Skill Scrolls can NOT go live like this.

spartaxoxo · January 21

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Yes. Two of the Skill Scrolls are actually 20 second cooldowns. That part is not a bug.

To add to this, you always want to use the low cooldown items first:
Potion (45s) -> Skill Scroll (20s): 45 seconds of downtime between effects
Skill Scroll (20s) -> Potion (45s): 20 seconds of downtime between effects

In both cases, the total cooldown is the same (65s) but you have to plan how far apart you want your effects to be spaced.

Thanks! Good to know!

I want to elaborate a bit more on the limited nature of this now that I have this information. Because I think the solutions in this thread presented would create the problems that they're meant to solve. And it may not seem like it, but I too would like to avoid them becoming mandatory.

So let's look at it mathematically.

C_Inside wrote: »

Our Yolna fight took 3 minutes and 21 seconds, so ending the fight 2.6% sooner would mean 5 seconds less time on it. 5 seconds less means potentially 1 less Flare to kill someone and 1 less time stop.

Emeratis wrote: »

So yesterday I did about 5 hours of just running around and testing things in a disorganized manner. I got 6 scrolls total in that time.

I'll be working with this information, so it is far from official. But, I don't actually have the PTS nor data from ZOS to do better, so I'll have to work with what I got.

So let's say that a person is getting drops of 1.2 scrolls per hour. First we'll assume a moderate gamer who play about 10 hours per week based on this poll I found. So, they'll get 12 scrolls per week and there are about 7 weeks in the event, so 84 total skill scrolls. There are 3 skill scrolls and if we assume an equal chance of them dropping, then that means you'll have 28 of each of them.

Now let's say our plus ultra trial boss dps is using their 28 quick cloak scrolls on cooldown. And for the sake of making this easy, let's assume that they took 3 minutes and 16 seconds. This would mean you'd use up about 9 of your skill scrolls. Sunspire has 3 bosses. If they all took the same time, then you'd only have 1 scroll left when it was over, assuming you never died, wiped, or took longer than expected.

IDK about PvP usage. But for PvE usage, we're talking about having enough scrolls to shave off like 15 seconds for a single trial at their peak usage.

Now let's assume someone decides to no-life farm these across the entire 7 weeks. Then that would be 20 hours per week, which would be about 168 scrolls. Still not a stack. This would be about 56 of each scroll. Or 2 trials of our example scenario.

Doesn't sound particularly realistic to me. Making them tradeable would make it quick and easy to have massive stacks of these. And then they could be mandatory because you'd have a realistic way to accrue tons of them before the event ends. I would imagine that ZOS made these bound and limited time only precisely so they couldn't become mandatory as players aren't intended to be able to earn enough of them for it to be a realistic requirement for very long. But, obviously I'm not ZOS so I can't say for sure.

OFC, I don't know about potion usage in PVP where things are very different. So, I'll let PvPers decide if around 28-56 is enough quick cloak skill scrolls to be game breaking for a long time. My guess is it might be since you could be more conservative with them since you wouldn't be trying for 100% uptime but only in situations where stuff like immovable pots would be the inferior choice.

I had google do the math for me so if it's off, please do let me know.

eta

TLDR

If it's needed to be balanced, I hope they do so by messing with the CDS rather than removal as most people will only get like 28-56 of each scroll based off the player reported drop rate. But that information is based on players posting what they got rather than official drop rates. So take that for what it is.

albertberku · January 21

Didnt play since like 3 months, so didnt even know this exists. At this point i believe their aim is simply just to completely eliminate any PvP from ESO. After subclassing update and how bad that went you would think they would just chill on their updates or just at least ask to players if it will be a logical update in PvP terms. No, the same decision makers who introduced subclassing to PvP are still making new brilliant decisions without a single person involving that is knowledgeable enough to be able to predict the outcome. Just hilarious.

I said it many times, will say it once more, just ask the playerbase if your update will make sense. There are a lot of players that can predict the outcome without seeing it in game. And this specific one is again very bad for PvP i assure you.

