Overland Content Feedback Thread

shadoza · August 11

spartaxoxo wrote: »

There are absolutely people who farm public dungeons for exp. A lot of times it will be people who can't or don't want to farm Skyreach or Black Rose Prison. I've also seen that many times. Those public dungeons also have drops that they can pickup. So they can get exp and a bit of progress for the drop, even if the drop is not their priority.

At the end of day. It's not something ZOS should be discouraging because it's still people playing the overland. This isn't a single player game.

Yes, it is not a single-player game. It is a multi-player game online. However, this does not mean that the development of the game should disrespect those that do not group to play.

I am not looking to discourage people from playing overland. I am looking for a way that one could play a quest field, WB, DA, or even dungeons because many of the dungeons start with a quest found outside without having to deal with an empty playing field.

It would be great if players respected each other, but the don't. I have asked in chat why the player killed the foe I was fighting with while passing through. There is no answer. They don't read chat. They don't recognize other players. They play as if playing a single-player. You can't change the behavior of players like this. You cannot change the behavior of cycling through public dungeons killing bosses only. You cannot change the behavior of gathering trash-mobs and killing them as one with an AOE. You cannot change the behavior of the players so the environment or mechanics of the game needs to be addressed. Which is what I am discussing.

spartaxoxo · August 11

It is not disrespectful for a player to farm an activity or attempt to work together to kill a mob. Both of those things are standard MMO behavior. If you want to be the only one killing a particular group of enemies, your best bet is to either play instanced content solo or to play a single player game. The purpose of MMOs is to offer group activities. Public dungeons, world bosses, and delves are designed as group content.

There are different levels of group content. Some of it is simply designed to be a "hub" type activity where different players may not necessarily be in any formal group but may still work together with strangers to enjoy content. This content is typically low stakes and allows players of all types and skill levels to meet one another. (ETA: In other words, they may be solo but they are solo together working on similar objectives as others sharing the space).

Much of overland is that type of "hub" content. That's why it is not instanced to you and they put rare drops in it to encourage people to come back to farm it even when they're done with the story.

ESO_player123 · August 11

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

The leads at static locations are for the antiquities that are one and done. Those are not the ones that keep players returning to the area again. Most antiquities require 3 for the codex/ability to purchase a furnishing for money. These are the ones that make players return for more.

Do not get me wrong, I would LOVE some changes for how leads drop: increasing the probability of getting them, not making them RNG on top of RNG (I'm looking at you, treasure map chests and Psijic portals). But placing them statically on the ground to just pick up will not retain players in the area.

Edit: by the way, mobs in public dungeons also drop fragments. So, that is another reason for a player to kill them as they pass through (if they have not finished the collectible yet).

disky · August 11

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

shadoza · August 11

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It is not disrespectful for a player to farm an activity or attempt to work together to kill a mob. Both of those things are standard MMO behavior. If you want to be the only one killing a particular group of enemies, your best bet is to either play instanced content solo or to play a single player game. The purpose of MMOs is to offer group activities. Public dungeons, world bosses, and delves are designed as group content.

There are different levels of group content. Some of it is simply designed to be a "hub" type activity where different players may not necessarily be in any formal group but may still work together with strangers to enjoy content. This content is typically low stakes and allows players of all types and skill levels to meet one another. (ETA: In other words, they may be solo but they are solo together working on similar objectives as others sharing the space).

Much of overland is that type of "hub" content. That's why it is not instanced to you and they put rare drops in it to encourage people to come back to farm it even when they're done with the story.

The number of times someone told me to 'go play a single-player game . . . ' Please let us not go there again. MMOs are not Co-ops. They're just not.

Being standard behavior is not an excuse to behave badly. <== My opinion.
I am not refencing group behavior. What I have been describing is groups, usually two or three with companions and combat pets, farming dungeons, farming DA, farming quest areas for their own gain without considering the players that are doing quests, hitting a dungeon for the first time, or engaging with a dolmen for the first time.

I understand the concept 'it is not just your game; it is my game too.' If there is a foe guarding a treasure chest. You fight the foe to gain access to the treasure. While you are fighting, some one other comes along and takes the treasure you worked toward. Not illegal. But not good game ethics either.

I am passionate about this issue because have had friends stop playing because of it. I talked a friend into trying the game. They have been playing for a few months. They generally enjoy the game. The last few days, they don't 'feel' like playing. Why? Because focused farming, whether it be a dungeon or a quest field, interferes with their game progression. I talked them into doing the adventure guide. We did Glenumbra first because there was dungeon they hadn't completed. The dungeon was empty. No mobs, no boss, no resources to check out. Empty. I said, wait, we have the quest. They said, no. They were tired of playing behind farmers always waiting for things to spawn so they can do quests or experience the game.

