Should there be a PvE only instance of Imperial City?

Hypertionb14_ESO · April 19

Yes.

disable Telvar drops and alliance systems. honestly its silly that this zone is stuck in 2015 story wise.

i wanna see the fruit of our efforts to free it.. same goes for ending the banner war, which happened ages, and ages ago.

Vulsahdaal · April 19

No.

darvaria wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

PvPers with honor

In 11 years I have yet to see ONE of these.

Oh there are some out there, Ive seen them. I consider myself one as well. In Cyro if I happen to find myself in a delve (extremely rare but it has happened) I leave enemy players alone. If theyre fishing, no problems, Ill pass them by. Even in objective town, as long as they avoid flags, I have a don’t attack unless attacked first policy. Even once, long ago, followed a DC at a distance behind the gate collecting a skyshard, then right back out the gate where we waved our goodbyes.

If you are who I think you are, were on the same camp, and Ill tell you Ive seen similar actions by the enemy in Cyro as well, though tbh far more often on the DC side than AD. But if youre looking through a PvPers eyes, sometimes it is difficult to see, as youre not often in the position of trying to get that shard, fish or complete a quest. However, signs of honor level are still there.

Have you ever ridden (or ran if stuck in combat) alongside the enemy to the same keep where your factions are fighting each other, neither of you attacking the other until you get there, then its go time? Or received whispers of ‘Good Fight’ or ‘Impressive 😊’ or the likes, even when they lost? Even a few nights ago, when DC was running 2 ballgroups, AD had one, and we were getting greened everywhere we tried to go it was just a very tiring and frustrating night. But it still ended on a good note for me due to 2 random DC, who I consider to have some level of honor, joining me in a dance near the fd of Ales or Glade (but I think Glade), after which I bowed and they allowed me to take my leave.

IC otoh is different, and in the place where vamps, nightblades, and vamp nightblades hunt, unfortunately honor is far more scarce, and even when it is found, its just much more grey.
An example would be, last mayhem while waiting for cyro queue, Id go to IC and basically hang around the EP sewer enter/exit area killing the same few AD and DC gankers that would hide there to kill off any questers returning to base.

My Cyro character has no interest in IC quests or Telvar, just considers those who hang around the enemy base entrance to kill PVE questers to be not so honorable (to put it mildly). However, in a discussion with one of them that I killed 3 times, (and let me know he wasn’t going to stop though he would stay out of my way), he did make one point to me.

He considered himself above those who killed questers in the districts, and explained that PVE questers were there to do quests and collect boxes/tickets, and he killing them at the base entrance did not stop or even delay them from doing any of that. They might end up losing some Telvar, but of what value is Telvar to a PVE quester anyway?

I had to admit he gave me a view I hadn’t considered, but still I couldn’t fully agree with his methods. I never did run into him again, maybe he decided I had a point as well, or maybe he just went to do his ganking at the DC entrance instead, I don’t know… but anyway, PvPers with honor do exist, sometimes its just not so clear, or very grey, but is still there if you look.

Wereswan · April 19

No.

randconfig wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

randconfig wrote: »

robwolf666 wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Disclaimer: I am not advocating removing PvP from Imperial City, only that players have the option to go into a PvE only instance.

Every time Whitestrakes Mayhem appears, you have a significant portion of the playerbase who has no interest in PvP entering Imperial City. Many of these players get killed on quest points and never come back again.
Given that this zone is rich in PvE content and quests, would it be worth giving PvErs their own instance of IC? Future updates could then really expand on this zone with more quests and encounters.
(This is going to be particularly important with Subclassing which will create a much bigger gap between experienced and new PvPers).

Cyrodiil as a whole should. I fail to see why it can't.

Because Cyrodiil is were the three-banners war is waged.... The game was literally pitched and sold on this idea, no one should be safe in these zones. Bring some friends if you're having trouble getting killed solo.

