xylena_lazarow wrote: »Vengeance will revitalize PvP. It had 600 players on at once for the test. That's the direction the devs are going.
Were you there for the test? There were definitely hundreds on at once, more than I've seen since launch, and exceeding launch numbers according to the dev post. The promise of "fair" PvP is popular, players new and old came out in force for the test, even if the forums are vocal about preserving an irreversibly broken build system.No way there are gonna be 600 in pvp
xylena_lazarow wrote: »Vengeance will revitalize PvP. It had 600 players on at once for the test. That's the direction the devs are going.
xylena_lazarow wrote: »Were you there for the test? There were definitely hundreds on at once, more than I've seen since launch, and exceeding launch numbers according to the dev post. The promise of "fair" PvP is popular, players new and old came out in force for the test, even if the forums are vocal about preserving an irreversibly broken build system.No way there are gonna be 600 in pvp
AngryPenguin wrote: »xylena_lazarow wrote: »Vengeance will revitalize PvP. It had 600 players on at once for the test. That's the direction the devs are going.
A mandated vengeance mode will be the death nail for ESO PvP.
As a primary PvP player yourself it baffles me how you've come to the conclusions you have regarding vengeance mode. Vengeance mode was just supposed to be a test anyway, so ZOS could gather information to improve their actual PvP mode. If it becomes more than that then ZOS wasn't being honest with us in the first place.
xylena_lazarow wrote: »Were you there for the test? There were definitely hundreds on at once, more than I've seen since launch, and exceeding launch numbers according to the dev post. The promise of "fair" PvP is popular, players new and old came out in force for the test, even if the forums are vocal about preserving an irreversibly broken build system.No way there are gonna be 600 in pvp
It's not much better on PC/NA, prime time is its last life support. I was skeptical of Vengeance and really hated it at first. But it brought players into PvP from out of nowhere like nothing I've ever seen in this game, and I have to admit the concept is a solid foundation, the skill lines they added on PTS are already a huge improvement.The game is so incredible dead on PS EU its just sad
Do you disagree?AngryPenguin wrote: »If you think the current live ESO PvP system is irreversibly broken now
xylena_lazarow wrote: »Do you disagree?AngryPenguin wrote: »If you think the current live ESO PvP system is irreversibly broken now
AngryPenguin wrote: »xylena_lazarow wrote: »Do you disagree?AngryPenguin wrote: »If you think the current live ESO PvP system is irreversibly broken now
How can anyone agree with the statement "...current live ESO PvP system is irreversibly broken...." when ZOS still has done nothing to fix RoA or heal and shield stacking?
We've been begging for changes to RoA since it's inception and for heal and shield stacking limitations for more than 5 years now. You yourself have made numerous posts making these requests.
So how can anyone agree that the current live ESO is "irreversibly broken" when zos has made, apparently, pretty close to zero effort into fixing it?
Sadly the console versions will likely die either way unless they're able to implement Crossplay.I doubt vengeance is going to save a whole server.
They've been playing whack-a-mole with balance problems for a decade, while every new update piles on more problems than they can possibly keep up with. Their PvE/PvP combined model will just keep introducing more Relequens and Rushing Agonies and Null Arcas and double spectral bows and exponentially more power for comp groups. The only "effort" that makes sense is to radically change their PvP design philosophy from the ground up. Hence, Vengeance.AngryPenguin wrote: »So how can anyone agree that the current live ESO is "irreversibly broken" when zos has made, apparently, pretty close to zero effort into fixing it?
xylena_lazarow wrote: »Sadly the console versions will likely die either way unless they're able to implement Crossplay.I doubt vengeance is going to save a whole server.They've been playing whack-a-mole with balance problems for a decade, while every new update piles on more problems than they can possibly keep up with. Their PvE/PvP combined model will just keep introducing more Relequens and Rushing Agonies and Null Arcas and double spectral bows and exponentially more power for comp groups. The only "effort" that makes sense is to radically change their PvP design philosophy from the ground up. Hence, Vengeance.AngryPenguin wrote: »So how can anyone agree that the current live ESO is "irreversibly broken" when zos has made, apparently, pretty close to zero effort into fixing it?