MincMincMinc · January 21

albertberku wrote: »

Didnt play since like 3 months, so didnt even know this exists. At this point i believe their aim is simply just to completely eliminate any PvP from ESO. After subclassing update and how bad that went you would think they would just chill on their updates or just at least ask to players if it will be a logical update in PvP terms. No, the same decision makers who introduced subclassing to PvP are still making new brilliant decisions without a single person involving that can predict the outcome for the PvP. Just hilarious.

it would cost them too much to fix pvp, and then tie them to maintaining it forever doubling their workload. Not to mention their staff simply doesnt have pvp experience over the past decade.

If you followed vengeance and their teaser posts about a new mid sized pvp mode, the conclusion there was they could not find the silver bullet without recoding alot of the game. Thus to keep performance in check they need to cut the population of greyhost down again. The map is too large at this point for the campaign to function, so they are going to make a smaller map for the planned faction size.

Radiate77 · January 21

albertberku wrote: »

Didnt play since like 3 months, so didnt even know this exists. At this point i believe their aim is simply just to completely eliminate any PvP from ESO. After subclassing update and how bad that went you would think they would just chill on their updates or just at least ask to players if it will be a logical update in PvP terms. No, the same decision makers who introduced subclassing to PvP are still making new brilliant decisions without a single person involving that can predict the outcome for the PvP. Just hilarious.

While I believe Subclassing brought a lot of value to my experience in PvP, as we can now make thematic builds and entirely new classes, these scrolls are going to wedge the skill curve even more.

As much as I’d love someone from ZOS to tell us the Sage Vault will be where we go to craft these, I have no doubt these are just the beginning and adding a hot-swap wheel mini-game to PvP is just going to convolute the experience in such a detrimental way.

People like me? We’ll adapt immediately.

But my friends that are just now getting into the game because after years I could finally recommend it to them? Yeah this will kill their motivation. There is no positive way to spin having to menu dive mid-combat.

MincMincMinc · January 21

Radiate77 wrote: »

albertberku wrote: »

Didnt play since like 3 months, so didnt even know this exists. At this point i believe their aim is simply just to completely eliminate any PvP from ESO. After subclassing update and how bad that went you would think they would just chill on their updates or just at least ask to players if it will be a logical update in PvP terms. No, the same decision makers who introduced subclassing to PvP are still making new brilliant decisions without a single person involving that can predict the outcome for the PvP. Just hilarious.

While I believe Subclassing brought a lot of value to my experience in PvP, as we can now make thematic builds and entirely new classes, these scrolls are going to wedge the skill curve even more.

As much as I’d love someone from ZOS to tell us the Sage Vault will be where we go to craft these, I have no doubt these are just the beginning and adding a hot-swap wheel mini-game to PvP is just going to convolute the experience in such a detrimental way.

People like me? We’ll adapt immediately.

But my friends that are just now getting into the game because after years I could finally recommend it to them? Yeah this will kill their motivation. There is no positive way to spin having to menu dive mid-combat.

We also simply just dont need more wacky half designed systems plaguing the game. I mean they havent even attempted to balance scribing. Half the skills are gamebreaking and the other half are useless.

Red_Feather · January 21

I think skill scrolls would be more useful if they were an item that unlocked the skill without having to level the skill line. And then if they were account bound they would be very useful to farm and keep for people with lots of characters.

ZOS_Kevin · January 21

Just wanted to follow up here. We have passed this thread along to the team working on this. We'll touchbase with them to see what can be done here.

Radiate77 · January 21

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We have passed this thread along to the team working on this. We'll touchbase with them to see what can be done here.

Bless you Kevin, you’re the man for that.

Like I said earlier, I’m not advocating for Scrolls to be walked back, I would just like to be excited about these, and right now I’m not.

