PTS Update 46 - Feedback Thread for Subclassing

sans-culottes · April 24

ForumBully wrote: »

I think if you're going to write a post about stopping Subclassing before it goes live, or asking for a nerfed system where subclassed skill lines are weaker, you're wasting your time. I don't believe that's even an option. The PTS lasts a short time and posts like that are just noise.
The player base needs to start talking about the relative strength of skill lines...not whether Sorcs or Necros need more help, but the relative strength of the skill lines in those class trees. There's been a lot about those things, and some great ideas as well as accurate criticism but there's still so much noise about system itself and "pure class" nonsense. The metas that emerge from this system will be the best unbiased data ZoS can get about the relative strength of skill lines and I expect those skill lines to be adjusted accordingly, but some changes are possible before this goes live if people focus on those adjustments without "the sky is falling!"

Respectfully, the issue isn’t just the strength of individual skill lines in isolation. Rather, it is how their fusion creates emergent behaviors the system was never designed to handle.

Subclassing does more than merely tweak balance. It alters the architecture of the game’s identity and progression models. You can’t reduce that to numbers. Saying critique of the system itself is “noise” presumes a consensus that doesn’t exist and sidesteps the substance of those concerns.

ForumBully · April 24

sans-culottes wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I think if you're going to write a post about stopping Subclassing before it goes live, or asking for a nerfed system where subclassed skill lines are weaker, you're wasting your time. I don't believe that's even an option. The PTS lasts a short time and posts like that are just noise.
The player base needs to start talking about the relative strength of skill lines...not whether Sorcs or Necros need more help, but the relative strength of the skill lines in those class trees. There's been a lot about those things, and some great ideas as well as accurate criticism but there's still so much noise about system itself and "pure class" nonsense. The metas that emerge from this system will be the best unbiased data ZoS can get about the relative strength of skill lines and I expect those skill lines to be adjusted accordingly, but some changes are possible before this goes live if people focus on those adjustments without "the sky is falling!"

Respectfully, the issue isn’t just the strength of individual skill lines in isolation. Rather, it is how their fusion creates emergent behaviors the system was never designed to handle.

Subclassing does more than merely tweak balance. It alters the architecture of the game’s identity and progression models. You can’t reduce that to numbers. Saying critique of the system itself is “noise” presumes a consensus that doesn’t exist and sidesteps the substance of those concerns.

That fusion is the purpose of balancing skill lines against each other. Talking about class balance isn't relevant in multiclassing system, and that's what we're getting regardless of any consensus. We don't get a vote. Is ZoS going to cancel something in the works for years? No. So if players have an interest in balance it should be about the system as it is, not what it was, and all the "pure" class stuff is simply noise. Class balance is over. Skill Line balance is the game going forward.

Zyaneth_Bal · April 24

This hasn’t been in the work for years though. Not nearly as long.

Class lines should still complement each other first and foremost. “Pure” classes are still an option, not to mention that new players have to play “pure” classes for a very long period of time before actually getting to subclassing at all. So saying class balance isn’t relevant is definitely incorrect.

ForumBully · April 24

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

This hasn’t been in the work for years though. Not nearly as long.

Class lines should still complement each other first and foremost. “Pure” classes are still an option, not to mention that new players have to play “pure” classes for a very long period of time before actually getting to subclassing at all. So saying class balance isn’t relevant is definitely incorrect.

Corporate roadmaps are long. They didn't dream this up a few months ago.

Zyaneth_Bal · April 24

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

This hasn’t been in the work for years though. Not nearly as long.

Class lines should still complement each other first and foremost. “Pure” classes are still an option, not to mention that new players have to play “pure” classes for a very long period of time before actually getting to subclassing at all. So saying class balance isn’t relevant is definitely incorrect.

Corporate roadmaps are long. They didn't dream this up a few months ago.

zos🙄

ForumBully · April 24

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

This hasn’t been in the work for years though. Not nearly as long.

Class lines should still complement each other first and foremost. “Pure” classes are still an option, not to mention that new players have to play “pure” classes for a very long period of time before actually getting to subclassing at all. So saying class balance isn’t relevant is definitely incorrect.

Corporate roadmaps are long. They didn't dream this up a few months ago.

zos🙄

It does defy belief at times, but yes. There have been countless meetings preceding every astonished headslap by the player base.

DrSlaughtr · April 24

ForumBully wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

This hasn’t been in the work for years though. Not nearly as long.

