PTS Update 49 - Feedback Thread for Night Market

MSattrtand · January 27

coop500 wrote: »

People with Pale Order should try running without Pale Order and see how it goes.

I've tried. It was fine. The beam build with Reaving Blows and Crit Surge. Then I dropped Reaving Blows - Crit Surge together with healing from flail and shield from beam was enough, even with Velothi.

Then I tried running with stam jabs. Velothi, not RoPO - Reaving Blows and Crit Surge was good enough again.

The most comfortable build was with mag jabs, Reaving Blows, Crit Surge and RoPO - that's probably overkill.

I was dying only from getting stunned and killed during it - I haven't used to the all mobs' moveset to reliably block/dodge the attack, which stuns. With RoPO, I didn't even have problems surviving small mobs whilst being stunned - Hurricane, Blockade, and Caltrops gave me enough livesteal to survive; only getting heavies during the stun was actually deadly.

Shadesofkin · January 27

A good balance just bordering on difficult, I would definitely not say easy. Reminds me more of day 1 Craglorn in the VR days.

It requires you play smart. It's a free temporary event, I'm down for this.

OgnevkaFenella · January 27

I had some time to try this out too, so I will add my feedback also.

Build: tideborn+orders wrath+pale order, basically a copy of Hyperioxes' solo build for skills and other stuff.
I play like an hour of ESO per week, I've never done trifectas, I am a fairly average player and I usually hide behind my friends and barely solo anything. That is to say, I do not know what an off-balance window is.

I will only comment on difficulty and the mini-trial as rewards/story aren't super interesting to me and I only have a very limited time to play this.

How have you found the difficulty of the Night Market? Please provide any additional context to the difficulty ratings below.
-> Well-balanced

I can kill the trash packs basepop if I lock in a little, basically as long as I'm slowly walking in a circle around them and blocking heavies, it's fine. The bosses are too difficult for me, but I also do not expect to solo a trial boss, so no issues with that. I think the difficulty of the basepop between different districts is kind of weird, the sand area has one million hackwings snaring and staggering me for 7 business days, the blue area is chill, and the green area has evil spiders. I also think uppercut CC from mobs is very 2015 and we as a society should not allow mobs to handle us like popcorn.

Did you play Night Market solo, with a random group, or an organized group (friends/guild members)?

Solo, I was checking it out on my lunch break and there were only a couple of people around. This is why I have no issues with the difficulty - when the zone goes live, there will be pugs going constantly and I will be able to trail along them just fine.

Did anything not function to your expectations?

Sometimes Pale order breaks, I'm not good enough with cmx to test this but I'm sure Hyperioxes/Code/luchtt have better info on this as they also experienced this bug. Also, respawn time is soooo long! Once you are teleported up, there's no reason to idle in ghost form, it really slashes your momentum.

Do you have any other general feedback?

I've done the mini-trial with a group yesterday and I found it rather interesting, however the visibility of the mazes on the map is awful, the fact that delivery beacons do not light up until the orb bearer is near them makes it very confusing. I had my minimap turned off on PTS and I was lost in the sauce the whole time:/

TheKaan · January 27

Just wanna add my two cents after a TON of time in the Night Market, mostly as a solo player but also with small groups and a big zerg. Calibrating difficulty for those 3 player experiences is not easy - you can't bullseye all 3 so you aim for a middle ground between them.

The difficulty is about right. Here's why:

SOLO
1. Some people are bringing unsuitable builds and that's causing a disconnect in feedback.
2. Yes, choosing to solo obviously makes it harder, but most of it is still doable with crafted gear and a simple rotation.
3. Those who don't enjoy such a challenge can easily group up or follow the crowd. It's a choice.

SMALL GROUP
1. Fights become far easier and shorter with even 3 players. Much of the threat is already gone.
2. A Tank and 3 average DDs seems a decent middle ground for challenge and accessibility.
3. More optimised groups (e.g. that coordinate their sets and time their ults) can nuke things fast.

BIG GROUP
1. The sense of fun really starts to diminish here. Even with zero coordination fights often feel trivial.
2. Only roaming bosses and skirmishes stay alive for long (mostly due to immunity phases).
3. With multiple groups all converging on bosses as they spawn, that sense of difficulty is much reduced.

