Skill Scrolls can NOT go live like this.

Radiate77 · January 21

First I just want to credit @Erickson9610 for bringing this to my attention…

Erickson9610 wrote: »

We can now find consumable items called Skill Scrolls which, when used, apply the effects of the skill to the user.

Skill Scrolls are a new type of 1-time use consumable found exclusively within the time-limited event Night Market.

They have no expiration date and can be used in all content, including Leaderboard content and anywhere Battle Spirit applies.

Needless to say I am completely against Skill Scrolls in their current iteration. Although they share the same cooldown as a potion, these are a massive advantage in content.

What I propose, would be for these skill scrolls to expire at the end of Night Market to prevent players from stocking them up in bulk and exploiting them to cheat leaderboards later down the line, or for them to be sourced throughout the game instead of solely Night Market and make them permanent items that can be used on cooldown.

In concept these could be a great addition to the game, yet for our Week 2 implementation, these are nothing short of another consumable grind that functions as a barrier between us and content, and a plague upon the community in all competitive content post event.

Morvan · January 21

I honestly don't like that concept at all, it will just add an unnecessary layer on combat, I'd rather have it only usable in the Night Market thing, like Verses and Visions in IA.

Radiate77 · January 21

I wanted to spend this PTS cycle talking about the importance of Skill Lines being distinct, and about what I enjoy about the Dragonknight rework but here we are.

Erickson9610 · January 21

I'll voice my particular concerns as well.

Werewolves should only get to use Werewolf abilities. Skill Scrolls allow them to use non-Werewolf abilities, so non-Werewolf Skill Scrolls should be disabled while transformed.

The inverse applies, too. Don't let non-Werewolves (including people who have lycanthropy but are not currently transformed) use future Skill Scrolls that are based on Werewolf abilities.

Keep Werewolf skills accessible to transformed Werewolves only, and don't let transformed Werewolves use anything outside of their skill line.

acastanza_ESO · January 21

Letting these be used outside the Night Market itself is crazy

Maybe overland when the Challenge mode is available, but anywhere else? oh heck no.

Radiate77 · January 21

Who thinks of this stuff?
Seriously, get rid of them.

Sleep724 · January 21

Oakensoul users would love these.

Radiate77 · January 21

Sleep724 wrote: »

Oakensoul users would love these.

Satire? Oakensoul players are not the ones we’re worried about getting their hands on these.

These things are tucked away behind a time limited form of content, have no expiration, and will provide an unfair advantage for anyone who has the time and group to sit there and farm these.

Either of my two proposals would make these nowhere near the problem that these will be if they make it live.

Soarora · January 21

I’ve seen the expiration concept float around in these threads and I’m solidly against them expiring. They’d still be a problem during night market. For me, this just seems like an extra unnecessary unwanted layer to combat and more inventory and quickwheel slots wasted.

Attorneyatlawl · January 21

They should only function in the night market... That would solve the issue easily.

Radiate77 · January 21

There were obviously resources put into making these, which is the only reason I have not suggested a flat-out removal of them altogether.

JohnG · January 21

Eh, as long as ultimates aren't included in this, I'd say whats the big deal. Its a one time use scroll, and as I understand it from this thread, puts your potion on cooldown. Seems like a very time consuming/costly way to gain a very small advantage. Not saying its great idea, or that I disagree with the idea of making the night market only, but frankly subclassing has broken the game WAY worse than this has any potential too.

Erickson9610 · January 21

I appreciate the thought of wanting to add an element from the singleplayer games to TES Online. I personally never used the consumable scrolls in those games, but I know that this was a requested feature. It shows ZOS was listening to player feedback.

My main concern (aside from the one I've already talked about above) is how — even though these Skill Scrolls can be likened to potions that trigger unique effects — they are not trivial to acquire. The effects they trigger are useful for certain builds. I would hope we would get a way to craft these Skill Scrolls so that we can always have them on hand. Otherwise, Skill Scrolls will be a primary reason that players grind content like this first Event Zone.

