ZOS_Finn wrote: »

- Population Cap: The current cap per instance of Night Market is roughly 36 players. That number is a bit fluid based on how we manage population caps but thats about the target we are shooting for.

For clarification: Is this a cap of 36 across the ENTIRE Night Market (plaza + districts) as one instance? or is each district + the plaza its own seperate instance with a cap of 36?

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Rewards

- We have seen the feedback regarding loot and are taking a hard look at the rewards so that you feel your time is valued.

Just wanted to voice the concerns of my community over the information of trade bars from the PTS. A lot of members will have very little time to log on just to do the single task to gain the tickets from the events. They don't have time to constantly grind to earn the 300 bars to equal the 3 tickets they would get from completely a single logging on task.

Hopefully when this goes live they will still be able to earn the 200-300 bars from logging in and doing an event task then if they have time, grinding for the 3 bars that is shown to drop

shadoza wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

The big take-away here is this zone is going to remind people that other roles then just dps exist and should be treated with respect. Massive win. More incentives for people to learn to play tank and healer.

And if the people do not want to play tank or healer?
Are you suggesting that herding players into an otherwise undesired place is a good thing? Not a win at all in my PoV.

And I don't see the necessity to tune this to normal solo players.
They don't do that with dungeons either.
Those pretty much require a group - or to be really, really good at soloing.
Not all content is for everyone.

And reading the last patch notes about lowering the difficulty of Solstice's last story boss made me wary of demands for lowering the difficulty.

shadoza wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

The big take-away here is this zone is going to remind people that other roles then just dps exist and should be treated with respect. Massive win. More incentives for people to learn to play tank and healer.

And if the people do not want to play tank or healer?
Are you suggesting that herding players into an otherwise undesired place is a good thing? Not a win at all in my PoV.

Make friends with tanks and healers. If people are naturally incentivized to play non-dps roles, you will just naturally encounter them in the zone without needing to even ask or group them, and you can be completely solo to boot.

Varana wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

The big take-away here is this zone is going to remind people that other roles then just dps exist and should be treated with respect. Massive win. More incentives for people to learn to play tank and healer.

And if the people do not want to play tank or healer?
Are you suggesting that herding players into an otherwise undesired place is a good thing? Not a win at all in my PoV.

And I don't see the necessity to tune this to normal solo players.
They don't do that with dungeons either.
Those pretty much require a group - or to be really, really good at soloing.
Not all content is for everyone.

And reading the last patch notes about lowering the difficulty of Solstice's last story boss made me wary of demands for lowering the difficulty.

Except they LITERALLY SAID in the livestream reveal that it's meant for "experienced players" and groups but also designed to be ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYONE. So that kind of shoots down the tired and overused "not all content is for everyone" argument.

They can literally lower the HP trash mobs have and the damage they do to be more in line with DLC dungeon stuff, before they got made easier. They can 1000% make it less difficult without gutting the difficulty entirely. Like I said make it more like how pre-nerf Craglorn used to be, when you got to a certain level (both in terms of gear/rotation and skill/experience) you could go in solo even though it was difficult to do and you could still get folded by a pack of three Wasps if you weren't careful. But the way it is now is too difficult for average people, which when they said in the livestream it was supposed to be made for EVERYOBE to asscess it, isn't really a great look.

Also, to touch on the point about "this is the PTS and the numbers here aren't like on live there will be floods of randos to run with", if the pop cap is 36 per instance, there's a very good chance you won't be running across others. Plus as others have said, what if you only have time to play outside peak hours for your region? Making it limited time just means people will rush the content so they get everything they want before the Market goes away for a while, and then for the rest of the time the people who didn't or couldn't rush will be like that meme from The Room of whathisname looking around.

It happened with Dragons, with Harrowstorms, and other incursions that have been added. Eventually people will finish the content and those left behind either struggle to find enough people to do them, or have to wait for events that might only happen every once a year, if then. And if nothing new is really added when the Night Market comes back, it would be less incentive for people to go back into it if they already got everything they wanted the first time. That's probably going to be less of a concern since I can't imagine them NOT adding more stuff every time it comes around, but still.

Lord_Hev wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

The big take-away here is this zone is going to remind people that other roles then just dps exist and should be treated with respect. Massive win. More incentives for people to learn to play tank and healer.

