What do you think about the new Vestige difficulty mode rewards?

coop500 · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I think the rewards is not really the point as it's a very flawed early draft of a system that isn't even coming to the PTS for a few months.

LunaFlora · January 23

the reward should be the different difficulty.

Destai · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I thought a lot about this: I don't want it to be rewarding.

I'm at a point as a gamer where challenge isn't appealing to me. If this system took rewards from otherwise accessible activities, I'd be pretty bummed. It's like mounts only being attainable in Veteran Hard Mode dungeons. Yes, people who do difficult things should get a trophy. I do believe that. But overall, I would like to see more accessible rewards for the casuals like myself. As such, I'm ok with this being a gold and XP modifier essentially. That's based on the assumption that challenge is its own reward.

As someone who's lovingly played many Dark Souls games, I can appreciate why people want the challenge for its own sake. That challenge existed in a vacuum though. You didn't have multiple other players, it was you and 2 others tops. We won't have that here. So, I think this system will not land well because of the very nature of why challenging content is attractive. If they separated people by difficulty levels, I'd be more willing to participate and champion more rewards.

AScarlato · January 23

LunaFlora wrote: »

the reward should be the different difficulty.

This reason. It looks good to me as a place to start.

I saw some posters thinking the difficulty should change the overland content into group content, which is not the problem they are addressing with the change. It's addressing how boring many of us felt playing the Main Story and overland quests

Hopefully the main villains will be able to finish a sentence of dialogue before dying.

Varana · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

Last'One wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Last'One wrote: »

JiubLeRepenti wrote: »

What do you think about the new Vestige difficulty mode rewards?

Honestly, I didn’t even bother reading about the rewards. I simply uninstalled the game as soon as I read this:
Vestige
This will be the most difficult option at launch. You will take 600% more damage from monsters and will deal 80% less damage.

I really love the HA build. It used to be simple and powerful, but now it’s completely trash. And… difficulty for ZOS is just… nerfing my damage after already nerfing the build???? OMFG!!!!

Yeah. Uninstalling the game was the best solution. Simple.

But... you don't need to play on that mode?

I'm not going to go for any of the difficulty modes. I'm not here for stories (and the faceroll combat was not the thing holding the stories back, after all Dragon Age the Veilguard has a high-difficulty mode and that didn't save it), and I actually prefer to level slowly in the first place. And if I want an immersive RPG experience, I'll go play an RPG with good writing and no hey-we-brought-this-irritating-character-back-because-they're-such-a-fan-favorite-but-we-also-removed-everything-about-their-personality-except-for-the-single-overdone-joke characters that I can get lost in.

The difficulty being the way it is completely allows me to do any overland stuff in my for-fun two-whole-heavy-sets tank-CP 64-points-in-health character. I really would hate if I have to keep swapping between something that's sweaty and something that I enjoy playing. Besides, trying to struggle with a wolf for 5 minutes to pick one flower sounds completely unfun.

Seasoned Deal 20% less damage.
Master Deal 50% less damage.
Vestige Deal 80% less damage.

From my point of view… why does ZeniMax nerf my DPS after already nerfing the build?! Is this what they call "Challenge Difficulty"??

So if we ask for some kind of Hard Mode Hell Difficulty, what will they do next? - "You will take 2000% more damage from monsters and deal 99% less damage."

If I want to deal less damage, I’ll just remove my weapons. My sets. Everything. Bro, I’m so angry and so disappointed with ZeniMax that I don’t even want to argue anymore.

[snip]

You do realise that you don't have to choose any of the modes that you listed? That you can stay exactly how you are now? That you can simply play at normal difficulty and no one takes anything away?

---

I#m not sure why the system would need more tangible rewards to make players choose higher difficulties.
Why should players do that? What would be the benefit for ZOS?

Why should they specifically entice players into choosing higher difficulty levels unless they want that difficulty for its own sake?

That was the gist of many of the discussions around overland difficulty: Players want it because the quests feel meaningless and stupid when hyped-up enemy bosses die before they could say "hello". For that purpose, higher difficulty is its own reward.

Now, they did implement this in the most basic and boring way.
I understand why. By just applying buffs and debuffs on an individual level, people can still play in the same instance against the same mobs. And once implemented, the system needs not much upkeep, which is a good thing if it's not very extensively used. Still, it's a bit boring.
[edited for baiting]

Mesite · January 23

I'm not an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I've played for years so I don't need any more gold or xp. I won't be changing the difficulty, just playing on normal difficulty (adventurer) but would feel obliged to play on a harder difficulty if the rewards were any better (FOMO) which could ruin my care-free playthroughs.

