The Official Vengeance Test Campaign Feedback Thread (Test 2)

Deimus · July 8

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes many large-scale battles and it was wonderful Cyrodiil felt like an actual battlefield again.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Compared to the last Vengeance test performance was worse, but compared to GH it was still much better. Taking into account that GH has around 60 players per faction compared to the 200+ per faction on Vengeance I'd say it was successful. During the first test I experience lag a couple of times the entire test duration, but this time there was some lag or desync every night only one major instance of desync for me, but I did crash 3 times. Only 1 crash was in a large battle, while out of the other two one was a smaller fight and the other I wasn't even in combat. All 3 crashed in a way that didn't bring up the usual "Could you describe what occurred when the game closed?" box.
It was responsive, but some skills that had an instant cast time felt like they had a half second delay before they would fire while others would fire immediately. The skill that would most noticeably do this was Scatter Shot. The combat bug scroll has started to appear. Nowhere near as oppressive as live, but the status of "Entered Combat" and "Left Combat" will flicker 2-3 times occasionally.
I found Vengeance very fun still, and my opinion hasn't changed. I'm consistently having more fun in Vengeance Cyrodiil than I did on live GH, and has gotten me to put more hours in the game last week than I normally would.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

I'm a fan of the skills not being bloated like in the regular campaigns, and the addition of weapon skills made some classes feel much better to play. During the first test I stuck with Arcanist since the class felt more complete to play the way I normally do compared to the Necromancer kit, but I was able to make Necromancer feel good this time by supplementing it with weapon skills.
I really like the changes to Bone Armor and the desecrated Stalking Blastbones making you a corpse. For Bone Armor that would be a great change to the live version and make the tethers much more user friendly. I mentioned on the first test thread, but will repeat that the way the Arcanist's Portal works in Vengeance is superior to the way it normally works, and all teleport skills should be that smooth (looking at Mist Form).
While healing is stronger I don't think it's crossed the line to where it becomes a harmful tool to create bad gameplay like heal stacking does in the regular campaigns, but it's inching closer.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

No character corruption issues.

What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test?

I enjoyed it greatly, the most time I've spent in Cyrodiil since the last Vengeance test. I like how it has the feel of actual keep warfare, and unlike GH participating in keep offensives and defenses is fun. It took the first test to break the illusion of the nostalgia I held for Cyrodiil. In current live Cyrodiil my fun didn't come from capturing keeps or outposts, because those fights didn't feel like a battle and ended soon as a ball arrived normally within 5 minutes as there are only 1-2 things happening on the map at a time. The fun came from going out of the way to bait fights by capturing resources or looking for bridge/field/milgate skirmishes, which to be honest the new battleground system covers that type of gameplay much better and with more frequently. Current Cyrodiil is a twisted imitation to what Cyrodiil once was and the potential hope that Vengeance holds. Many of us miss the large scale 20+ minute battles with multiple breaches that is rare to find even in Midyear Mayhem now. I hope the team is getting the data they need to preserve this type of gameplay, population, and performance when brought over to the regular campaigns, because I don't think I could ever put the blinders back on to enjoy the current state of Cyrodiil again.

Do you have any general feedback?

There were far fewer confused players about the test this time compared to the first one so great job of making that information easily apparent to the players. The increased mount speed made traversing the map feel a lot better so I appreciate that. I would like to see meatbags added as a siege weapon, and I'll mention again because I really am a fan of this change please change the corpse creation on the regular Bone Armor skill to turn the player into a corpse instead of dropping one. That may be the simplest solution to the tether issue. I'm walking away from this test satisfied and looking forward to my future visit to Cyrodiil in the next iteration of the Vengeance test.

Mancuso · July 8

Deimus wrote: »

...I don't think I could ever put the blinders back on to enjoy the current state of Cyrodiil again.

[/list]

Precisely.

