Update 49 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of January 26:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 26
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 26
Vengeance
-
ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have removed some insulting back and forth that was disruptive. Please ensure you are treating others with respect on the forums even when they have views that differ from your own.
The Elder Scrolls Online Team2 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Vengeance was supposed to be about performance but the people that keep asking for it are doing so because of balance and not performance.
What? It seems we’re beginning to severely lack valid arguments against Vengeance.
Performance is just as important as balance. We want to continue having smooth running huge keep battles (as in hundreds of players fighting at the same keep with minimal to zero lag).
The reason you mainly see balance being mentioned is because it still needs to be worked out (NB by far too powerful, for example), while smooth performance is pretty much a mission accomplished.
Sorry but no, most the threads advocating for Vengeance make statements (like OPs) about enjoying “balance” (ie no subclassing) in some way shape or form and comparing it to GH. Balance shouldn’t be the pro argument for a specific campaign, it should be a game wide goal. Rarely, do these threads start off with “Man I really want Vengeance because performance is better than XYZ.” This is literally the only thing that bothers me personally. Balance should be an achievable goal for ZOS without having to give up on the rest of the game, yet almost every time these threads pop up the poster says something about balance in Vengeance and it’s crickets from ZOS about balancing the actual game. I no longer really have a problem with Vengeance, I won’t play it cause I don’t enjoy it. But I also don’t enjoy the imbalance in our current GH either."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
As the other poster alluded to, there's no need to discuss performance on Vengeance because it's a solved problem, while the balance on Vengeance does clearly need work. You don't like Vengeance, that's fine, so what do you care what happens with it?Balance should be an achievable goal for ZOS without having to give up on the rest of the game, yet almost every time these threads pop up the poster says something about balance in Vengeance and it’s crickets from ZOS about balancing the actual game.
Surprisingly it's not crickets from ZOS, the new dev team is finally communicating on PTS, they're attempting to address heal stacking. No solution yet, but they are discussing options, so if you are invested in full build PvP then would that forum not be a better use of your time?PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭LittleLionLeone wrote: »I love how people get warned about keeping the conversation civil and yet still provide unnecessary back and forth. A simple thread asking for Vengeance turns into an ego fight over the two campaigns.
Its literally one user, every single time. Every single vengeance related thread.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...2 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭I would like to see vengeance and Greyhost both up during the event and maybe we'll actually get some stats to see what is more popular rather than statements with nothing to back it.
I am fine with this, maybe itll spread the pop out a bit so greyhosts queue isnt so punishingZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭
✭
As the other poster alluded to, there's no need to discuss performance on Vengeance because it's a solved problem, while the balance on Vengeance does clearly need work. You don't like Vengeance, that's fine, so what do you care what happens with it?Balance should be an achievable goal for ZOS without having to give up on the rest of the game, yet almost every time these threads pop up the poster says something about balance in Vengeance and it’s crickets from ZOS about balancing the actual game.
Surprisingly it's not crickets from ZOS, the new dev team is finally communicating on PTS, they're attempting to address heal stacking. No solution yet, but they are discussing options, so if you are invested in full build PvP then would that forum not be a better use of your time?
True, I don’t care about Vengeance.
But, YOU and the OP are discussing GH in this thread. OP was saying they enjoyed balance in Vengeance compared to GH. No idea what you’re saying but it all seems tailored to bashing GH with no constructive feedback.
Literally already gave thoughts in this thread about the heal stacking, yet you’re bringing it up again like we’re goldfish. It’s great they are finally trying something (which they reverted already and we have no path forward as of now)."IMO"Aldmeri Dominion1 Nightblade - 1 Templar - 7 Hybrid Mutt Abominations0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Why do so many people continue to engage that user then? No one is obligated to. If that user's opinion was irrelevant, you'd think they would simply be ignored. Instead, it is as if GH players fear the last of their server will die the moment Vengeance actually goes live.BardokRedSnow wrote: »Its literally one user, every single time. Every single vengeance related thread.PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP3 -
ToddIngram✭✭✭✭
No, they're not. They're arguing for performance improvements in GH. You seem to have lost the thread.
