Get rid of Rushing Agony from PvP right NOW please

xylena_lazarow · March 25

ruskiii wrote: »

Or run immov pots?

This categorically makes your build worse for 45sec, you're giving up one of your very significant Major regen buffs just to deal with a single proc set in the meta for a whole 15sec (and then RoA kills you anyway while it's on cooldown). Yes I know you can make your build even worse to increase your uptime on detection. This is called warping the meta.

Thumbless_Bot · March 25

Zallion wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

Zallion wrote: »

Oh no argument to it being a rare and funny occurrence. Rush should be nerfed though, not cause of this one off match, but for the multitude of reasons stated in this thread.

I've seen people in this thread claiming rush should get nerfed because it can pull when you are already cc immune. Half the people raging in this thread don't know what they are even mad about. There are legitimate complaints too, but the thread is being fluffed by people who don't understand why they are jumping on the anti-rush bandwagon. That being said, with the level of complaining coming from the playerbase, a nerf is probably inevitable. I just hope they don't go too far, or remove it from pvp altogether, that would be a shame.

Yeah I wouldn’t want it gutted necessarily. Solo bombing has its place and this set helps enable that. But there’s too much power in the set imo, and it is typically only really a major problem with ballgroups in cyro. My bg match was just an account of me noting vet nbs who don’t typically run rush are now in a seemingly trolly sorta way. Main pain points imo, cc immunity, desync pulls, los pulls, much too short cooldown for what the proc does, and poor telegraph. I’m okay with the damage, the radius is fine if the desync isn’t outrageous. But being pulled through walls well outside the radius is pretty annoying. I don’t think it needs to be deleted but it just breaks too many rules. Your before mention of acuity wardens, not comparable in my mind. Strong sure. Vs 6 of them woof that would suck too. Strong spec absolutely, but the spec doesn’t bend or break rules the rest of the procs in the game follow like RoA does. It’s actually predictable and has a reasonable cooldown. Vs 6 anything comped sucks i agree. But I’d rather fight strong specs instead of actually broken ones. Also, i don’t think I’ve ever seen the community so unified in the decision to nerf anything to this degree.

Ngl, while i agree that acuitydens are a different problem, I'd be 100% fine if they yeeted acuity from pvp as well. I'm not asking for that, but I've never used it, don't like the concept of it, and think it's a bit cheezy.

Zallion · March 25

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Zallion wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

Zallion wrote: »

Oh no argument to it being a rare and funny occurrence. Rush should be nerfed though, not cause of this one off match, but for the multitude of reasons stated in this thread.

I've seen people in this thread claiming rush should get nerfed because it can pull when you are already cc immune. Half the people raging in this thread don't know what they are even mad about. There are legitimate complaints too, but the thread is being fluffed by people who don't understand why they are jumping on the anti-rush bandwagon. That being said, with the level of complaining coming from the playerbase, a nerf is probably inevitable. I just hope they don't go too far, or remove it from pvp altogether, that would be a shame.

Yeah I wouldn’t want it gutted necessarily. Solo bombing has its place and this set helps enable that. But there’s too much power in the set imo, and it is typically only really a major problem with ballgroups in cyro. My bg match was just an account of me noting vet nbs who don’t typically run rush are now in a seemingly trolly sorta way. Main pain points imo, cc immunity, desync pulls, los pulls, much too short cooldown for what the proc does, and poor telegraph. I’m okay with the damage, the radius is fine if the desync isn’t outrageous. But being pulled through walls well outside the radius is pretty annoying. I don’t think it needs to be deleted but it just breaks too many rules. Your before mention of acuity wardens, not comparable in my mind. Strong sure. Vs 6 of them woof that would suck too. Strong spec absolutely, but the spec doesn’t bend or break rules the rest of the procs in the game follow like RoA does. It’s actually predictable and has a reasonable cooldown. Vs 6 anything comped sucks i agree. But I’d rather fight strong specs instead of actually broken ones. Also, i don’t think I’ve ever seen the community so unified in the decision to nerf anything to this degree.

Ngl, while i agree that acuitydens are a different problem, I'd be 100% fine if they yeeted acuity from pvp as well. I'm not asking for that, but I've never used it, don't like the concept of it, and think it's a bit cheezy.