True. However, because it would be separate from the PvP Cyrodiil, it could be based, story-wise, after the war, maybe as a continuation of the main story in some way, possibly even as a continuation of whatever is going to happen in this years Solstice story.

I suppose that would be fine, but none of the quests in the current Cyrodiil should be accessible in the post-war version.

It wouldn't even make sense for them to be, they're all pretty bound up with the planemeld if memory serves.

SatanicSister · April 19

No.

As a mainly PVE very casual quester I voted no.

Imperial City is probably one of my favourite zones in ESO. It has the best main questline in this game because it's brutal and it doesn't exactly have a happy ending. I've done it a few times and every time it makes me think "Well, we won... But at what cost?". And yes, I do think that even people, who avoid PVP zones like plague, should try it.

So, if this is how I feel about IC, why do I think we shouldn't have a PVE instance of it?

Mostly because I don't see the need for it. There aren't many people in IC if there's no event. Yes, you might get killed (I was killed, I think, 5 times today while doing the dailies there, but usually I see no-one in there) but it's not that hard to climb up the ladder to a different district and do your objectives there instead. Just don't forget to bank your TelVar every time you're in the base.

Also I don't agree with the previous post, stating that PVE questers have no need for TelVar. There are plenty of style pages, some runeboxes, weekly leads, etc. that can be bought for TelVar. And if someone (like me) doesn't play The Elder Traders Online, then they can be a bit... pricey... at the guild traders. It has happened rarely, but if someone ganks me right behind the base door, I will consider them to be the lowest of the low. To me, it's as lame as bombing questers at the questgiver in Cyro (with no intention to actually flip the town) or spawn camping in some other games.

I do hope we will get to rebuild IC eventually as a different (and maybe PVE) instance, but I do hope we will not lose the one we have now.

Versalium · July 25

Yes.

I've played IC for the first time today because of Whitestrake's mayhem. I can call my experience in one word — anxiety.

I'm a solo player, I'm on a base game, I'm here for the story, quests, loot, exploration, etc.

The moment I got killed by another player was very frustrating. Just...why? Why would anyone want to kill me for no reason? I don't get it. I don't want to kill other players, I just want to mind my own business. I want to explore ruined Imperial City, I want to experience this great city under Molag Bal's occupation.

The second part of frustration that quckly transformed into stress and anxiety was losing a bunch of tel var stones. Maybe I missed something but no one told me I will lose them. I had around 7k on me that I've earned on battlegrounds and I've lost around 3k in a single death. Now I'm always anxious about losing tel vars and putting them into the bank before going outside. Who thought this would be fun? It's not.

I'm glad there is a no-CP mode, it's a bit less stressful, but I want solo/PvE mode. I just want to enjoy my game without this PvP stress and nonsense.

spartaxoxo · July 26

No.

A long time ago I thought this would be okay but now I think the queues would be split too unhealthy.

Dino-Jr · July 26

No. Im real bad at it but the feeling of going into that area is unlike anything else in the game. Its fun to have a part of the game thats challenging and unpredictable.

Rkindaleft · July 26

No.

Versalium wrote: »

I've played IC for the first time today because of Whitestrake's mayhem. I can call my experience in one word — anxiety.

I'm a solo player, I'm on a base game, I'm here for the story, quests, loot, exploration, etc.

The moment I got killed by another player was very frustrating. Just...why? Why would anyone want to kill me for no reason? I don't get it. I don't want to kill other players, I just want to mind my own business. I want to explore ruined Imperial City, I want to experience this great city under Molag Bal's occupation.

The second part of frustration that quckly transformed into stress and anxiety was losing a bunch of tel var stones. Maybe I missed something but no one told me I will lose them. I had around 7k on me that I've earned on battlegrounds and I've lost around 3k in a single death. Now I'm always anxious about losing tel vars and putting them into the bank before going outside. Who thought this would be fun? It's not.

