ESO Fight Autopsy: Invasion vs. Bolt Escape
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ForTheRealm✭✭✭First of all this is a very good fight - both players showed they know what they do. I especially salute to the Sorc that fought till the end.
However my personal experience fighting 1v1 Sorc are: most of them fight for a couple of seconds, and they stay if they have advantage, or just run away if they are loosing. I have never experienced fighting 1v1 Sorc who fights till the end if he is not sure if he is going to win.2 -
Hearts✭✭✭@Kraigan
Ya but what you fail to realize is that diversity in play styles is a GOOD thing.
Is it OP that a DK can sit behind his shield and pop Green Dragon's Blood to keep himself alive? Is is OP that a Templar with Channeling Focus and Lingering Ritual can be unkillable? Is it OP that a Night Blade can stay invisible for minutes at a time and walk around in the middle of an enemy zerg? I'm also a bit of an altaholic and I play these styles as well. Right now my alts are all fairly low level, but throughout Beta I tried many styles and many builds. Before long, I'll have a VR character of each class representing multiple play styles.
In case you haven't realized yet by the way, YOUR views are in the tiny minority. Someone did a poll and about 60% of respondents thought the skill was fine. Considering all the whining on this forum, I bet the percentage is MUCH larger in the general non-forum player base. Brian Wheeler also said that while they're looking at the skill, he doesn't see the problem.
By contrast there's about 5 people who seem to have a real issue with it. One of those has since admitted he was wrong and started calling me NordJitsu-san, since my advice has apparently helped him counter it.
The OP of this thread, one of the biggest QQ'ers, has apparently figured out how to counter it despite claiming its not possible. Say what you want (because lying is fun?) that Sorc was trying to get away. The only reason he turned was that he realized the Shield Charge could effectively prevent him from doing so. He had no idea that OP was out of stamina.
You said it perfectly :P That Sorcerer was definitely one of the people he calls "chicken ***". Hell, from what we know, the sorcerer could have seen his teammate come up (or maybe he was in party) and decided to 2v1 OP..
The OP is basically over-analyzing the fight.0 -
ForTheRealm✭✭✭@Raggok
I have a similar problem. A lot of DKs are using Reflective Scales to reflect things at me.
Reflective Scales work only against spell projectiles. So when I see DK using scales, I usually go for Bow instead of a spell, but that is not a solution for every spec.Edited by ForTheRealm on May 15, 2014 11:27AM0 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Armitas
You're doing that selective quoting thing again. That was not a serious argument. It was a cute sarcastic remark at the beginning of a rather long post that made the actual argument. Its an attention grabber and a topic setter.
I guess my expectation of a reasoned response from you in that post was undue. I will now read your post from the expectation that you are being sarcastic and making comments to grab attention to yourself.
However if it was simply attention grabbing then why did you further defend the case by saying.
Sorry, is the ability named "Bolt Kite" or "Bolt Battle Positioning"????
Seems clear to me that putting the word "escape" in there makes it clear that escape is one of the intended functions.
That second statement is an affirmative statement by using semantics. So is this more sarcasm and attention grabbing or an actual semantic argument? You seem quick to complain over being misquoted but whenever I expand the quote it only makes it that much more evident.
Your second argument in the referred to post commits the fallacy of conflation. That Game x has skill x does not necessarily make this game with skill x balanced.
Edited by Armitas on May 15, 2014 1:10PMRetired.
Nord mDK0 -
ruzlb16_ESO✭✭✭The 'nerf' side of this argument seem to believe that the sorc can also see his opponents resource pools, and thus can tell whether he's worn the enemy's stamina down. I can pretty much assure you we can't.
They also appear to believe that a sorc casting BE 8 times in a row without bothering to lob a single damage ability at his opponent is trying to engage. This is pretty much also just rubbish.
Let's just get a second opinion here. What we have is a sorc who has BE, Crystal shard, MF, and Velocitous curse on his main skill bar, plus probably Dark Exchange (tho he may have switched bars for that). He also has some kind of damage shield, tho I think that's probably from gear rather than an active skill.