Like I said, they can't bullseye all 3. But ZOS seem to have tried to balance the Night Market so that it IS possible to solo much of it, to the detriment of groups who would prefer a bit more of a challenge. To be clear, I think that's the right move.

Setup: Pragmatic Fatecarver + Reaving Blows. No other heals or shields (Herald of the Tome, Storm Calling, Assassination).

Kyzeragon · 1:27AM

Opulent Ordeal

Went in with a group of 12 raiders, experience ranging from a few to all trifectas. 3 tanks, 2 healers, 7 dps, but we weren't well optimized. A few had already done it earlier, and (mostly 😒) avoided spoiling it so the rest of us could figure it out.

Positives:

Encounter design for the essence running is :chefkiss:! A bit reminiscent of the Last Wish vault and Crota's End.
I love encounters that make use of communication and coordination, like Maarselok and especially the recent Vykand. This scratches that itch and more.
Look what you've done, now I have to go pull teeth to get people to do the grind so we can all go to the trial.

Negatives:

I almost never see the Incandescent Pods in the middle until I end up accidentally picking them up.
The Drylands spawn point for the essence is more difficult to discover than the other areas. If the essence spawns in the Eclipse, your goal is very obvious when you enter the Eclipse because the outline of the pedestal is immediately visible. But when it spawns in the Drylands, it isn't immediately visible. There is the large floating ghost that you can see from the middle area, but it wasn't obvious to us that that's where the essence would be. It would be easier now that we've had time to look at the map and notice where all the spawns were, because it was easy to get lost in the areas themselves. Would it be possible to increase the range on the pedestal outline visual?
The map is a little "bland," especially at minimap size, which made the Drylands somewhat difficult to navigate. More contrast to show the walkable paths would be nice.
As for the actual boss fight portion, the bosses feel a smidge too tanky. They each have 50m health after the essence relay is complete, which is just a bit less than, say, Yandir and Vrol on vet, but there are 3 of them, though it would be possible to get perfect cleave on them with Fatecarver to speed it up. That said, I think the reason it feels like a slog is that the mechanics aren't particularly interesting / there aren't enough mechanics. Bombs appear to occur every ~70s, but only on one side, which means it can be pretty long between mechanics on one side, and the occasional affinity-specific mechanic only requires 1 person, so there isn't much else to do besides just... parse.

Turtle_Bot · 6:03AM

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

For some context, here's the build I was using to solo the trash packs within the Night Market:
1 Bar build, using Oakensoul, Sorcerer class (pure), Lightning staff heavy attack.
Skills:

Gear:

Some Notes:
Mundus is Shadow (Crit Damage + Crit Healing)
Food is Jewels of Misrule (max health + tri-recoveries, it's what I had on hand at the time)
All armor enchants are Max Magicka
Weapon Enchant is "Hardened" or the damage shield enchant
Jewelry enchants are all spell damage
Slotted champion points:
Blue:
Arcane Supremecy (max mag)
Fighting Finesse (crit damage/healing)
Master at arms (direct damage done)
Weapons Expert (increased light/heavy attack damage)
Red:
Siphoning spells (restore mag on kill)
Slippery (1 free break free every 21 seconds)
Boundless Vitality (max health)
Celerity (movement speed)
No Addons used (I don't have them installed in my PTS folder, so they are disabled by default on PTS)
No Scribing Skills
No Sub-classing

@code65536 @coop500 I suggest reading my post, specifically the part in the spoiler that I have quoted here, sharing my Oakensoul Sorcerer build that I used in the Night Market, that is also the build I use for all other PvE content I do in this game (mostly due to being too lazy to switch to a better build and partly due to no need to swap to a better build for anything not specifically vet DLC group content).
No Pale Order, No Trial Gear, No Addons, No Scribing, No Sub-classing, No high end gear or consumables, Pets slotted and completely solo, was able to beat the packs of trash mobs (even the CC spamming cliff racer packs) just fine with my ~250-300ms ping.
I am also not an "end-game" PvEer, sticking mostly to normal PuG trials, normal PuG dungeons, some vet (nonHM) dungeons and overland stuff when I do PvE content.