This day, someone I do not know was ranting about someone else that I did not know trolling them in the game. This is not a 'me' problem. This is a 'everyone' problem. The saddest part was I suggested that the party that was upset come to this fora and share their experience so the dev can see where some Points of Pain are. Some players in the chat because aggressive suggesting that 'complaining' to the devs was an immature action. They attacked the posters that suggested the behavior was not appropriate.

Since we cannot change player's behavior, let us focus on ways that can mitigate the damage the bad behavior does. Can we do this?

shadoza · August 11

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

spartaxoxo · August 11

shadoza wrote: »

Since we cannot change player's behavior, let us focus on ways that can mitigate the damage the bad behavior does. Can we do this?

MMOs aren't for everyone. I do not think that the devs should be trying to stop players from farming drops.

I also fundamentally disagree that farming is bad behavior.

You're describing someone playing the game as it was designed to be played as bad behavior. Going to a public dungeon to farm drops, leads, and exp is valid gameplay.

I personally find grinding for rare drops to be kind of dull most of the time. But I know of players who work hard for rare drops in the game and spend many hours to get those drops. They are so happy to have a nice goal that they can relax and enjoy spending that time. And the devs specifically put rare drops in those places to give the players that enjoy farming them something to do.

Questers and newbies are not the only ones entitled to the overland space.

shadoza · August 11

spartaxoxo wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Since we cannot change player's behavior, let us focus on ways that can mitigate the damage the bad behavior does. Can we do this?

MMOs aren't for everyone. I do not think that the devs should be trying to stop players from farming drops.

I also fundamentally disagree that farming is bad behavior.

You're describing someone playing the game as it was designed to be played as bad behavior. Going to a public dungeon to farm drops, leads, and exp is valid gameplay.

I personally find grinding for rare drops to be kind of dull most of the time. But I know of players who work hard for rare drops in the game and spend many hours to get those drops. They are so happy to have a nice goal that they can relax and enjoy spending that time. And the devs specifically put rare drops in those places to give the players that enjoy farming them something to do.

Questers and newbies are not the only ones entitled to the overland space.

I see we cannot discuss this between us. I thank you for responding however.

disky · August 12

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

shadoza · August 12

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

disky · August 12

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

Well, first of all, you actually said "the original alliance maps" which led me to believe you were talking about the primary base game zones, not just the starter zones, and I still believe that. That being said, I don't actually think that this is as common a problem as you're making it out to be. I may be a veteran but I'm almost never in a situation in which I feel like I need to interact with another player's fight, nor do I think most new players would have that experience frequently enough to warrant a grievance. There's pretty much always more than enough enemies available for everyone, and even when there aren't, the level scaling tends to do a fair enough job. I have seen scenarios in which someone comes along and destroys everything very quickly but not on a regular basis.

As for solutions, give veteran players the option to enjoy the game at an appropriate challenge level. And for those who just want to farm...those people will always exist. It's an MMO, that's basically unavoidable. Generally though, it's confined to certain optimal areas, and for those who really know their stuff, a lot of it happens in instanced content anyway.

shadoza · August 12

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

Well, first of all, you actually said "the original alliance maps" which led me to believe you were talking about the primary base game zones, not just the starter zones, and I still believe that. That being said, I don't actually think that this is as common a problem as you're making it out to be. I may be a veteran but I'm almost never in a situation in which I feel like I need to interact with another player's fight, nor do I think most new players would have that experience frequently enough to warrant a grievance. There's pretty much always more than enough enemies available for everyone, and even when there aren't, the level scaling tends to do a fair enough job. I have seen scenarios in which someone comes along and destroys everything very quickly but not on a regular basis.

As for solutions, give veteran players the option to enjoy the game at an appropriate challenge level. And for those who just want to farm...those people will always exist. It's an MMO, that's basically unavoidable. Generally though, it's confined to certain optimal areas, and for those who really know their stuff, a lot of it happens in instanced content anyway.

I added the brackets, an industry standard for indicating a clarity, to bring my focus to the maps that I am referencing. The starter zones being Auridon, Glenumbra, and Stonefall. I am there every day I play. I start new characters often because I enjoy testing different skill combinations, different classes, races, genders . . . when a character gets to level 50, if I am not enjoying it, I delete and try something different. I am a veteran player with higher level characters. I am a veteran gamer with years of experience in playing MMOs. I am not creating a grievance; the issues are real and it is causing some new players to wrinkle their noses regarding the game.

If you are going to dismiss the problem, you cannot find a solution. I want to discuss a possible solution rather than relate how ways we can dismiss the concern. Thank you for responding.

ESO_player123 · August 12

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

There is no challenge for a CP 2K+ player in a delve of public dungeon. They are there farming for a lead, finishing a daily, completing an endeavor. If you are proposing to removing these reasons, people will simply not return to those places. Why would they?