Finedaible · January 23

ZoS is trying at least, which is far better than ignoring it.

Personally I feel like this +%dmg received and -%dmg dealt modifier for minor gold and XP is not gonna be worth implementing. That's basically how Skyrim's difficulty slider functions, but then who farms gold from killing mobs anyway? Extra xp can be nice at times, but if TTK goes up as a result it could become kind of irrelevant.

Perhaps if the difficulty increased the chance at other drops like hides and other resources and/or higher quality gear then I could see a hard-mode being more worthwhile.

ChaoticWings3 · January 23

AScarlato wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

the reward should be the different difficulty.

This reason. It looks good to me as a place to start.

I saw some posters thinking the difficulty should change the overland content into group content, which is not the problem they are addressing with the change. It's addressing how boring many of us felt playing the Main Story and overland quests

Hopefully the main villains will be able to finish a sentence of dialogue before dying.

Pretty much the main reason why I will enjoy it. I had to purposely slow down on even light attacking in order for the boss to survive like 3 more seconds to hear their voice dialogue. I really shouldn't have to do this for a quest's BBG that should be extremely powerful. Practically felt I was playing Dynasty Warriors sometimes. At least now I can adjust the difficulty to a point where I can enjoy the fights.

Fischblut · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

At first some players were asking for difficult overland just for the challenge and to enjoy their quests.
Now players see possibility of extra rewards, and there is already some demand for more rewards at High Difficulty...

And this part of the news article reveals possibility of more and more extra rewards tied to Highest Difficulty:

That said, we are building Challenge Difficulty to be expandable in the future and layer with other existing systems to help reward players for taking on the challenge. For example, we could have Golden Pursuits with Challenge Difficulty-specific pursuits. If you complete those, you could get a specific tiered reward for your efforts. Expanding the rewards for Challenge Difficulty will be an ongoing discussion after launch, but we want to make sure you know why we are starting with experience and gold.

Meanwhile, people who were never against a difficulty option for those other people, and who are fine with their easy overland (and who would be forced to participate in new Difficulty as well, as soon as Pursuit has some task like "Kill 10 World Bosses at Vestige Difficulty to unlock an epic-looking outfit style) read all this like:

Can I technically complete just 1 such Pursuit? Yes, it will be very unpleasant and stressful, and I will need to find a group for that.
Can I complete 2 such Pursuits? And then they might just keep coming, because people want cosmetics...

I hope it's not true and will not go this far ever

I like to have my own choice of different tasks and still get all Pursuit rewards, please.

coop500 · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

Fischblut wrote: »

At first some players were asking for difficult overland just for the challenge and to enjoy their quests.
Now players see possibility of extra rewards, and there is already some demand for more rewards at High Difficulty...

And this part of the news article reveals possibility of more and more extra rewards tied to Highest Difficulty:

That said, we are building Challenge Difficulty to be expandable in the future and layer with other existing systems to help reward players for taking on the challenge. For example, we could have Golden Pursuits with Challenge Difficulty-specific pursuits. If you complete those, you could get a specific tiered reward for your efforts. Expanding the rewards for Challenge Difficulty will be an ongoing discussion after launch, but we want to make sure you know why we are starting with experience and gold.

Meanwhile, people who were never against a difficulty option for those other people, and who are fine with their easy overland (and who would be forced to participate in new Difficulty as well, as soon as Pursuit has some task like "Kill 10 World Bosses at Vestige Difficulty to unlock an epic-looking outfit style) read all this like:

Can I technically complete just 1 such Pursuit? Yes, it will be very unpleasant and stressful, and I will need to find a group for that.
Can I complete 2 such Pursuits? And then they might just keep coming, because people want cosmetics...

I hope it's not true and will not go this far ever I like to have my own choice of different tasks and still get all Pursuit rewards, please.

Yeah I'm a little worried about all this pushing for rewards. I CAN probably do it, but I don't want to, and don't like the idea of fancy goodies locked behind a slogfest.

Melivar · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

People wanted more challenge and that's what's been offered.

If the reward structure is to great, then it's just a mandatory thing that is required to get those rewards and over and over again in the million-page thread that's not what was asked for it was simply more challenge.