And if the people do not want to play tank or healer?
Are you suggesting that herding players into an otherwise undesired place is a good thing? Not a win at all in my PoV.

Make friends with tanks and healers. If people are naturally incentivized to play non-dps roles, you will just naturally encounter them in the zone without needing to even ask or group them, and you can be completely solo to boot.

How are people incentivized to play a role they don't normally want to, when solo DPS are having a hard time as it is? Tanks and Healers aren't typically known for being able to easily or quickly do content as they naturally tend to do less DPS than a dedicated DPS build. So if the only incentive for people who don't already like and play these roles is to have a more miserable time playing a build that can do less than their preferred role...who, again, is actually being "naturally incentivized" to play those roles?

Also "make friends with people of these roles so you can play with them and not need to do the role yourself" is the complete opposite of "if people are encouraged to play these roles you'll run into them at random and not even need to talk to people you know so you can play solo".

CyberDiva wrote: »

Here are a couple of thoughts for you after plowing through this thread thus far.

* Lower trash mob difficulty. Absolutely. It desperately needs it, especially with a cap of only 36 players who will more than likely all be on the other side of the instance when you walk in and nowhere near where you want to go if history repeats itself. This helps to prevent people from just throwing up their hands and saying, "Nope! Not going to bother" after dying to the same single trash mob twenty times in the span of five minutes within 200 feet of the door (This is just a slightly exaggerated example to make the point). This will make the "inexperienced player" happier. The chances of at least half of the people in the game having trial gear is probably not that high, and it certainly sounds like you are probably going to hurt a lot without it. Not many people are going to do trials just to get gear to do Night Market. Not going to happen.

* Keep boss difficulty as is. This will definitely keep the "experienced player" happy.

* Throw out your decision to not allow Challenge Difficulty in Night Market. Night Market clearly needs it.

* Re-add the ability to use Soul Gems on yourself. Trying to get back to the group that left you behind and does not care about you is not fun if you cannot survive even a single trash mob because you do not have "elite" gear and do not play "the meta."

This would be good, it feels like a happy medium between the two sides to me. Especially including Challenge Difficulty for those who somehow feel it could be harder.

And yes that's a reality check the devs need about groups. Very rarely do people give two fricks about the noob that died. You're just going to be left behind and separated from your group, and unable to fight your way back at the current power level of the trash mobs.

I'm in a guild with a "different" recruiting system and so we have a variety of players all the way from people who role-play in taverns to people who have a calendar of all the vHM trials they are doing this week.

When I posted in our discord about how hard the "overland" mobs are, there were a number of people who were pretty happy about it. Even though I get rinsed every on every pull as a mod-tier solo player, I'm also happy with the difficulty. It seems to be a reasonable overland for four player groups and I think that viewing as "overland for a four person group" is probably the right way to view it.

Why is it fairly straightforward even for a duo? It's overland, if you want complicated then enter the dungeons and the trial.
Why is it tedious for a duo to kill the bosses. It's designed for four people.
Why is it really quick for 12 people? They are on their way to the trial. Why slow them down?

Does anyone else find this a useful way of looking at it?

Ngā mihi,
Eurymachos

this what i love about having SUB accounts that are low CP i get to step away from what my MAIN ACCOUNT can or cant do and speak from an lower standardize set up and 100% id never bring my 684cp ACCOUNT into this without an GROUP being with ME and tho my sub 1115cp CAN handle itself so my 2932cp should do great , same level of knowledge on how to play the game so thats really an DEVS question to ASK themselves is this for the 684cp players or the 2932cp players !!!!!!!


speaking from that 684cp perspective THIS AINT FOR ME!!!!!!!!!

How do you feel about the distribution of rewards during this event zone?

I feel like the rewards were not consistent with the level of effort. Easier bosses dropped pretty much the same as the hard ones. I thought there were be something fantastic to gain by killing a big 26M health boss in the corner and was let down.

How have you found the difficulty of the Night Market? Please provide any additional context to the difficulty ratings below.

"Difficult" solo for trash mobs, "Too difficult" solo for bosses. As a group of ~6 players I think the difficulty was about right.