Bosses with that build required either 1 additional person, or adjusting the build a bit for more consistent survivability (probably Pale Order required here) and more area damage, but for someone who just wants to explore the zone, farm trash packs for favor for the unlocks and not looking to chase the trial/bosses, that build was more than capable.

It was even performing better (better survivability and more consistent damage) than any of the reworked DKs that I randomly encountered within the Night Market.

There is also plenty of room for improvement on that build, with any of the aforementioned things I wasn't using such as sub-classing, scribing, pale order mythic, better food, better champion points, etc. and just in general better ping/latency than what I have.

Lastly, this build will work on any class, but outside of the refreshed DK, most will need scribing for shield soul to mimic hardened ward.
Slot shield soul (scribing skill) in place of hardened ward, slot class AoE DoTs/other abilities in place of pets, slot class heal over time in place of crit surge, slot preferred ultimate in place of Atro. An example would be the following Nightblade setup:
- Siphoning strikes in place of crit surge for free sustain + heal on dealing damage (no need to activate it)
- Twisting path in place of scamp for AoE DoT
- Spec bow in place of matriarch (spec bow has a massive heal if it hits an enemy in melee range)
- Shield soul in place of hardened ward
- Soul tether in place of atronach (tether has a stun and heal over time making it better defensively than atro).

As a side note, I would love to see the actual builds being used that are struggling so much in the Night Market, including actual screenshots/lists of the skills, gear, etc. like what I provided above to better understand what is going wrong and why they are struggling.

Varana · 1:48PM

coop500 wrote: »

Currently, one side is trying to shut out and silence the other with insults, accusations and manipulation towards the devs as to why our feedback isn't as valuable.

That's my impression as well, though probably the other way around than you meant.

To make things more clear from where I come from:
This will be the only dungeon-like content for the entire year.
There will be lots and lots of solo and quest content.
But for dungeon groups, this is it. Nothing else.

And even that only for a limited time.
Which is, frankly speaking, scandalous, and a truly horrible design approach that should generate more outrage.
Time-gating content is bad, period.

And because they decided to not have variable difficulty, we get this awkward in-between that's neither completely right nor wrong for almost anyone.
But because this is the "dungeon" content for this year, players who like dungeon content would probably like to have at least a bit of a challenge, and that the difficulty not be turned down too much.
Because again, there will be lots of other stuff, that will be there forever.

---

As for the feedback questions:

"How have you found the difficulty of the Night Market?"

Went in yesterday with basically a DK tank, with some adaptations. Survival was fine, and I could dragonbreathe down trash packs consistently, even though it was a bit slow.
Briefly grouped with another player for the Brazen Crow boss but had to disband because of time. Main issue were the adds, and with a full four-man group, they should die quickly enough.

"How do you feel about the distribution of rewards during this event zone?"

Didn't get a lot. A blue Mother's Sorrow robe, I think, from the "kill 25 enemies" daily. Shall I really tell you how I feel about that? ;D

"How did you enjoy the Event Zone?"

Quite ... confusing.
The UI is unhelpful and shows too much unnecessary information (faction score? why?) and too little information (what is a Skirmish, and why is it inactive? why is it under "Scoreboard"? how to get the keys for higher-tier bosses? etc.). Honestly, that needs a complete overhaul from the ground up.
The overworld entrance is well hidden and not reflected on the map at all.
The quest didn't work (see my post in the bug thread, and I also sent it in-game).
Couldn't accept quests and so on because of that bug.
When I die, I respawn on that platform in the centre. Why is that there, why do I respawn there and potentially very far away from what I actually wanted to do, and why is the respawn timer so frelling long? Also, the portal was sometimes non-interactable.

"How do you like the new Patrons?"

I liked them quite a lot. I'm not sure about the account-wide pledge - that may lead to one faction dominating the Night Market every single time it is up, if a dynamic develops in the first few days. (Currently, 1000Eyes has more than double the points than any other faction. If I went in for the first time now, I would of course join that faction, leading to a kind of snowball effect.) That remains to be seen but I think it'd be good to keep open about a change there if the competition never becomes one.