I'm glad there is a no-CP mode, it's a bit less stressful, but I want solo/PvE mode. I just want to enjoy my game without this PvP stress and nonsense.

It's a PvP zone during a PvP event. If you want to experience the zone and the story just come back when the event is over. Imperial City is already dead outside of the event and you'll barely run into anybody especially outside of the main campaign.

You're also not "forced" to participate if you don't want to. You can just skip this event.

kargen27 · July 26

No.

Versalium wrote: »

I've played IC for the first time today because of Whitestrake's mayhem. I can call my experience in one word — anxiety.

I'm a solo player, I'm on a base game, I'm here for the story, quests, loot, exploration, etc.

The moment I got killed by another player was very frustrating. Just...why? Why would anyone want to kill me for no reason? I don't get it. I don't want to kill other players, I just want to mind my own business. I want to explore ruined Imperial City, I want to experience this great city under Molag Bal's occupation.

The second part of frustration that quckly transformed into stress and anxiety was losing a bunch of tel var stones. Maybe I missed something but no one told me I will lose them. I had around 7k on me that I've earned on battlegrounds and I've lost around 3k in a single death. Now I'm always anxious about losing tel vars and putting them into the bank before going outside. Who thought this would be fun? It's not.

I'm glad there is a no-CP mode, it's a bit less stressful, but I want solo/PvE mode. I just want to enjoy my game without this PvP stress and nonsense.

It's the chance of losing Tel-var stones that makes the zone unique and fun. I used to like grabbing 10,000 stones then drop down in the sewers as far away from home base as I could and try to get home with them.
If you want to explore Imperial City you will have better luck when there isn't an event sending players there. Unfortunately for those of us that like the fights in Imperial City outside the events it can be fairly empty.
Outside of the event there is also a better chance when you do see the enemy while questing they might leave you alone. During this event players that normally can't or wouldn't get many kills like to take advantage of all the inexperienced players by camping areas they know are quest related. It bites that they do that as it does give PvP a sour taste for those new to the experience.
Imperial City needs to stay PvP only because it is a zone unique to the game. I would like to see some changes made that brings the population back up outside of events. It can be a really fun place to PvP even if you are solo and not experienced or very good at PvP. You catch on after several deaths. Go in with no stones, don't take the deaths as any big deal and you start having fun.

AngryPenguin · July 26

No.

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Disclaimer: I am not advocating removing PvP from Imperial City, only that players have the option to go into a PvE only instance.

Every time Whitestrakes Mayhem appears, you have a significant portion of the playerbase who has no interest in PvP entering Imperial City. Many of these players get killed on quest points and never come back again.
Given that this zone is rich in PvE content and quests, would it be worth giving PvErs their own instance of IC? Future updates could then really expand on this zone with more quests and encounters.
(This is going to be particularly important with Subclassing which will create a much bigger gap between experienced and new PvPers).

Should there be a PvP version of every PvE zone?

AzuraFan · July 26

Yes.

Apparently I voted in this poll when the OP posted it in April. I don't remember what I voted then, but today I'd vote no.

I finally completed the IC questline a few days ago, and while I was killed a couple of times, who cares? It's not a big deal. In fact, sometimes I was happy because I was ready to leave, and being killed is faster than porting to Cyrodiil so I can use a wayshrine.

I also managed to queue up all the dailies before this event started, so I could turn one in every day.

Really, IC isn't a scary place. If you accept that you'll die occasionally and bank your telvar regularly (if you care about telvar - if not, no worries), it's no big deal. Most of the time, I either didn't see anyone, or nobody saw me (best to ride or sneak around while you're there). A couple of times they saw me but didn't care because they were questing too.

(the same goes for Cyrodiil, where you don't have to worry about banking anything.)

AlnilamE · July 26

No.