It’s the cheesiest of the cheese. But it’s so predictable and easy to counter (unlike rush) that it is really only effective vs pugs. Not that I don’t die to it every now and again, but not super often as I just avoid the northern radius. I’ve played it, strong but less fun. Lots of multi kill potential. You can walk over pugs like a giant eraser. It’s an ego boost build. But the counter to it is.. avoid the storm and the melee range class script charm. Acuity has such a long cooldown it does leave an ample window to counter. But yeah, automated gameplay. Admittedly strong, but doesn’t need an adjustment. Only slight adjustment necessary would be warden class script telegraph.

ruskiii · March 25

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Bombers and 1vX existed before RoA, they'll exist after. I'd suggest rethinking "bombing" beyond unfair instagib mechanics, Storm Wardens bomb, my Thrive/Talons DK bombs, a concept I took from Thrive/Laser Arc bombers...

I don't think nerfing/removing rush would end bombing, adding a condition to dark con that you need to be in combat to proc it doesn't stop people using it, my bomber doesn't use a pull set at all. I just don't like seeing interesting/unique sets removed from the game, or homogenised to match other sets.

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a place for sets like war-maiden's/swamp raider (sets that are essentially the same with different conditions). But making all sets follow that same pattern with no exceptions seems boring and a waste of potential.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but the lobby I'm leaving is the one with no fun/no win condition, they are a waste of time. The rushblade scenario is easier to counter than wardens or sorcs, you have opportunity to wipe them even as a solo player, and not just avoid them. If ZOS listened to everyone who wanted to remove something annoying... the majority wouldn't just want to get rid of Rush, the casual hivemind would remove ganking/bombing/1vXing in a heartbeat.

Now as far as NBs being hard to see... if they were wearing rush or not, seeing 6 of them in one lobby means you should have detects at least slotted. Immov/detect pots will reveal the rushblades and stop their pulls from effecting you at the same time. The whole build is hard countered by a potion and pressing block at the right time.

JobooAGS wrote: »

I run tri stat primarily. And depending on how annoying things get, detect/immov. Even so, there are plenty that don’t, and that alone will kill you via VD procs.

Sometimes you can vault or streak out of the way, but not everyone’s a sorc and good luck counting more than what you can on your hands the number of people who legitimately use vault lol.

I do believe you gotta suck it up and accept deaths from time to time, especially with the broken MMR system right now. Counting on your teammates to have damage/healing/basic game knowledge is unrealistic.

So right about vault users lol, there's that guy on NA right now, not naming names, trying his vault build and all he does is lotus fan into you and immob vault away... does 0 damage. I had to stop and watch it as he was doing it to me... I asked him what he thought he was accomplishing lol. Tbf, it was a little annoying in a group fight because the immob was looking like my controller was dying, and he was constantly spamming it.

xylena_lazarow · March 25

ruskiii wrote: »

I don't think nerfing/removing rush would end bombing

It won't and shouldn't? That was my comment at the end about rethinking what "bombing" means. Nerfing Rush would however, justifiably remove the sweaty constant persistent long range threat of suddenly being sucked into a black hole and instakilled, from someone invisible or off screen, usually with no telegraph (cmon you know this game).

In case we forgot, another reminder that my skill doesn't even matter, if my allies aren't as sweaty as me, they'll explode on me and I'll still die. The Rush player, whether solo or balled up, is still just pressing 2 buttons into spam, and letting an automated proc turn the half the battlefield upside down out nowhere.

There have been matches where I'll kill the RushBlade a dozen times, and then I get unlucky once, my team wins anyway, but it doesn't matter, I rage quit anyway because screw this. If I'm supposed to avoid my own team in PvP then I guess I should avoid the whole game just to be safe.

ruskiii · March 25

@xylena_lazerow why are you telling me to rethink bombing when i dont use rush tho? The rest of your points i answered in the last comment.

ruskiii · March 25

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

Or run immov pots?

This categorically makes your build worse for 45sec, you're giving up one of your very significant Major regen buffs just to deal with a single proc set in the meta for a whole 15sec (and then RoA kills you anyway while it's on cooldown). Yes I know you can make your build even worse to increase your uptime on detection. This is called warping the meta.