Paschgon · July 8

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

I was able to get into the battles easily at any time.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Compared to the first test, the battles were slightly more fun, but the latency was lower. Compared to the current Cyrodiil, they were boring and unchallenging, but the latency was significantly higher. The characters were dull and unspectacular. The TESO promise of "play how you want" was broken again here, as all players were homogenized and practically treated equally. The game wasn't challenging, and you could collect AP without having to do anything or putting yourself in danger.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

I don't like it at all. It robs the player of their individuality and the opportunity to train and use their abilities appropriately. It's one of the reasons why both tests were boring and unchallenging for me.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

There was some lag, and at peak times, casting sometimes failed.

What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test?

I was very annoyed that there was another test and that I was forced to lose the PvP Cyrodiil playtime I actually paid for. I almost exclusively play Cyrodiil these days. If a new Cyrodiil were introduced in a similar form, I would be very upset. While there would be no more unfair ball groups, small-scale groups, or massive tanks, and perhaps less lag, there would unfortunately also be no challenges, no customization options, and no long-term fun. Cyrodiil would probably quickly become very boring for experienced players, and their hard-earned ranks would then be lost due to the much easier AP to obtain. Furthermore, the bugs in the game would likely remain.

Do you have any general feedback?

I'm bothered by the endless promises and tests of the past few years that have never been followed up with anything new, ultimately making things worse in Cyrodiil. There's practically no bug fixing anymore, there's barely any new content, and sensible balancing, especially with regard to ball groups, tanks, and small-scale groups versus casual players, has also been completely lost.

(Translated with Google. In the German forum is this thread not to find.)

Ingenon · July 8

I have played in this Vengeance Test Campaign daily on PS/NA in different factions while leveling Alliance Assault/Support on multiple alts. Usually I play PvE solo/duo or do trials/dungeons with guilds.

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles? Yes. There were groups fighting each other in Cyrodiil daily.
Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)? Skills were firing for me in large battles, and I was not getting disconnected.
What you think of the simplified abilities? I can kill enemies. I am not getting killed in one second by others. I'm not finding enemy players that cannot be killed by anyone even when they are outnumbered 10 to 1. Works for me. You do not need to change these abilities for me.
Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? No
What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test? Best test ever! I kept playing some (an hour or so) daily after completing all the Golden Pursuit activities because it was fun! Joining a group, or just riding around alongside them, while taking towns, resources, keeps, and getting in large battles with other groups. I have not had this much fun in Cyrodiil in years! Many years ago, the Under Level 50 Campaign used to be like this, but in recent years Cyrodiil has not been fun for me. Until now, with this Vengeance Test Campaign!
Do you have any general feedback? Please add this campaign to the list of always available Cyrodiil campaigns! I like being able to play alongside every other player from Level 10 to level 50 CP 3600. Also, please add the quests, vendors, emperor, dolmens, etc. that are available in the other campaigns.

NordSwordnBoard · July 8

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, wish I had recall stones due to mount speed. Plenty of Zerg waves to surf.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
A large zerg caused latency while approaching a keep, and I could feel it before seeing it. Some fun, but most fights became a pig-pile or kiting.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
Some were good, lack of choice would eventually make me lose interest. Unable to put more than one oil down meant that defense of a keep also required a group. AoE caps gave a feeling of futility vs a group.

What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test?
I hope you get the data needed. In other games you can select a preset loadout if you're new, just to get involved. I'd be OK with adding something like this if we can still access our own custom builds.

Do you have any general feedback?
The amount of impact I could have as a solo was diminished. I mean as simple as flagging a keep to relieve pressure, or holding off 4 people with a ram using oils long enough for reinforcements to arrive. I couldn't even set down siege for others to use to help speed up the process.

It was Cyrodiil on training wheels imo. Creative moves are limited with training wheels on.

Nebbles · July 8

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
Yes, no technical problems and every day there was large scale action happening.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Much better. The only slight ability delay I experienced was in massive battles towards the end of the week. Maybe it was because the servers needed a restart. But it was still more than playable, just a slight delay.