ADarklore wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

No, the PvE instance of IC is basically the overland. What makes IC unique is the risk of meeting an opponent in an environment that's hostile to both players. As for event objectives, I like that there's different events catered to different areas of the game, and I don't think every event should cover every single playstyle. If you want to participate in the event, you have to do the associated task. It also makes events feel different from one another.

And THIS is exactly why many many players don't go there... many of us play the game for FUN, not the stress of being killed by PvP griefers preventing us from just playing the game. I remember a few years ago trying to collect the skyshards in Cyrodiil and having to abandon a certain delve because some player was camped there attacking anyone who entered. Some griefing players camp around skyshards knowing players who don't normally PvP come there just for the skyshards.

Was this during a PvP event? Other than that, there are very few delves in Cyro where someone would waste their time camping a skyshard in order to kill players.

I suck at PvP and usually dies in IC if I encounter an enemy player that attacks me, but I manage to detach myself and don't take it personally.

And outside of PvP events, unless there is a group farming tel var, enemy players will very often leave you alone if they see you are questing.

kargen27 · July 26

No.

AngryPenguin wrote: »

moderatelyfatman wrote: »

Disclaimer: I am not advocating removing PvP from Imperial City, only that players have the option to go into a PvE only instance.

Every time Whitestrakes Mayhem appears, you have a significant portion of the playerbase who has no interest in PvP entering Imperial City. Many of these players get killed on quest points and never come back again.
Given that this zone is rich in PvE content and quests, would it be worth giving PvErs their own instance of IC? Future updates could then really expand on this zone with more quests and encounters.
(This is going to be particularly important with Subclassing which will create a much bigger gap between experienced and new PvPers).

Should there be a PvP version of every PvE zone?

No, that would be a horrible idea. Those zones are not designed for PvP. No choke points and no objectives to cause players to congregate in one area. They would be empty except for the occasional ganker hiding near a Wayshrine hoping to pick someone off. Eventually even the gankers would go away.

AtriaKhorist · July 26

Yes.

As someone who does PvP and has finished the IC story... Honestly, yes. I'd go further and say we don't really need the PvP IC anymore, as evidenced by the fact that it's basically dead outside the event.

It's a great zone and a decent story continuation that people shouldn't be soft-excluded from, and from a PvP POV it really is just griefing central. The combat experience one can get in Cyro and Battlegrounds just as well, but next to nobody enjoys being kept from killing that one boss one still needs by the same 7 people over and over during events, and if nobody is around outside of the events you don't really need to keep it PvP just for that chance at a lonesome ganker.

So yes. Remove PvP and make it PvE. Or alternatively, redesign into something less contentious, but Status Quo is wasted content.

As an addendum, Tel Var actively promoting griefing and ganking isn't helping to draw people.

Versalium · July 26

Yes.

Rkindaleft wrote: »

It's a PvP zone during a PvP event. If you want to experience the zone and the story just come back when the event is over. Imperial City is already dead outside of the event and you'll barely run into anybody especially outside of the main campaign.

You're also not "forced" to participate if you don't want to. You can just skip this event.

I simply wanted to get event tickets and do some quest while I'm there. But yeah, I guess it's better to come back after the event is over. I naivety thought other people would go there for event tickets too and not to actually kill other players for no reason. Or it will give you event tickets as well?

kargen27 wrote: »

It's the chance of losing Tel-var stones that makes the zone unique and fun. I used to like grabbing 10,000 stones then drop down in the sewers as far away from home base as I could and try to get home with them.
If you want to explore Imperial City you will have better luck when there isn't an event sending players there. Unfortunately for those of us that like the fights in Imperial City outside the events it can be fairly empty.
Outside of the event there is also a better chance when you do see the enemy while questing they might leave you alone. During this event players that normally can't or wouldn't get many kills like to take advantage of all the inexperienced players by camping areas they know are quest related. It bites that they do that as it does give PvP a sour taste for those new to the experience.
Imperial City needs to stay PvP only because it is a zone unique to the game. I would like to see some changes made that brings the population back up outside of events. It can be a really fun place to PvP even if you are solo and not experienced or very good at PvP. You catch on after several deaths. Go in with no stones, don't take the deaths as any big deal and you start having fun.