Two of these are instant-cast damage abilities - and if I was kiting someone, you can bet I'd be keeping Curse up on them fairly constantly. Why just grind down your enemy's stam when you could be hitting him for 100DPS at the same time? But our sorc doesn't. He casts nothing but BE for the first half of the fight. He is, quite simply, running away.
This isn't really surprising, since when you initially engage him he's on his horse facing in the wrong direction and presumably running to catch up with his group... or just out skysharding. He wasn't looking for a fight, and when he was dragged into one, he starts trying to make a run for it. And he really does try. He casts BE 8 times in a row before he fires ANYTHING at you. That's his full majicka bar plus biting into a pot or getting a set bonus (even with food, you don't get 3k health by going 49/0/0). This is not a sorc trying to 'wear you down' by casting 1.8k majicka's worth of running away skills (he's essentially burned a majicka bar to softcap with that), unless he is a uniquely bad player who believes going into a fight with ~20% of his main resource and a regen debuff is a good plan.
What happened here is, as I said before, a sorc tries to run away with BE and fails to do so due to the skillful play of his opponent. He does not arbitrarily 'decide to stay and fight', and that is not the reason you beat him. He is not keeping tabs on your stamina in order to check when you're low on resources - because he has no idea of your build or how much stam you have, or how much stam regen. You countered a BE sorc trying to escape, and so have provided the exact proof that BE can be countered. Your entire argument to the contrary rests on the assumption that the sorc didn't want to get away, which is so debatable that it isn't particularly credible.
Once again, what BE DOES highlight is that majicka builds are more powerful than stam builds. The reason people are struggling to catch running sorcs so much is simply that no-one runs a heavy stam build (because it basically means throwing away your class trees), and the universally-available counters are ALL stamina based (plus, NB's class-based counters fail to fire ~30% of the time - but the number of things broken about NB atm is a whole other kettle of fish). This is a genuinely valid problem, and one that should be addressed - stamina needs to be of equal value to majicka, or needs to be given a higher soft cap and a lower item budget value (probably the latter, since it's used for dodge and rolls while majicka is just for abilities). Nerfing BE will simply lead to the next majicka skill with stam counters becoming the target for nerf threads, and then the next one, and then the next. I'd instead propose that ZOS do the sensible thing and convert suitable class skills to Stam - like one Templar tree, two DK ones and all three NB trees. This would also indirectly buff the lackluster Medium Armour tree and make it viable too.
Let's stop complaining about symptoms and find the real problem?Edited by ruzlb16_ESO on May 15, 2014 1:19PM1 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If anyone wants to say this video shows that BE is balanced they must first make a case that this single sorcerer is a valid representative by intent and capacity of the sorcerer class.
To say this one death scene shows that the BE is balanced in all it's capacities is what they call "cherry picking".Edited by Armitas on May 15, 2014 1:19PMRetired.
Nord mDK0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Armitas
To be 100% clear, yes I believe that the name helps to show the intention of the skill (though the one cherry picked sentence was clearly just for fun), but the mechanics of the skill show that fairly well on their own. Any time a developer puts a skill like that in the game, which quickly increases your speed, without a target requirement, its clearly intended to be used as an escape and/or travel mechanism. These guys aren't dumb and it isn't their first radio.
That's one reason the GW2 analogy is apt. The Warrior was given many abilities that quickly increased its speed without a target limit. The developers did not seem nearly as surprised as the players that people were using these skills to quickly engage and disengage from fights. Even though there wasn't an ability called "Blade Escape" or "Great Sword Escape" it appeared to be an intended feature.
Like the Sorcerer, the Great Sword Warrior was capable of putting out high damage over a short duration of time but was relatively squishy. Like the Sorcerer, this squishiness was made up for with mobility.
This is hardly an uncommon theme in MMOs, which is why I'm forced to question the experience of the QQ'ers on this issue.0 -
ruzlb16_ESO✭✭✭If anyone wants to say this video shows that BE is balanced they must first make a case that this single sorcerer is a valid representative by intent and capacity of the sorcerer class.