"Do you have any other general feedback?"

If keys are really character-bound (couldn't test that myself, if not true, then disregard), then that's a terrible idea.
Players want to be flexible in a group. Population is low and groups often don't fill. Real life means someone has to drop out on short notice. So many players can and will switch on short notice.
If they first have to go through a tedious key farm just because one of the healers didn't show up, that's (sorry) exceptionally **** idea.

Respawning should work like everywhere else. I don't understand the benefit of the current system, other than making the zone more tedious and frustrating.

coop500 · 1:57PM

Varana wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Currently, one side is trying to shut out and silence the other with insults, accusations and manipulation towards the devs as to why our feedback isn't as valuable.

That's my impression as well, though probably the other way around than you meant.

To make things more clear from where I come from:
This will be the only dungeon-like content for the entire year.
There will be lots and lots of solo and quest content.
But for dungeon groups, this is it. Nothing else.

And even that only for a limited time.
Which is, frankly speaking, scandalous, and a truly horrible design approach that should generate more outrage.
Time-gating content is bad, period.

And because they decided to not have variable difficulty, we get this awkward in-between that's neither completely right nor wrong for almost anyone.
But because this is the "dungeon" content for this year, players who like dungeon content would probably like to have at least a bit of a challenge, and that the difficulty not be turned down too much.
Because again, there will be lots of other stuff, that will be there forever.
---

As for the feedback questions:

"How have you found the difficulty of the Night Market?"

Went in yesterday with basically a DK tank, with some adaptations. Survival was fine, and I could dragonbreathe down trash packs consistently, even though it was a bit slow.
Briefly grouped with another player for the Brazen Crow boss but had to disband because of time. Main issue were the adds, and with a full four-man group, they should die quickly enough.

"How do you feel about the distribution of rewards during this event zone?"

Didn't get a lot. A blue Mother's Sorrow robe, I think, from the "kill 25 enemies" daily. Shall I really tell you how I feel about that? ;D

"How did you enjoy the Event Zone?"

Quite ... confusing.
The UI is unhelpful and shows too much unnecessary information (faction score? why?) and too little information (what is a Skirmish, and why is it inactive? why is it under "Scoreboard"? how to get the keys for higher-tier bosses? etc.). Honestly, that needs a complete overhaul from the ground up.
The overworld entrance is well hidden and not reflected on the map at all.
The quest didn't work (see my post in the bug thread, and I also sent it in-game).
Couldn't accept quests and so on because of that bug.
When I die, I respawn on that platform in the centre. Why is that there, why do I respawn there and potentially very far away from what I actually wanted to do, and why is the respawn timer so frelling long? Also, the portal was sometimes non-interactable.

"How do you like the new Patrons?"

I liked them quite a lot. I'm not sure about the account-wide pledge - that may lead to one faction dominating the Night Market every single time it is up, if a dynamic develops in the first few days. (Currently, 1000Eyes has more than double the points than any other faction. If I went in for the first time now, I would of course join that faction, leading to a kind of snowball effect.) That remains to be seen but I think it'd be good to keep open about a change there if the competition never becomes one.

"Do you have any other general feedback?"

If keys are really character-bound (couldn't test that myself, if not true, then disregard), then that's a terrible idea.
Players want to be flexible in a group. Population is low and groups often don't fill. Real life means someone has to drop out on short notice. So many players can and will switch on short notice.
If they first have to go through a tedious key farm just because one of the healers didn't show up, that's (sorry) exceptionally **** idea.

Respawning should work like everywhere else. I don't understand the benefit of the current system, other than making the zone more tedious and frustrating.

For context, a lot of more aggressive and mean posts were deleted, which is hiding my proof of WHY I'm saying that we (those who believe it's too hard) are being bullied and forced out just because we are not deemed 'worthy' by other people.

However I do agree that it's crazy we're not getting anymore dungeons, I'm surprised more people aren't raising hell about that. I would also be fine with the Night Market's difficulty if it wasn't timed. Currently, there are three gates to it.

Timed
Grindy
Difficult.