Radiate77 · January 21

I like that we are finally getting an alternative to potions but I’m sick and tired of Consumables.

When I play a progression based game, I don’t want to spend hours pre-gaming before I’m ready to jump into content.

React · January 21

It's a terrible design for a consumable that absolutely should not enter the game. No idea how they came up with these.

If they want to introduce more consumables, I'd much prefer they first finish the hybridization work on potions/poisons, and from there perhaps introduce new reagents that allow for new combinations of potions/poisons (but PLEASE not like dragon's rhaeum and dragon's blood, which are so scarce that single stacks of potions costs millions of gold to make).

These scrolls are either bound and therefore a pointless addition, or tradeable and will be extremely frustrating to maintain, as they will be 100% mandatory for competitive PVP/PVE content. Bloat or a headache.

Estin · January 21

I'm completely against these being used anywhere outside the night market. They a huge unfair advantage to anyone that has the time to grind it. Considering the difficulty of the night market, they should be boons to make it easier rather than a scroll that can be used anywhere in the game with next to no downside.

MXVIIDREAM · January 21

I read they’re disabled once you’re in a scoring instance

Striiiks · January 21

I just wanted to add

React wrote: »

It's a terrible design for a consumable that absolutely should not enter the game. No idea how they came up with these.

If they want to introduce more consumables, I'd much prefer they first finish the hybridization work on potions/poisons, and from there perhaps introduce new reagents that allow for new combinations of potions/poisons (but PLEASE not like dragon's rhaeum and dragon's blood, which are so scarce that single stacks of potions costs millions of gold to make).

These scrolls are either bound and therefore a pointless addition, or tradeable and will be extremely frustrating to maintain, as they will be 100% mandatory for competitive PVP/PVE content. Bloat or a headache.

Agree

Gabriel_H · January 21

Those tooltips appear to be missing some crucial caveats, namely: Cannot be used in PvP zones, Dungeons or Trials.

Overland and arenas only.

Radiate77 · January 21

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Those tooltips appear to be missing some crucial caveats, namely: Cannot be used in PvP zones, Dungeons or Trials.

Overland and arenas only.

For real, I can’t believe they just tried to sneak these in and not make a huge deal about them.

Muizer · January 21

Lol, sounds like yet another way to create 'new' content by recycling existing content.

Jestir · January 21

I actually really like the idea of more in combat consumables like this, even in trials/leaderboard content

Radiate77 · January 21

Jestir wrote: »

I actually really like the idea of more in combat consumables like this, even in trials/leaderboard content

How about timed exclusive abilities that you can only get through content available for 2 weeks?

If these weren’t consumed on use, and sourced throughout the world normally, and maybe even craftable, I would love them. But event exclusive combat advantage rewards? Yeah idk.

Radiate77 · January 21

I also want people to keep in mind, if these are slotted to the wheel, it means when you’re fighting another player, they can switch their Scroll to hard counter your build mid-fight.

For example, let’s say you’re playing our new DK, and you hit me with a high damage Take Flight and Fire Breath, I might just swap to Quick Cloak scroll mid fight and negate 20% of your whole kit’s damage.

You have some incredible PvP players in here who swap consumables mid-fight like it’s nothing. Ever seen someone swap to Immovs or Detect pots mid-fight? This is worse. I’m telling you.

Erickson9610 · January 21

Radiate77 wrote: »

I also want people to keep in mind, if these are slotted to the wheel, it means when you’re fighting another player, they can switch their Scroll to hard counter your build mid-fight.

For example, let’s say you’re playing our new DK, and you hit me with a high damage Take Flight and Fire Breath, I might just swap to Quick Cloak scroll mid fight and negate 20% of your whole kit’s damage.

You have some incredible PvP players in here who swap consumables mid-fight like it’s nothing. Ever seen someone swap to Immovs or Detect pots mid-fight? This is worse. I’m telling you.

To be fair, a normal player could already be using Dual Wield and reserve a slot on their bar for Quick Cloak. And I've noticed that your cast of Deadly Cloak overwrites (and is overridden by) Quick Cloak; you can't benefit from both morphs of the skill at the same time.