To say this one death scene shows that the BE is balanced in all it's capacities is what they call "cherry picking".
I don't think anyone is saying that. What the OP is saying is that it shows BE isn't balanced, which is equally incorrect (doubly so given that he kills the sorc, and triply so due to his reasoning relying on him being capable of discerning the sorc's intentions through some kind of telepathy).0 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Armitas
To be 100% clear, yes I believe that the name helps to show the intention of the skill (though the one cherry picked sentence was clearly just for fun), but the mechanics of the skill show that fairly well on their own. Any time a developer puts a skill like that in the game, which quickly increases your speed, without a target requirement, its clearly intended to be used as an escape and/or travel mechanism. These guys aren't dumb and it isn't their first radio.
That's one reason the GW2 analogy is apt. The Warrior was given many abilities that quickly increased its speed without a target limit. The developers did not seem nearly as surprised as the players that people were using these skills to quickly engage and disengage from fights. Even though there wasn't an ability called "Blade Escape" or "Great Sword Escape" it appeared to be an intended feature.
Like the Sorcerer, the Great Sword Warrior was capable of putting out high damage over a short duration of time but was relatively squishy. Like the Sorcerer, this squishiness was made up for with mobility.
This is hardly an uncommon theme in MMOs, which is why I'm forced to question the experience of the QQ'ers on this issue.
Ok great, so it wasn't just a an attempt at attention grabbing and sarcasm but an actual semantic case? Are you being sincere now or were you being sincere then?
Sprint also increases your speed. Maneuver increases your speed. Racials and mundus stones also increase your speed. Neither require a target. That a skill gives you the potential to escape does not mean that it is intended to give you the certainty of escape. It is non sequitur to say that because a skill quickly increases your speed without a target requirement then the intention of that skill is certain escape because it also follows that those same caveats can come without certain escape.
Neither does it follow that a developers intention makes something balanced. The cases for that are readily evident in any game.
Edited by Armitas on May 15, 2014 1:34PMRetired.
Nord mDK0 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ruzlb16_ESO wrote: »If anyone wants to say this video shows that BE is balanced they must first make a case that this single sorcerer is a valid representative by intent and capacity of the sorcerer class.
To say this one death scene shows that the BE is balanced in all it's capacities is what they call "cherry picking".
I don't think anyone is saying that. What the OP is saying is that it shows BE isn't balanced, which is equally incorrect (doubly so given that he kills the sorc, and triply so due to his reasoning relying on him being capable of discerning the sorc's intentions through some kind of telepathy).
The intent of the video, as I understand it, is to show invasion in reference to bolt escape. He mentions that it is imbalanced but the video, or situation in the video, makes no intrinsic reference to bolt escape used for actual fleeing or harassing. The name of the video is Autopsy: Invasion vs bolt escape for crying out loud. I think it's pretty obvious what it intends to show.
My understanding is that the OP believes it is balanced for actual fights, just not for bailing on PvP. Is this not the case?
Edited by Armitas on May 15, 2014 1:51PMRetired.
Nord mDK0 -
ruzlb16_ESO✭✭✭My understanding is that the OP believes it is balanced for actual fights, just not for bailing on PvP. Is this not the case?
Yes, that's the case. However, that's merely because his interpretation of the sorc's actions here is flatly wrong.
The case he's making relies on the assumption that the sorc isn't trying to escape this fight. This is easily contestable, given that it most definitely looks like the sorc is making a run for it when you actually watch the video - the OP has chased down and killed a sorc trying to run away via Bolt Escape.
Essentially, the OP has won a fight, and then had to manufacture a reason for him winning given that his opponent was using a skill that he believes is overpowered for the precise use that the sorc is employing. Hence, he declares that the sorc is merely using it for positioning, and that his intention is to fight - despite the sorc not actually doing any fighting for the initial 40 seconds. He is making a blind assumption by declaring that he knows the sorcerer wants to fight eventually, even when he spends the first half of the fight trying to avoid doing so and making no attempt to engage until reinforcements arrive. Instead, we must take the leap of faith that the sorc is simply trying to run the opponent's stamina down, at te expense of nearly all his majicka (so much of it used on BE that he cannot even afford MF by the end, and must use Dark Exchange).