What you think of the simplified abilities?
Enjoyed them. While part of me missed more options, I still appreciated the constraints. More is not always better. And I believe it resulted in a much more healthy environment than live.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?
No

What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test?
This was the most fun I've had since early days of ESO. Huge battles, keeps being the focus. More people than ever engaged in fun.No more ridiculous ball groups or builds. Is it perfect? No. But by god, it is so so so much better than the mess that is live.

Do you have any general feedback?
Tweak the system a bit more, and make this the default cyrodiil. I tried logging back in today to play in grey host, but I just couldn't, I can't suffer through the disaster than is live any more. Live is a mess. It is just ball groups ruining the fun for everyone else, stupid OP builds, totally and utterly unfriendly to new or casual pvp players. We lost some things with the simplification of vengeance, but it is leagues better than live. Live is like an unchecked mess of power creep, absence of any form of balance or tuning or proper design. Vengeance, while slightly too simple, was like a proper, intentionally design system where the devs actually paid attention to balance and proper design.

I think the test made people realise that is what cyrodiil can be. Fun. Massive siege battles. The amount of people in chat declaring how much fun they were having, I haven't seen anything like that since the very early days of ESO.

I'm done with Cyrodiil for now, I just can't play it as it is in live anymore. Vengeance reminded me what it could be. And since I play eso for Cyrodiil and those massive fights and sieges, I'm done with eso until/unless something resembling vengeance becomes the constant offer.

ceruulean · July 8

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.

Previously, before I left the campaign, I had a resto staff on 1 and a lightning staff on 2. When I zoned into Vengeance again, I had an issue where the Yew Restoration staff disappeared from my inventory. I was very quickly switching between weapon slots 1 and 2.

When I entered, I had dual wield daggers equipped from my PvE inventory. While switching around to equip daggers on bar 2, somehow my previously equipped resto staff disappeared. It did not go into the inventory, and I couldn't find it even when typing "resto" in the search bar.

argonian37 · July 9

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes I ve been in a pair of epic battles with lot of players and felt great for a while, but after a pair of days it became repetitive

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Lag and responsiveness is much better than live cyro, but in general was worse than vengeance 1. Combat feels very limited, but with some tweaking could be much more fun. I dont like that crit dmg is not a difference maker here. About the lack of speed… I would buff mounts

What you think of the simplified abilities?

I like the simplified abilities and the possibility to keep a “pure class” setting.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?

Haven’t any issues

What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test?

I like these tests but if they are tests. I have much more expectations for the final version of Cyro. I appreciate the effort and in general lag is better, no mount in combat bug. Love the lack of ball groups and rush of agony stupid pulls but in this iteration of the test we are having things that were a setback from vengeance 1, like:

Ttk: very high, like… I know that nobody likes to die, but is not a wrestling game, a properly timed combo should kill. We queue for a game that is supposed to be a war, and soldiers die in wars in a variety of ways, not only killed by a group. Please buff properly timed combos, reward some skill and expression

Healing: very high, vigor and healing staff skill line are overpowered and it looks that when healing skills are used by some players together, everything becomes slower and laggy

The new RoA: DK chain, please rework that skill, after some days, it was spammed by zergs farming solos and pugs. The most common combo should be a personal combination of timed skills, not a chain and a 8 v 1 group beating. That’s not skill, that’s not an even field… that’s very boring and frustrating

AoE caps is a very bad idea. Please remove the caps, and instead put caps on healings. One instance of healing is enough. We have unkillable demigods going around in cyro everyday, it would be great if we have something different here

Lack of catapults, in general there is no way of countering a big group, and that is a problem

Add some proximity multiplier AoE skill like proxy detonation… zerging should have a risk

Do you have any general feedback?

I like the vengeance concept but I think for the next time the bet should be more risky. Please nerf healing, reward combat in more ways than being in a zerg running over smaller zergs and solos. Please remove the AoE dmg caps and enforce and reward different types of playing, like give us role templates, equipable items available for everyone that buff some stat (no proc), something that at least gives the impression of a basic build for the players. I like the plug and play concept, the accesibility and the performance but we need more variety and possibilities of expression.

ADawg · July 9

What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test?