0 -
ToddIngram✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »LittleLionLeone wrote: »I love how people get warned about keeping the conversation civil and yet still provide unnecessary back and forth. A simple thread asking for Vengeance turns into an ego fight over the two campaigns.
Its literally one user, every single time. Every single vengeance related thread.
And that poster will have the same problems in vengeance that drove them out of GH to begin with. For them the problem has less to do with vengeance vs. GH than it does with creating at atmosphere nobody wants to be a part of.0 -
xylena✭✭✭✭✭
✭
ball groupsToddIngram wrote: »creating at atmosphere nobody wants to be a part of
proc sets
instant deathsPC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP3 -
ToddIngram✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »LittleLionLeone wrote: »I love how people get warned about keeping the conversation civil and yet still provide unnecessary back and forth. A simple thread asking for Vengeance turns into an ego fight over the two campaigns.
Its literally one user, every single time. Every single vengeance related thread.
I fear they're being allowed to continue with the behavior because ZOS has already decided that scenario 2 is going to be the future. It's just too blatant to think otherwise at this point.
Edited by ToddIngram on January 20, 2026 4:16PM1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
Why do so many people continue to engage that user then?BardokRedSnow wrote: »Its literally one user, every single time. Every single vengeance related thread.
So Zos notices the ratio, vocal minorities too often get changes through around here.Edited by BardokRedSnow on January 20, 2026 5:33PMZos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
aetherix8✭✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »
Why do so many people continue to engage that user then?BardokRedSnow wrote: »Its literally one user, every single time. Every single vengeance related thread.
So Zos notices the ratio, vocal minorities too often get changes through around here.
Thanks goodness for surveys, if ZOS only ever listened to this forums exclusively this game would be dead years ago.PC EU - V4hn13 -
BardokRedSnow wrote: »
Its literally one user, every single time. Every single vengeance related thread.
No I'm definitely talking about multiple people on both sides of the argument. Just some are worse than others.2 -
Iriidius✭✭✭✭✭Artisian0001 wrote: »
The vast majority of GH regulars obviously still enjoy GH. Selection bias / survivor bias.Artisian0001 wrote: »The vast majority of us actually enjoy GH, we have overwhelming evidence of that.
They are a tiny minority of the thousands who once regularly played this PvP sustaining multiple servers active 24/7. Intense obsessive fanbases don't just disappear unless there are major problems for years on end, as we have experienced. The interest is still there waiting for some sort of change to be affected in the PvP paradigm.
It has nothing to do with selection or survivorship bias. Do you even know what either of those are? Every single person had the ability to play in vengeance, it wasn't like they only allowed those currently in GH as the test population, or only those who liked ballgroup gameplay. Every single person could go and the pop was still low. They were both available to be played at the same time and the vast majority chose to not go into vengeance when it wasn't overwhelmed with extra rewards and the only option available .
It has very much to do with survivorship and selection bias.
A player who likes PvP like it is now will stay in game to play the PvP ruleset he enjoys (often for many years).
A player who prefers PvP with normalized stats (like in Vengeance) but came to ESO before Vengeance was therefore unable to play PvP the way he likes and (unless he also likes PvE) had nothing to keep playing ESO for. Therefore he probably has stopped playing and wont even get information that the PvP he wants to play is now available. Even if he does Vengeance haters will tell him it isnt the PvP he wants to prevent him from testing (and if he still tries that as returning/PvE player he doesnt count).
It is strange that Vengeance haters cant imagine that players preferring Vengeance did not come or stay in game when Vengeance was not available.
They claim all the time to quit if Vengeance replaces GreyHost or even if it becomes option or testing continues.PC EU0