Hence, if the video is intended to show that BE is balanced when used for fighting but not for running away, that isn't what it's actually showing if the Sorc isn't looking to fight anyway. It's showing BE being used to run away, and the sorc failing to do so. So if it was balanced for fighting due to the closers shown in the video, and the sorc was actually fleeing, it shows that those closers work just as well to prevent running away.
This is like the fifth or sixth video someone has posted showing how to stop BE being used to escape... and the OP didn't actually realize that's what he was posting. It's funny how no matter how many of these vids get posted, they don't count unless they strengthen the 'it's OP' side. The easy example vids are 'staged'; the in-combat ones are 'the sorc wasn't very good' or 'the sorc wasn't using BE that way, he was using it in the acceptable way'. It's exactly what we saw as responses to the vamp vid - there was always some reason why it worked here but which was completely invalid for general use. By next week, everyone will have figured out the counters for it and every group will have 2-3 people using high mobility builds to chase down other high-mobility builds, and there'll be a new nerf target, and there'll be videos showing how to counter it, and there'll be people sat yelling about how those aren't valid for general use too.1 -
prana33b14_ESO✭✭✭Yeah I actually watched the video finally. Sure looks to me like he is running like a chicken with his head cut off until he sees teammate who he thinks will help so he turns and fights. That is when he doubles back towards that guy coming up to the fight.Edited by prana33b14_ESO on May 15, 2014 2:28PM0 -
Mykah✭✭✭@Armitas
To be 100% clear, yes I believe that the name helps to show the intention of the skill (though the one cherry picked sentence was clearly just for fun), but the mechanics of the skill show that fairly well on their own. Any time a developer puts a skill like that in the game, which quickly increases your speed, without a target requirement, its clearly intended to be used as an escape and/or travel mechanism. These guys aren't dumb and it isn't their first radio.
That's one reason the GW2 analogy is apt. The Warrior was given many abilities that quickly increased its speed without a target limit. The developers did not seem nearly as surprised as the players that people were using these skills to quickly engage and disengage from fights. Even though there wasn't an ability called "Blade Escape" or "Great Sword Escape" it appeared to be an intended feature.
Like the Sorcerer, the Great Sword Warrior was capable of putting out high damage over a short duration of time but was relatively squishy. Like the Sorcerer, this squishiness was made up for with mobility.
This is hardly an uncommon theme in MMOs, which is why I'm forced to question the experience of the QQ'ers on this issue.
If BE is an escape mechanism, lets put a -70% to magic damage done debuff on it for 60 seconds after its cast, that way sorcs can't use it to chase down and dps every other class in the game.1 -
Niffo✭✭✭ruzlb16_ESO wrote: »
Yes, that's the case. However, that's merely because his interpretation of the sorc's actions here is flatly wrong.
The case he's making relies on the assumption that the sorc isn't trying to escape this fight. This is easily contestable, given that it most definitely looks like the sorc is making a run for it when you actually watch the video - the OP has chased down and killed a sorc trying to run away via Bolt Escape.
Essentially, the OP has won a fight, and then had to manufacture a reason for him winning given that his opponent was using a skill that he believes is overpowered for the precise use that the sorc is employing. Hence, he declares that the sorc is merely using it for positioning, and that his intention is to fight - despite the sorc not actually doing any fighting for the initial 40 seconds. He is making a blind assumption by declaring that he knows the sorcerer wants to fight eventually, even when he spends the first half of the fight trying to avoid doing so and making no attempt to engage until reinforcements arrive. Instead, we must take the leap of faith that the sorc is simply trying to run the opponent's stamina down, at te expense of nearly all his majicka (so much of it used on BE that he cannot even afford MF by the end, and must use Dark Exchange).
