Would you be okay with Subclassing being rolled back?

Marto
Marto
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I know it's a bit of a hot subject at the moment, so I'd like to start by asking people to be respectful and civil.

I think it's a very good sign that ZOS is looking for feedback on existing systems to see how they could be improved. A lot of long-standing issues with the game have been ignored because the priority was on Chapters, new zones, new mechanics features, and the new player experience in general. But now that the game and its playerbase are aging, ZOS is shifting the focus towards veteran players (with stuff like Infinite Archive, Scribing, the more linear stories and timeline coming soon, etc.)


I think the mixed response to the recent poll comes from the fact that subclassing has made a lot of the discussions regarding class balance, identity, and mechanics a lot more complicated than they used to be. There's lots of different angles from which to look at things, far more considerations to be made, and a lot of opinions and philosophies. Is too much choice always a good thing? Was the class system a mistake from day one of ESO? Can a middle ground even exist, or should the devs stick with only one?

The new Vengeance campaign is proof that ZOS is open to the idea of seeing if something works before adding it.

I have a feeling that if the playerbase had been told about Subclassing 1-2 years before it released, most people would've preferred it never be added. Or at least, enough of a percentage to make it not worth the downsides.

If ZOS is now more willing to look at existing mechanics and systems... does that mean they're willing to remove things, if they don't work?

Is it even worth it to take away choices from players, even if it makes the final product better?

I'd like to see where the community stands on such questions.
Edited by Marto on September 27, 2025 9:04PM
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Would you be okay with Subclassing being rolled back? 306 votes

Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.
35%
SkraggyMuizerThalmarAlinielDenverRalphyStihlReignMasterSpatulaopethmaniacWaughDeimusTandorHymzirBuboshLord_Hevsilky_softshadyjane62UlvichRagnarok0130ParasaurolophusDestai 108 votes
No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
52%
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Partially. I think subclassing should be more limited and situational (only 1 skill line, no passives, only on PVE, etc.)
7%
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Other
3%
Tavore1138EstinFischblutErickson9610LikiLokiVvwvenomwvVMcMasterxmdjessup4906MageCatF4FRkindaleftSoaroraRadiate77 12 votes
  • CoronHR
    CoronHR
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    No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
    i think the cat's out of the bag and there's no going back.

    that said, i hate the idea that we'll never get a new class, because with subclassing, that idea seems dead. so, if we had to do it all over again, i'd say no to subclassing and yes to a new class, but i just think it's too late
    PC - EU - Steam client
  • Estin
    Estin
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    It needs to go back to the drawing board so it can be properly balanced without ruining class identity or pure class balance. There's no reason why subclassing should be miles ahead of a pureclass. It should be an option, not a requirement. Even when pure arcanist was at its strongest, all other classes except for warden and NB were able to compete in both ST and Cleave. NB was only able to compete with ST. You still had options even if arcanist was the easiest class to do everything as. In PvP, as long as you weren't a necro or arcanist, you could match up with any class and be pretty equal. Now ever since its release, damage, defense, and sustain were nerfed for pure classes in order to get subclassing "reigned in", but if you subclassed, you would be nearly 50% stronger without any effort.
  • YandereGirlfriend
    YandereGirlfriend
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    No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
    CoronHR wrote: »
    i think the cat's out of the bag and there's no going back.

    that said, i hate the idea that we'll never get a new class, because with subclassing, that idea seems dead. so, if we had to do it all over again, i'd say no to subclassing and yes to a new class, but i just think it's too late

    What exactly is the logic that subclassing means no new classes? That doesn't add up.
  • kargen27
    kargen27
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    No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
    A lot of players have been asking for something like this for a very long time and now that we have it have invested a lot of time taking full advantage. It's a popular change to the game.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • tomofhyrule
    tomofhyrule
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    CoronHR wrote: »
    i think the cat's out of the bag and there's no going back.

    that said, i hate the idea that we'll never get a new class, because with subclassing, that idea seems dead. so, if we had to do it all over again, i'd say no to subclassing and yes to a new class, but i just think it's too late

    I'm not on the "we'll never get a new Class" train yet, but then again that is what I want most in the game. I am feeling super pessimistic about it happening anytime soon though. I was hoping we would get another by the big U50 we'll see next summer, but I'm betting that they're going to use that patch for "Cyrodiil updates!" (aka replacing half of the existing Campaigns with Vengeance) and "Overland difficulty!" (aka a self-nerf slider that turns enemies into damage sponges and gives you a wet noodle to attack with) instead.

    I do think that Subclassing actually makes it easier to add more Classes - at this point, a new Class doesn't need to come with more character slots so they don't have to free that space for it. After all, players who choose not to make a brand new character then have three extra skill lines they could trade out at will. There are still plenty of places they could go with new classes, and a lot of hotly requested things.