Immov/detect is main pot on my nbs, i dont build into stam at all. The immov means you dont need to break free and vigour is my main heal.

ioResult · March 25

ruskiii wrote: »

Immov/detect is main pot on my nbs, i dont build into stam at all. The immov means you dont need to break free and vigour is my main heal.

Don't we see you far more often on a DK and other brawly/healy toons? Do you do anything other than run in an RoA group on your NB?

ruskiii · March 25

ioResult wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

Immov/detect is main pot on my nbs, i dont build into stam at all. The immov means you dont need to break free and vigour is my main heal.

Don't we see you far more often on a DK and other brawly/healy toons? Do you do anything other than run in an RoA group on your NB?

About time someone recognised I'm a DK main. Not sure where you are getting the rush group from tho. My NBs are rats or bombers, and never rush. Running rush would mean changing a lot and generally less effective than my range bomber, unless its a comped 4v4 group then rushblade would be better ig.

xylena_lazarow · March 25

ruskiii wrote: »

xylena_lazerow why are you telling me to rethink bombing when i dont use rush tho?

You don't play RushBlade at all? Have you ever? If not, try it, especially if you can get a chance to do it in a comp group. Then compare what you're doing with Rush to Warden Storms or Destro X or whatever other form of bombing.

ruskiii · March 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

You don't play RushBlade at all? Have you ever?

I will when it's OP

xylena_lazarow · March 26

ruskiii wrote: »

I will when it's OP

The sweatiest op minmax ball groups in Cyro use RoA strats. Do you know something they don't?

ruskiii · March 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

I will when it's OP

The sweatiest op minmax ball groups in Cyro use RoA strats. Do you know something they don't?

I know we were talking about battlegrounds a second ago, not minmaxed cyro groups. Even in BGs having a rushblade lead group and run pulls is S tier comp but that is a niche role that it fills well. You know me Xy, you know I am playing solo BGs most of the time. You've also seen my bomb wipe all 8 enemy players at once, without rush.... so I don't know why we are talking like this. Feels like the goalposts are being moved, while people are talking about rush very emotionally.

Joy_Division · March 26

ruskiii wrote: »

Zallion wrote: »

Oh no argument to it being a rare and funny occurrence. Rush should be nerfed though, not cause of this one off match, but for the multitude of reasons stated in this thread.

I've seen people in this thread claiming rush should get nerfed because it can pull when you are already cc immune. Half the people raging in this thread don't know what they are even mad about. There are legitimate complaints too, but the thread is being fluffed by people who don't understand why they are jumping on the anti-rush bandwagon. That being said, with the level of complaining coming from the playerbase, a nerf is probably inevitable. I just hope they don't go too far, or remove it from pvp altogether, that would be a shame.

That's the point though. When debating the merits of anything, people who give wrong or misleading information should not distract or decide from the actual issue.

Though I would say there is a lot of reason for the false information being provided: the set violates a core principle of the game which no doubt is the source of much confusion. So a large source of the raging you dislike is one of the legitimate complaints about the set.

Now, on the surface your philosophy sounds a lot like mine. I hate nerfs and I hate to see people complaining about them and hate it when the devs are cowed into making a change just to appease a vocal group of people (and I also agree with you this is precisely what happened to Azureblight). So we are of two minds there. My question is, why is this trash rule breaking crutch set so special it needs to be saved, it is worth drawing a line in the sand, does this set actually make the game better, more interesting, more appealing, more skillful? ZOS could not possibly go far enough such that the mechanic of an AoE pull, high damage, high frequency, ball group meta defining, core rule-breaking set might not ever be used again in any PvP scenario.

There were maybe about 3 times in ESO history that I thought a nerf was warranted/justified. RoA is absolutely one. Just because I dislike it when ZOS wields a nerfhammer doesn;t mean I should object when a nerfhammer is warranted.
Because, as you mentioned, there are legitimate complaints.

ruskiii · March 26

Joy_Division wrote: »

My question is, why is this trash rule breaking crutch set so special it needs to be saved, it is worth drawing a line in the sand, does this set actually make the game better, more interesting, more appealing, more skillful? ZOS could not possibly go far enough such that the mechanic of an AoE pull, high damage, high frequency, ball group meta defining, core rule-breaking set might not ever be used again in any PvP scenario.