Actually, this whole thread is about making them more challenging. How ZoS is going to implement that I have no idea. I just hope that it will be optional.

spartaxoxo · August 12

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

There is no challenge for a CP 2K+ player in a delve of public dungeon. They are there farming for a lead, finishing a daily, completing an endeavor. If you are proposing to removing these reasons, people will simply not return to those places. Why would they?

Actually, this whole thread is about making them more challenging. How ZoS is going to implement that I have no idea. I just hope that it will be optional.

They basically already confirmed that it will be optional. They don't make absolute statements prior to launching things. But that they gave that confirmation that it's what they're "looking into" means it is very low chances of it being anything but that.

I don't think vet options would prevent people from farming drops on a normal mode though. The drops are meant to be farmed and they are high value. They are their to entice people to farm and they work.

ESO_player123 · August 13

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

There is no challenge for a CP 2K+ player in a delve of public dungeon. They are there farming for a lead, finishing a daily, completing an endeavor. If you are proposing to removing these reasons, people will simply not return to those places. Why would they?

Actually, this whole thread is about making them more challenging. How ZoS is going to implement that I have no idea. I just hope that it will be optional.

They basically already confirmed that it will be optional. They don't make absolute statements prior to launching things. But that they gave that confirmation that it's what they're "looking into" means it is very low chances of it being anything but that.

I don't think vet options would prevent people from farming drops on a normal mode though. The drops are meant to be farmed and they are high value. They are their to entice people to farm and they work.

I absolutely agree with you that making a vet option will not make people stop farming on normal. The whole point of farming is to get something as fast as possible. I'm definitely not going to go to vet overland for picking flowers or leads unless the drop rate/quantity is increased enough to justify the additional effort.

disky · August 13

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

There is no challenge for a CP 2K+ player in a delve of public dungeon. They are there farming for a lead, finishing a daily, completing an endeavor. If you are proposing to removing these reasons, people will simply not return to those places. Why would they?

Actually, this whole thread is about making them more challenging. How ZoS is going to implement that I have no idea. I just hope that it will be optional.

They basically already confirmed that it will be optional. They don't make absolute statements prior to launching things. But that they gave that confirmation that it's what they're "looking into" means it is very low chances of it being anything but that.

I don't think vet options would prevent people from farming drops on a normal mode though. The drops are meant to be farmed and they are high value. They are their to entice people to farm and they work.

Sure, but does it actually matter? I don't personally care about people farming. It's been part of MMOs for decades and no manner of vet overland challenge implementation will change that. Fortunately, anyone who is interested in farming will figure out one of the primary farming locations and go there. If that happens to be where you want to be in that moment and you're not interested in farming, that sucks I guess, but it's temporary, and there is so much more of the world to experience. It's practically a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

shadoza · August 13

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

There is no challenge for a CP 2K+ player in a delve of public dungeon. They are there farming for a lead, finishing a daily, completing an endeavor. If you are proposing to removing these reasons, people will simply not return to those places. Why would they?

Actually, this whole thread is about making them more challenging. How ZoS is going to implement that I have no idea. I just hope that it will be optional.

It was my understanding this thread was where we discussed overland content. When I read this, that is what I believed it to mean.
"So, we have made a thread for players who would like to discuss the topic of Overland Content."

The reason people would play in those areas if because they are playing a new character are they are a new player.

I see the problem with making things more challenging: the leveled player wants more challenging content, the content gets more difficult, the players want more compensation, so they get more gear to answer the difficult, then the difficult content isn't difficult anymore so they want content that is more difficult...again. It is a self-perpetuating issue.

I am sure that none want to read those words either. However so, I want to be able to play the game. I would like to play without my activities being interfered with. I will not engage in augments of who has a right to be where because that is not what I wish to discuss here.

Yes, there are dailies in delves. I did an Undaunted this day that sent me to a delve in Stormhaven. When My higher level characters are in lower level areas, I respect the efforts of lower levels. If they are fighting the boss, I wait. If they are fighting a mob, I move past them and fight the next foe target. I have never spawn-camped a boss and allowed my companion to make the kill while I am AFK. I have never sped ahead of a quester to kill the boss before they arrive. I do not take treasures or resources behind someone's back because I can do it fast and they are fighting the foe guarding. If I am traveling through a quest area, I do not wrangle the mobs and one-hit them with an AOE. I kill what attacks me and leave the rest for the questers. Respect.

Since we cannot make players behave well, we should discuss what can be done to reduce the conflicts of interest.
Move the leads topside. Put them in places where there is not questing.
Perhaps put players on cooldown for dark anchors so it doesn't become a stampede from one dolmen to the next.
Dungeon boss can also be set up with a cooldown period.
Make dungeons instances
I believe there are options I have not considered yet.