You either wanted the challenge which is what they have offered with some additional benefits, or you wanted access to better loot because you're a so-called better player.

I look forward to trying out the different modes and am very curious how I will fare in the vestige mode.

fall0athboy · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I'm glad that all that it is is extra XP and gold. The entire point of it was for the challenge with story bosses. I fully disagree with the idea extra rewards should be involved.

Last'One · January 23

https://youtube.com/shorts/5AZNj_hecOY

Yep. This is how they solve the problems in ESO.

Muizer · January 23

I agree with a small compensation in gold and xp to compensate players for going through content slower, but that's it. The whole reason why people want harder overland is to make questing more engaging. If ZOS needs to lean on FOMO to convince people to take part in it they have already failed that primary goal. And for this feature, I really don't want them to.

Tyrobag · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

The difficulty tiers are being added because people complain about overland being too easy, not to create reward tiers for elitists (which defeats the point of overland). There should absolutely not be any type of "hard" reward. Nothing that is only obtainable in this mode, nor increased drops for sets, styles, fragments, or leads. Increasing the XP is obvious, and increasing gold and things like higher quality gear drops is perfectly reasonable. Anything further than that and your pushing the bounds of calling it "optional".

Tannus15 · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I don't care about the rewards honestly. I just want the game to have actual gameplay.

BlueRaven · January 23

I am just here feeling as if the game and I want different things.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I don’t want it to be required to get fun stuff. Turning normal mobs into bullet sponges will make most activities more tedious and I would prefer not to feel pressured to engage with it.

valenwood_vegan · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

Personally, I see myself only using increased difficulty while questing, because the quests and quest bosses have become so easy over time that it's not even engaging anymore.

The difficulty itself and the increased immersion and engagement in the stories would be my reward, and I certainly don't think there should be all these special rewards for using increased difficulty mode. XP, gold, maybe higher quality gear drops.. sure.

Maybe some achievements and a title for those who want to seek them, but people definitely should not be made to feel that challenge mode is anything more than an option.

There is already challenging content that provides unique rewards.

I don't see the need to flex that I spent 5 minutes defeating a super-mudcrab just to get to a survey location, nor does that really sound like something I'd enjoy.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · January 23

They give you only 2x as much XP for killing mobs that take 5x longer to kill, in the time you kill that boss someone on normal difficulty could of killed multiple enemies and gain several times as much XP as you.

I do not need these difficulties at all, I want to feel overpowered you like the Last Dragonborn, or the Nerevarine I don't want to struggle against a Skeever after defeating the Daedric Prince Ithelia, if I want hard content I will do Hard Mode Dungeons.

Enemoriana · January 23

It was always "overland is too easy, it is boring!" before.
Why now it is "there's not enough rewards"? Or was it never about "boring", only "we must have much more rewards than those noobs to show them how weak and miserable they are"?

Not sure what level I would use, but definetely not for extra rewards, only for adjusting difficulty to comfortable (quest bosses, please, don't die in the middle of you-can't-defeat-me replica).

Frayton · January 23

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

I have a feeling history will repeat itself and the most difficult modes will be unplayed despite very vocal players claiming they want it, and they'll claim they can't enjoy it bc ZOS didn't implement it properly.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 24

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

I don't see the point of a inconsistent reward structure for veteran-level content. In every other activity in the game, veteran content drops purple and gold-tier equipment. This is unnecessarily confusing and a incredibly arbitrary line drawn in the sand by the community and I have absolutely no idea why.

Veteran dungeons exist and they have exclusive, better rewards.
Veteran trials exist and they have exclusive, better rewards.
Veteran arenas exist and they have exclusive, better rewards.
Why shouldn't overland?

LunaFlora wrote: »

the reward should be the different difficulty.

That's not how veteran dungeons, arenas and trials work. What makes overland different?

Frankly I don't care much about rewards and I'll enable it and never turn it off just like I did in The Lord of the Rings Online/Warframe, but a game's reward structure should be consistent so you don't create a "wiki game" because the game's breaking its own rules.

spartaxoxo · January 24

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

I do agree that blue/green gear should become blue/purple gear, if only for the sake of consistency. I'm not too worried about the rewards personally as the main thing is covered already with exp/coin. But I really don't see the harm in the gear upgrade state being made consistent with the rest of the game.

LunaFlora · January 24

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

I don't see the point of a inconsistent reward structure for veteran-level content. In every other activity in the game, veteran content drops purple and gold-tier equipment. This is unnecessarily confusing and a incredibly arbitrary line drawn in the sand by the community and I have absolutely no idea why.

