TOP 3 Worst ESO Changes in 11 Years

Veinblood1965 · April 21

Recent changes to NB stealth

Population cap lowering in Cyrodiil. We think it is around 60 to 80 people per faction now. The wait times are a pain now.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned this but the Guild Vendor listing changes from 30 days to 14 days. It killed the people who enjoy earning gold.

MZ333 · April 21

1. U35+CyroTests1&2+AWA - killed my friends (list), my PvP & PvE/Social/Trade Guilds (rosters), and reduced my 17 Alt Characters down to 6 Classes developed over the course of over five years. The next five years has been a shallow shadow of that first five.
2. The incremental removal of things that made ESO, ESO. Overload 3rd bar. Sweeping procs cant proc proc sets, procs only in combat all or nothing changes. Lich only in combat, why? Black and white. Wood Elf I had for years specifically for Justice System, a character I did not want to have a tail or I would have made a Khajiit instead. So many things. Even Memento changes, from playful innocuous Smoke Ball to combat interactions such as stealth bonus from crow whistle. Just all these removals and consolidating of ways to play and experience the game in unique and fun ways, interesting combinations from set to set and class to class and all the permutations in between. Like nothing works together anymore, or in unique ways, much less multiple unique ways. Its all just the same thing in different colors now. Too many little things to even begin to list patch after patch. Gone. Nothing has been added in terms of my #2, only removed for the last five years since the Msft acquisition. Homogenized, yes; but also small things that add up just… deleted.
3. U46. I dont have to wait beyond notes and 10 years of precedence. No elaboration necessary, nor desirable. Scale of 1-3. U46. 3. Yep. 1 Character. No friends. No craft bag. U46.

JanTanhide · April 21

Xarc wrote: »

Hi
It's the anniversary jubilee, another opportunity to take stock of this.

What is for you the TOP 3 worst changes in the game in 11 years ?

for me it was:
1. account wide achievement
2. tamriel unlimited: the fact that you can start from any location regardless of your base faction (besides doing the quests of the other factions, which goes back to the game's release, but I always found it completely stupid)
3. vampire ultimate change. omg it's so ugly I much preferred the ultimate in the swarm of bats

I don't know if it was bad for the game, it just annoyed me and it still annoys me today

And you ?

And Update 35. That was the last straw for me. Guilds disappeared seemingly overnight due to that update. So many people left to never return. To me it was the end of ESO.

Veinblood1965 · April 21

JanTanhide wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

Hi
It's the anniversary jubilee, another opportunity to take stock of this.

What is for you the TOP 3 worst changes in the game in 11 years ?

for me it was:
1. account wide achievement
2. tamriel unlimited: the fact that you can start from any location regardless of your base faction (besides doing the quests of the other factions, which goes back to the game's release, but I always found it completely stupid)
3. vampire ultimate change. omg it's so ugly I much preferred the ultimate in the swarm of bats

I don't know if it was bad for the game, it just annoyed me and it still annoys me today

And you ?

And Update 35. That was the last straw for me. Guilds disappeared seemingly overnight due to that update. So many people left to never return. To me it was the end of ESO.

U35 didn't bother me so much however you are correct. That update caused a massive player exodus from which ESO still has not recovered. Immediately my guild chats went from being lively and full of chat to nothing but crickets. Then along came the Vendor change i mentioned previously and that caused anyone who's main focus was vendoring to quit entirely. I was in four trading guilds and am now down two and thinking about quitting one due to not worth the time as one, there are not enough people left actually buying anything other than mats, and two the 14 day time on selling items not worth the time.

ChuckyPayne · April 21

1) Removing Eso sub, introduce ESO+
2) Crown Crates

Dragonredux · April 21

1) U35 and Jabs/Flurry animation change - Probably the worst patch in the game's history. My last friend left this game after this launched coupled with the fact that Jabs and Flurry got ruined.

2) Group Size change - Guild planning and coordination got way more annoying and just made the game less social in general for no gain.

3) Vampire and Werewolf getting changed or nerfed into a laughing stock.

barney2525 · April 21

Xarc wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Tamriel unlimited doesn't count. They fixed it. You always start either in Wailing Prison or your Faction starter zone.

Stuff that got fixed should not be on this list.

No.
You still can start quest in another faction, after tutorial.
A tutorial is a tutorial, it's not a fix.

Tamriel Unlimited is exactly that, there are no more limits, everyone can go wherever they want, in terms of RP it's a disaster.
But everyone is free to respect this or not, if they wish.
Before Tamriel Unlimited, the wayside shrines in other alliance zones weren't even available until you completed the main quest. It actually made sense.