ESO_player123 · August 13

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

There is no challenge for a CP 2K+ player in a delve of public dungeon. They are there farming for a lead, finishing a daily, completing an endeavor. If you are proposing to removing these reasons, people will simply not return to those places. Why would they?

Actually, this whole thread is about making them more challenging. How ZoS is going to implement that I have no idea. I just hope that it will be optional.

It was my understanding this thread was where we discussed overland content. When I read this, that is what I believed it to mean.
"So, we have made a thread for players who would like to discuss the topic of Overland Content."

The reason people would play in those areas if because they are playing a new character are they are a new player.

I see the problem with making things more challenging: the leveled player wants more challenging content, the content gets more difficult, the players want more compensation, so they get more gear to answer the difficult, then the difficult content isn't difficult anymore so they want content that is more difficult...again. It is a self-perpetuating issue.

I am sure that none want to read those words either. However so, I want to be able to play the game. I would like to play without my activities being interfered with. I will not engage in augments of who has a right to be where because that is not what I wish to discuss here.

Yes, there are dailies in delves. I did an Undaunted this day that sent me to a delve in Stormhaven. When My higher level characters are in lower level areas, I respect the efforts of lower levels. If they are fighting the boss, I wait. If they are fighting a mob, I move past them and fight the next foe target. I have never spawn-camped a boss and allowed my companion to make the kill while I am AFK. I have never sped ahead of a quester to kill the boss before they arrive. I do not take treasures or resources behind someone's back because I can do it fast and they are fighting the foe guarding. If I am traveling through a quest area, I do not wrangle the mobs and one-hit them with an AOE. I kill what attacks me and leave the rest for the questers. Respect.

Since we cannot make players behave well, we should discuss what can be done to reduce the conflicts of interest.
Move the leads topside. Put them in places where there is not questing.
Perhaps put players on cooldown for dark anchors so it doesn't become a stampede from one dolmen to the next.
Dungeon boss can also be set up with a cooldown period.
Make dungeons instances
I believe there are options I have not considered yet.

There are simply too many leads to remove them from delves and public dungeons elsewhere. Placing them on the ground is ok for something that is done only once. Leads that drop from delves and dungeons are for the antiquities that people have reasons to gather multiple times. Placing everything on the ground is not engaging. Once the locations are known, it's the same as picking them up from a vendor for free.

As I already mentioned, making public dungeons instanced does not not make sense because they are public with group events.

Bosses are already on cooldowns for drops. Those cooldowns do not affect leads I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong). Placing cooldowns on leads too will only alienate a large portion of players.

I know that new players now spawn in the Coldharbor prison again (makes sense). Can't they still chose to go to any zone and start from there? Should those zones also be considered "low-level" zones?

shadoza · August 13

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

There is no challenge for a CP 2K+ player in a delve of public dungeon. They are there farming for a lead, finishing a daily, completing an endeavor. If you are proposing to removing these reasons, people will simply not return to those places. Why would they?

Actually, this whole thread is about making them more challenging. How ZoS is going to implement that I have no idea. I just hope that it will be optional.

It was my understanding this thread was where we discussed overland content. When I read this, that is what I believed it to mean.
"So, we have made a thread for players who would like to discuss the topic of Overland Content."

The reason people would play in those areas if because they are playing a new character are they are a new player.

I see the problem with making things more challenging: the leveled player wants more challenging content, the content gets more difficult, the players want more compensation, so they get more gear to answer the difficult, then the difficult content isn't difficult anymore so they want content that is more difficult...again. It is a self-perpetuating issue.

I am sure that none want to read those words either. However so, I want to be able to play the game. I would like to play without my activities being interfered with. I will not engage in augments of who has a right to be where because that is not what I wish to discuss here.

Yes, there are dailies in delves. I did an Undaunted this day that sent me to a delve in Stormhaven. When My higher level characters are in lower level areas, I respect the efforts of lower levels. If they are fighting the boss, I wait. If they are fighting a mob, I move past them and fight the next foe target. I have never spawn-camped a boss and allowed my companion to make the kill while I am AFK. I have never sped ahead of a quester to kill the boss before they arrive. I do not take treasures or resources behind someone's back because I can do it fast and they are fighting the foe guarding. If I am traveling through a quest area, I do not wrangle the mobs and one-hit them with an AOE. I kill what attacks me and leave the rest for the questers. Respect.

Since we cannot make players behave well, we should discuss what can be done to reduce the conflicts of interest.
Move the leads topside. Put them in places where there is not questing.
Perhaps put players on cooldown for dark anchors so it doesn't become a stampede from one dolmen to the next.
Dungeon boss can also be set up with a cooldown period.
Make dungeons instances
I believe there are options I have not considered yet.

