ESO Fight Autopsy: Invasion vs. Bolt Escape

Armitas

I enjoy the chase. It's a race that if I win I get alliance points. Not built for speed? Well why the hell are you mad about losing the race? A CAT Bulldozer isn't going to beat a Buggatti Veyron...but it'll jack one up pretty good if it's parked though.

It's a specious analogy. Armor types are not tied to classes, they are external to class types. It is also the case that a sorc can move like a Buggatti and hit like a bulldozer. The only glass build in the game is a melee in leather armor and yet they are no Buggatti (IE no intrinsic armor or spell resistance)

NordJitsu

@Armitas‌


Enough people have explained to you why that is incorrect enough times that I have to question the sincerity of what you just wrote. I don't like to be dismissive, but spreading misinformation intentionally isn't something I appreciate.

Armitas

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Armitas‌


Enough people have explained to you why that is incorrect enough times that I have to question the sincerity of what you just wrote. I don't like to be dismissive, but spreading misinformation intentionally isn't something I appreciate.

I could just copy this and say the same thing back at you. It's a hollow retort.

NordJitsu

@Armitas‌

Perhaps, but at this point you have to know that you're incorrect. There's so many ways to counter BE mobility by speccing your own mobility.

Also:

https://imgur.com/RHkTuZq

Armitas

NordJitsu wrote: »

@Armitas‌

Perhaps, but at this point you have to know that you're incorrect. There's so many ways to counter BE mobility by speccing your own mobility.

Also:

https://imgur.com/RHkTuZq

Again I could just say this back at you. Even make my own Meme.

NordJitsu

@Armitas‌

Make your meme. Everything else has been said and the devs have made clear which side they agree with.

Funny comments and silly pictures are all we have left.

prana33b14_ESO

Raggok wrote: »

He could have used it if he had chosen to gain more ground to protect it's cast.
He also knew that I was out of stamina when I stopped using invasion on him and had to waddle over to him. At a few times he actually TURNS TOWARD ME to see if an invasion is coming. He blocks it and BEs again and TURNS TOWARD ME to see if I'm using it again.

No. It's a 4 second channel. At no time was he far enough ahead to use it. Unless you are trying to tell me he could have used BE, then basically regained the magicka he spent using BE with the channel, then of course you would be bashing him again immediately so it wouldn't have helped.

He knows that I am low on stamina when I no longer use invasion to close the gap. This is OBVIOUS, but you people are so emotionally invested in having your escape that you are either too self-deluded or dishonest to see it.

If his only intention was to run away then why would he turn to face me at any point in this fight? That's right, HE WOULDN'T.

He would if he saw that other person on his faction coming to help or if you know, he was checking to see if you WERE STILL CHASING. In fact I'm fairly certain that is what he does. Occam's Razor points to that being the likely explanation rather than "leet gamer knew I was out of stamina like he knows what my build is and which stamina potions I'm using, etc. etc.". The whole idea he knew your stamina level and stuff is pretty funny considering.

Niffo

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

No. It's a 4 second channel. At no time was he far enough ahead to use it. Unless you are trying to tell me he could have used BE, then basically regained the magicka he spent using BE with the channel, then of course you would be bashing him again immediately so it wouldn't have helped.

He knows that I am low on stamina when I no longer use invasion to close the gap. This is OBVIOUS, but you people are so emotionally invested in having your escape that you are either too self-deluded or dishonest to see it.

If his only intention was to run away then why would he turn to face me at any point in this fight? That's right, HE WOULDN'T.

He would if he saw that other person on his faction coming to help or if you know, he was checking to see if you WERE STILL CHASING. In fact I'm fairly certain that is what he does. Occam's Razor points to that being the likely explanation rather than "leet gamer knew I was out of stamina like he knows what my build is and which stamina potions I'm using, etc. etc.". The whole idea he knew your stamina level and stuff is pretty funny considering.

ESOhead lists Dark Exchange as 3 seconds, also he had more than enough magicka to put distance between him and Raggok to get off the Dark Exchange, just look at how many abilities he used after he turned to engage.

prana33b14_ESO

I mean what is your end game argument here?

"Leet sorcs drained my stamina with his OP BE til he knew my stamina was low and that's the only reason he faced me but then I still killed him with his buddy beating on me ."

Ummm ok?

prana33b14_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

ESOhead lists Dark Exchange as 3 seconds,

coolstorybro. Maybe ESOhead should correct the tooltips in game then because it's 4 seconds. do you do all your theorycrafting from old tooltips? That might be part of the issue.

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

also he had more than enough magicka to put distance between him and Raggok to get off the Dark Exchange, just look at how many abilities he used after he turned to engage.

Niffo

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

I mean what is your end game argument here?

"Leet sorcs drained my stamina with his OP BE til he knew my stamina was low and that's the only reason he faced me but then I still killed him with his buddy beating on me ."