Content should never have all three in my opinion, and this does. If it wasn't timed, it can be hard so people can work up to it in their own time. But instead, the game is going to yoink it away for six months at a time or whatever (someone on here told me it comes back in the winter again.)

Enemoriana · 2:45PM

Varana wrote: »

That's my impression as well, though probably the other way around than you meant.

To make things more clear from where I come from:
This will be the only dungeon-like content for the entire year.
There will be lots and lots of solo and quest content.
But for dungeon groups, this is it. Nothing else.

And even that only for a limited time.
Which is, frankly speaking, scandalous, and a truly horrible design approach that should generate more outrage.
Time-gating content is bad, period.

And because they decided to not have variable difficulty, we get this awkward in-between that's neither completely right nor wrong for almost anyone.
But because this is the "dungeon" content for this year, players who like dungeon content would probably like to have at least a bit of a challenge, and that the difficulty not be turned down too much.
Because again, there will be lots of other stuff, that will be there forever.

Aren't gold and platinum bosses designed more dungeon-like?
With how it is designed, it looks like "open zone for everybody, gold and platinum for those who wants hard vet content". Doesn't harder part fulfill their role too?

Soarora · 3:19PM

Enemoriana wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

That's my impression as well, though probably the other way around than you meant.

To make things more clear from where I come from:
This will be the only dungeon-like content for the entire year.
There will be lots and lots of solo and quest content.
But for dungeon groups, this is it. Nothing else.

And even that only for a limited time.
Which is, frankly speaking, scandalous, and a truly horrible design approach that should generate more outrage.
Time-gating content is bad, period.

And because they decided to not have variable difficulty, we get this awkward in-between that's neither completely right nor wrong for almost anyone.
But because this is the "dungeon" content for this year, players who like dungeon content would probably like to have at least a bit of a challenge, and that the difficulty not be turned down too much.
Because again, there will be lots of other stuff, that will be there forever.

Aren't gold and platinum bosses designed more dungeon-like?
With how it is designed, it looks like "open zone for everybody, gold and platinum for those who wants hard vet content". Doesn't harder part fulfill their role too?

The glittering bosses are dungeon bosses but there’s no hard mode, no trifecta, they’re only one boss per instance (as opposed to 3 + trash + side bosses), and I’m not sure on difficulty. You also have to do the overland portion every time you want to do the dungeon instance. I will note that I noticed one of the Argent (silver) bosses does their hard mode mechanics from the dungeon they were introduced in.

The opulent are a mini trial (akin to cloudrest or asylum sanctorium), no hard mode, no trifecta, and people have said it’s not very hard (but it does seem to be fun so there’s that). Not all dungeon players do trials.

Faulgor · 3:25PM

I'm not sure if this has been reported yet, but there is a MAJOR BUG:

When you log out in a Night Market Zone other than the Plaza, e.g. The Parch, you cannot leave the NIght Market: The exit portal in the plaza will always teleport you back to (in my example) The Parch safe zone. I could only leave the Night Market by teleporting to my house through the collectible list (group or guild porting probably work too), because there's also the minor bug that the world map seems inaccessible via the gamepad UI while in the Night Market.

Hope this gets fixed before release.

Enemoriana · 3:31PM

Soarora wrote: »

Enemoriana wrote: »

Varana wrote: »

That's my impression as well, though probably the other way around than you meant.

To make things more clear from where I come from:
This will be the only dungeon-like content for the entire year.
There will be lots and lots of solo and quest content.
But for dungeon groups, this is it. Nothing else.

And even that only for a limited time.
Which is, frankly speaking, scandalous, and a truly horrible design approach that should generate more outrage.
Time-gating content is bad, period.

And because they decided to not have variable difficulty, we get this awkward in-between that's neither completely right nor wrong for almost anyone.
But because this is the "dungeon" content for this year, players who like dungeon content would probably like to have at least a bit of a challenge, and that the difficulty not be turned down too much.
Because again, there will be lots of other stuff, that will be there forever.

Aren't gold and platinum bosses designed more dungeon-like?
With how it is designed, it looks like "open zone for everybody, gold and platinum for those who wants hard vet content". Doesn't harder part fulfill their role too?