Came back to the game having no idea about Vengeance test, but rather for SUBCLASSING.

Saw I couldn't que into Cyrodiil to try my new builds. Was annoyed

Then, later I went to Cyrodiil to try and find one of the new monster sets...couldn't because vengeance. Was annoyed

Best part about this test is its now over!

ADawg · July 9

Nebbles wrote: »

Do you have any general feedback?
Tweak the system a bit more, and make this the default cyrodiil. I tried logging back in today to play in grey host, but I just couldn't, I can't suffer through the disaster than is live any more. Live is a mess. It is just ball groups ruining the fun for everyone else, stupid OP builds, totally and utterly unfriendly to new or casual pvp players. We lost some things with the simplification of vengeance, but it is leagues better than live. Live is like an unchecked mess of power creep, absence of any form of balance or tuning or proper design. Vengeance, while slightly too simple, was like a proper, intentionally design system where the devs actually paid attention to balance and proper design.

I think the test made people realise that is what cyrodiil can be. Fun. Massive siege battles. The amount of people in chat declaring how much fun they were having, I haven't seen anything like that since the very early days of ESO.

I'm done with Cyrodiil for now, I just can't play it as it is in live anymore. Vengeance reminded me what it could be. And since I play eso for Cyrodiil and those massive fights and sieges, I'm done with eso until/unless something resembling vengeance becomes the constant offer.

So something like NO-CP + NO-PROC so people actually die when they are hit by multiple opponents and less lag due to no ridiculous proc sets?

Oh like RAVENWATCH before they made it proc again to "fix" the low population (spoiler: it didn't work!)

xylena_lazarow · July 9

Stamicka wrote: »

You would lose your account in this bet

I could go into why 100-0 burst kills are a win all around

Bet accepted. Please do go on.

Kungfu · July 9

My direct answers to bulleted questions inside quote below.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the new Vengeance Test. Please try out the new campaign and let us know what you think! Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:
Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?
100% of the time, yes. No functional issues in finding and/or getting to them. Only variables preventing would be lack of communication in zone and/or population imbalance.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?
Server performance-wise: better than Gray Host by far. Slight degradation in comparison to Vengeance 1.0.

Level of fun = absolute max. Large-scale battles like this past week's are (to me) exactly why I log into ESO & Cyrodiil. There is NOTHING like it in ANY other game. Please continue this process and capitalize on your niche!

What you think of the simplified abilities?
it was good and provided what was necessary. The ability list is becoming robust enough to allow for some build diversity. Though I think more options are needed.

Hidden benefit of simplified abilities seems to make new players much more comfortable, from the few I spoke with. Anecdotal though.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game.
A little confused as to what you mean by "corrupted". Do you mean to ask: did I get booted? Or is this a more substantial issue I have yet to experience: where a particular character of mine may have gotten booted and I could not log back in to that character?
If the former is true, yes. 5 crashes over 7 days of play with an estimated ~65 hours of total play time. I failed to read here before the week, so I also failed to provide the information you've requested below. So let me post a little here (and I'll save for the survey I presume is coming).

Same character the whole time: "Kung Foo", EP Templar. Each crash was the same. Video locked up but audio continued for a couple of seconds. Then combat audio stopped but music audio continued. Video still frozen in place. Had to kill the app via Windows - either not responding message or by killing task/process.

Most commonly occurred after about 6 hours of game time without rebooting my PC. But... that time spans over a logout period. Example: one crash happened on my 4th day - 10 minutes into cyrodiil. First thing in the morning. But I had not rebooted and by my estimations, it was about another ~6 hours of game time after crash the previous day.

Most commonly seemed to occur when I grouped with other people. I spent majority of my time solo. The first three days, I crashed every day. But I also only crashed after my friends logged on & grouped up with me. The fourth day & crash was solo (bullet above) but I had previously been grouped with my friends for many hours the previous night. From that fourth day forward, I was solo pretty much the whole time and only experience one more crash during the week.

