lillybit wrote: »

Lucasl402 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Some of these arguments are so constructed and fake… the Crown Sale was some kind of scam now? How so? There are three Crown Sales per year and always at the same time…

You still can buy everything for Crowns, right until March. There was nothing risky in getting Crowns (I also bought 35.000 fyi) and really nothing shady about the sale whatsoever.

I'm not understanding something maybe.

Crowns are still going to be a thing after the next update, right? They're not taking crowns away are they? And if they are, what are they replacing them with? How's that going to work if they're replacing them with something different?

Crowns aren't going anywhere. As far as I can tell they were saying they were tricked into buying crowns when they'll now have to spend real money on the passes, or quit and lose the crowns.

I don't really understand the point. If we'd stuck with chapters there would've been a real money purchases anyway, so it wasn't too much of a stretch to imagine the replacement needing to be paid for too. The passes aren't even needed for gameplay so can just be ignored.

I don't get why some people are so resistant to change when the thing that's changing was so bad!

TY. That's what I thought but the way the discussion was going it was confusing me.

lillybit wrote: »

I don't get why some people are so resistant to change when the thing that's changing was so bad!

I understand that resistance to change can be unproductive, and I agree that nothing stays the same forever. The issue isn’t change itself… it’s the direction of that change given what we’ve seen over the past few years.

If recent content had been engaging enough to attract and retain players, we likely wouldn’t be having this conversation at all. Instead, ZOS has pivoted toward emotionally driven marketing like “You belong here” rather than confidently showcasing new releases. That shift raises an obvious question: would they really want to spotlight something like Season of the Worm Cult given its reception and technical issues?

This is also a studio that openly boasts about having made billions from ESO. That makes it hard to justify giving endless slack or the benefit of the doubt. These are well-paid professionals providing a commercial service… not friends or peers… and it’s reasonable to hold them to high standards.

LukosCreyden wrote: »

At the end of the day, MMOs need new things to survive. NEW things. Recycled and rehashed old things CAN work, but MMOs ultimately need new things. So, new zones, new classes, new skill lines. New toys.

One mans old recycled is another man's new, especially for people who have never played some of these classes but might now because damn, them dk animations are mint now lol

The new new new crowd is why this game has so many issues

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

PPS: Most games' battle passes dont make the meat of their content free, never would've guessed Zos would take that step, massive for them, as long as the content given isnt watered down further and is actually good. Thats the real question.

The fact that much of this “free” content is time-gated makes it feel watered down before I even experience it.

Battle Passes are NOT consumer-friendly. In practice, it risks extracting more money from a smaller, remaining player base while delivering less permanent content to actually enjoy.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

The new new new crowd is why this game has so many issues

The new new new crowd is why the game earned more than a billion for more than a decade.

Now they just cater towards new players or players that recently started out. It is easy to dismiss people calling out ZOS by complaining about content when you probably still have 1000 quests unfinished and 200 sets to collect in dungeons. I wouldn’t care either because than it feels like a catchup year.

But many people were literally waiting for new content because they exhausted all content.

And yeah I know we can play other games, and that’s what probably many people in my shoes will do as well. Either way they will have to attract at least as many players as they lose this year plus more. Otherwise management will say the new model has failed.

lillybit wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Some of these arguments are so constructed and fake… the Crown Sale was some kind of scam now? How so? There are three Crown Sales per year and always at the same time…

You still can buy everything for Crowns, right until March. There was nothing risky in getting Crowns (I also bought 35.000 fyi) and really nothing shady about the sale whatsoever.

I think you are misunderstanding what I wrote. Before the announcement, every new cosmetic would certainly be released in the crown store as they always had been, which means buying crown packs was always going to be useful to get ALL the available cosmetics and going to be available cosmetics. If not now, then in the future. By adding many new cosmetics to battle pass now, which is not in the crown store nor available for crowns, these crowns can't be used for those cosmetics at all. Meaning many future cosmetics are not available for crowns anymore, while they always used to be.
Had I known beforehand that the crown store would no longer be the only method of getting cosmetics and that crowns would no longer be the only method to get the cosmetics going forward, I would never have bought these.

And it is not like ZOS did not know they were changing the payment model before the crown pack sale started. They could have simply stated the crown pack sale was taking place a month later or something, even without going into details as to why. They did not!

PS: Yes, I know crowns and the crown store are still going to be a thing, but not everything will be available for crowns any longer. Due to the change in payment model.

That's a false argument too. Not all cosmetics were available with crowns. There's been many in the daily rewards (which the Tomes are replacing so really just moved) and events which these will encompass too.

Added to that, with the Chapter model there were always exclusive items that weren't available for crowns. This is going away.

Also, there will always be people who will buy the crowns you don't now want, so that gives you gold towards the mounts being added the the stable master.

The Tomes give a whole 2 crown store level rewards per season so it's not going to be a massive drain on things you get to buy

Those places to get cosmetics are different, and you know it. The chapter model was known beforehand, and the ones in the daily rewards were always free. The higher tiers battle pass are not free, so the argument that they replace the free login rewards falls apart there.

The crown store had for 10+ years realistically been the only way to get all the new cosmetics, and the only way to buy something from the crown store is through buying crowns. As a player this change in payment model was completely unforeseen. For the record, I am not stating there was any maliciousness or anything like that on ZOS's part, but rather an oversight. That does not take away that for someone like me, someone who stacks up on many many crowns during a sale, this feels really dirty. Had everything in the crown store been available directly for cash, instead of a ZOS crown store only currency, there would be no problem at all right now.

When changing payment model, this is something that should have been taken into account.

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

PPS: Most games' battle passes dont make the meat of their content free, never would've guessed Zos would take that step, massive for them, as long as the content given isnt watered down further and is actually good. Thats the real question.