Ummm ok?

The kill was only possible by using another overpowered ability. So when bash is fixed how would that fight have gone? You're saying its fine that the only way to win is by using something else thats broken.

prana33b14_ESO

jobo11b16_ESO wrote: »

The kill was only possible by using another overpowered ability. So when bash is fixed how would that fight have gone? You're saying its fine that the only way to win is by using something else thats broken.

Holy strawman batman. I know you're trying to frame my argument for me but it seems that yours is now:

"Well, bash is even more broken than BE but them sorcs don't die all the time when we use bash so we need 43959 threads about an escape skill that is actually not as OP as bash atm."

coolstorybro

Niffo

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Holy strawman batman. I know you're trying to frame my argument for me but it seems that yours is now:

"Well, bash is even more broken than BE but them sorcs don't die all the time when we use bash so we need 43959 threads about an escape skill that is actually not as OP as bash atm."

coolstorybro

Thanks for the response, showing how little defense Sorcerers have for Bolt Escape being like it is. Bash is being nerfed, thats why we don't need posts about it, when Bolt Escape is balanced then there won't need to be posts about it.

prana33b14_ESO

mkay

prana33b14_ESO

Guys, the bash spammers are just looking out for you. It's not that you get away from their bash spam once in awhile, or even like they withhold from using it until you try using that broken OP escape skill called BE, being all honorable and all. Nope, they are just worried that AFTER the skill they abuse the *** out of gets fixed, THEN Bolt Escape will be an issue. They just want fair gameplay guise! LMAO.

Niffo

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Guys, the bash spammers are just looking out for you. It's not that you get away from their bash spam once in awhile, or even like they withhold from using it until you try using BE or something, being so honorable and all. Nope, they are just worried that AFTER the skill they abuse the *** out of gets fixed, THEN Bolt Escape will be an issue. They just want fair gameplay guise! LMAO.

Bolt Escape is already an issue, you can keep acting like it isn't, all the posts about it show that it is.

NordJitsu

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

Guys, the bash spammers are just looking out for you. It's not that you get away from their bash spam once in awhile, or even like they withhold from using it until you try using that broken OP escape skill called BE, being all honorable and all. Nope, they are just worried that AFTER the skill they abuse the *** out of gets fixed, THEN Bolt Escape will be an issue. They just want fair gameplay guise! LMAO.

Lol, just wait until you see the bash spam "nerf." It helps make it less absurd, but Bash is still crazy powerful on 1.1, I've used it.

Really though I think you're starting to see how ridiculous these guys are. Its a couple of loud rude trolls leading a 2 man campaign against an ability and acting like they've got some kind of support. The polls on the forum have all shown that super majorities of forum posters think Bolt Escape is fine. Given the tendency of forum posting players to be highly opinionated, negative, and whiny (not that all are, its just over represented here) I think its safe to assume that the general player base feels even more strongly that its fine.

2 devs have also been asked about it now (Jessica Folsom and Brian Wheeler) and both seemed to indicate that it was fine. Jessica even said, "We’re looking at Bolt Escape also, but changing any skill is something we do with care. We don’t just listen to player feedback, we look at in-game data reports as well."

Which is basically dev speak for "QQ moar noobs. L2P." Wheeler basically said he doesn't see the issue.

These 2-6 forum whiners will just have to get over it I guess.

XILoKoIX

so because people that don't understand the game stomp their feet really loud, we should listen.


mmkay.

trahe

You guys are debating back and forth without convincing arguments for or against as each argument is personal. One says Bolt Escape is bad, one says it's good and working as intended.

My turn. My horse is at 30%+ speed. Most of you have better horses, faster horses.

There is no way a skill should allow anyone to outrace 50-80 people galloping on horses with that gold buff that makes us move faster.

Period. Discussion closed. You want to buy tires you call Luigi in the morning.

Niffo

NordJitsu wrote: »

Lol, just wait until you see the bash spam "nerf." It helps make it less absurd, but Bash is still crazy powerful on 1.1, I've used it.

Really though I think you're starting to see how ridiculous these guys are. Its a couple of loud rude trolls leading a 2 man campaign against an ability and acting like they've got some kind of support. The polls on the forum have all shown that super majorities of forum posters think Bolt Escape is fine. Given the tendency of forum posting players to be highly opinionated, negative, and whiny (not that all are, its just over represented here) I think its safe to assume that the general player base feels even more strongly that its fine.

2 devs have also been asked about it now (Jessica Folsom and Brian Wheeler) and both seemed to indicate that it was fine. Jessica even said, "We’re looking at Bolt Escape also, but changing any skill is something we do with care. We don’t just listen to player feedback, we look at in-game data reports as well."

Which is basically dev speak for "QQ moar noobs. L2P." Wheeler basically said he doesn't see the issue.

These 2-6 forum whiners will just have to get over it I guess.