I take this to mean your personal experience hasn't changed much. That's the result of the whack-a-mole, such as with broken proc sets, which get nerfed, only to be replaced by an even more busted version of the same thing, like when they nerfed Dark Convergence only to push Rushing Agony on us. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.What changes has ZOS even made to PvP in the last 5 years other than stackable siege and some minor rewards changes?
xylena_lazarow wrote: »I take this to mean your personal experience hasn't changed much. That's the result of the whack-a-mole, such as with broken proc sets, which get nerfed, only to be replaced by an even more busted version of the same thing, like when they nerfed Dark Convergence only to push Rushing Agony on us. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.What changes has ZOS even made to PvP in the last 5 years other than stackable siege and some minor rewards changes?
Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Part of the issue is a core aspect of the games design and that being that zones scale to level making older zones nearly as valuable as new zones for replay.
One one hand, this is a smart thing to do as it makes sure older content is still somewhat relevant.
On the other hand, it spreads out the player base more and more as the game gets larger making it harder for casual players to get warband quests done or anything that may require multiple players. It a double negative effect in that also makes the world feel dead wherever you are playing.
ESO has a lot of good things going for it, but it also has old design decisions that do not work so well for the game. Development over the past 10 years always feels to me like they have to work around past design decisions. It's always feels like "fake it till you make it" or "thow things at a wall and see what sticks". That is the impression I get anyway.
They changed Vamp 3, Tarnished Nightmare, and Hardened Ward after player feedback that I myself was very involved in. Those were all improvements to the meta for sure, but there's still just so many things that are broken, unbalanced, unfun, etc. I spent weeks on the PTS digging through the build system (again) and while nuking Rushing Agony would be an improvement, there would still be a million other broken sets and mechanics still driving players away.In other words, the problem is less the current state of Cyrodiil PvP and more a problem with ZOS' lack of implementing changes essentially the entire PvP community, including yourself, have been begging for.
xylena_lazarow wrote: »They changed Vamp 3, Tarnished Nightmare, and Hardened Ward after player feedback that I myself was very involved in. Those were all improvements to the meta for sure, but there's still just so many things that are broken, unbalanced, unfun, etc. I spent weeks on the PTS digging through the build system (again) and while nuking Rushing Agony would be an improvement, there would still be a million other broken sets and mechanics still driving players away.In other words, the problem is less the current state of Cyrodiil PvP and more a problem with ZOS' lack of implementing changes essentially the entire PvP community, including yourself, have been begging for.
TBF most of said feedback was "Baww! I hate change!" so I have no idea how the devs would've parsed anything meaningful from it, not like they were gonna suddenly go back on their plans. We were pretty clear about Assassination being grossly overpowered and Rushing Agony still needing to be gone, so no surprise PvP continues to fail.MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »They also ignored all the feedback regarding subclassing in the PTS
xylena_lazarow wrote: »TBF most of said feedback was "Baww! I hate change!" so I have no idea how the devs would've parsed anything meaningful from it, not like they were gonna suddenly go back on their plans. We were pretty clear about Assassination being grossly overpowered and Rushing Agony still needing to be gone, so no surprise PvP continues to fail.MISTFORMBZZZ wrote: »They also ignored all the feedback regarding subclassing in the PTS
Pixiepumpkin wrote: »Part of the issue is a core aspect of the games design and that being that zones scale to level making older zones nearly as valuable as new zones for replay.
One one hand, this is a smart thing to do as it makes sure older content is still somewhat relevant.
On the other hand, it spreads out the player base more and more as the game gets larger making it harder for casual players to get warband quests done or anything that may require multiple players. It a double negative effect in that also makes the world feel dead wherever you are playing.
ESO has a lot of good things going for it, but it also has old design decisions that do not work so well for the game. Development over the past 10 years always feels to me like they have to work around past design decisions. It's always feels like "fake it till you make it" or "thow things at a wall and see what sticks". That is the impression I get anyway.
Making zones scale to level has enabled players to continue content after they would otherwise have out-levelled it, and also enables players to help out other players because they still get benefit from repeating content. If you don't scale to level then players do the content once and then move on, leaving newer players alone in deserted zones that everyone else has moved on from. That was the problem with the original Craglorn content, new players couldn't solo it and the experienced players had already moved on so there was no-one to group with.