There are simply too many leads to remove them from delves and public dungeons elsewhere. Placing them on the ground is ok for something that is done only once. Leads that drop from delves and dungeons are for the antiquities that people have reasons to gather multiple times. Placing everything on the ground is not engaging. Once the locations are known, it's the same as picking them up from a vendor for free.

As I already mentioned, making public dungeons instanced does not not make sense because they are public with group events.

Bosses are already on cooldowns for drops. Those cooldowns do not affect leads I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong). Placing cooldowns on leads too will only alienate a large portion of players.

I know that new players now spawn in the Coldharbor prison again (makes sense). Can't they still chose to go to any zone and start from there? Should those zones also be considered "low-level" zones?

I am looking for a discussion not an argument. If you do not want to discuss, that is fine.

spartaxoxo · August 13

disky wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

There is no challenge for a CP 2K+ player in a delve of public dungeon. They are there farming for a lead, finishing a daily, completing an endeavor. If you are proposing to removing these reasons, people will simply not return to those places. Why would they?

Actually, this whole thread is about making them more challenging. How ZoS is going to implement that I have no idea. I just hope that it will be optional.

They basically already confirmed that it will be optional. They don't make absolute statements prior to launching things. But that they gave that confirmation that it's what they're "looking into" means it is very low chances of it being anything but that.

I don't think vet options would prevent people from farming drops on a normal mode though. The drops are meant to be farmed and they are high value. They are their to entice people to farm and they work.

Sure, but does it actually matter? I don't personally care about people farming. It's been part of MMOs for decades and no manner of vet overland challenge implementation will change that. Fortunately, anyone who is interested in farming will figure out one of the primary farming locations and go there. If that happens to be where you want to be in that moment and you're not interested in farming, that sucks I guess, but it's temporary, and there is so much more of the world to experience. It's practically a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

No, I don't think it does either. I don't think agree there is a problem to solve. I'm of the belief that someone else getting to a delve before you did is an inconvenience and mildly annoying at times. But if they're going to be there a while, you can always come back later. In a shared environment, it is first come, first serve. I mean the royal you, FYI, not anyone in particular. I think we're close to the same page on that point.

I'm just saying that I don't think that they could solve that problem, even if they wanted to, short of eliminating the playstyle entirely by not having any rewards in overland outside of the quests.

Vonnegut2506 · August 13

spartaxoxo wrote: »

disky wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

There is no challenge for a CP 2K+ player in a delve of public dungeon. They are there farming for a lead, finishing a daily, completing an endeavor. If you are proposing to removing these reasons, people will simply not return to those places. Why would they?

Actually, this whole thread is about making them more challenging. How ZoS is going to implement that I have no idea. I just hope that it will be optional.

They basically already confirmed that it will be optional. They don't make absolute statements prior to launching things. But that they gave that confirmation that it's what they're "looking into" means it is very low chances of it being anything but that.

I don't think vet options would prevent people from farming drops on a normal mode though. The drops are meant to be farmed and they are high value. They are their to entice people to farm and they work.

Sure, but does it actually matter? I don't personally care about people farming. It's been part of MMOs for decades and no manner of vet overland challenge implementation will change that. Fortunately, anyone who is interested in farming will figure out one of the primary farming locations and go there. If that happens to be where you want to be in that moment and you're not interested in farming, that sucks I guess, but it's temporary, and there is so much more of the world to experience. It's practically a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

No, I don't think it does either. I don't think agree there is a problem to solve. I'm of the belief that someone else getting to a delve before you did is an inconvenience and mildly annoying at times. But if they're going to be there a while, you can always come back later. In a shared environment, it is first come, first serve. I mean the royal you, FYI, not anyone in particular. I think we're close to the same page on that point.

I'm just saying that I don't think that they could solve that problem, even if they wanted to, short of eliminating the playstyle entirely by not having any rewards in overland outside of the quests.

They don't need to solve that problem because it isn't a problem. I have leveled over 30 characters from scratch in my nine years in the game never grinding in instanced content. The number of times I have had a high-level character disrupt my play could be counted on less than one hand. This is simply not the large problem that some people try and make it out to be.

spartaxoxo · August 13

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

disky wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

disky wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

"ESO_player123 wrote:

Leads are one of the ways to entice long term players to revisit old content. Where do you propose to put them instead?

Yes, we want to keep old content fresh.
After leaving a dungeon, I found a lead sparkling on the ground. There were many of these sparkling leads in High Isles. Perhaps more of that.

Just...on the...ground? Look, maybe in rare circumstances, but that sounds so incredibly boring to me. I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game, and for a lot of people, most people I believe, a game requires motivation. Leads are a form of motivation. Leaving them on the ground is completely removing one of their primary purposes for existing.

Yes on the ground. Not in easy to find places.
10 for an Alchemy station
10 for a provisioning station
I won't spoil the hunt for others by saying where I found them. There might be more out there that I haven't found yet.