Class lines should still complement each other first and foremost. “Pure” classes are still an option, not to mention that new players have to play “pure” classes for a very long period of time before actually getting to subclassing at all. So saying class balance isn’t relevant is definitely incorrect.

Corporate roadmaps are long. They didn't dream this up a few months ago.

See I don't buy this because the way they are implementing it is completely chaotic. I think this was a knee jerk reaction to seeing player numbers tank over the last 6 months. Maybe they had this pinned to a board for a while, but the actual implementation? If they have been 'working' on this multiclass system for over a year, then they failed miserably to bring any sense or reason to it.

sans-culottes · April 25

ForumBully wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

ForumBully wrote: »

I think if you're going to write a post about stopping Subclassing before it goes live, or asking for a nerfed system where subclassed skill lines are weaker, you're wasting your time. I don't believe that's even an option. The PTS lasts a short time and posts like that are just noise.
The player base needs to start talking about the relative strength of skill lines...not whether Sorcs or Necros need more help, but the relative strength of the skill lines in those class trees. There's been a lot about those things, and some great ideas as well as accurate criticism but there's still so much noise about system itself and "pure class" nonsense. The metas that emerge from this system will be the best unbiased data ZoS can get about the relative strength of skill lines and I expect those skill lines to be adjusted accordingly, but some changes are possible before this goes live if people focus on those adjustments without "the sky is falling!"

Respectfully, the issue isn’t just the strength of individual skill lines in isolation. Rather, it is how their fusion creates emergent behaviors the system was never designed to handle.

Subclassing does more than merely tweak balance. It alters the architecture of the game’s identity and progression models. You can’t reduce that to numbers. Saying critique of the system itself is “noise” presumes a consensus that doesn’t exist and sidesteps the substance of those concerns.

That fusion is the purpose of balancing skill lines against each other. Talking about class balance isn't relevant in multiclassing system, and that's what we're getting regardless of any consensus. We don't get a vote. Is ZoS going to cancel something in the works for years? No. So if players have an interest in balance it should be about the system as it is, not what it was, and all the "pure" class stuff is simply noise. Class balance is over. Skill Line balance is the game going forward.

I appreciate the interest in forward-looking balance discussions, but I think it’s worth noting that critiques of subclassing aren’t about nostalgia or “pure class” dogma. Rather, they concern how the mechanical and thematic logic of the game has been disrupted by intermixing systems that were never designed to interact.

Balance isn’t just about math. It’s also about symbolic cohesion, player identity, and the expectations the game has spent a decade establishing. The notion that we “don’t get a vote” is, respectfully, not how live service games function. Feedback—critical or otherwise—is, of course, central to iterative refinement.

Maggusemm · April 25

most players I speak to find that subclassing is a wonderful new step offering more possibilities for everybody while people are not forced into using if they want to focus on their class identiy.

It is normal that people complain about changes even if they are amazing like sub-classing.

xylena_lazarow · April 25

Assassin NB tree completely breaks PvP, needs hefty nerf starting with the double spec bow (Grim Focus).

ShadowPaladin · April 25

In nearly all of the threads about "Sub-Classing" I have seen people complaining about PvP here and PvP there and how bad it will be for PvP.

You know. You all should keep the following in mind

!!!

At the moment ZOS is working on changes for PvP because of all the problems we had through the years (eg. the stuck in combat bug, the lag because of server issues, and so on). Chances are quiet hight that we will get - as the test campaign they are running at the moment - some EXTRA PvP skills and stuff which will be 100% separated from the PvE skills. This will/could mean NO Sub-Classing at all for PvP

!!! Instead only a few selected skills for all classes and for each class you can choose your setups from.

And yes, I do know that this may or may no happen and that in June we will at first get the Sub-Classing for the situation as it is right now.

BUT!!! Here too you should keep in mind, that ZOS has nerfed stuff in past AFTER its release, when they noticed it was way too overpowered! So, if they notice that Sub-Classing is totally *** up PvP they may nerf it for PvP

.

We will need to see how things develope.

XIIICaesar · April 25

I was excited intially but the way it's been done seems to me inconsistent with how other MMO have done it. YES I know this isn't other games lol. I was exicted to do a Necro with 2 NB skill lines or a Templar w/ 2 DK lines etc but only being able to choose 1 from each was a bummer.