Hence, if the video is intended to show that BE is balanced when used for fighting but not for running away, that isn't what it's actually showing if the Sorc isn't looking to fight anyway. It's showing BE being used to run away, and the sorc failing to do so. So if it was balanced for fighting due to the closers shown in the video, and the sorc was actually fleeing, it shows that those closers work just as well to prevent running away.
This is like the fifth or sixth video someone has posted showing how to stop BE being used to escape... and the OP didn't actually realize that's what he was posting. It's funny how no matter how many of these vids get posted, they don't count unless they strengthen the 'it's OP' side. The easy example vids are 'staged'; the in-combat ones are 'the sorc wasn't very good' or 'the sorc wasn't using BE that way, he was using it in the acceptable way'. It's exactly what we saw as responses to the vamp vid - there was always some reason why it worked here but which was completely invalid for general use. By next week, everyone will have figured out the counters for it and every group will have 2-3 people using high mobility builds to chase down other high-mobility builds, and there'll be a new nerf target, and there'll be videos showing how to counter it, and there'll be people sat yelling about how those aren't valid for general use too.
So every group will have a bunch of Bolt Escape Sorcerers since that is the only high mobility build in the game? All the video has shown is Sorcerers can only be caught if they allow themselves to, that Sorcerer had more than enough magicka for at least 3-4 more Bolt Escapes, but instead decided to engage. He could have put more distance between them and use Dark Exchange to restore his health/magicka.
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prana33b14_ESO✭✭✭LOL. How can he have used dark exchange? It's a channel that floats you up in the air while it channels. The guy was on his ass bashing him as it was and he still lost when it became 2v1. Do you understand how the mechanics of dark exchange works?0
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Raggok✭✭ruzlb16_ESO wrote: »He also has some kind of damage shield, tho I think that's probably from gear rather than an active skill.
It's Hardened Ward which is a sorcerer ability morph. It is actually named in the Combat Log Statistics window on the bottom left.
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Raggok✭✭prana33b14_ESO wrote: »LOL. How can he have used dark exchange? It's a channel that floats you up in the air while it channels. The guy was on his ass bashing him as it was and he still lost when it became 2v1. Do you understand how the mechanics of dark exchange works?
He could have used it if he had chosen to gain more ground to protect it's cast.
He also knew that I was out of stamina when I stopped using invasion on him and had to waddle over to him. At a few times he actually TURNS TOWARD ME to see if an invasion is coming. He blocks it and BEs again and TURNS TOWARD ME to see if I'm using it again.
He knows that I am low on stamina when I no longer use invasion to close the gap. This is OBVIOUS, but you people are so emotionally invested in having your escape that you are either too self-deluded or dishonest to see it.
If his only intention was to run away then why would he turn to face me at any point in this fight? That's right, HE WOULDN'T.1 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ruzlb16_ESO wrote: »My understanding is that the OP believes it is balanced for actual fights, just not for bailing on PvP. Is this not the case?
Yes, that's the case. However, that's merely because his interpretation of the sorc's actions here is flatly wrong.
The case he's making relies on the assumption that the sorc isn't trying to escape this fight. This is easily contestable, given that it most definitely looks like the sorc is making a run for it when you actually watch the video - the OP has chased down and killed a sorc trying to run away via Bolt Escape.
If what you say is true, and the OPs interpretation is incorrect, it doesn't make your interpretation right. It's not a dichotomy. It could also be the case that he ran in the beginning and changed his mind at the end. Which if true does not represent a case of BE being successfully countered.
So even if the OP killed a sorc that "may have" tried to run away but then clearly changed his mind, the attempt at running away was incomplete by the sorcs own volition. As such it does not show that BE is counterable in a fleeing situation. Nor does this video show that the sorc is the best representative of the sorc class in regards to fleeing.
The dojo video fails to show a successful counter as well because it has the sorc stopping after running out of magic. However the sorc has a multitude of options because he still has a full stamina bar, unlike the other guy. He could sprint, he could use maneuver, he could stealth, or even use equilibrium.
The dojo video is accurate up to the point where they try to address BE where it is broken.Edited by Armitas on May 15, 2014 3:31PMRetired.