I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the original alliance maps. Creating a new character would bring these folks back to the starter maps. But that seems to be part of the problem. After creating a new character the player wants to instant level them to 50 so they can slap those CPs on it and take it to where ever else they play.

What would you suggest be done to help new players have an enjoyable start to their experience with this game?

Sorry, are you implying that overland is not meant for veteran players? As something of a veteran with about 1700cp, overland is the entire reason I'm here. ESO is a TES game, and TES has always been about what we consider "overland content". So if overland isn't fun, I'm not interested in playing, but I know this game has potential and so here I am campaigning for improvements. I would spend so much more time in ESO if overland were actually challenging enough for me to enjoy.

I don't understand why certain people seem to take this stance, as if overland simply should not be played by vets. It is the essential TES experience in ESO after all. Overland simply needs to be made enjoyable for vets, and I'm sick to death of people saying "go do raids or dungeons" because that's not why I'm here and it's not what TES has ever been about prior to ESO. It's good content for those who want it, but it's only another component of the game, not something that should be an expected and required step along the path. Certainly, there are plenty of people who don't feel it necessary to engage with that content.

With regard to the new player experience, I am not here to discuss that and I'm not sure why you even brought it up. As far as I'm concerned, new players are fine in overland.

I am not implying that overland is not meant for veteran players. When it was written: " I know there are some people who have no interest in challenge but this is a game..." I stated: "I understand the desire for challenging content. I do not understand what is challenging for a CP2k+ to fight in a delve or public dungeon in the [starter zones.]"

I am addressing specific behavior of some players in that level area. Those who's behavior is disrupting the quest progression of other players. I am not saying that some have more rights to play in that area than others. My discussion is looking for a solution to the conflicts not make excuses for any parties behavior or attitude and certainly not looking to determine who has a right to be where.

Let us discuss what can be done to allow lower level players to do that quest without competing with players who are high enough level to one-hit the boss or mobs.

There is no challenge for a CP 2K+ player in a delve of public dungeon. They are there farming for a lead, finishing a daily, completing an endeavor. If you are proposing to removing these reasons, people will simply not return to those places. Why would they?

Actually, this whole thread is about making them more challenging. How ZoS is going to implement that I have no idea. I just hope that it will be optional.

They basically already confirmed that it will be optional. They don't make absolute statements prior to launching things. But that they gave that confirmation that it's what they're "looking into" means it is very low chances of it being anything but that.

I don't think vet options would prevent people from farming drops on a normal mode though. The drops are meant to be farmed and they are high value. They are their to entice people to farm and they work.

Sure, but does it actually matter? I don't personally care about people farming. It's been part of MMOs for decades and no manner of vet overland challenge implementation will change that. Fortunately, anyone who is interested in farming will figure out one of the primary farming locations and go there. If that happens to be where you want to be in that moment and you're not interested in farming, that sucks I guess, but it's temporary, and there is so much more of the world to experience. It's practically a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

No, I don't think it does either. I don't think agree there is a problem to solve. I'm of the belief that someone else getting to a delve before you did is an inconvenience and mildly annoying at times. But if they're going to be there a while, you can always come back later. In a shared environment, it is first come, first serve. I mean the royal you, FYI, not anyone in particular. I think we're close to the same page on that point.

I'm just saying that I don't think that they could solve that problem, even if they wanted to, short of eliminating the playstyle entirely by not having any rewards in overland outside of the quests.

They don't need to solve that problem because it isn't a problem. I have leveled over 30 characters from scratch in my nine years in the game never grinding in instanced content. The number of times I have had a high-level character disrupt my play could be counted on less than one hand. This is simply not the large problem that some people try and make it out to be.

Honestly, same. I've seen it a bit more frequently than that but it is simply not at all common to see someone grinding in Overland. I do occasionally see it during events or in public dungeons but it's not everywhere and all the time.

Also they already solved the issue with loot this causes by giving us each our own loot pulls. Kill stealing is not a thing in this game. That's an issue that the devs already solved.

shadoza · August 13

A few lines of feedback for the Devs:

Is it possible to remove the trespass flag when one is not involved in a quest?

Will you increase the drop rate of Nirncrux resource since it is being farmed heavily, they don't seem to be available to find for players who are playing the game.

Can we have a few more slots on the ignore list and/or the ability to set a time out on an ignore entry? A few players were having an offensive conversation. Someone asked if they would take it to a private chat and was met with insults and aggression. I am sure they are not bad people, but it would be helpful if we could just ignore them for a day so we can continue to use the chat without being subjected to something that is offensive to us but not to others.

If something or someone (foe) is needed for a quest, please place the items in a way that only the questing player can see or pick them up. (Like the psijic nodes maybe?) This way the players that are farming will not interfere with the progress of those that are questing.