No other obvious and/or concrete proof of triggers. I can suggest that they all happened (1)only at a point of interest / keep and (2)only where large scale battles were already occurring.

What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test?
Absolutely love it. So much so that it's the only reason I come back to ESO lately. At all.
And I'll repeat what I've been saying: please provide this as an option for players. Replace the Under 50 campaign with it. Having a persistent environment would also allow you to make tiny tweaks & test them with / without player knowledge, should that benefit you.

Do you have any general feedback?
Do I ever?! Well, I'm glad you asked.
Overall, a great next-step! There was definitely a little more "stutter" as I call it. Never really impeded performance but the graphics would kind of pause for a millisecond or less. Not enough to damage performance but enough to notice.

Please keep going and please entertain a persistent environment. I do not expect to log back into ESO (or paying for it) until the next one or a persistent is available as this is what I find fun. And that is what I pay you for. I have done and achieved everything else in the game that interests me outside Cyro. Which (Cyro) is the only content that (a)you have which no other game does and (b)is naturally variated by the playerbase - which you cannot replicate in pve; providing a slightly different experience on the long-term but also a fairly regular basis.

Absolute #1, top priority, must-have = keep this easily accessible and welcoming to NEW PLAYERS.
The simplified builds and lack of CP go a long way here.

Keep the large value ticks! The defensive ticks getting nerfed into the ground caused a general malaise and degraded overall enthusiasm. Even if you have to raise the prices of items purchased using AP, humans LOVE to see large numbers! For any unbelievers, see: slot machies, gacha games, credit card reward points, etc. etc. etc. If you give them dopamine, they will come.
Important: xp in skill lines does not need to change. The AP rewards need to be big numbers so people FEEL like they're winning whether they are or not.

More anti-personnel seige. Recommend meatbags to start. Maybe fire ballistae. It was way too easy to push a breach with current AOE caps.

Stamina based skill options/morphs. I think these would go a long way in testing and would relieve a lot of frustration. Or another, completely different approach where some of these class skills in cyro only are changed to stamina-based.

When you get to debating sets, please consider introducing maybe two for each class and making those specific to Cyrodiil only. Just like the gear provided. Keeping these sets separate will provide a potential progression tree in the future as rewards for rank gain, etc. And this way (being kept separate from pve), they can be thoroughly tested and/or rolled back as necessary without ruffling the feathers of hardcore trial groups and whatnot.

I'm not sure if faction locks are the best idea but they're all I know to resolve the population imbalance. I know you all are trying to test here, but I think we all noticed majority of people swapping to EP very early in the week and very few, if any, would change back if/when their AD or DC finally logged in. I wish I had a solution to offer here... but I think we can all agree the map turning completely one color during primetime is a bad thing for long term health.

What I learned this week: I was incorrect on what I thought my order of priorities were for Cyrodiil.
It's still about performance first. But population is right behind it and possibly equal to it. It has to "work" first but I found myself logging out when population was horribly imbalanced. And I realize also that it was the LARGE scale battles that I enjoy. 1 on 1, 2 on 2, etc... Those are fun and all when they happen. But Cyrodiil is MADE to be specifically large scale AvA. Without the population, it feels like playing hide & seek with one other person in an empty museum.

I love this version and it's the reason I joined ESO in the first place. Something-something about gaming since whenever, been here since beta blah blah blah, etc. etc. The fact of the matter is you've followed DAOC in this model where no other game has. Vengeance takes me back to it and it does an amazing job at leveling the playing field. Cyrodiil is meant to be a VERY large game of chess. Gray Host is no longer that. Just ask any ball group... if they wanted to run the map and ruin people's days, they would. And no, in easily 5-7 years, I have not seen a ball group actually troll & control the whole campaign like they all know they really can... if they chose to. They troll keeps, they farm scrolls. Very few actually coordinate like days of old in ways that truly ruin things.

Benefits of Vengeance are probably all in your inboxes already. I'll reiterate though to make sure I'm counterbalancing the noise from other people who have agendas that maybe do not align with the future & health of the game overall.