One Tamriel is the result of smoothing out the levels across all of Tamriel. Previously, each zone was leveled, a level 10 character would be one-shotted by a level 40 mudcrab; it wasn't possible to rush through zones too quickly.
On the other hand, the power of a level 50 character was too great compared to the starting zones.

The OneTamriel + Tamriel Unlimited combination is what we have today.
I have nothing against One Tamriel; it's Tamriel Unlimited that bothers me.

The Tutorial is More than a Tutorial. It is actually More ' Beginning Main Questline ' than it is a tutorial.
Sure, you can Teleport anywhere AFTER you are out of the Wailing prison, but you can Not designate a different initial landing point. You leave Coldharbor and end up waking up on your Faction starting Island. And yes, From There you can go anywhere.

But THAT is kind of the point of the Game. You play the way You want. They put you at your Faction Start, but they do Nort force ANYTHING on you as far as what quests you want to do or even IF you want to stay there or not.

Pepegrillos · April 21

They are just too many changes to list, but I'd say those made with standardization in mind (the SBE spreadsheets and all that kind of balance that could be made by AI) are the worse of all. The direction combat has taken in recent years speaks horribly of the combat team.

Ragnarok0130 · April 21

Xarc wrote: »

Hi
It's the anniversary jubilee, another opportunity to take stock of this.

What is for you the TOP 3 worst changes in the game in 11 years ?

for me it was:
1. account wide achievement
2. tamriel unlimited: the fact that you can start from any location regardless of your base faction (besides doing the quests of the other factions, which goes back to the game's release, but I always found it completely stupid)
3. vampire ultimate change. omg it's so ugly I much preferred the ultimate in the swarm of bats

I don't know if it was bad for the game, it just annoyed me and it still annoys me today

And you ?

I love AWA and tamriel unlimited (I didn't like being killed on site when you went into other alliances' areas - but it was neat), and I 100% agree with the vampire ult, I loved the bat swarm.

My worst changes typically have to do with patches but I do wish that monster shoulders still dropped in normal dungeons instead of having to play the RNG game with keys or wait for the golden vendor. Another bad change IMO was making the subscription optional because we got all of the super aggressive over priced monetization and loot boxes.

EDIT: and reducing the large group number in cyro, it was epic back then but I understand why the change was made.

BXR_Lonestar · April 21

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The AWA cured any motivation to make an alt. And U35 broke something in me.

How does AWA destroy any motivation to make an alt? I think it creates MORE incentive to create an alt character because now you are not limited to just one character to try to get all of the achievements. So I can play on my main character and get some PVE/storyline/crafter oriented achievements, and then I can hop on my DPS and do some Dungeon achievements, and then on a different character to get some PVP achievements - and they all contribute to my overall achievements.

I see AWA as being an incentive - not a detriment - to creating new characters.

IMO, this is one of those glass half full - glass half empty issues. It's all in how you look at it.

TaSheen · April 21

Snamyap wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

Given that achievements in video games do not have any meaningful value to me, I’d say subclassing. Account-wide achievements didn’t bother me, nor did they make it worthless to play on other characters. It just made achievements more streamlined. This new pseudo-multiclassing system is a mess, though.

Achievements were a way to keep track on what you're alt has done and what content still could be done. If you're not into alts it won't matter, but it greatly reduced the replayability of the game.

Not for some of us. I never needed achievements for any sort of tracking of any of my girls.

Scaletho · April 21

For me:

1. Total lack of our character's RACE RECOGNITION

2. The mess of do whatever quest you want with the consequences of relegate the AMAZING Main Quest almost to oblivion (it should be the introduction quest) AND make new players lost in the game, not knowing what to do first.

3. The insistence to NOT separate PVP to PVE regarding the nerfind/boost of gear sets. PVE gear sets should be much less nerfed in PVE environment even if they are in PVP environment.

AzuraFan · April 21

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The AWA cured any motivation to make an alt. And U35 broke something in me.

How does AWA destroy any motivation to make an alt? I think it creates MORE incentive to create an alt character because now you are not limited to just one character to try to get all of the achievements. So I can play on my main character and get some PVE/storyline/crafter oriented achievements, and then I can hop on my DPS and do some Dungeon achievements, and then on a different character to get some PVP achievements - and they all contribute to my overall achievements.

I see AWA as being an incentive - not a detriment - to creating new characters.

IMO, this is one of those glass half full - glass half empty issues. It's all in how you look at it.