Nord mDK0 -
ruzlb16_ESO✭✭✭He could have used it if he had chosen to gain more ground to protect it's cast.
He also knew that I was out of stamina when I stopped using invasion on him and had to waddle over to him. At a few times he actually TURNS TOWARD ME to see if an invasion is coming. He blocks it and BEs again and TURNS TOWARD ME to see if I'm using it again.
He knows that I am low on stamina when I no longer use invasion to close the gap. This is OBVIOUS, but you people are so emotionally invested in having your escape that you are either too self-deluded or dishonest to see it.
If his only intention was to run away then why would he turn to face me at any point in this fight? That's right, HE WOULDN'T.
He'd turn to face you to see what you're doing. That's a non-starter frankly. I often look at people without engaging them, particularly if they attack me from behind using a gap-closing skill with a stun attached to it that I need to block if I want to get away... This, incidentally, is OBVIOUS too, unless you're too emotionally invested in an argument that requires the sorc to want to fight you to make sense :P
As for 'knowing you're low on stamina when you stop using invasion to close the gap'... yet you say he isn't low on majicka when he stops chaining BE to increase them gap. Why is the one case 'obvious' and the other case not? All his ranged skills - MF, Curse and shard - have a range of 2 bolts away. yet he's not getting 2 bolts away from when your stam is out. He's getting one and then spamming his cheapest attack on you.
Your argument entirely hinges on your assumption of the sorc's intentions being right, but the evidence for you being correct is basically a 'best guess'. Barring the sorc himself actually telling us exactly his intentions at that moment, any argument built around 'his intentions' is entirely hypothetical.
All we have is evidence of you repeatedly countering Bolt Escape. That's what the video shows. This means the video shows bolt escape can be countered - not 'as long as the sorc agrees to be countered', because we have no evidence other than your interpretation of his actions to what the sorc was actually hoping to do (and because the idea that he's decided to use a gap creator 8 times in a row in order to use up your gap closer skills is objectively absurd).
If he's hoping to escape, then the vid shows how to prevent a sorc escaping (which it does, in my opinion). If he was attempting not to escape, then it shows a very bad sorc burning away nearly all his mana on an ability that did no damage to you, in order to burn down your stamina bar, having no effect on the majicka bar which is most players primary attack and healing resource.
Let's just repeat that bit for emphasis here: Your argument relies on this sorc deciding to use up his entire main damage output resource in order to use up your ancillary damage output resource. We know this guy is a staff-wielding sorc, so he has absolutely no stam-based damage output. So you are saying that he is completely disarming himself, while leaving you with your full complement of class skills and a full mana bar, and that he is doing this in order to fight you. It's a bit like declaring war on your next door neighbour and using all your ammunition to shoot up his car.
If the sorc was trying to use BE aggressively here, he was a bad player who ended up using it way to much and left himself so low on mana that he didn't really have anything to hurt you with left - it requires that we think the sorc is an idiot, really. If he was using it to escape, then you caught up with him and showed that BE is not a get-out-of-jail-free card and that a skillful player can catch up with a sorc casting it 8 times in a row, and doesn't leave us assuming the sorc was stupid enough to start a fight by firing off nearly 2k mana before using any damage abilities.1 -
Raggok✭✭ruzlb16_ESO wrote: »He'd turn to face you to see what you're doing. That's a non-starter frankly.
You are right. It's not a starter. It is an ender. As in end of conversation. When he stops and turns to face me after doing three BEs in a row this demonstrates that he is not trying to escape the fight completely.
If he was just trying to run away why would he stop and turn. Stop being so dishonest. What he was doing was trying to gauge my stamina. He was waiting to see if I had enough stamina left to keep on using invasion. I did and he BLOCKED it, because that is exactly what he was looking for.
You don't have to stop and turn to see what someone is doing behind you. You use mouselook.
And, of course he is spamming BE at the start of the fight to get away from me because he KNOWS I have full stamina. What are his choice if he wants to fight? Go toe to toe with me and lose horribly or kite me with BE until I no longer have stamina to close the gap.