The biggest issue is how there is no bar space or weapon requirement for these Skill Scrolls. It's true that the Skill Scrolls affect your "cooldown" stat (meaning it's the most efficient to use a Potion and then a Skill Scroll if using a Potion Cooldown build) but there really should be checks for what kinds of abilities you should be able to cast.

Being able to swap between Potions with differing effects is no problem. You can use Potions that have effects like Invisibility or Stealth Detection, which are mutually exclusive. If we were to get Skill Scrolls for, say, Camouflaged Hunter (Guild; Fighters Guild) and Shadowy Disguise (Nightblade; Shadow) it wouldn't be too much different than using Potions specifically brewed for those effects. The issue is that these skills are now easier for someone to use.

Sotha_Sil · January 21

The three skill scrolls you showed aren't that OP and apparently it uses potion CD so asking for nerf just straight ahead is overreacting. It's a new feature that could have potential, let them try new things. All this negativity on the forums is exhausting really.

C_Inside · January 21

As someone who does endgame PVE as a DD implementing these scrolls will be one of the worst additions that the dying endgame scene has seen in a long time. Why? Because right now there are no other really useful consumables you can use.

You get the Major Weapon/Spell power buffs from Igneous Weapons or Tome-Bearer's Inspiration, you get the Major Crit buffs from NB's bow, and recoveries are useless for most specs because hybridization makes it super easy to run a mix of mag and stam skills so you never run out of either resource. This means that Weapon/Spell Power potions are useless.

Starting next patch Heroism potions will also be mostly useless since you'll be able to source Minor Heroism from Fire Keeper.

So if you're a DD you'll be in a situation where if you want to do trifectas or score push you'll be forced into grinding the Night Market. Score pushing in particular will no longer be just about who the best players are but also which group can no-life the Night Market the hardest. I hope you realize that forcing people to mindlessly grind a limited time event every free second they have to stock up on a boring consumable just so they can stay competitive will not, in fact, attract more people to ESO. It will just serve as another reason for endgame players to quit.

So please, for the love of God, @ZOS_Kevin relay to the dev team that these scrolls absolutely cannot go live in their current state. Others in this thread have already given you reasons from the perspective of werewolf players and PVPers, and now you have the perspective of a PVE player. Either make these scrolls only usable in the Night Market or make them sellable on Guild Stores. Personally I'd prefer the former.

Sotha_Sil · January 21

C_Inside wrote: »

As someone who does endgame PVE as a DD implementing these scrolls will be one of the worst additions that the dying endgame scene has seen in a long time. Why? Because right now there are no other really useful consumables you can use.

You get the Major Weapon/Spell power buffs from Igneous Weapons or Tome-Bearer's Inspiration, you get the Major Crit buffs from NB's bow, and recoveries are useless for most specs because hybridization makes it super easy to run a mix of mag and stam skills so you never run out of either resource. This means that Weapon/Spell Power potions are useless.

Starting next patch Heroism potions will also be mostly useless since you'll be able to source Minor Heroism from Fire Keeper.

So if you're a DD you'll be in a situation where if you want to do trifectas or score push you'll be forced into grinding the Night Market. Score pushing in particular will no longer be just about who the best players are but also which group can no-life the Night Market the hardest. I hope you realize that forcing people to mindlessly grind a limited time event every free second they have to stock up on a boring consumable just so they can stay competitive will not, in fact, attract more people to ESO. It will just serve as another reason for endgame players to quit.

So please, for the love of God, @ZOS_Kevin relay to the dev team that these scrolls absolutely cannot go live in their current state. Others in this thread have already given you reasons from the perspective of werewolf players and PVPers, and now you have the perspective of a PVE player. Either make these scrolls only usable in the Night Market or make them sellable on Guild Stores. Personally I'd prefer the former.

Have you looked at the scrolls ? I'd be curious to know how these will be mandatory for endgame PVE considering it's short duration & buffs you can get elsewhere...