Did you play Night Market solo, with a random group, or an organized group (friends/guild members)?

I tried it solo, 5-6 player random group, and 1 friend. Obviously a team with comms will be the most ideal.

How did you enjoy the Event Zone? As this is a new event type, we would like to get any positives and negatives.

I like it conceptually. I loved the original inception of Craglorn. My only real complaint (besides the terrible rewards) is that there wasn't enough emphasis on story. With Craglorn there was a whole story line associated with it, with this it feels more like random mob grinding slaughter.

Did you try the different activities? If so, did you like them? Please let us know whatever you think worked and what missed the mark.

We tried the one where you burn spiders from brazers until a boss spawns. Unfortunately the players assembled weren't able to kill the boss that spawns and nobody had the patience to do the brazer thing again.

How do you like the new Patrons?

Character wise they were the most interesting part.

Did anything not function to your expectations?

The rewards. Primarily the "curated set piece" drops. If I wanted any of that stuff I would run the game content for it. I don't care enough about filling out my "sticker book" to be excited about any of it. I wish the rewards were a bit more epic, especially for killing the bosses.

Do you have any other general feedback?

Add more options in group finder to specify what you want to do with your group in the Night Market.

Arunei wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

The big take-away here is this zone is going to remind people that other roles then just dps exist and should be treated with respect. Massive win. More incentives for people to learn to play tank and healer.

And if the people do not want to play tank or healer?
Are you suggesting that herding players into an otherwise undesired place is a good thing? Not a win at all in my PoV.

Make friends with tanks and healers. If people are naturally incentivized to play non-dps roles, you will just naturally encounter them in the zone without needing to even ask or group them, and you can be completely solo to boot.

How are people incentivized to play a role they don't normally want to, when solo DPS are having a hard time as it is? Tanks and Healers aren't typically known for being able to easily or quickly do content as they naturally tend to do less DPS than a dedicated DPS build. So if the only incentive for people who don't already like and play these roles is to have a more miserable time playing a build that can do less than their preferred role...who, again, is actually being "naturally incentivized" to play those roles?

Also "make friends with people of these roles so you can play with them and not need to do the role yourself" is the complete opposite of "if people are encouraged to play these roles you'll run into them at random and not even need to talk to people you know so you can play solo".

A tank and healer is not hard locked into their role, we have armory station with 2 free slots, it takes about 5 seconds to change from a dps build to a tank build. Have you never interacted with this mechanic? If i quest or do solo stuff, i go dps, im with people who need tank? Armory to tank, voila... Dont want to play tank? Tough luck, for hard content ur gonna do what people have done in mmo's since they where invented, which is find one.

code65536 wrote: »

AzuraFan wrote: »

you could enter the zone and spontaneously group with other players (without actually grouping with them), sort of like when a bunch of players show up to do a dragon or a difficult WB.

You could definitely do that, and I expect that's what the vast majority of players will do.

AzuraFan wrote: »

But if you need certain roles to make it reasonably doable, that kind of flies in the face of that.

Why do you consider this to be contradictory? To use your example of the dragon, if you and three other random people are fighting a dragon, and none of you are tanks, there will almost certainly be a lot of deaths and a lot of rezzing. But if someone at the dragon is a tank, it'll be a much smoother, and easier experience.

Tanks have always made hard-hitting enemies easier.

Because people are reporting that they're being crushed by trash mobs fairly quickly, and found it easier with a tank. I don't agree about it being the same as dragons. A group of DDs can take on a dragon without dying at all.

Anyway, if you can spontaneously group with any roles and have a decent chance of doing the content without it being miserable, that's great. If not, I'll just ignore it.

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

prettyokayray wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

- Population Cap: The current cap per instance of Night Market is roughly 36 players. That number is a bit fluid based on how we manage population caps but thats about the target we are shooting for.

For clarification: Is this a cap of 36 across the ENTIRE Night Market (plaza + districts) as one instance? or is each district + the plaza its own seperate instance with a cap of 36?

The entire Night Market is one zone so this would be for Districts and Hub. Gilded bosses are 4-player instances and Opulent Ordeal is a 12-player instance.

Uhm, okay so that's actually insane to only have 36 players across the entire zone.

Yeah this is toast on arrival after the first week at best on live.