You people are unbelievable. Zero respect for truth. Totally self-absorbed.
Edited by Raggok on May 15, 2014 4:42PM2 -
Mykah✭✭✭Raggok I really appreciate your video and subsequent posts, thanks for helping to demonstrate the balance issue.0
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ruzlb16_ESO✭✭✭Seriously, you're running with the idea that he blocked an ability because he was trying to gauge your stamina now? He turns round and blocks a stun not because he has to prevent himself from being stunned, but because he wanted you to try and stun him. Yes, he clearly has you right where he wants you.
Your logic is completely insane, dude. Like, completely. He continuously runs away from you without attacking because he's trying to engage you. He blocks stuns in order to monitor your stamina outlay rather than to, I don't know, avoid being stunned. He uses up all his attack resources to drain half of yours in order to give himself an advantage in a fight. And you then say I'm the one being dishonest and biased here? You're attributing increasingly deranged behaviour to this sorc in order for him to fit into the scenario you've constructed.
There's little point continuing the discussion, since you've pretty much decided that you know exactly what the sorc was trying to do, that he was a supremely skilled player who simultaneously made a series of terrible tactical decisions, and that successfully countering BE is only possible if the sorc effectively decides to let you catch him. It is preposterous, and if you can't see that it's preposterous now I doubt I'd be able to convince you. So I'll just say it was a good vid, and you played well, and in my opinion THAT is why you beat him - nothing to do with the sorc electing to engage you or deciding not to use his ability to escape.2 -
beravinprb19_ESO✭✭✭Ehh? It becomes pretty clear that he is out of stamina when he starts walking face first into the Sorcerer while said Sorcerer is channeling. That is enough of a reason to suggest that this Sorcerer was waiting for him to run out of stamina before picking a fight.
Regardless, facts remain. He had enough magicka left to cast spells when the chaser was out of stamina. If the Sorcerer had continued bolting instead, then he would have escaped without an issue. The chaser did not "counter" Bolt Escape in the slightest...Edited by beravinprb19_ESO on May 15, 2014 5:17PM0 -
prana33b14_ESO✭✭✭I'm leaning way more towards he was someone from his faction and decided to take a stand hoping a 2v1 would keep him alive. YOU STILL KILLED HIM.0
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beravinprb19_ESO✭✭✭
It was clear he had enough magicka left to throw spells at the chaser, so if this is the case, what was stopping him from bolting to his ally and turning the tables on him?prana33b14_ESO wrote: »I'm leaning way more towards he was someone from his faction and decided to take a stand hoping a 2v1 would keep him alive. YOU STILL KILLED HIM.Edited by beravinprb19_ESO on May 15, 2014 5:35PM0 -
XILoKoIX✭✭ITT: Obliviousness to the counters and techniques of the OP to counter said Overpowered BE skill.
Edited by ZOS_SilviaS on May 15, 2014 9:14PM0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cheatingdeath23 wrote: »@NordJitu
1st video - Most of those points are void except the one with speed increase.
2nd video - Sorc could of got away twice so that's voided as well.
I thought the videos were interesting.
Short summary:
If close to the mage, use a charge attack when they try to bolt escape
If at more range, use the javelin to stun mages during bolt escape
If the mage gets two bolts away, do not pursue unless you are an archer and have hasty retreat.
@Cheatingdeath23
Pretty solid summary. Any ranged knock down will work though, doesn't have to be Javelin. And most of the charges have a 22m range, so you don't even really have to be that close.
Bow > Bolt
As soon as your in range popping them with a Draining Shot will travel all the way to their Bolt location and stun them there. Bombard will cut down in their running while regening. Then you just keep nagging them with basic attacks until they flop over and die. Medium armor + Bow is hard for anyone to get away from... and I use speed pots too...
I enjoy the chase. It's a race that if I win I get alliance points. Not built for speed? Well why the hell are you mad about losing the race? A CAT Bulldozer isn't going to beat a Buggatti Veyron...but it'll jack one up pretty good if it's parked though.
Had to share. Great analogy.1