My point, even if it is an unpopular one, is that yes... rush of agony does make the game more fun. I like the idea of outlier "rule-breaking" sets, in this case cc immunity. RoA is the only set in the game that let's you run a double pull build and that is cool imo. I would like to see other sets do interesting unique things too. If you remove every interesting set from pvp, and make it as appealing to as many people as possible, regardless of whether they enjoy ESO pvp or not, it eventually turns into Vengeance.

I don't fully disagree that some kind of change isn't appropriate for rush, I like the idea of giving it a static pull point. That would stop people having a reason to complain about the janky pull radius. I think probably zos will homogenise the set: increase the cooldown and remove the unique cc interaction. To me that's a sad thing, and I feel like I've been over this before in previous comment, but I hope that's as far as they go and don't remove it altogether.

I don't like the way the game has been going of separating sets by fully disabling them in pvp/pve. Plaguebreak was the first one I remember (my favourite pve set), then Azureblight was the only set that gave people a chance to fight ballgroups without being a ballgroup, but they removed that from pvp. I don't like that direction or how it is egged on by hot headed forum users, salivating at the thought of being able to exercise their will on the game because they can't handle dying every so often.

It's perfectly fair for someone to not appreciate rule-breaking sets, I hear it a lot from decent PVP players, it's just a sentiment I don't agree with. Those people can make their case, but before anything is decided I wanted to give a different point of view and throw my two cents into the echo-chamber.

xylena_lazarow · March 26

ruskiii wrote: »

You know me Xy, you know I am playing solo BGs most of the time. You've also seen my bomb wipe all 8 enemy players at once, without rush...

Which is why I don't get why you want to preserve it. Your own builds prove that Rush doesn't need to exist.

ruskiii · March 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

You know me Xy, you know I am playing solo BGs most of the time. You've also seen my bomb wipe all 8 enemy players at once, without rush...

Which is why I don't get why you want to preserve it. Your own builds prove that Rush doesn't need to exist.

I just like unique/interesting sets and don't like the direction the game is going in fully disabling sets for pvp/pve.

xylena_lazarow · March 26

ruskiii wrote: »

I just like unique/interesting sets

Plenty of unique sets around that don't break the game and literally make people quit. Rush isn't even that unique, Dark Con exists as a fair version of its effect, and there are fair short radius AoE pulls in Scribing and on Arc.

ruskiii · March 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

I just like unique/interesting sets

Plenty of unique sets around that don't break the game and literally make people quit. Rush isn't even that unique, Dark Con exists as a fair version of its effect, and there are fair short radius AoE pulls in Scribing and on Arc.

People quit over anything, usually a skill issue. Like dying too much to rush is a skill issue. Rush is unique because it is the only pull in the game that doesn't give cc immunity. Both Rush and Dark Con have large visual and audio telegraphs, they're both blockable. Dark Con is better against large groups when you are bombing because it has no pull cap. Rush is better for coordinated group because of a shorter cooldown but you have to risk more by fighting melee.

Talking about scribing pulls/knockbacks, my character has been bugged out more times by them than any other pull/stun in the game, rush included.

Joy_Division · March 26

ruskiii wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

My question is, why is this trash rule breaking crutch set so special it needs to be saved, it is worth drawing a line in the sand, does this set actually make the game better, more interesting, more appealing, more skillful? ZOS could not possibly go far enough such that the mechanic of an AoE pull, high damage, high frequency, ball group meta defining, core rule-breaking set might not ever be used again in any PvP scenario.

My point, even if it is an unpopular one, is that yes... rush of agony does make the game more fun. I like the idea of outlier "rule-breaking" sets, in this case cc immunity. RoA is the only set in the game that let's you run a double pull build and that is cool imo. I would like to see other sets do interesting unique things too. If you remove every interesting set from pvp, and make it as appealing to as many people as possible, regardless of whether they enjoy ESO pvp or not, it eventually turns into Vengeance.