True, so there will be players who don't mind it, and those who do. I'm in the do camp. I agree with you that making some of the achievements account wide was good. As I've said before, if they'd just made the grindy ones account-wide, I'd have been fine with it. But they didn't.

For me, the only reason to start an alt is to play through the story again. I'm also an achievement hunter, so playing through the story with no achievements doesn't appeal. Also, entering a zone with an alt, only to see a lot of the map already completed, doesn't appeal. So for me, it killed my desire to play my alts.

Northwold · April 21

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

The AWA cured any motivation to make an alt. And U35 broke something in me.

How does AWA destroy any motivation to make an alt? I think it creates MORE incentive to create an alt character because now you are not limited to just one character to try to get all of the achievements. So I can play on my main character and get some PVE/storyline/crafter oriented achievements, and then I can hop on my DPS and do some Dungeon achievements, and then on a different character to get some PVP achievements - and they all contribute to my overall achievements.

I see AWA as being an incentive - not a detriment - to creating new characters.

IMO, this is one of those glass half full - glass half empty issues. It's all in how you look at it.

I agree with you. Before AWA my reaction to the idea of alts was "there is absolutely NO way I'm going through all that again".

The way it was done, which made it hard to track where you were in story terms, was not perfect. But not having to grind *the entire game* ab initio really was not a bad thing.

katanagirl1 · April 21

There are a lot of little things, like the lack of dev response to Rush of Agony that acts just like Dark Convergence and pulls people off siege, but doesn’t give you an aoe warning, and the jabs change, and grim focus permaglow (but that one is getting fixed).

The big ones I guess are:
1. Hybridization
2. Scribing
3. Subclasses (when it hits)
4. U35 if that was the one where they made dots every two seconds

AWA takes an honorable mention not because I think it would have been a bad thing, but it’s half-um… “hearted” implementation that benefits ZOS for monetization of things for alts but requires furnishing plan knowledge and eidetic memory not be account wide. Tell me that isn’t causing massive database issues and I won’t believe it.

spartaxoxo · April 21

In no particular order....

Overload bar removal

Jabs change

Removal of small zone dlc

Group size change

spartaxoxo · April 21

Xarc wrote: »

Horace-Wimp wrote: »

I always try to be sure that when I do something for the first time in the game I do it on my main...

Yeh I know how you feel... unfortunately
And the fact of having achievements forever locked by characters that I personally consider secondary, I don't really like that. While I carefully leveled each character before the famous AwA reform, everything was turned upside down and today just to craft a set I struggle to know if this character has the style in question or not since even if I unlocked the achievement it is not clearly indicated, I have to go to the crafting table and check each time it is very tedious, and that is only for crafting

I don't know, I increasingly feel like I'm not a player but a customer on ESO. And it's not very pleasant, to be honest.

@Xarc

If your character knows the style, it will be in your lore library. You can hit show achievement from there to see if any of your characters know it.

Ascarl wrote: »

Sir Cadwell not voiced by John Cleese anymore

Wait, what? Who plays him now? ☹️

ArchangelIsraphel · April 22

Hey kids! This thread is brought to you today by the letters:

And by the number:

Dojohoda · April 22

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Hey kids! This thread is brought to you today by the letters:

And by the number:

oh my goodness, I love this, it's so funny!

VvwvenomwvV · April 22

There is always something that people will complain about. It's impossible to make everyone happy. The people at Zos are people. They are probably really tired of the negativity. At least they don't troll us like some developers do on other games. That being said, if there is one thing that I had to pick that I wish they would change, it would be staves and how they operate.

I didn't like the idea of taking cleave away from the lightning staff and just making the final splash damage higher. There are times where you may not be able to channel the full duration to the final tick. Having cleave on the Arcanist beam and taking it away from the lightning staff seemed like Zos put cleave behind a paywall. Zos also reduced the number of ticks from 4 to 3, and reduced Empower from 80% to 70%.

One idea I've floated a couple of times that I'd like to see added is the ability to toggle your stave damage from single to multi-target.

Imagine having a flame staff that could be a fireball, or a flamethrower. A frost staff that can be a blizzard, or a snowball. A lightning staff than can be ball lightning, or a current / channel. A healing staff that has a healing a.o.e. or a channel.

Anyway, it's just a thought.

Personofsecrets · April 22

- Removal of classic game components like dynamic ultimate generation or stam regen while blocking (not that these things matter now, they don't)
- Changes to DK skills such as Removal of Refelective DK wings or Stone giant becoming a super awkward skill to use
- New classes having abilities which contribute to the overshadowing of DK as a valid tank choice
- Bonus: The creation of mora and overtuning of ToT cards like Cusoms Seizure or Cephora's Insight or Festival of Forbearance.

