Vengeance Needs Incentive to get More Players to Join

PhxOldGamer68 · 5:55AM

Players need a reason to join the testing. ZOS should set the alliance we enter so that it’s always equal number of players. Don’t give us a choice. Just have us queue in like Battlegrounds. This is getting pathetic.

aetherix8 · 6:08AM

No, thank you. Some players already feel “forced” to participate in Vengeance while other campaigns are disabled. To add to that the feeling of being forced to play enemy faction while being a one-faction player, not being able to group and play with friends coz you cannot control which faction you will land on… that doesn’t seem a good idea to me.
Cyrodiil isn’t BGs, faction matters there.

If you want to incentivize players to join Vengeance, you need to offer more build diversity, more customization options, more movement speed; you need to balance classes better etc etc.

Forcing people to queue into enemy faction is the opposite of incentive.

MasterSpatula · 6:10AM

I don't know about this solution, but if they're going to have pop caps so high, they definitely need to find some way to disincentivize joining on a faction that has a large population imbalance in its favor and incentivize joining one at a disadvantage.

I may think the imbalances possible in the Live version of Cyrodiil are really unhealthy and unenjoyable, but these population imbalances are every bit as bad.

aetherix8 · 6:20AM

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I don't know about this solution, but if they're going to have pop caps so high, they definitely need to find some way to disincentivize joining on a faction that has a large population imbalance in its favor and incentivize joining one at a disadvantage.

I may think the imbalances possible in the Live version of Cyrodiil are really unhealthy and unenjoyable, but these population imbalances are every bit as bad.

I agree that unbalanced populations are a huge problem, but I think that forcing people into different factions every time they queue would just make things worse participation-wise. I would rather see dynamic queue locks that would prevent any faction from reaching overwhelming numbers at any time.

React · 6:21AM

PhxOldGamer68 wrote: »

Players need a reason to join the testing. ZOS should set the alliance we enter so that it’s always equal number of players. Don’t give us a choice. Just have us queue in like Battlegrounds. This is getting pathetic.

Why? If this is what the majority wants and is apparently so preferable to non-pvp players, why do we need an incentive to get them in there? Shouldn't they just be in there already?

Arboz · 7:31AM

Nothing could ever bring me to play that mode, saying this as a pure PvPer.
Why should I play another character, with different Skills and equipment?
Dont know that character and dont feel it, this is definitely the biggest sh… I ever saw in any MMORPG.

edward_frigidhands · 8:20AM

React wrote: »

PhxOldGamer68 wrote: »

Players need a reason to join the testing. ZOS should set the alliance we enter so that it’s always equal number of players. Don’t give us a choice. Just have us queue in like Battlegrounds. This is getting pathetic.

Why? If this is what the majority wants and is apparently so preferable to non-pvp players, why do we need an incentive to get them in there? Shouldn't they just be in there already?

This.

Apparently the "data" we were shown says this thing is going to be the bee's knees with players for the next 3 decades. To the point we are ready to possibly have a scenario where we delete an instance of the actual game (Gray Host) in favor of it.

With such a stamp of confidence, I am going to say the mere presence of this "test" or whatever we are going to be calling it is it's own reward.

Rkindaleft · 10:58AM

If anything, not having a reason to play in the test is a good thing. You can find out how many people are actually interested in the mode without an event or a golden pursuit inflating the population numbers by FOMOing people into playing it.

After the test, if the data shows that there weren’t many people playing it, then it just means people don’t want to play it.

AnduinTryggva · 11:29AM

aetherix8 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I don't know about this solution, but if they're going to have pop caps so high, they definitely need to find some way to disincentivize joining on a faction that has a large population imbalance in its favor and incentivize joining one at a disadvantage.

I may think the imbalances possible in the Live version of Cyrodiil are really unhealthy and unenjoyable, but these population imbalances are every bit as bad.

I agree that unbalanced populations are a huge problem, but I think that forcing people into different factions every time they queue would just make things worse participation-wise. I would rather see dynamic queue locks that would prevent any faction from reaching overwhelming numbers at any time.