This mode prizes individual player skill over build exploitation. And I say that as one who has also spent hundreds of hours in my past finding, testing, and refining builds that over-perform. The problem you have today, ZOS, is too many sets to balance in Cyrodiil. And that build diversity should not go away - especially in PVE - but also seems like there's a good population that wants it in Cyrodiil. But how can you ever expect to manage that level of minutiae in a highly competitive environment where you have zero control over opponent difficulty? Keep Vengeance going. But please keep the doors to exploitation shut as tight as possible. You can always loosen controls later - you can never pull them back.

In this environment, I can honestly say it was VERY validating to see that I'm actually pretty good at this game. On a playing field where all things are equal, I was able to outperform my own expectations. I was able to play Cyrodiil MY WAY which was surfing zergs, defending keeps, taking scrolls, etc. etc. One of my very favorite things to do, I got to do OVER and OVER this week! To jump off the side of a keep and push into enemy numbers only to find that the action inspired others to jump in right behind me!
There is absolutely nothing like it. Bailing off that keep and pushing into an enemy zerg only to see them routed as the friendly zerg starts realizing on an individual level "oh, we're pushing, let's go!" and to win! SO. SO fun.

And finally, in rebuttal to the "this is just biggest zerg wins" argument: that simply is not true. Ironically I find most of these people are the ones who want their over-performing set combinations back. Yet they do not want to take their own advice & get better at this mode. AT LEAST five times in this campaign, we were able to take a group of three of us (four one night) and simply by taking a small tower like Sejanus, we made a massive difference. On the last day (I think it was?) AD was HORRIBLY under populated compared to EP. But they crept all the way up to owning BRK, Harlun's (hahaha had to edit cuz you can't abbreviate Harlun's Outpost), Drake, & Sej because they hit those locations together and intelligently... keeping the whole EP zerg riding around the map.
And furthermore, I pushed into DOUBLE our numbers more times than I can count & we won. Not because of "bigger zerg" but because of tactics - who we hit, how we hit them, & when.

BUT... there is obviously a larger scale of "bigger zerg" that holds true. To me, "bigger zerg wins" is not the same issue as "population imbalance". If you give me 20 players who know what they're doing, we can route 80 from a defense. But if one faction only HAS half or 1/4th the population it doesn't matter much what you do.

DrGIggles80 · July 9

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles? Yes many large scale battles
Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)? felt much better skills fired properly, stuck in combat glitch for mounts was nonexistant
What you think of the simplified abilities? They are decent but lots of room to improve them.
Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game. No corruption. @ disconnects but was able to log back in rather quickly
What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test? It was a very fun test to be a part of on xbox na. Lots of room to grow it beyond the current limits. excited for the next test.
Do you have any general feedback?

LPapirius · July 15

Just please stop with the vengeance mode nonsense. Please.

ZOS already knows what's causing the performance issues. Enough of the charades already.

After the dozen or more "tests" ZOS has already put the PvP community through if they don't already know the exact cause of the performance issues no further testing is going magically present the solution.

Fixing ESO performance issues is either beyond ZOS' capabilities or the cost to implement the fix is higher than the economic threshold set by the bean counters.

Arrow312 · July 16

I do have one question. Why did the survey ask if I could imagine playing such a campaign more often / permanently? And why was it asked what is important to me in Cyrodiil? For me, these are not questions that reveal what needs to be improved, but whether this campaign should be permanent. But it could also just be pessimism

Major_Mangle · July 16

Arrow312 wrote: »

I do have one question. Why did the survey ask if I could imagine playing such a campaign more often / permanently? And why was it asked what is important to me in Cyrodiil? For me, these are not questions that reveal what needs to be improved, but whether this campaign should be permanent. But it could also just be pessimism

Asking the same question myself. Isn´t Vengeance supposed to be about performance, and yet only one out of all the questions in the survey was about performance. Every other question was either about whether you liked Vengeance or not, or what things you wanted to add to Vengeance. Like why does it matter if people like it or not if it´s supposed to be a PERFORMANCE TEST?