Veteran dungeons exist and they have exclusive, better rewards.
Veteran trials exist and they have exclusive, better rewards.
Veteran arenas exist and they have exclusive, better rewards.
Why shouldn't overland?

LunaFlora wrote: »

the reward should be the different difficulty.

That's not how veteran dungeons, arenas and trials work. What makes overland different?

Frankly I don't care much about rewards and I'll enable it and never turn it off just like I did in The Lord of the Rings Online/Warframe, but a game's reward structure should be consistent so you don't create a "wiki game" because the game's breaking its own rules.

higher equipment quality is fine, like Veteran dungeons, arenas, and trials. Thougg overland item set quality is often random already.
But why anything else?

i think more rewards for overland overall would be much better.
For example, a weapon style of the Rootmender staff would be an appropriate reward for completing Murkmire's zone story, regardless of difficulty.

if Overland's higher difficulties did not reduce our damage i guess i would not be opposed to a few exclusive rewards.
But the way it will be is not comparable to Dungeons, Arenas, and Trials. Veteran mode does not reduce our damage.

should the extra difficulty not be rewarding enough for the story quest fights in overland?

Jestir · January 24

I'm an endgame PvE player and I want better rewards for Vestige mode

They could do a small amount of cosmetic rewards for doing basic gameplay stuff in a higher difficulty

Toanis · January 24

Before we talk about rewards let's have a look at what will happen when different difficulty settings are fighting together:

Those Vestiges who are mainly in for the rewards will end up following an Adventurer, spamming their puny attacks and heals, and getting more XP than the guy who does all the work. At best it will be an organized leveling group rotating difficulties, but that might actually cause an exploitation ban wave and get the difficulty system scrapped.

And for those for whom the difficulty is its own reward: How long will you enjoy the hard content, using advanced battle tactics in a public dungeon, before a clueless Adventurer jumps in and nukes the room in seconds?

A bragging rights function like a mark that counts your kills done solo vs assisted by a lower difficulty will also suffer from "griefing" by "helpful" new players.

So no, no rewards at all. Either you want a higher difficulty or you don't. Actually, it shouldn't be done at all when they don't have the player numbers or can't afford the server cost for separate maps per difficulty. Mixing will do more harm than good.

Anumaril · January 24

I'm an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

Something as simple as XP or gold is unexciting enough that the average player who is not interested in the difficulty challenge can just ignore it, and honestly even as an endgame player I'm always short on gold (I blame furnishings costing a fortune). But the moment you add exclusive rewards to the mix that changes everything. People want collectibles, gear, motifs, etc., but don't want to be forced to do something they find deeply unenjoyable. This was one of the main arguments people used against this overland option to begin with. Their main arguments were: (1) don't universally increase difficulty, keep it optional; (2) don't let it split the playerbase by instancing it; and (3) don't attach exclusive rewards which effectively force people to use it who don't want to. We should probably be respectful of those pretty reasonable requests.

That being said, now that I'm writing this it does occur to me that there are plenty of other aspects of the game which are equally "forced", yet are not held to this standard. E.g., I really dislike grinding Tel Var stones in the Imperial City. Its long, stressful, and you almost always end up getting ganked and losing what you spent ages gathering. But I force myself to do it because I'm after certain rewards. The same can be said of a PvP player forcing themselves to do trials or dungeons because they want a particular cosmetic. It seems pretty common for games to force their players to do things outside their comfort zone for the sake of rewards. So if this standard were applied universally, we'd have to drop rewards for ALL activities so that no one is incentivised to potentially do something they may or may not enjoy.

All sides considered, I'd err on the side of keeping rewards "unexciting" just to avoid pissing off more of the playerbase. But it's also fair to say that if such a system had existed in ESO since launch (and thus considered a regular part of the game), no one would bat an eye if it had exclusive rewards.

bmnoble · January 24

I'm not an endgame PvE player and I don't want better rewards for Vestige mode, extra XP and gold is fine by me

It isn't suppose to be for you to go out and grind mobs for XP or gold drops, it is an attempt to make questing more engaging for those that found the default difficulty boring.

Your reward is the increased challenge the higher difficulty options provide.

Max difficulty should not be something that players feel they need to do for rewards.

Taggund · January 24

Quite simple. There should not be any difference in rewards for level of difficulty chosen.