PrayingSeraph · April 22

I cant believe I initially wanted and advocated AWA. Its been been of my biggest ESO regrets.

Soarora · April 22

I joined in 2019 so I didn't see the Morrowind and one Tamriel shenanigans. Thus:

1. AWA
2. U35
3. Writing direction

Heelie · April 22

I think in terms of updates:

3: Update 33 AWA. What is hilarious here is that it's just the implementation that is bad... Had they kept character and account achievements separate it would work.

2: Update 18 crownstore gifting - speaks for itself...

1: Update 46 subclasses: there's no doubt that this change is for the worse, I am pretty confident this will go down as the worst change so far...

Qagh · April 22

1. AwA
2. CP 2.0
3. Subclassing

Snamyap · April 22

sans-culottes wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

sans-culottes wrote: »

Given that achievements in video games do not have any meaningful value to me, I’d say subclassing. Account-wide achievements didn’t bother me, nor did they make it worthless to play on other characters. It just made achievements more streamlined. This new pseudo-multiclassing system is a mess, though.

Achievements were a way to keep track on what you're alt has done and what content still could be done. If you're not into alts it won't matter, but it greatly reduced the replayability of the game.

@Snamyap, I don’t mind alts at all. I’ve just never really cared about achievements, in ESO or on any other platform.

If tracking that kind of progress across characters adds to your enjoyment, then that’s completely valid. But for me, the sense of satisfaction others describe when unlocking a Steam achievement or PSN trophy simply isn’t something I experience. So while account-wide achievements may have reduced replayability for some, they didn’t impact how I engage with the game.

Subclassing (or more precisely, multiclassing) on the other hand, does affect my play experience. That is because it reshapes class identity and build design at a structural level. That’s where my concern lies.

I don't care much for achievements an sich either. I do care about keeping track what characters have and haven't done. Bit of an complitionist for that.

Ragnarok0130 · April 22

Scaletho wrote: »

For me:

1. Total lack of our character's RACE RECOGNITION

2. The mess of do whatever quest you want with the consequences of relegate the AMAZING Main Quest almost to oblivion (it should be the introduction quest) AND make new players lost in the game, not knowing what to do first.

3. The insistence to NOT separate PVP to PVE regarding the nerfind/boost of gear sets. PVE gear sets should be much less nerfed in PVE environment even if they are in PVP environment.

Excellent points. My main is an Imperial yet none of the factions have an inherent distrust of me as an Imperial despite all of the Daedra infestations being a result of the Empire.

100% on your point of not separating PVE/PVP balancing. It’s been a longtime peeve of mine with ESO. I’m also on board with your quest points. Spot on!

LadyGP · April 22

1) U35 - game is still recovering from this game imo
2) Class identity - it's gone
3) Subclassing - see above

master_vanargand · April 22

1. The Golden Pursuits
2. Endeavor
3. Login bonus
4. New Battlegrounds (4v4, 8v8)

Games are not work. So, don't give players quotas.
Game creators should not control players by make them think "if you don't play, you lose out."
MMO RPGs are not pay-to-win games for smartphones.
Like UO, it should have been a freedom sandbox game with no dailies, and I liked it that way.
I've been mentally exhausted since "Login bonus" and "Endeavor" and "The Golden Pursuits" came out, so I've played ESO much less frequently.
I want to live freely in the world of The Elder Scrolls, not play a quota game where players just complete dailies by imitating a cheap smartphone game.

Battlegrounds has been completely destroyed. It's just garbage now.
Old BGs never knew how the game would turn until the very end, and the sense of accomplishment when managed to turn it around with clever play was special.
Even if came in second, you still got the daily reward, so group members didn't give up until the very end.
So what about now? 4v4 is garbage. Players who give up if they can't win within three minutes stop doing anything. It's also the worst that there is only one respawn point.
8v8? Ballgroup vs Ballgroup. It's stupid.
4v4v4 was a lot of fun. But new BGs is ass.

Mrtoobyy · April 22

1. I would want to say One Tamriel but just because of how easy overland became. Other than that I like the concept of One Tamriel.
2. The PVP "balancing"
3. Removal of 4v4v4 BG's

Even though Ive mained a Templar since beta I dont dislike the jabs change as much as other people but I would love for it to be reverted.
In general the game has improved in alot of ways. The main thing that keeps me from playing as much is the lack of incentives for "veteran" players.

The only thing I do with my main is BGs and craft nowadays