The glittering bosses are dungeon bosses but there’s no hard mode, no trifecta, they’re only one boss per instance (as opposed to 3 + trash + side bosses), and I’m not sure on difficulty. You also have to do the overland portion every time you want to do the dungeon instance. I will note that I noticed one of the Argent (silver) bosses does their hard mode mechanics from the dungeon they were introduced in.

The opulent are a mini trial (akin to cloudrest or asylum sanctorium), no hard mode, no trifecta, and people have said it’s not very hard (but it does seem to be fun so there’s that). Not all dungeon players do trials.

Sounds like they should make supposed-to-be-easy part (mobs) more easy and supposed-to-be-hard (gold and platinum) more hard to make everybody happy. So weaker players playing alone or/and not in primetime can do at least some activities, grind feel less annoying, and players who want hard content - have something to fight.

Arthtur · 4:21PM

So i spend some time in Night Market. I dont think its that hard. Its mostly balance issue. I mean..

I walk in, start a fight with a trash group and die in 3s. I try again and i last longer but i still die. What i see in recap?
3 instances of Bleed, each 6 ticks with 7k dmg. Thats almost 3.5k damage per second. Kinda a lot. I adapted and i didnt have a problem with that anymore. Except when all my passives bugged out and stopped working but whatever.
But that's me. How less skilled players are supposed to deal with that when their class skills heal 800 - 1500 hp every 2s?
Not only the self heals (DoTs) are on average weaker but they also tick less often so you need like 2 or 3 of them to just outheal 1 DoT from a trash mob. And thats just DoTs. While DoTs from boss easly hit for 6k...
Like CMX told me i was taking 10k dmg per second. So i only need 10 dots to heal myself? Or just spam burst heal/shield i guess.
And thats the thing. If you compare defensive options of Pale Order Ring or Fatecarver to other options... the other options are hot garbage. Like my vigor is healing me 6.4k on crit. Crazy. Or i can slot some channeled aoe skill, Pale Order, healing cp and do 100k dps on trash and im healed 21k each second, and thats a low number as you can easly do 50k/s per target with beam. I think thats enough of an example.

I could also do the same examples for AoE skills. Channeled aoe skills are vastly superior to other aoe options.

Now, do not get me wrong. I like the current difficulty. In some cases i think it could be even harder as with good group it wont rly be hard. I like that i need to get build for this. I love the fact we are getting harder zone.
I hate that everything is hot garbage compared to best options there are. Im not expecting some amazing balancing but when best defensive options outperform other options over 5 times then i dont know what i can say.
So yeah thats my issue. That all my theorycrafting tells me to slot Pale Order.

I will enjoy the content. But im pretty sure more players will be able to enjoy it too if we get some better aoe and defensive options that arent Channelled aoe attacks and Pale Order Ring.

Im kinda worried about Favour being to grindy but i dont know how much i will get playing with my friends. But it can be adjusted on live so i dont think thats a big problem.

Visually im happy. Style pages are nice too. A little dissapointed in dyes. Still waiting for Dark Red/Green that isnt mostly black.

And i hope you wont forget about this content like you did with Scribing and IA.

coop500 · 4:31PM

Arthtur wrote: »

So i spend some time in Night Market. I dont think its that hard. Its mostly balance issue. I mean..

I walk in, start a fight with a trash group and die in 3s. I try again and i last longer but i still die. What i see in recap?
3 instances of Bleed, each 6 ticks with 7k dmg. Thats almost 3.5k damage per second. Kinda a lot. I adapted and i didnt have a problem with that anymore. Except when all my passives bugged out and stopped working but whatever.
But that's me. How less skilled players are supposed to deal with that when their class skills heal 800 - 1500 hp every 2s?
Not only the self heals (DoTs) are on average weaker but they also tick less often so you need like 2 or 3 of them to just outheal 1 DoT from a trash mob. And thats just DoTs. While DoTs from boss easly hit for 6k...
Like CMX told me i was taking 10k dmg per second. So i only need 10 dots to heal myself? Or just spam burst heal/shield i guess.
And thats the thing. If you compare defensive options of Pale Order Ring or Fatecarver to other options... the other options are hot garbage. Like my vigor is healing me 6.4k on crit. Crazy. Or i can slot some channeled aoe skill, Pale Order, healing cp and do 100k dps on trash and im healed 21k each second, and thats a low number as you can easly do 50k/s per target with beam. I think thats enough of an example.