While I was playing in Auridon, someone who is not a player of your game was watching for a moment. They commented that the game was 'beautiful.' That was the term they used. It is beautiful in many areas. Is it possible to make a crafting tool that allows us to capture an image and turn it into a panting? I think that would be fun. Maybe make it a part of the woodworking table since paints often have wooden frames.

spartaxoxo · August 14

shadoza wrote: »

While I was playing in Auridon, someone who is not a player of your game was watching for a moment. They commented that the game was 'beautiful.' That was the term they used. It is beautiful in many areas. Is it possible to make a crafting tool that allows us to capture an image and turn it into a panting? I think that would be fun. Maybe make it a part of the woodworking table since paints often have wooden frames.

That's such a good idea!

shadoza · August 14

I own many of the DLCs. When I am in a town with starter hubs, it is difficult to tell which are starts and which are local map related. If the DLC starters arrows were a different color, it would be more convenient. The major cities have a lot of quest markers, I little more color coding should help.

Broccolix · August 15

I am sorry if I come across negative negative in this post, but I wouldn't make a forum account just to comment on this very issue if I didn't think the game didn't had many strong points as well, however the point of difficulty is the number 1 issue as far as I, and many others are concerned. I've read through about 30-40 pages of this discussion, and there are many good points but also many disingenuous arguments. I am what could be characterized as a "new player", I've owned the game since 2017 and have tried many times to get into it, but the farthest I've come is lvl 48. I have introduced several friends to the game as well a long time ago, and they also bounced off the game once unlocking the dungeon finder and realizing that there is simply no challenge to be had. This whole thread is essentially anecdotes against anecdotes, but I would love to see the official stats, because I have a feeling most people quit during the first 10 levels, or shortly after engaging a bit with the dungeon finder.

Saying this game is easy is a massive understatement, I have played games for a long time and never have I played a game where the lack of difficulty was such an obvious issue. I would be willing to bet my life savings that this game has lost at the least tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of potential players, because the game insists that you don't have to engage with it's mechanics in any way. Expecting the average player to have to slog through 100 hours of content before being presented with a challenge or having to engage with CORE mechanics is NOT reasonable, and I think many here vastly underrate the skill level of the average gamer if they think this is a good introduction to the game.

There are entire solar systems between the difficulty of this game and Dark Souls, so fearing that the game will suddenly become too hardcore I find disingenuous. Even other TES games like Skyrim or Oblivion are 10 times harder than this game. The fear that it will simply take longer to get rewards, I also find odd. You don't judge the quality of video game by the frequency and ease of which a player receives rewards, it's not a slot machine, it's a video game and video games are supposed to be engaging.

The point made by the opposers I sympathise the most with is the accessibility issue, I really do understand that if you already find the game difficult because of age or disabilities that a difficulty increase is concerning, but unfortunately I also think that if a game has skills, blocks, dodges ect. it is reasonable that the game is balanced around utilizing these, I know it sounds harsh, but at the end of the day it is an ARPG. Luckily it seems vet overland is going to be opt in as to not make things more difficult for these players.

I would love to get back into this game, and buy it for my friends so we could play it together, but as it stands this game is so mind numbingly easy making core mechanics of the game irrelevant, and making progression feel unrewarding as you basically steamroll everything by level 1, so you never feel any need to get stronger. All of it becomes meaningless, it essentially makes all the core content of the game wasted content, because many of the bosses ect have abilities that never end up mattering which makes one wonder why they were implemented in the first place. I would love for ZoS to make a vet server, with difficulty more appropriate for the average gamer, because I can say confidently that the way this game is balanced currently is not for us.

Erickson9610 · August 15

Mortam wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Mortam wrote: »

There is such an easy solution to the overland lack of challenge.
Give us a slider that effects the level scaling. The more you increase mob power, it adds to higher quality reward chance.
Put the slider to max and you need a group to do the content. (The group leader would set the difficulty for everyone)

Then the group would just need to do a little bit of damage to enemies while another person who is in a different group with the difficulty setting on the easiest setting deals the majority of the damage.

The higher quality rewards would drop for the group that did the least effort because they did some damage to enemies, but the difficulty is completely bypassed by strategically using another person to make farming high difficulty mobs trivial.

This system would require a lock-out mechanic. If you attack an enemy with custom difficulty, no other player can engage the same enemy, unless they are in your group or raid.

Then the group that has locked out the enemy can hold its aggro and lead it into groups of players who can't do anything about it.

shadoza · August 15

I do not think the game is too easy for the average player.

I started a new character. I did not apply CP to boost his power or combat abilities. I did not create the 'perfect' gear for him with my master crafter. I did not speed level him with guild mates or paid services. When you really play as if a new player, then the game is, indeed, challenging. I would put forth a challenge to those who are saying the game is too easy to try this as well; however, I think they will not do it.