I don't see this as a huge issue. The gameplay does not change at all independent of your alliance. The only point would be: strong role play (but those folks hardly play pvp anyway) or enforced by one' guild. I doubt however that ppl will be kicked out of a guild if one is forced by the game itself to a certain alliance.
Compared to this unbalance campains are a much bigger issue and one that has the potential to kill off pvp because ppl in an underrepresented alliance will rather quit more readily enforcing the unbalance issue. Extrapolate this in your mind and see the issue that this tendency is doing much harm to pvp itself because imbalance will push ppl out of pvp (not the only factor of the dire situation of ESO pvp but still one of them)

Estin · 11:30AM

Vengeance isn't my thing because it's too much of a numbers game with little individuality. I do expect vengeance to end up being as dead as ravenwatch is throughout the year and only be (maybe) massively populated during mayhem since Vengeance is exactly what a casual player wants. Easy to do quests and large zerg vs zerg for fast AP. Even with crossplay, I don't see it being more than 1 bar throughout the year. That doesn't mean it's bad, it's just that the crowd that it's attractive to are not the type who would be in there every day. The medium sized open world map that is coming on the other hand I can see being populated more than grayhost.

Last'One · 12:28PM

My dear friend… at this point, players don’t just need a reason to join testing, players need a reason to play ESO at all.

The game is a mess. Classes are gone, balance is completely broken, roles barely exist anymore, the lore feels ignored, and honestly… I almost have nothing good left to say about the game. I really, really don’t see any reason to play this horrific version we have now. And yet… here I am.

So no, I don’t think we need “reasons.” They already took them all away.
What we need is hope, something I don’t have anymore.

As for “reasons to join the tests”… how many players have tested things, given feedback, offered suggestions, only for ZOS to do exactly what players said not to do? That’s the real problem.

edward_frigidhands · 12:40PM

Estin wrote: »

I do expect vengeance to end up being as dead as ravenwatch is throughout the year

I hope it ends up off of the Live servers and back on the PTS where it belongs.

Four_Fingers · 1:00PM

Yep, we really need the ball groups to control the large alliance zergs after all.

aetherix8 · 2:20PM

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

aetherix8 wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I don't know about this solution, but if they're going to have pop caps so high, they definitely need to find some way to disincentivize joining on a faction that has a large population imbalance in its favor and incentivize joining one at a disadvantage.

I may think the imbalances possible in the Live version of Cyrodiil are really unhealthy and unenjoyable, but these population imbalances are every bit as bad.

I agree that unbalanced populations are a huge problem, but I think that forcing people into different factions every time they queue would just make things worse participation-wise. I would rather see dynamic queue locks that would prevent any faction from reaching overwhelming numbers at any time.

I don't see this as a huge issue. The gameplay does not change at all independent of your alliance. The only point would be: strong role play (but those folks hardly play pvp anyway) or enforced by one' guild. I doubt however that ppl will be kicked out of a guild if one is forced by the game itself to a certain alliance.
Compared to this unbalance campains are a much bigger issue and one that has the potential to kill off pvp because ppl in an underrepresented alliance will rather quit more readily enforcing the unbalance issue. Extrapolate this in your mind and see the issue that this tendency is doing much harm to pvp itself because imbalance will push ppl out of pvp (not the only factor of the dire situation of ESO pvp but still one of them)

There’s another point: trust. In my early PvP days, when I was leading a lot of pugs, I used to coordinate with other groups and guilds. I was eventually invited into a guild that was existing solely to coordinate our targets. And some members there were very wary of potential spies.

So yet again, yes, unbalanced populations are a huge problem, but forcing people to fight for other factions, when those players are attached to their chosen faction, is the wrong solution. Dynamic queue locks would be better imho.

valenwood_vegan · 2:41PM

Problem is that unless people are actually enjoying the gameplay, incentives are only going to work for a short time. They'll get people to play until they complete the [whatever it is - an event, a golden pursuit, some shiny reward]. So then you need an incentive *all* the time, but then after a while that becomes the baseline experience and it's not an incentive anymore.