I can't agree. I don't enjoy this kind of stuff. And if other people enjoy it, then why this zone is empty outside of event? Maybe because most people actually don't enjoy it as well?

agelonestar · July 26

No.

Imperial City and Sewers are simultaneously the most fun and least utilised part of the ESO experience. Please leave it as it is.

I’d personally like to see more events or action - more reason for people to go there as it’s brilliant when it’s busy. Perhaps ZoS should consider some Battlegrounds-style weekends, or something like that.

Grizzbeorn · July 26

No.

Versalium wrote: »

The moment I got killed by another player was very frustrating. Just...why? Why would anyone want to kill me for no reason?
I don't get it.

Because you chose to enter a PvP zone.
That's all the reason anyone needs, especially when there's a PvP event active, as there is now.

You may be a solo player who only does non-PvP content, but all of that gets over-ridden as soon as you set foot in a PvP zone; just by going into the zone you made yourself fair game for what happens there (PvP).

Sarannah · July 26

Yes.

Yes! Not because I want to have the PvP IC removed, but because I miss the imperial city being an actual city to play in. Like in TES4.

Purely PvP wise, II would not miss the PvP IC if it were removed completely. But to actually remove it...Nah, we just need a fair playing field IC. IC vengeance maybe?!? The entire problem with all PvP modes in ESO, is that PvP is currently unfair, except for the 2% of the players who have a PvP build and are able to keep up with all the updates. (Note: The previous sentence alone shows why we need an accessible PvP... vengeance test1 mode everywhere!)

colossalvoids · July 26

No.

PvP and dangerous parts of the quest line makes it so special imo, that's one of my favourite lines and that's probably one of those rare cases where it actually captures my early memories of TES games despite being an MMO. It's a major part of it and making it just a usual quest chain would definitely ruin something in it.

But, I'd like one day to have a separate, post/pre war version of Imperial City and Cyrodiil as those are my favourite places in the franchise and possibilities are rich there (not sure if that's the case with current modern writing but alas), those should be absolutely different and separate zones, so all the quests, shards, books etc. which are in PvP zones would be absolutely PvP related as it is now without a leeway to circumvent the intended gameplay part which makes it special.

Mojey87 · July 26

Yes.

my opinion is that IC logic made it toxic for players to play, the concept of losing tel vars on death is kinda nonsense,
for instance in cyrodil you dont lose AP when you die so you keep going and playing for fun on the same time you dont leave empty handed.
but IC made it that every player just hostile to another even if you dont want to engage in a fight which doesnt help, not mentioning the sewer base campers those just pushing players away,

if you look every day on how many players play IC without any pvp event, basically sad on every alliance one bar only.

i suggest from ZOS to rework the mechanics and logic of IC to make it more appealing to players.

HatchetHaro · July 26

No.

Honestly, at this point, it's a skill issue. I tend to do mostly PvE when I'm in IC, and I am still able to hold my own when I am ambushed.

Join a group. With how many players are in IC for Whitestrakes, it should be very easy to find a group to tackle bosses and quests together with.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · July 26

There was no poll response for my opinion. My response is I don't care one way or another.

I use to go after the Imperial City event tickets when the White-Gold tower dungeon handed them out but it also has other incentives to make running the dungeon worthwhile. Since its removal from the event it isn't worth my time for the single ticket to go into Imperial City itself. I'm not sure a PvE Imperial City would change that for me. As a result I go into Cyrodiil for its two tickets and call it a day.

aslan06 · July 26

Eh, maybe if they decide to make a dlc that sets in Imperial city after its liberated from daedra. Same goes for whole of central cyrodiil really.

ApoAlaia · July 26

No.

I personally don't see a point of a PvE IC.