Yeah, the polls which are so difficult to manipulate, those say people are fine with it. Far more than 2-6 people are posting against it, Keep your hopes up though. Neither of the people you mentioned have anything to do with balance.

Raggok

He would if he saw that other person on his faction coming to help or if you know, he was checking to see if you WERE STILL CHASING. In fact I'm fairly certain that is what he does. Occam's Razor points..

Only a -snip- would stop and turn to look if he is still being chased if his intention is to get away to begin with. Particularly if that person has been using invasion on him. Derpy derp.

Kingslayer

trahe wrote: »

You guys are debating back and forth without convincing arguments for or against as each argument is personal. One says Bolt Escape is bad, one says it's good and working as intended.

My turn. My horse is at 30%+ speed. Most of you have better horses, faster horses.

There is no way a skill should allow anyone to outrace 50-80 people galloping on horses with that gold buff that makes us move faster.

Period. Discussion closed. You want to buy tires you call Luigi in the morning.

They can't keep outrunning anybody if the person chasing is persistent enough they could get them. Depends on builds etc not everybody is built to chase. Obviously in a group that size to he will come up against other sorcs with BE. In a arena type environment this ability should be changed to cost more but on a big map like cyrodiil its needed. Its a traditional caster type class which needs an escape from the massive zergs. And besides nerfing things is not the way to do business. It creates an environment for further nerfs and this leads to years of bad balancing decisions which can crush the game in terms of population. People can't moan that a certain class gets an escape because others could moan about not getting the pull or the gap closers maybe. Dks have their own pull which no other class has access to. Nb's have their own teleport type gap closer. Templers well they have a dedicated healing line.

Niffo

Kingslayer wrote: »

They can't keep outrunning anybody if the person chasing is persistent enough they could get them. Depends on builds etc not everybody is built to chase. Obviously in a group that size to he will come up against other sorcs with BE. In a arena type environment this ability should be changed to cost more but on a big map like cyrodiil its needed. Its a traditional caster type class which needs an escape from the massive zergs. And besides nerfing things is not the way to do business. It creates an environment for further nerfs and this leads to years of bad balancing decisions which can crush the game in terms of population. People can't moan that a certain class gets an escape because others could moan about not getting the pull or the gap closers maybe. Dks have their own pull which no other class has access to. Nb's have their own teleport type gap closer. Templers well they have a dedicated healing line.

They don't need to outrun everyone indefinately, just far enough to break line-of-sight and stealth up. Fighter's guild has a pull though, it can only be used on the some targets, Nightblades teleport has a cast time and a target requirement, anyone can equip a Restoration Staff to heal. Templars having a dedicated healing line is less of a positive thing since it means they have less skill choice and have to be balanced around the fact that they have an class based healing line.

XILoKoIX

I don't have all the skills so nerf all the other skills please.

bantad87

I hope all the templars and dragonknights re-roll sorceror; they'll find that generally speaking, those two classes are much stronger 1v1 and group classes than sorcs, regardless of how effective bolt escape is at fleeing.

Raggok

bantad87 wrote: »

I hope all the templars and dragonknights re-roll sorceror; they'll find that generally speaking, those two classes are much stronger 1v1 and group classes than sorcs, regardless of how effective bolt escape is at fleeing.

I'd be all for buffing sorc group viability and nerfing their ability to troll with BE.

Mendoze

Mykah wrote: »

This video is a perfect example of why BE needs at the very minimum a 20% of the mana pools casting cost.

That does sound reasonable as long as all kinds of gap closers cost the same, and bolt escape's range is same as those gap closers.

beravinprb19_ESO

Mendoze wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

This video is a perfect example of why BE needs at the very minimum a 20% of the mana pools casting cost.

That does sound reasonable as long as all kinds of gap closers cost the same, and bolt escape's range is same as those gap closers.

Most gap closers already cost about that much. Throw in the cost of blocking, rolling, stun breaking, sneaking, sprinting, and so on... Yeah, magicka is far superior right now.

Mendoze

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Mendoze wrote: »

Mykah wrote: »

This video is a perfect example of why BE needs at the very minimum a 20% of the mana pools casting cost.

That does sound reasonable as long as all kinds of gap closers cost the same, and bolt escape's range is same as those gap closers.

Most gap closers already cost about that much. Throw in the cost of blocking, rolling, stun breaking, sneaking, sprinting, and so on... Yeah, magicka is far superior right now.

Well, when gap closers damage is same as bolt escape's, and they cost the same and set regen debuff, I'm all for it.

Niffo

Mendoze wrote: »

That does sound reasonable as long as all kinds of gap closers cost the same, and bolt escape's range is same as those gap closers.

Considering that you can get 15% cost reduction to all Storm Calling skills, and other gap closers either have an equal to or great cost than Bolt Escape, that's already done. And none of those other gap closers can be used without a target requirement, so why would they have to be equal to Bolt Escape?