    And logistically, every DLC Class has to be bought with real money, either with a Chapter/Pass purchase or a la carte with Crowns. And if there are any questions as to whether it would sell... well, how many players do you see with beams nowadays? After the incredibly light year of content that was 2025, they really need to give players a reason to spend money next year and a Class would do it.

    And besides, what kind of a final number is 7 in the first place? Everything in game runs in multiples of 4. If nothing else, we need a new Class to make the character creation screen look less unbalanced.

    But yes, I do think a new Class would be a hard sell considering how the balance is. Logically, the Combat team wouldn't want to add anything new until balance is in a better state... but the Combat team hasn't exactly been acting he most logically lately. They might just say "screw it, let's just toss something else in there!" Not to mention that a new Class would also need to get a matching Companion (for Bahtra to reference in the Subclass quest, if nothing else) and a new Class Script effect and a new set of Class sets in the Archive (and the associated styles, but those should absolutely all be made available for all Classes already...)

    As to the topic: I can't give an answer since removing it will never happen. Ever. If I were in charge, I definitely would have done it differently from the start, but now all ZOS can do is try to balance it (which they may want to start doing instead of spending the entirety of the time ignoring balance to make Vengeance a new thing). I'm sure they thought that it would be as big for ESO as 1T was, and we can see a lot of the solo players are super happy about it... but evidently ZOS had no clue that the rest of the playerbase would not think Subclassing was the greatest thing since sliced bread, and they did not foresee that dropping a year of content where the only new thing was "you can now delete all of your alts and merge them all into one!" would drive a lot of resentment and exodus. And I'm sure the big layoffs aren't helping keep morale up, and then their analytics are showing that ESO is not booming and all of their Content Creators are either leaving or posting content along the lines of "why everything is bad now."

    This is a prime example of why "we can't wait to show you what's coming" is not a good strategy, since by the time they announce it, it's too late to fix anything at a base level... which means instead of being able to please all of your customers, you end up really making one group happy while driving off another group. Every one of the sweeping updates they've done like Hybridization, Account-wide Achievements, and now Subclassing has come up with a huge feedback thread on the PTS with two major groups that aren't necessarily opposing, but have very different goals... but the change is just pushed through and with zero regard to the concerns of one of those groups.

    Ah well, I'll just keep praying to every Divine that they are secretly working on an Artificer class and we'll eventually get to see an 8th set of skill lines. I really enjoy the new character creation process and I would like a reason to see the updated tutorial and updated starter zones already, and I don't want to just come in and see the same skills I've already played with but just in a different order. I want something new.
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
    I love subclassing and the flexibility it adds to the game! :)
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • Radiate77
    Radiate77
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    My frustration with Subclassing is that I spent years developing alts, despite wanting to ONLY play my main character… because I wanted to experience the entirety of the game.

    Subclassing opened the door for people that prefer an alt-less playstyle, and my only problem is it took them this long to decide to open those doors.
    Other than Fatecarver…
    why is that skill still in the game?
    Edited by Radiate77 on September 27, 2025 10:56PM
  • spartaxoxo
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    No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
    Absolutely not. Many people enjoy it and I don't see why a major feature should be completely eradicated because it's not perfectly balanced straight out of the gate.
  • Kendaric
    Kendaric
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    No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
    No, it should stay.

    Should it be iterated and issues be addressed? Absolutely, I'm certain it can be improved in various ways.
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    • Rkindaleft
      Rkindaleft
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      I have been vehemently against Subclassing since the first week of the U46 PTS, but I also acknowledge that it's part of the game now and it won't realistically ever be rolled back.

      The issue now, is that outside of nerfed DK sustain and a nerfed Relentless Focus in PvE, they haven't attempted to balance this crazy system at all. People have been crying out for meaningful changes for months, and we're currently in the middle of the U48 PTS and they've still not properly attempted to make any sort of update of consequence. Unfortunately, this is part of another problem - because you released Subclassing full steam ahead ignoring any feedback, letting broken builds (and especially Fatecarver) blow past the power creep, the only way to reign it in is to nerf almost all your players - except taking power away from the players doesn't feel particularly good, and you're also harming the players that haven't wanted to subclass and are using builds that aren't broken for no reason.