Vulkunne · 4:21PM

I've played every version of Vengeance so far and sigh I hate being kind of negative about it because there are things I like about the Vengeance gameplay.

A problem I have noticed is consistency. So, in other words, tactics and different types of support, commonly utilized for good reason in regular PvP is like not even possible in Vengeance. As I discovered this morning and last night, Keep Doors are an absolute nightmare to deal with. Another thing I don't care for is it feels as if I'm forced to 1v1. Which normally I 1vX. I don't mind 1v1, but I think most will agree that is something you need to be more dressed and slotted for. You also have situations where it's like people are racing to get the siege AP and not actually paying attention to lookout for anyone whose getting wrecked by 1v1 folks.

The gameplay brings people in, but these other little gameplay quarks send people away. This really more than anything else reminds me of the early days when Imperial City was released. You will learn quickly that you can't 1v1 every single person and this is kind of like going back to that. If I really wanted to 1v1 everyone I might goto BGs for example.

ToddIngram · 4:33PM

There is no incentive that ZOS could offer that would get me to play vengeance. Not after how I was played for the fool in the past.

Last'One wrote: »

My dear friend… at this point, players don’t just need a reason to join testing, players need a reason to play ESO at all.

The game is a mess. Classes are gone, balance is completely broken, roles barely exist anymore, the lore feels ignored, and honestly… I almost have nothing good left to say about the game. I really, really don’t see any reason to play this horrific version we have now. And yet… here I am.

So no, I don’t think we need “reasons.” They already took them all away.
What we need is hope, something I don’t have anymore.

As for “reasons to join the tests”… how many players have tested things, given feedback, offered suggestions, only for ZOS to do exactly what players said not to do? That’s the real problem.

Rohamad_Ali · 4:50PM

Every time I have a new build to work on, it's Vengeance time again. We are literally paying for Beta testing still.

SkaiFaith · 4:54PM

I'm no core PvPer. I enjoyed first Vengeance test, with loooots of players on console (Xbox EU). I tried jumping in on subsequent tests, this one too, and I always find few players, and every time I join my character is in the alliance that has 4 players online while the others have a dozen. I don't want to swap character so I end up leaving Cyro and doing something else.

Someone here said we need a reason to play ESO, not just PvP. I'll tell you this: today Xbox store showed me a page "popular in your country"... ESO wasn't even in the top 100 games, behind things like Child of light.

Fair point, I recently said ESO won't have players in Italy because it hasn't Italian subs. Tbh, I think it wouldn't have Italian players anyway. (For the curious: top games are basically all CoD, FC, AC, F1, Fortnite, Rocket League, GTA)

My hopes are high in the new direction: leaving old hardware and renewing everything, from visuals to combat animations and difficulty... Things can certainly improve. Get worse? Idk.

tomofhyrule · 5:53PM

And how long is that going to work?

Vengeance 1 was populated because of all of the incentives they gave. But that's unsustainable to do permanently. People complained about Vengeance 3 going against a competing Pursuit and a cometing event, but is the solution "oh, we'll just never do another event again so that there is nothing to compete with permanent Vengenace" really viable?

Vengeance, if it's going to be its own thing, needs to be able to support itself without incentives. And if it can't... well, that doesn't bode well for permaVengance.

Durham · 6:01PM

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Yep, we really need the ball groups to control the large alliance zergs after all.

No you do not, ball groups are entertaining for the 12 people running them but they are absolutely game breaking for everyone else.

ToddIngram · 7:38PM

Durham wrote: »

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Yep, we really need the ball groups to control the large alliance zergs after all.

No you do not, ball groups are entertaining for the 12 people running them but they are absolutely game breaking for everyone else.

So ZOS should destroy their premier game mode rather than make a small adjustment to heal stacking is your argument?

BardokRedSnow · 8:07PM

Nothing better than the OP stating what we've been saying was wrong with Vengeance from the start while the rest of the community has been in denial.

Vengeance will not last, will be just another dead ravenwatch campaign once people get bored of their templates.

KiltMaster · 9:32PM

The extra AP is nice but that is pretty much the only thing I enjoy about it