ZhuJiuyin · January 21

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

Have you looked at the scrolls ? I'd be curious to know how these will be mandatory for endgame PVE considering it's short duration & buffs you can get elsewhere...

No, this will definitely become a necessity in PvE. Skill scrolls essentially give players an extra skill slot, especially scrolls like Quick Cloak that provide additional damage.

I agree that skill scrolls should either be restricted from use in any leaderboard content, or limited to use only in the Night Market.

C_Inside · January 21

Sotha_Sil wrote: »

C_Inside wrote: »

As someone who does endgame PVE as a DD implementing these scrolls will be one of the worst additions that the dying endgame scene has seen in a long time. Why? Because right now there are no other really useful consumables you can use.

You get the Major Weapon/Spell power buffs from Igneous Weapons or Tome-Bearer's Inspiration, you get the Major Crit buffs from NB's bow, and recoveries are useless for most specs because hybridization makes it super easy to run a mix of mag and stam skills so you never run out of either resource. This means that Weapon/Spell Power potions are useless.

Starting next patch Heroism potions will also be mostly useless since you'll be able to source Minor Heroism from Fire Keeper.

So if you're a DD you'll be in a situation where if you want to do trifectas or score push you'll be forced into grinding the Night Market. Score pushing in particular will no longer be just about who the best players are but also which group can no-life the Night Market the hardest. I hope you realize that forcing people to mindlessly grind a limited time event every free second they have to stock up on a boring consumable just so they can stay competitive will not, in fact, attract more people to ESO. It will just serve as another reason for endgame players to quit.

So please, for the love of God, @ZOS_Kevin relay to the dev team that these scrolls absolutely cannot go live in their current state. Others in this thread have already given you reasons from the perspective of werewolf players and PVPers, and now you have the perspective of a PVE player. Either make these scrolls only usable in the Night Market or make them sellable on Guild Stores. Personally I'd prefer the former.

Have you looked at the scrolls ? I'd be curious to know how these will be mandatory for endgame PVE considering it's short duration & buffs you can get elsewhere...

Quick Cloak is not a skill you usually slot because it's so weak. Having it in scroll form is a free DOT you can prebuff without slotting it that doesn't follow the GCDs of your other skills since it's a consumable. So it's essentially free damage. And you also get Major Evasion for free.

Absorb Missile can be used in super niche situations where you'd otherwise consider using a skill like the new DK wings. For example to make it easier to survive the Soulweaver ads in the trash pulls in Rockgrove. So this scroll effectively makes the reworked DK wings dead on arrival.

Momentum is the only one that's useless.

Also, keep in mind the rest of my post about there not being any useful potions. Even if these scrolls only added an extra 100 dps (So 800dps for 8DDs) they would still be mandatory in a score pushing scenario where every last point of dps matters. Or in a still-good-but-not-top-tier trifecta group where 800 dps could be the difference between success and an extra mechanic happening that kills someone.

Plusscher · January 21

What I cannot wrap my head around is zos makes a skill/class that requires 0 skill to play, and hyperfocus every content around that one class/skill to close the gap between endgame and casual, yet they add things like this and the free respec in every content on the spot not realizing how massive they are making the gap. Absolute insanity. Like I do wonder what a DD would chose, a potion that gives some resource back or a free skill? Hmmm.... tough choice.

If it is not incredibly obvious by now, this leads to insane gatekeeping and a force to grind nightmarket to have enough of these scrolls to do trials. Just...why?

I was so hopeful with this new team, but I suppose that hope was misplaced. Do they not think and realize the implications of adding these kind of things before they spend development time on it? I know they don't play their own game, but damn.

This should be straight up just removed from the game. Nothing good comes out of adding it in any capacity.

Edit: I say all of this by the way as a "hardcore endgame" player both pve pvp, I do want more people in endgame, desperately so, since the scene is dying rapidly, but zos just doesn't care I suppose. People are already confused and overwhelmed, why add extra multiple layers on top of it?