And people still think Vengeance is "only a test".....ye right....

LadyGP · July 16

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles?

Yes, due to the template style gameplay you're only way to win a fight is if you beg the entire faction to come help.

Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)?

Generally, okay. There were definetly some times (Arrius fight @React has the clip from other side of map) where things got very...very clunky. In my experience it wasn't a deal breaker like the old school "slideshow" or the "hampster died" we are used too but based on zone chat a lot of people were running into some big issues.

What you think of the simplified abilities?

I don't like this question - it's missing a ton of context - let me rephrase it.

What do you think of the simplified abilities in terms of their impact on overall performance?

Absolutley love them! It's clear I/O calcuations have an impact on performance so reducing the XYZ checks on server is the right call.

What do you think of the simplified abilities regarding the role or influence you feel they provide during a fight?

Literally caused me to alt + f4 one night. This entire week long test... not once did I feel like I could impact a fight. "Skill issue".. "trast build" whatever you want to say.. the ONLY thing I felt like I could do was throw heals.

There were multiple times I would wate for people to go into oils, caltrop them (this is a whole different conversation by the way of what we reduced gameplay to), fire of a few AoE, ulti dump, and next to nothing would happen. The only way you can win fights now is if you have the most players in the zerg or not - and that is NOT what you want Cyro to become when you're already having low pop/high pop issues. Also... can we talk about the AOE caps?!? Who got this approved and why?

What do you think of the simplified abilities in relation to the flexibility they offer for creating varied builds or setups?

What build? We are all the same. People who have been playing since beta should have at least a small % advantage as someone who has never played. I am in no way trying to gate keep PvP (if you know me in game you know I am always encouraging people from PvE *** come to PvP during events to join guilds, ask for help, come back etc. I want PvP to grow we need new blood, but in no way should it be a 1:1 skill ratio for beta player:new player.

Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc?
No

What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test?

The very first test I was blown away - mainly because of just how big the fights were and the performance was that much better. This second time around, now that the hype of performance was already experience I think more people were focused on the skills/builds/play style/gameplay - and bzed on zone chat people do NOT like the direction this is heading. Obviously, the survey itself will show that one way or another but... we have got to get some skill diveristy, set diversity, etc because just two waves of people old civil war style front lining pvp is not the gameplay the vast majority of people want.

Do you have any general feedback?

The barrier to entry for PvP needs to be fixed - I get that. However, it feels like the studio is trying to do that while fixing performance and have one camp. You're shotting yourself in the foot by trying to solve too many problems that really don't need to go together. You can fix performance, reduce skill complexity, while still giving players that satisfying and rewarding player experience and not having to make everyone the same template.

My thoughts - make the "stater PvP" it's own camp and make it more like Vengance test 2. Vengance test 2 is so much more forgiving than Cyro. Main Cyro should cause pain if you mess up. If I go in for a kill and someone was hiding and ganks me before I try to cc/eliminate a ball groups lead then I need to feel that pain. Right now... literally nothing that I just said can't happen because there is no stealth, there is no real group comps in general (not talking about ball groups, there is no "thought" behind doing things. It's just.. ride the wave and hope you have more people. Sit on oils, drop caltrops, and rinse/repeat when someone gets inside.

Remove AoE caps
Figure out the "sweet spot" for hot stacks/shield stacks. You can still have ballg roups but you have got to make us weaker. Yes, us.

LadyGP · July 17

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Arrow312 wrote: »

I do have one question. Why did the survey ask if I could imagine playing such a campaign more often / permanently? And why was it asked what is important to me in Cyrodiil? For me, these are not questions that reveal what needs to be improved, but whether this campaign should be permanent. But it could also just be pessimism

Asking the same question myself. Isn´t Vengeance supposed to be about performance, and yet only one out of all the questions in the survey was about performance. Every other question was either about whether you liked Vengeance or not, or what things you wanted to add to Vengeance. Like why does it matter if people like it or not if it´s supposed to be a PERFORMANCE TEST?

And people still think Vengeance is "only a test".....ye right....