I don't fully disagree that some kind of change isn't appropriate for rush, I like the idea of giving it a static pull point. That would stop people having a reason to complain about the janky pull radius. I think probably zos will homogenise the set: increase the cooldown and remove the unique cc interaction. To me that's a sad thing, and I feel like I've been over this before in previous comment, but I hope that's as far as they go and don't remove it altogether.

I don't like the way the game has been going of separating sets by fully disabling them in pvp/pve. Plaguebreak was the first one I remember (my favourite pve set), then Azureblight was the only set that gave people a chance to fight ballgroups without being a ballgroup, but they removed that from pvp. I don't like that direction or how it is egged on by hot headed forum users, salivating at the thought of being able to exercise their will on the game because they can't handle dying every so often.

It's perfectly fair for someone to not appreciate rule-breaking sets, I hear it a lot from decent PVP players, it's just a sentiment I don't agree with. Those people can make their case, but before anything is decided I wanted to give a different point of view and throw my two cents into the echo-chamber.

It's fine to give a point of view and there is value to breaking an echo-chamber. It is something I do appreciate when nerf threads proliferate on these forums.

With RoA though, there are legitimate reasons why there is an echo chamber. My question to you would be: who find the game more fun with the RoA set? The user, right? Of course something is going to be fun to use when it is so powerful that it allows you to break the core rules of the game. Who doesn't like feeling like a god? If the Javelin skill did not grant the target CC immunity, then my templar would be a hell of a lot more fun to play.

So this is the point where we have to recognize that this is a multi-player game and have to ask ourselves is whether or not the rush of making some people feel like gods while clubbing baby seals is worth the price of making the game decidedly unfun for chain CC targets. There was a reason the 7 second CC immunity exists.

I do lose fights, especially now that I've taken so many extended breaks from the game that I am not nearly as good as I once was, so I know what it's like to be on the receiving end of skills, abilities, or sets that make me lose. But the thing is, when I am beaten by another player who uses traditional or at least not busted skills, gears, and sets, it inspires me to think about my own build, my own gameplay, in how I can be a better player. I tell myself the reason I lost was because the other player had a better build or played better.

When I am yanked across the screen and then CCed again by fear and then instakilled by 11 whirling blades, dawnbreakers, and warden shalks, there in no inspiration, no introspection, and certainly no fun. I am not being killed by skilled gameplay or clever use of unappreciated abilities. I am being killed by a busted set that enables the user to do things the devs decided 15 years ago in Beta was a bad thing: chain CCing people. I know this because when they use a similar set that respects the CC rules, i.e., Dark Convergence, they usually do not instakill me. That is the definition of a carry or crutch set.

There are certain rules that it can be fine to break. But there needs to be a downside, which pretty much every other game does when granting players such powerful effects - even in single player games where we don;t have to worry about human targets. RoA has zero downsides. Also it matters what rules are being broke. Something giving dynamic ulti, for example, would be an interesting set if it came with a drawback. This long established pattern is the classic Faustian bargain: if you want supernatural power, are you willing to pat the cost? That is interesting. RoA is nothing like that. It just grants players powers that quite frankly, should not be used against human opponents.

Thumbless_Bot · March 26

ruskiii wrote: »

w

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

I just like unique/interesting sets

Plenty of unique sets around that don't break the game and literally make people quit. Rush isn't even that unique, Dark Con exists as a fair version of its effect, and there are fair short radius AoE pulls in Scribing and on Arc.

People quit over anything, usually a skill issue. Like dying too much to rush is a skill issue. Rush is unique because it is the only pull in the game that doesn't give cc immunity. Both Rush and Dark Con have large visual and audio telegraphs, they're both blockable. Dark Con is better against large groups when you are bombing because it has no pull cap. Rush is better for coordinated group because of a shorter cooldown but you have to risk more by fighting melee.

Talking about scribing pulls/knockbacks, my character has been bugged out more times by them than any other pull/stun in the game, rush included.

I don't think it's fair to imply that all dying to roa is a skill issue. It's definitely true that a lot of people don't know how to block, but this is an oversimplification of a problem with a set that doesn't even work as it is advertised to.