I could also do the same examples for AoE skills. Channeled aoe skills are vastly superior to other aoe options.

Now, do not get me wrong. I like the current difficulty. In some cases i think it could be even harder as with good group it wont rly be hard. I like that i need to get build for this. I love the fact we are getting harder zone.
I hate that everything is hot garbage compared to best options there are. Im not expecting some amazing balancing but when best defensive options outperform other options over 5 times then i dont know what i can say.
So yeah thats my issue. That all my theorycrafting tells me to slot Pale Order.

I will enjoy the content. But im pretty sure more players will be able to enjoy it too if we get some better aoe and defensive options that arent Channelled aoe attacks and Pale Order Ring.

Im kinda worried about Favour being to grindy but i dont know how much i will get playing with my friends. But it can be adjusted on live so i dont think thats a big problem.

Visually im happy. Style pages are nice too. A little dissapointed in dyes. Still waiting for Dark Red/Green that isnt mostly black.

And i hope you wont forget about this content like you did with Scribing and IA.

This is all a very good point, and partly why I'm frustrated. Yes, if you have Pale Order or one of the other solo metal options, it's fine. But if you dare run anything else, you get curbstomped. You can't go in there without one of those meta options, and Pale Order defo seems to be the true way to go overall and still have SOME build flexibility. Though it's weird because then you're not really able to easily group with randoms anymore in the group content so... yeah lol.

If the class refreshes give players more options to play strongly instead of shoehorning everyone into the same setup, then this difficulty could be fine. It's just rough with the game's current balance of 70% of skills being dogwater that only the most casual or the most uninformed would use.

code65536 · 9:10PM

An assortment of miscellaneous things:

Please add door icons to the "main" map, marking the three entrances to the three districts.

- "Hey, if you want to join me, I'm currently in Skittering."
- "Uh, which door is that?" ... Proceeds to run around in a circle, visiting each door, until I get one that says Skittering Precinct in the interaction UI.

It would be far better if the doors were marked on the map, so I could just mouse over each door until I find the one that I want.

I kinda mentioned off-hand in one of my previous posts that Pale Order stopped working for me, and that I needed to un-equip and re-equip to get it working, until it stops working again. I then noticed that there were a number of other people saying the same thing, so hopefully this is something that's being investigated? Not sure if this is a problem specific to Pale Order or if other sets or effects are affected as well; Pale Order is just very noticeable given how much of a difference it can potentially make.

I'm not a fan of how people need to manually enter the Gilded instances. You can't travel to player or port in directly. My guess is that forcing manual entry makes it easier for you to enforce key and relic requirements?

It also doesn't help that the icon for the Gilded instances don't appear on the district map until you get closer. I feel like that the icon should be visible at all times, regardless of where you are in the district. (Yes, we got lost at one point.)

I joked that we spent more time entering the instance than we did clearing it, which is in part because of how easy they are. The mechanics are all instantly recognizable, the incoming damage is mild, and there really wasn't a challenge. Yea, I get that this is one-size-fits-all and you need to appeal to the mainstream. But as it stands, for me personally, the Gilded bosses feel like a bunch of checkboxes to tick off on the way to Opulent.

For Opulent, I think it would be useful to show the position of the balls on the map. You already have the artwork for this: the Arcane Knot. It'd be great if you did something similar to what you did with making the Arcane Knot appear on the map. With the Arcane Knot, since everyone stays with the knot, having it show on the map wasn't that useful, but with multiple separate groups, I feel like a map icon here would be kinda useful.

EDIT: One more thing that I forgot! The area immediately outside the door of the Sorrow dungeon needs to be free of darkness. Because when someone exits the dungeon, they do not immediately have a light. Sure, there is a light pod nearby, and they need that to make their way back to the rest of the district. But if they get a bit of a long load screen, then they're dead before they could even interact with that light pod. So you need a small sliver of safe space right at the door.