I think the problem is not the level of challenge, but the level of group-related gear. If this gear was restricted to the group dungeons, we would not be having this conversation. If more challenging content was not sugar-coated with higher level gear as rewards, we would not be having this conversation. This is an issue that is self-perpetuating.

If the development of the game sees a veteran tier, those that choose that tier should be required to stay in that tier. (perhaps even account wide) If they really want a challenge, they should be wanting that challenge when playing BG, Cryodiil, dolmen, delves, events, and even if they are collecting resources. If they only want challenges sometimes, then we already have vet content.

Maybe create a 100-floor tower to test how many players actually want a challenge. Start out hard and get more challenging. No groups, no companions, no group-dungeon gear, everyone relies only on their own prowess and what the overland offers. The rewards only benefit the tower fights.

NOTE: One man's opinion, you are not required to agree. I have played the game as long as you.

Broccolix · August 15

shadoza wrote: »

I do not think the game is too easy for the average player.

I started a new character. I did not apply CP to boost his power or combat abilities. I did not create the 'perfect' gear for him with my master crafter. I did not speed level him with guild mates or paid services. When you really play as if a new player, then the game is, indeed, challenging. I would put forth a challenge to those who are saying the game is too easy to try this as well; however, I think they will not do it.
.

I am playing characters with no CP and no optimized gear or build and the game is laughably easy. I don't want to come across bad faith, but I actually don't believe you. The game is so easy that it leads me to believe that you've engineered your post such as to support not increasing the difficulty. I actually struggle to imagine anyone finding the game challenging bar disabled or people of old age. If non of these apply to you, I wonder what standard of "challenging" you are applying and what other games you play if I may ask.

Tariq9898 · August 15

Broccolix wrote: »

I am sorry if I come across negative negative in this post, but I wouldn't make a forum account just to comment on this very issue if I didn't think the game didn't had many strong points as well, however the point of difficulty is the number 1 issue as far as I, and many others are concerned. I've read through about 30-40 pages of this discussion, and there are many good points but also many disingenuous arguments. I am what could be characterized as a "new player", I've owned the game since 2017 and have tried many times to get into it, but the farthest I've come is lvl 48. I have introduced several friends to the game as well a long time ago, and they also bounced off the game once unlocking the dungeon finder and realizing that there is simply no challenge to be had. This whole thread is essentially anecdotes against anecdotes, but I would love to see the official stats, because I have a feeling most people quit during the first 10 levels, or shortly after engaging a bit with the dungeon finder.

Saying this game is easy is a massive understatement, I have played games for a long time and never have I played a game where the lack of difficulty was such an obvious issue. I would be willing to bet my life savings that this game has lost at the least tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of potential players, because the game insists that you don't have to engage with it's mechanics in any way. Expecting the average player to have to slog through 100 hours of content before being presented with a challenge or having to engage with CORE mechanics is NOT reasonable, and I think many here vastly underrate the skill level of the average gamer if they think this is a good introduction to the game.

There are entire solar systems between the difficulty of this game and Dark Souls, so fearing that the game will suddenly become too hardcore I find disingenuous. Even other TES games like Skyrim or Oblivion are 10 times harder than this game. The fear that it will simply take longer to get rewards, I also find odd. You don't judge the quality of video game by the frequency and ease of which a player receives rewards, it's not a slot machine, it's a video game and video games are supposed to be engaging.

The point made by the opposers I sympathise the most with is the accessibility issue, I really do understand that if you already find the game difficult because of age or disabilities that a difficulty increase is concerning, but unfortunately I also think that if a game has skills, blocks, dodges ect. it is reasonable that the game is balanced around utilizing these, I know it sounds harsh, but at the end of the day it is an ARPG. Luckily it seems vet overland is going to be opt in as to not make things more difficult for these players.

I would love to get back into this game, and buy it for my friends so we could play it together, but as it stands this game is so mind numbingly easy making core mechanics of the game irrelevant, and making progression feel unrewarding as you basically steamroll everything by level 1, so you never feel any need to get stronger. All of it becomes meaningless, it essentially makes all the core content of the game wasted content, because many of the bosses ect have abilities that never end up mattering which makes one wonder why they were implemented in the first place. I would love for ZoS to make a vet server, with difficulty more appropriate for the average gamer, because I can say confidently that the way this game is balanced currently is not for us.

Agreed. I too, have invited friends to play this game, only to quit because they find it too easy. They don’t have any CP, they’re not wearing any full 5 piece set, and they sure as hell don’t even use up the meta or even all of their bar spaces. They don’t even know what spammables or LA weaving is.

They’re playing the game like Skyrim with the most inadequate “build” and still mowing through story bosses without even having to use the abilities they purchased.