DenverRalphy · April 25

XIIICaesar wrote: »

I was excited intially but the way it's been done seems to me inconsistent with how other MMO have done it. YES I know this isn't other games lol. I was exicted to do a Necro with 2 NB skill lines or a Templar w/ 2 DK lines etc but only being able to choose 1 from each was a bummer.

You could simply make a NB with 1 Necro skill line, or DK with 1 Templar skill line. That would be the same thing. Unless you place a lot of weight on the class mastery scripts, or class sets from IA.

LukosCreyden · April 25

The thing that frustrates me is that "subclassing" sounds amazing for creative builds, immersion and general fun. However, some people who are focused purely on meta gaming are kinda squeezing the fun out of it. Not saying that it doesn't need balancing- it definitely does- but there are so many people in the forums who, for some bizarre reason, want to stick to the same tired old class set ups we have had for years. Muh class indentity. Muh current meta build.
Boring boring boring.

YandereGirlfriend · April 25

Handing-out a free 9% Crit Chance to NBs, which is the rarest and most jealously guarded stat in the game, is madness.

Revert the flanking bonus back to Pen so that it cannot contribute to power-creep in PvE.

Remember when Crit Chance was globally nerfed as a set item bonus many years ago? Yeah, you are undoing that change for no particular reason except that this time it is handed to only a single class vs. being available to all players via sets.

Elvenheart · April 26

I think the Conjured Ward skill should be swapped with something in Dark Magic to get it out of the Daedric Summoning line so no-pet sorcerers can get rid of that line but keep the shield.

sans-culottes · April 26

LukosCreyden wrote: »

The thing that frustrates me is that "subclassing" sounds amazing for creative builds, immersion and general fun. However, some people who are focused purely on meta gaming are kinda squeezing the fun out of it. Not saying that it doesn't need balancing- it definitely does- but there are so many people in the forums who, for some bizarre reason, want to stick to the same tired old class set ups we have had for years. Muh class indentity. Muh current meta build.
Boring boring boring.

The problem with treating subclassing as pure “creativity” is that true creativity requires working within a meaningful symbolic framework. Simply grafting unrelated skill lines onto a character—such as mixing Sorcerer lightning, Warden ice, and Necromancer corpses—does not deepen creativity. It collapses thematic coherence into incoherent mechanical collage.

Players who care about class identity are not defending “the meta” as you frame it. They are defending the structural meaning of being, for example, a Necromancer: a figure who manipulates death and decay, not a generic magic user wielding a magma whip followed by their dutiful netch.

Subclassing, without meaningful constraints, threatens both balance and immersion. It removes the symbolic depth that makes the game world feel internally consistent and replaces it with a system where the only real logic is optimization, not narrative.

Mocking players who value internal consistency does not solve the mechanical or narrative problems subclassing introduces. It simply reveals an unwillingness to confront how much thematic structure underpins long-term engagement.

Lystrad · April 26

sans-culottes wrote: »

The problem with treating subclassing as pure “creativity” is that true creativity requires working within a meaningful symbolic framework. Simply grafting unrelated skill lines onto a character—such as mixing Sorcerer lightning, Warden ice, and Necromancer corpses—does not deepen creativity. It collapses thematic coherence into incoherent mechanical collage.

Players who care about class identity are not defending “the meta” as you frame it. They are defending the structural meaning of being, for example, a Necromancer: a figure who manipulates death and decay, not a generic magic user wielding a magma whip followed by their dutiful netch.

Subclassing, without meaningful constraints, threatens both balance and immersion. It removes the symbolic depth that makes the game world feel internally consistent and replaces it with a system where the only real logic is optimization, not narrative.

Mocking players who value internal consistency does not solve the mechanical or narrative problems subclassing introduces. It simply reveals an unwillingness to confront how much thematic structure underpins long-term engagement.

To be fair, many people who want subclassing want it specifically to work within self imposed constraints for the purpose of making their character more internally consistent than it currently is within the confines of their current class. Some people might also view some of the classes themselves as immersion breaking in that, as an example almost every class seems to have class flavored restoration spells (and other schools) that, while preserving the internal consistency of what the class was designed to be, also violates the internal consistency of the established world. A hill I'm always willing to die on is that all of the weapons nightblade summons for it's class abilities are bound weapons and as such should be blue and shimmery by default because that's what bound weapons are.