What I would change is increase the 'threat level' of PvE NPCs an order of magnitude, to the point that they were equivalent to (modern, RG and onwards) vet trial NPCs.

That way players that are fully geared to PvP would be at a disadvantage against these kind of encounters.

As the zone is designed, competent and appropriately geared PvP players always have the upper hand regardless of the nature of the encounter and when something even remotely PvE related poses even the slightest threat (like the tri-focus or the WW of yore for instance) it gets 'retooled' which is a bit meh.

Make players choose. You want to PvP? awesome, but you better get a picnic if you want to kill bosses as well because is gonna take you a few hours.

Imperial_Archmage · July 26

Yes.

MiathTheRed wrote: »

Absolutely not. While IC is the same six or seven people without an event going who ruthlessly hunt down anyone who dares intrude upon their space, it is fundamentally a part of the pvp experience.

This is such an ignorant comment. That’s like saying hazing is a part of the college experience and should be kept even though people die as a result. PvP players who take joy in preying on PvE players who are very obliviously only there for quest objectives and don’t even try to fight back are ghouls, pure and simple. This is what I imagine kids who pull the wings from bugs and torture other small animals for “fun” grow up to become.

Versalium · July 26

Yes.

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Versalium wrote: »

The moment I got killed by another player was very frustrating. Just...why? Why would anyone want to kill me for no reason?
I don't get it.

Because you chose to enter a PvP zone.
That's all the reason anyone needs, especially when there's a PvP event active, as there is now.

You may be a solo player who only does non-PvP content, but all of that gets over-ridden as soon as you set foot in a PvP zone; just by going into the zone you made yourself fair game for what happens there (PvP).

And that's why there should be a PvE mode, to avoid this issue.

Major_Mangle · July 26

No.

If I could vote no twice I would. Not everything needs to be a "sandbox, fields of greens and roses" where you never have to step outside your comfort zone. People act like going IC is some war trauma that causes PTSD. Just play during off hours and the chances of you seeing someone is gonna be in the lower single digit lol.

valenwood_vegan · July 26

No.

No, not anymore than there should be pvp instances of every other zone in the game. With a game this big, every aspect of the game does not have to be catered to every player. There's not even much pve stuff to do in IC. I got the quest there done at a quiet time and never encountered another player. IC itself could use some work as it's not a popular zone, but that's a different issue than making a special safe pve version of one of the only pvp activities the game even has.

On the other hand... I think they might benefit from reusing the map and assets to create a new pve zone, unrelated to the current pvp zone. Perhaps an "after the war" type thing with a new questline. Since their development resources seem more limited, reusing a map, especially one so nostalgic and loved by TES fans, could be a good way to give us new content without stretching resources.

Arrodisia · July 26

No.

I have PvP and PvE geared characters.

If I bring one of my PvE characters to IC to do something PvE related, I fully expect a thrashing and interruptions. It's a digital death. It's really not that serious...laugh it off and continue your thing.

SkaiFaith · July 26

Yes.

The issue is always players' attitude. 2 very different examples:

During Pan-Tamriel I was able to get IC Angler fishing with players from other alliances - good attitude.

During this Mayhem I got the Horror of Horrors achievement. Even for a single IC boss I had to jump between the four campaigns because every time I'd have taken the boss to 10% health the same players would run crashing me, yes, even on different campaigns - not good attitude.

And before someone says "PvP, innit?" No, even in PvP sports exists the concept of fair play. Preying behind a solo player that is not even willing to fight you and does everything in his power to avoid you, and following him in group wherever he goes to take advantage is not fair play, nothing to be proud of.

If it wasn't for this kind of players, I would personally be against the idea of a dedicated PvE instance, but since it's impossible to teach how to behave to players, I'm very much in favor: wanna PvP? Fight PvPers fairly. I can honestly enjoy if you smash me in a duel, I'll give you "GG" in an awe. Unfair game? I won't have a positive opinion about you.