I already gave my feedback but wanted to jump in on this question and give my two cents.

I think they know "how" to fix performance and "why" it's happening now.

IMO this survey was geared in the way it was because they want to figure out what direction to push Cyro to moving forward. Do people like everyone feeling the same... minimal balance/skill changes... just ride the zerg and win (obviously this is an over simplification I'm just saying it this way for the sake of time)... or do people want to be able to min/max like crazy, have their unique play styles, etc.

I think the second option is what most people will say.

If I took a guess... a good bit of those who pick option one do so because "there are no ball groups now". There were ball groups, although the mechanics were slightly different, in this Veng test 2 so for people who say ball groups won't be a thing anymore... you're mistaken my friends.

Arrow312 · July 18

LadyGP wrote: »

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Arrow312 wrote: »

I do have one question. Why did the survey ask if I could imagine playing such a campaign more often / permanently? And why was it asked what is important to me in Cyrodiil? For me, these are not questions that reveal what needs to be improved, but whether this campaign should be permanent. But it could also just be pessimism

Asking the same question myself. Isn´t Vengeance supposed to be about performance, and yet only one out of all the questions in the survey was about performance. Every other question was either about whether you liked Vengeance or not, or what things you wanted to add to Vengeance. Like why does it matter if people like it or not if it´s supposed to be a PERFORMANCE TEST?

And people still think Vengeance is "only a test".....ye right....

I already gave my feedback but wanted to jump in on this question and give my two cents.

I think they know "how" to fix performance and "why" it's happening now.

IMO this survey was geared in the way it was because they want to figure out what direction to push Cyro to moving forward. Do people like everyone feeling the same... minimal balance/skill changes... just ride the zerg and win (obviously this is an over simplification I'm just saying it this way for the sake of time)... or do people want to be able to min/max like crazy, have their unique play styles, etc.

I think the second option is what most people will say.

If I took a guess... a good bit of those who pick option one do so because "there are no ball groups now". There were ball groups, although the mechanics were slightly different, in this Veng test 2 so for people who say ball groups won't be a thing anymore... you're mistaken my friends.

If vengence becomes permanent, there will also be BG there. That's just a fallacy, the beginning has already been made with the healing staff. You can heal several people with it. If the AOE is then cancelled or raised to a limited extent, there will also be BGs in Vengence. There were already BGs before there were sets like PB, DC and RoA.

Zama666 · July 18

Hello,

Were you able to successfully get into large-scale battles? YES
Did large-scale battles feel better latency-wise and how combat feels (responsive or not, fun or not, etc.)? YES - FUN
What you think of the simplified abilities? DISLIKE - removed the creative usage of sets and skills
Did any of your characters become ‘corrupted’ if they leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, hit lag, etc? If you encounter character corruption, please provide the following feedback when using /bug in-game. NO - all good
account nam
character name
What happened to trigger the corruption (leave Cyrodiil mid battle, lost connection, got booted, etc)?
Time of day this occurred
screenshots and video
What are your initial thoughts on Vengeance Test? EXCELLENT for staying in the game and reduced lag
Do you have any general feedback?Keep on testing, I would love to get it right

LadyGP · August 19

I might have missed it - but will we get to see any of the analytics from Veg test 2 @ZOS_Kevin? Similar to how we did with V1?

MincMincMinc · August 19

LadyGP wrote: »

I might have missed it - but will we get to see any of the analytics from Veg test 2 @ZOS_Kevin? Similar to how we did with V1?

I do believe they had mentioned doing another but @ZOS_Kevin it would be very nice to see the analytics again. Especially since the players have reported a difference or increase in lag with the addition of the resto staff aoe hots being the main culprit pointed to.

Which aligns with live's pvp having numerous aoe stacking hot/effect abusing groups. Maybe putting in limiters like aoe caps or limiting how many effects stack like in the old days of ESO is worth testing again. Something like preventing effect stacking also had some build diversity benefits so instead of everyone running the "better" morph you would atleast have reasons to run the other morph to avoid stacking issues.