By that same token only 4-5 necromancer abilities are actually in universe necromancy, the rest are just other schools re-flavored for visual consistency. Someone who wants to be a more lore consistent necromancer might want drop the bone tyrant and living death skill lines and replace them with some combination of shadow(illusion magic), daedric summoning(the other half of conjuration), restoring light (restoration magic) or one of the 3 elemental skill lines based on their preferred auxiliary destruction magic.

Not saying thematically consistent classes are a bad thing, I enjoy having characters with a consistent visual throughline. (Even with my thoughts that nightblade weapons should be blue, you can pry the color red from my cold dead hands.) I'm just saying that there's more than one side to thematic consistency and while some people prefer it to be based in the class they play other's prefer that consistency to come from the world and magic system functioning the way they expect it to, or in the way they build their character around a specific theme, element or weapon.

Zallion · April 26

LukosCreyden wrote: »

The thing that frustrates me is that "subclassing" sounds amazing for creative builds, immersion and general fun. However, some people who are focused purely on meta gaming are kinda squeezing the fun out of it. Not saying that it doesn't need balancing- it definitely does- but there are so many people in the forums who, for some bizarre reason, want to stick to the same tired old class set ups we have had for years. Muh class indentity. Muh current meta build.
Boring boring boring.

It’s more about the aesthetic and how the game feels to play rather than trying to stick to the status quo or current meta. For the past ten years the game has been built around classes that have defining characteristics, strengths, weaknesses, roles, color schemes, themes, power fantasies, etc etc. Unique things to each class that sets them apart from one another. The lightning wielding sorcerer that can teleport. The assassin nightblade who can go invisible. The Necromancer who can resurrect multiple allies at once. The warden who uses animals and nature. The Templar with sun magic and healing light and spears. The Dk with flame magic and martial prowess. The arcanist with runes and laser beams. The fun of playing and theorycrafting was making something within the guidelines of these classes that could be effective, unique, and creative. Now to take it all and mash it together? More options does not equate to more creativity in this scenario and context. It’s a mess, a “soup” as I’ve seen it referred to. This is what most people mean when referring to class identity being ruined. And it’s fair for so many people to be upset over that, for over 10 years that’s what this game has been built around, what people know and have come to love about the game. Now, we’re literally throwing that concept, all those defining features, all familiarity, out the window. It doesn’t fit. It’s actually immersion breaking, not immersive, to merge unrelated abilities and themes. That is the whole reason we have mains and alts, to experience the game with a different set of abilities (subclassing stunts the games replayability but that’s a whole other issue). To blend so many unrelated skills and skill lines, that were never meant to be blended or interact with each other in the first place objectively ruins that structure. If this game day one was built around learning random spells and combining them like Harry Potter then we wouldn’t be having this divide in the community, but that isn’t the case and that’s why we’re seeing a significant amount of backlash on the idea. People bought into this structure for ten years and now they want to change it. Now, as you have it with subclassing, if everyone can essentially do anything then nobody is special. Who cares that you can streak, so can my arcanist or any toon I so please. Is that what you think is immersive? That every character can basically do everything? And I don’t mean fill roles, I mean literally all skills and abilities. Homogeneous?

To dismiss the concerns of the impending meta is a mistake too. If you’re a solo player then sure it shouldn’t concern you. But you shouldn’t be the one catered to. This is an MMORPG. Group content is and should be important. And end game group content both PvE and PvP ALREADY is competitive without subclassing.
And make no mistake, the meta will be narrower, the barrier for entry into end game pve and pvp will be even higher barring Vengeance. The grind to get to end game for new players will be daunting. Why? Because this subclassing system will be mandatory to keep up. This isn’t power creep. It’s power leap. And anyone who does not adopt the system will be weaker, kicked from group from slowing people down, or instagibbed in pvp. That’s why the “choice” part is an illusion. In order to play the game effectively, in order to compete, you will need to adopt whatever subclassing meta arrises. And for those who echo “that’s how it is now though” it will be far, far worse.