      Now, I don't know about other people, but I believe the mixed reactions from the classes poll are mainly due to the fact the poll was poorly timed - if they really wanted to know where people stand on classes, they should have asked this question BEFORE Subclassing went live. If you told a new player what a class is in this game after the Subclassing update, well, frankly there isn't a whole lot there. There's a class mastery script, a handful of class sets from Infinite Archive, and which skill lines you can combine when Subclassing. Unless you're someone who refuses to Subclass, there isn't really such a thing as "classes" anymore.
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    • WhiteCoatSyndrome
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      No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
      I’m having fun using jabs on my Sorc, and the Nightblade invisibility has made all the tedious stealth quests much less tedious.
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    • Hapexamendios
      Hapexamendios
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      No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
      I don't have any problems with it.
    • karthrag_inak
      karthrag_inak
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      No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
      Biased poll is biased
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    • Erickson9610
      Erickson9610
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      The poll is biased. What I want from Subclassing is not listed here.
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    • Punches_Below_Belt
      Punches_Below_Belt
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      Pointless discussion. Nothing good or bad gets “rolled back”. It may get tweaked but they don’t spend months /years on gaming systems and then just say “my bad. It’s gone.” I.e.PVP
      Edited by Punches_Below_Belt on September 28, 2025 1:27AM
    • Horace-Wimp
      Horace-Wimp
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      Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.
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    • manukartofanu
      manukartofanu
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      Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.
      I think that three months after the release of the multiclass, it’s already pointless to ask for feedback on it. At this point, you need to look at the numbers, and rely only on them.
      Feedback should have been asked for before release, at release, maybe a couple of weeks after release. After almost four months, everyone who didn’t like it has already had time to leave.

      The problem with asking for feedback long after release is that those who don’t like it have already had the time to move on to another game. So you can be sure – only the satisfied audience remains, and they will give positive feedback.

      What else can be looked at is the topic made BEFORE the multiclass announcement, where people discussed the problems they wanted addressed. And such a topic did exist.
      https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/672718/dev-team-request-a-top-5-list-of-bugs-and-pain-points-you-would-like-addressed/p1
    • colossalvoids
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      Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.
      It won't be though, doesn't really matter to even discuss it in that way. It would obviously be tweaked one way or another some other year down the line.
    • ArchMikem
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      Partially. I think subclassing should be more limited and situational (only 1 skill line, no passives, only on PVE, etc.)
      I said this back during the PTS. Should've been limited to just one skill line.
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    • valenwood_vegan
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      It's not going to be rolled back any more than it was the last time a similar poll was put up.
    • BretonMage
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      Partially. I think subclassing should be more limited and situational (only 1 skill line, no passives, only on PVE, etc.)
      It should have been limited to one skill line. We would still have balance issues, but it would have been easier to balance.

      Additionally, it would have retained a sliver of class identity at least. When I subclassed only one line, I still felt like a sorcerer, but now I'm trying out a second subclassed line (which I'm not enjoying and cannot wait to drop), I feel like a mishmash of skill lines. Sure I could make up some kind of story for myself, but it still feels like a mishmash of abilities.
    • silky_soft
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      Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.
      Put negatives on it so original class has advantage using those skills.
      This recent update has made me sad. Sad for the game. Sad for the community. Sad to pay whatever it is now. I want the previous eso back.
    • LunaFlora
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      No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
      no lol.
      it is not happening regardless of any polls.

      i do not think we needed another poll about something that is very unlikely to ever happen.
      Per usual with polls, these poll options should have just been a simple Yes, No, Other.

      edited to add:
      i voted for No, because that's my response. i do not see any problems with Subclassing.
      And whilst i do "think it's better if it stays", i do not believe it matters whether i think that or not as i do not believe Subclassing will be removed.

      Class skill line balance issues were there before Subclassing and would have been there even if it did not get added.
      Participate in the recent Class survey zos posted, it seems useful!
      https://beth.games/48vEBIP
      Edited by LunaFlora on September 28, 2025 4:17AM
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    • Ishtarknows
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      No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
      Any roll back would need to include refunds for classes bought due to subclassing imo

      Nerfs to class skills and passives make single-classing less effective now so many people felt compelled to purchase classes in order to return to where they were in terms of power. I know I did for my second account. At lower CP I felt the difference to my classes in terms of damage so I bit the bullet and bought 2 new classes which I hadn't felt the need to do before
    • Last'One
      Last'One
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      Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.
      yes, please!
    • amiiegee
      amiiegee
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      Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.
      Alone the fact there is so much insecurity about this system says all! People dont like it, people didnt ask for it
    • old_scopie1945
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      No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
      I enjoy subclassing but the elephant in the room is its negative effects on pure builds. I still enjoy pure builds as well as scribing (which now seems to have been relegated to the dust bin of history). ZOS's planning seems to jump around like a frog on a hot frying plan. ;)
    • Four_Fingers
      Four_Fingers
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      No. Despite any problems with subclassing, I think it's better if it stays and its issues get addressed.
      silky_soft wrote: »
      Put negatives on it so original class has advantage using those skills.

      Why should any class have an advantage against the others?
      Seems like the pot calling the kettle black.
    • noblecron
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      Partially. I think subclassing should be more limited and situational (only 1 skill line, no passives, only on PVE, etc.)
      I think it's too late to roll back but should be adjusted so single classes can still be viable
    • alpha_synuclein
      alpha_synuclein
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      Yes. I think it would be best for the game if subclassing was removed.
      I would pay extra if it was reversed.

      Not going to happen anyway....
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