FOMO does not mesh with combat advantages, and if these were just Early Access to a new crafting system, that changes the framing entirely.

spartaxoxo · January 21

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We have passed this thread along to the team working on this. We'll touchbase with them to see what can be done here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/s/5kruGegOAF

Really appreciate all the feedback you guys have leaving. I'd also like to direct your attention to this thread on Reddit as it has further community discussion on this same issue. For some reason it is not surfacing for me very easily, which is why I linked it.

James-Wayne · January 21

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

The three skill scrolls you showed aren't that OP and apparently it uses potion CD so asking for nerf just straight ahead is overreacting. It's a new feature that could have potential, let them try new things. All this negativity on the forums is exhausting really.

💯 Agree! Thank you for mentioning cool downs, I guess some players just want to create a drama out of everything

Radiate77 · January 21

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We have passed this thread along to the team working on this. We'll touchbase with them to see what can be done here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/s/5kruGegOAF

Really appreciate all the feedback you guys have leaving. I'd also like to direct your attention to this thread on Reddit as it has further community discussion on this same issue. For some reason it is not surfacing for me very easily, which is why I linked it.

That’s because the OP deleted their post.
Incredibly annoying on forums when people leave up a thread with a deleted topic.

tsaescishoeshiner · January 22

I would only want these if they were very easy to farm (like trash potions) and not too varied. I don't want to have 8 slotted for different occasions and have to switch through them based on content/conditions.

So if you only have one quickslotted (and could only use them quickslotted) and they were easy to customize, this seems like a fun alternative to potions. It may bring up balance issues.

If they're rare or expensive, it adds a major barrier to harder content.

evLRise · January 22

Radiate77 wrote: »

evLRise wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Sharing a cooldown with potions is not a sacrifice, as sustain is entirely a joke in ESO, also Major Evasion is the strongest defense buff in PvP, and only available through a select few sources, now anyone who farms this enough will have on-demand access without making any of the necessary sacrifices to do so.

It IS a sacrifice though. Immovable potions are run by nearly every comped PvP group for a reason - they're basically an "I Win" button when your group is ready for an ult dump. Yes Major Evasion is strong, but are you really going to give up everyone's CC immunity for it when you could also source it through a healer?

You're right that it sets a bad precedent, but as they are now, I really don't see these being as advantageous as you might think.

You’re saying it’s a sacrifice to not have immovable pots and I’m saying that it isn’t because you can swap around your skills based on each encounter mid-encounter, not every fight would you benefit from Immov pots or sustain.

Part of the skill in buildmaking is fitting the most into your limited bar space, these create a problem where now everyone has a counter for everything on deck.

It’s having that on-demand choice and being able to swap these around on a whim that will create a very unhealthy combat ecosystem, and that is ignoring my disdain for yet another consumable pre-game requirement.

I can also swap my immov to a tripot mid combat. Or a resistance pot if I don't need the sustain.

Your argument is legit null.

What are you talking about? Yeah you can swap to a resistance pot, but you have a 33k cap on resistances so what are you accomplishing?

There is no cap on damage, or % mitigation values.

Just minor / major breach alone is -9k resistance

warm_blanket · January 22

Consumable skill scrolls sharing cooldowns with your pots is a pretty cool idea. Unfortunately the way they seem to drop just isn't.

If the drops were not the scrolls themselves, but instead trade-able recipes which you could learn to craft said skill scrolls that'd be much better. They should be limited to non-class skills though.

Radiate77 · January 22

I know I gave my two suggestions in the OP.

But if I had to choose one way above anything else to implement these new Skill Scrolls, I would have made them permanent. (not 1-time use)

Fill the world with them as extraordinary drops, let them be rare but bind-on-equip. Finding one could be truly exciting, we need more loot-based excitement in this game. Everything is too predictable.

heimdall14_9 · January 22

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to follow up here. We have passed this thread along to the team working on this. We'll touchbase with them to see what can be done here.

these can not go live

this would be so problematic outside of the night market ( limited-time VET PVE ZONE ) to the point it be an exploit for content