an addon to some game, I would have a case for copyright striking your application.

Actually, you wouldn't. You might have a case for making a false DMCA claim, but that's not the same thing. Copyright law is a bit more complicated since there's the principle, and then there's what you need to do if you want your copyright to be actually enforceable.

That's beside the point, though, which is that (1) whoever filed the false claim against the add-on authors is a [Insert expletive of choice here] and (2) ZOS need to get this resolved ASAP, then review their process to prevent further such abuse. Given how long the affected add-ons have been around, this take-down should not have happened.

frogthroat · 12:44PM

LootAllTheStuff wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

jaekobcaed wrote: »

frogthroat wrote: »

The code you write is your copyright.

If someone copies your code and uses it in their program/application/addon, you can copyright strike them.

Since the law is pretty strict when it comes to copyright law, when a copyright claim is made, the platform will limit access to the material until the dispute is resolved. If they wouldn't and it turns out to be a legitimate copyright claim, the platform could be held liable for distributing copyrighted material without permission.

This opens a door to abuse, because platforms don't want to take the risk. Youtube has a huge issue with this where people copyright strike videos they don't like. Most ad revenue is made within the first couple of days of publishing a video, so if you copyright strike that video and then don't answer, delaying the resolution as long as you can, the video will be re-published after a few days but now it's already "old" and do not receive as much attention and thus not as much ad revenue.

It seems like a bit of a stretch to run a copyright claim on code for a free addon in a paid game that's owned wholly by a game studio that the addon devs aren't a part of. I doubt a strike like that could possibly hold up in a court.

Then again, I'm no lawyer and I agree that it opens a major door to abuse.

ZOS has nothing to do with this. Forget about what the addon is for. If you make a program of any kind, for any purpose, and you distribute it to the public, the code must be yours. Even if it is an addon for a paid game that is owned by a game studio. The studio does not control your addon. You do.

For example, this is what I wrote:
10 for x=1 to 99
20 print (100-x);" bottles of beer on the wall..."
30 next x

If you copy this and add it to your application, regardless what the app is for, even if it's an addon to some game, I would have a case for copyright striking your application.

Actually, you wouldn't. You might have a case for making a false DMCA claim, but that's not the same thing. Copyright law is a bit more complicated since there's the principle, and then there's what you need to do if you want your copyright to be actually enforceable.

That's beside the point, though, which is that (1) whoever filed the false claim against the add-on authors is a [Insert expletive of choice here] and (2) ZOS need to get this resolved ASAP, then review their process to prevent further such abuse. Given how long the affected add-ons have been around, this take-down should not have happened.

That was meant to be a (very) simplified version of what can happen, not an analysis of the copyright law. But even then, yes, you can absolutely file DMCA on any stolen code. You just can't sue without registering it. Anyway, like you said this is beside the point. Just showing that companies must and do take copyright claims very seriously.

Your points:
(1) absolutely. Fully agree. Sounds like a person who in some other games gets kicked out of private servers for cheating and then pay for a DDOS attack on the server.
(2) unfortunately it is not (completely) up to ZOS. When a takedown notice is filed, they better take it down. The one uploading it has to then send a response. If they deny any copyright infringement, the ball is back to the one who filed the DMCA. And they have ... what, like two weeks time to respond or file a lawsuit. If they fail to do so, the content may be re-published. But it takes time. This is exactly the reason why Youtube copyright strikes are so annoying, because the dishonest party can delay a video for two weeks. I doubt that the person who files the copyright strikes is going to respond, so it will probably take that two weeks before the addons are back. Good point that the affected addons have been around for a long time so there could, theoretically, be a possibility ZOS could manually review the takedowns if they are done by bad actors. But even then, they would need to be absolutely certain to dismiss the takedown. So, hopefully, ZOS can and will verify the addons manually. But in the worst case scenario, the addons will be back in two weeks.

code65536 · 1:05PM

In case people are curious:
https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explained/the-digital-millennium-copyright-act-dmca/write-dmca-takedown-notice/

The person filing a claim only needs to assert that they have a "good faith belief" that there's infringement, and if they're wrong, they face no consequences unless the other party decides to sue (and since addons are just hobbies that make absolutely zero revenue, it's highly unlikely that there will be any countersuits).

Paramedicus · 1:16PM

that does not sound too good..

DenverRalphy · 1:25PM

code65536 wrote: »

In case people are curious:
https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explained/the-digital-millennium-copyright-act-dmca/write-dmca-takedown-notice/

The person filing a claim only needs to assert that they have a "good faith belief" that there's infringement, and if they're wrong, they face no consequences unless the other party decides to sue (and since addons are just hobbies that make absolutely zero revenue, it's highly unlikely that there will be any countersuits).

Does it have to be the other party? Or could ZOS threaten to do so claiming damages as a result? Of course it'd be like trying to squeeze water from a rock. But it would set a precedent to mitigate future occurances.

DragonRacer · 1:29PM

Absolute clown shoes, all of this.

Torpedo two major platforms’ add-ons affecting thousands of users. This seems entirely too easy a system to abuse.