I get why a lot people are excited for this system. I too, would like more options to build with and a shake up. But this is rushed and half baked, and ruins the integrity of what has been built thus far. I think those who are so dismissive of the players against subclassing need to ask themselves if this is friendly and easy to adopt and understand for new players, for players with limited play time, for the end game community as a whole. And think of it for the greater good, not for what crazy spec or combo you can get on your favorite toon. I think if the devs showed some transparency on this idea to the player base in advance they could have gauged and addressed many concerns prior to this steamrolling it’s way through the pts and moulded it into something that satisfies both sides of the issue in its design. What will go live will not be a huge departure from the current state on pts. The swinging balance changes to come will leave a wake of players who just don’t have the time to keep up or care to change playstyle to this degree. It’s almost a different game at that point, a lot of people feel that way, and it shouldn’t be dismissed.

randconfig · April 26

gc0018 wrote: »

The subclass smells like someone in the ZOS is forcing the Devs to achieve it at no matter what cost, generally, by someone has no idea about game development (maybe a finance, management, marketing guy) but eager to make achievement in the position. Many good games/technical companies died this way, I believe everyone can list a handful of them.

ZOS Devs team has 4 options to deal with subclass in current situation:

1-doing nothing and release at current setup,
result: only 4-8 out of 2,187 skill line combination is usable, numerous bugs-like combinations (forever invisible, undead tank etc), pure classes dead, not mention the PVE and PVP.

2-Nerf anything skill line that cause problem,
result: medium amount of work required. nerf storm come to everyone which like U35, may trigger the same massive quit. Also, the nerf storm will last for years, whenever a meta pop, storm comes.

3-Buff all the pure class and increase the difficulty of all PVE context accordingly,
result: massive amount of work required, hard for ZOS to make it on time.

4-Reduce the efficiency of the skilline only when it is used by subclassing,
result: medium amount of work required, need a lot of players to help on PTS. But it requires ZOS to rebuild the relationship with players.

I hope ESO can make it through...

Elvenheart wrote: »

I think the Conjured Ward skill should be swapped with something in Dark Magic to get it out of the Daedric Summoning line so no-pet sorcerers can get rid of that line but keep the shield.

I agree. They should take the ward off the Daedric Summoning line, make it no longer shield pets, and give pets a slight buff to their health.

Also I wish the storm calling skill line would give us the ability to call storms lol. Maybe an ability or morph of an existing ability that allows us to channel in place like the psijic order skill line's meditation, but instead of healing resources, it calls down a bolt of lightning periodically hitting nearby enemies.

sans-culottes · April 26

Lystrad wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

The problem with treating subclassing as pure “creativity” is that true creativity requires working within a meaningful symbolic framework. Simply grafting unrelated skill lines onto a character—such as mixing Sorcerer lightning, Warden ice, and Necromancer corpses—does not deepen creativity. It collapses thematic coherence into incoherent mechanical collage.

Players who care about class identity are not defending “the meta” as you frame it. They are defending the structural meaning of being, for example, a Necromancer: a figure who manipulates death and decay, not a generic magic user wielding a magma whip followed by their dutiful netch.

Subclassing, without meaningful constraints, threatens both balance and immersion. It removes the symbolic depth that makes the game world feel internally consistent and replaces it with a system where the only real logic is optimization, not narrative.

Mocking players who value internal consistency does not solve the mechanical or narrative problems subclassing introduces. It simply reveals an unwillingness to confront how much thematic structure underpins long-term engagement.

To be fair, many people who want subclassing want it specifically to work within self imposed constraints for the purpose of making their character more internally consistent than it currently is within the confines of their current class. Some people might also view some of the classes themselves as immersion breaking in that, as an example almost every class seems to have class flavored restoration spells (and other schools) that, while preserving the internal consistency of what the class was designed to be, also violates the internal consistency of the established world. A hill I'm always willing to die on is that all of the weapons nightblade summons for it's class abilities are bound weapons and as such should be blue and shimmery by default because that's what bound weapons are.

By that same token only 4-5 necromancer abilities are actually in universe necromancy, the rest are just other schools re-flavored for visual consistency. Someone who wants to be a more lore consistent necromancer might want drop the bone tyrant and living death skill lines and replace them with some combination of shadow(illusion magic), daedric summoning(the other half of conjuration), restoring light (restoration magic) or one of the 3 elemental skill lines based on their preferred auxiliary destruction magic.

Not saying thematically consistent classes are a bad thing, I enjoy having characters with a consistent visual throughline. (Even with my thoughts that nightblade weapons should be blue, you can pry the color red from my cold dead hands.) I'm just saying that there's more than one side to thematic consistency and while some people prefer it to be based in the class they play other's prefer that consistency to come from the world and magic system functioning the way they expect it to, or in the way they build their character around a specific theme, element or weapon.

You raise excellent points about the inconsistencies already embedded within the class system. I quite agree that Necromancer, for instance, leans heavily on Restoration and that Nightblade’s magical summons should, in strict lore terms, shimmer like other bound weapons.