The fact that much of this “free” content is time-gated makes it feel watered down before I even experience it.

Battle Passes are NOT consumer-friendly. In practice, it risks extracting more money from a smaller, remaining player base while delivering less permanent content to actually enjoy.

What exactly is much of this content? Because the only thing we know of as of know is Night Market and that’s already returning end of the year.

The battle pass is entirely optional as it’s just cosmetics. It’s really the most friendly monetization possible as it doesn’t lock any content behind it like most of the other games do. This is basically the antithesis to P2W via battle pass.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Players: no new zones please, make old zones relevant again

ZOS: does that

Players: we want new zones, making old zones relevant again is maintenance mode

Very true. I would like new stories and quests no matter where they are placed.

Sometimes I forget that new adventures are just a portal away in most cases. Where the portal opens is subject to the story being told.

Now for some new immersive stories and meaningful quests this one patiently waits, one hopes not in vain.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Some of these arguments are so constructed and fake… the Crown Sale was some kind of scam now? How so? There are three Crown Sales per year and always at the same time…

You still can buy everything for Crowns, right until March. There was nothing risky in getting Crowns (I also bought 35.000 fyi) and really nothing shady about the sale whatsoever.

These threads usually play out like that, yeah.

That’s why I haven’t bumped this one until now; and only because the bolded line made me audibly laugh.

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Some of these arguments are so constructed and fake… the Crown Sale was some kind of scam now? How so? There are three Crown Sales per year and always at the same time…

You still can buy everything for Crowns, right until March. There was nothing risky in getting Crowns (I also bought 35.000 fyi) and really nothing shady about the sale whatsoever.

These threads usually play out like that, yeah.

That’s why I haven’t bumped this one until now; and only because the bolded line made me audibly laugh.

Welcome back from the break you took! Looking forward to constructive input. 👍🏻

I was summoned, yes.

The original plan was a few weeks, but unfortunately the timing was bad, I’ll leave you to your thread.

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

What exactly is much of this content? Because the only thing we know of as of know is Night Market and that’s already returning end of the year.

The Night Market is the only new “zone” area announced for the year and it isn’t even permanent. It’s a temporary space that gets introduced, pulled back, and rotated in again later.

We are told this is great for players. It’s free. It’s flexible. It’s experimental. But in practice, it functions as a FOMO engine. Limited-time access drives logins, and once you’re there, you’re funneled directly toward Battle Pass cosmetics.

Daily rewards and Endeavors weren’t generating enough pressure to sustain engagement, so they were replaced with a system that ties urgency more tightly to monetization… then framed as a player-friendly upgrade.

There is a reason the new “event bars” cannot be bought with Crowns like “event tickets”… to drive people into buying premium battle passes.

There isn't all that much FOMO with something that runs for 6 weeks, comes back later in the year and might be made permanent at some point depending on it's reception.

I'm just seeing a lot of speculation presented as fact about the impact they'll have on the game. They aren't even on PTS yet so nobody knows how they'll be implemented and how much funnelling they'll be

licenturion wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

The new new new crowd is why this game has so many issues

The new new new crowd is why the game earned more than a billion for more than a decade.

Now they just cater towards new players or players that recently started out.

Theyve been doing this from day one because the game makes billions off of them, and the crown store, not the chapters or theyd still be doing them

Which is not me defending them getting rid of it, its just the truth. Im a pvp player, but we all know pvp is not the cash cow.

The "give me new things crowd" is merely the reason we get a new system every year that compounds on the lack of balance.

SummersetCitizen wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

PPS: Most games' battle passes dont make the meat of their content free, never would've guessed Zos would take that step, massive for them, as long as the content given isnt watered down further and is actually good. Thats the real question.

The fact that much of this “free” content is time-gated makes it feel watered down before I even experience it.

Battle Passes are NOT consumer-friendly. In practice, it risks extracting more money from a smaller, remaining player base while delivering less permanent content to actually enjoy.

They are not typically, no, but this has the potential to be. I'll change my mind when we see it for ourselves if its bad. Warframe is an example of a game with all the typical monetization but tons of great content fans are loving even now. Its not all doom and gloom always just because a battle pass is present.

I'm looking forward to all the Class changes with updated visuals and skills to make the pure classes stronger.

With Subclassing last year we didn't really get anything new, it was just allowing us to mix existing skills and passives we had been using for years.

For the first time we're actually getting full Class overhauls to bring them up to date and give them a fresh take almost like getting a semi new Class added to the game every season.

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Overall, it's not "ESO 3.0" as explosive renewal—it's mature optimization for longevity: free access to keep/invite players, battle pass for reliable income from dedicated ones. Not doom, just realistic late-cycle vibes.

Thank you for this. It’s honestly what I needed to hear.

When I say this is depressing, I mean that literally. It makes me sad to watch a game and community I love so, so much slowly fade. That’s the nature of life, I suppose.

I’ve probably been fooling myself into thinking there was something we could do to bring ESO back to what I consider its peak… when the population was growing and everything just felt right. That hasn’t been true for a while now, at least from my perspective.

I won’t reopen the Steam Charts debate, but what those charts show aligns with what I’ve experienced in-game: everything feels slower. Fewer new players stick around, and the player economy continues to contract alongside that decline.

What I failed to fully accept is that this game, like everything else, has a life cycle. Sometimes you have to acknowledge that reality and decide how to move forward.

I love this game. I’ve gotten over 8,000 hours of meaningful enjoyment from it, and I’ve probably spent a few thousand dollars over the years if I stopped to tally it up. I’ll continue playing, remain an ESO+ member, and likely buy each Premium+ offering. So long as ESO is here, I will be too.

“To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven: a time to be born, and a time to die.”