Yet this seems to me all the more reason to tread carefully, rather than to fling open the gates. If minor structural cracks trouble us, then it is not clear that replacing them with an open-air market of thematically random attachments will yield a more coherent architecture.

It is a lovely dream that subclassing will allow players to self-curate more lore-faithful builds. My experience, however, suggests that players tend to optimize toward mechanical advantage first, and thematic consistency a very distant second.

Thus, the subclassing system may well empower the few who labor for coherence. But it will overwhelmingly reward those who, through no ill will, simply follow the mechanical incentives toward ever more incoherent but mathematically superior hybrids.

xylena_lazarow · April 26

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Handing-out a free 9% Crit Chance to NBs, which is the rarest and most jealously guarded stat in the game, is madness.

Not just that, but free 100% uptime on front bar Major Force, formerly a rare and jealously guarded buff, thanks to the new busted mythic. Subclassing is fine, but the NB changes feel like a 14yo NB main just discovered game modding.

phazongrave · April 26

-Did the sublcassling quest teach you everything you had to learn for using this system?
I was able to understand subclassing and what needed to be done to subclass
-Is there anything confusing about the UI or the methods to engage with Subclassing?
It was pretty straight forward and easy to understand
-How long did it take you to level up a subclassed skill line?
It took a few days to level up a skill line to max,
-Do you plan to use this feature when it goes live?
Honestly depends on how bad these blatant nerfs to some class skill lines are. i will leave some favorites strictly pure class builds since theyre my favorite.
-Did you have fun experimenting with the system?
It was a great time experimenting all the different combos of skill lines and how they affect each other.

SkaiFaith · April 27

Question for testers since I have no PTS - with subclassing, is the skill line the only thing that I need to level to unlock the skills, or each individual skill needs to be re-levelled to 4 to unlock the two possible morphs and those need to be re-levelled to 3 as well?
The latter would be bad IMO...

Freelancer_ESO · April 28

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Question for testers since I have no PTS - with subclassing, is the skill line the only thing that I need to level to unlock the skills, or each individual skill needs to be re-levelled to 4 to unlock the two possible morphs and those need to be re-levelled to 3 as well?
The latter would be bad IMO...

As of the current PTS you need to level up the skills and the morphs.

But, since leveling up the skill lines requires slotting the skills they will be leveling up with the skill lines so it's not that much worse provided you aren't using both morphs on every skill.

You'll also only need to do the leveling again once for the entire account for subclassing.

baratron · April 28

Why is the Subclassing quest only in your Alliance Tier 5 zone and not in all three of them?

Why does it matter whether I go to Reaper's March, The Rift, or Bangkorai to do the quest?

katorga · April 28

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Handing-out a free 9% Crit Chance to NBs, which is the rarest and most jealously guarded stat in the game, is madness.

Revert the flanking bonus back to Pen so that it cannot contribute to power-creep in PvE.

Remember when Crit Chance was globally nerfed as a set item bonus many years ago? Yeah, you are undoing that change for no particular reason except that this time it is handed to only a single class vs. being available to all players via sets.

that's the truth....almost every build, pvp and pve, utilizing Assassination. It is just too power dense.

caffeinatedkit · April 28

My feedback is with subclassing, we're gonna need a lot more armory build slots...I'm already maxed out on my main character and the patch hasn't even launched yet.

xylena_lazarow · April 28

katorga wrote: »

that's the truth....almost every build, pvp and pve, utilizing Assassination. It is just too power dense.

The PTS dueling meta is already dominated by Assassin + Restoring Light + Shalks/Blastbones, but really anything abusing the Assassin line is gonna be broken op and miserable to fight against. Counter their two shot insta kill? They immediately drop another 20k bow combo. Counter both bows? They spam 9k Surprise Attacks each attached to 3k Sundered procs. Counter those? Time for more two more 20k bow instant kill combos in a row.

I guess some people like low TTK gaming where you blink and you die instantly, but I don't think this is the right PvP for that. It's not advertised that way. Players generally enjoy Warden/DK/Templar metas because those classes play fair, and hate Sorc/NB metas because those classes don't. Assassin builds don't even need to be in melee range to two shot, bow/shalks hits from medium range, bow/blastbones can hit from MagSorc range.

StarOfElyon · April 28

None of this makes sense ZOS!
Do you really not see the concerns we've been expressing since day one?