Most importantly though, even if it did work as intended, it's too strong. Creative sets are great, when they work right and are balanced. Roa has neither of these qualities.

ruskiii · March 26

Please read my previous comments bud, because I feel like we mostly agree with each other. I like rush, I don't run rush on any builds right now and haven't for years, I find it fun and a nice addition to the build diversity of the game. I would like to see more sets like it (not pull sets, sets with a unique effect).

The two legit complaints about rush as I see it: 1) the pull is janky because the pull's final location is constantly updated as it is happening. To fix this give it a static location that it pulls to. 2) It doesn't give cc immunity after pulling. Not wanting any exceptions to cc rules in the game is a fair thing to want, and the "fix" is obvious... but I like the idea of having rare exceptions to the rules, so I hope that doesn't get changed.

Rush isn't that good outside of specific situations. Unfortunately for zerglings, leading a comp group is one of those situations. Rush is not a carry outside of those situations though. It is good for fast-paced, high octane, melee fighting; but most people running it outside of co-ordinated groups are not that good with it and are easy to kill. It's not like 1st gen oakensoul, or mara's balm. The efficacy and ubiquitousness of rush is blown way out of proportion in this thread. From reading it you would assume everyone and their nan is running rush, but that is not the case. Even people who do well with it don't always want to be playing the rush style that you are locked into while wearing it.

Now if you are getting yanked across the screen repeatedly, not even at the centre of the pull, you need to work on your awareness and learn to block when you see the gap close/chains or when you hear the sound of the chains shooting to you. Everyone gets caught off guard sometimes, but if it's happening enough that you feel like the set should be removed, there are things you could improve on (like being aware of NBs position, movement, if they are going to gap close, when was their last rush pull - are they on cooldown, etc.) It's a very generous window you have to block and negate the pull if you see/hear it coming.

xFocused · March 26

I'd just like to point out that for some reason they decided to make a change to dark con to where you now have to be in combat in order to proc the pull, which is fine, I have no issues with this one as I use DC on my Necro Bomber sometimes and prefer to brawl with it.

However...still no change to RoA? Lol. I don't get it. Again, last night, multiple comped groups spamming it everywhere and even though I've gotten better at countering it, the animation is still non-existent just about every time. You still hear the chains before you see them, myself and several others were STILL getting pulled way more than the set says it pulls you, you still get pulled through objects, off walls...I even somehow got yanked from the second floor of a resource tower to the resource flag, now please explain to me how this set isn't either broken or massively exploited?

I read all the replies here and again, I'm not even asking for the set to be removed, just looked at and adjusted because it's still way out performing and it's still a glitchy, broken mess of a set.

xylena_lazarow · March 26

ruskiii wrote: »

Like dying too much to rush is a skill issue.

It's demonstrably not a skill issue. No level of skill is blocking 200k worth of VD procs from non sweaty players, unless you count "avoid playing with your own team" as a form of skill? Also using Rush is like, minimal skill.

ruskiii · March 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

Like dying too much to rush is a skill issue.

It's demonstrably not a skill issue. No level of skill is blocking 200k worth of VD procs from non sweaty players, unless you count "avoid playing with your own team" as a form of skill? Also using Rush is like, minimal skill.

Positioning, awareness, detect/immov pots, blocking the pull. All those skill checks happen before VD procs. You can be mad at noobs about blowing you up, but if you are playing amongst them, it's live by the zerg, die by the zerg.

xylena_lazarow · March 26

ruskiii wrote: »

it's live by the zerg, die by the zerg

My 8 person BGs team is a zerg?

Do you have 360 degree vision? I don't.

Do you have 100% uptime on detection? I don't. And my build takes a major hit if I lose a Major regen buff.

Thumbless_Bot · March 26

ruskiii wrote: »

Please read my previous comments bud, because I feel like we mostly agree with each other. I like rush, I don't run rush on any builds right now and haven't for years, I find it fun and a nice addition to the build diversity of the game. I would like to see more sets like it (not pull sets, sets with a unique effect).

The two legit complaints about rush as I see it: 1) the pull is janky because the pull's final location is constantly updated as it is happening. To fix this give it a static location that it pulls to. 2) It doesn't give cc immunity after pulling. Not wanting any exceptions to cc rules in the game is a fair thing to want, and the "fix" is obvious... but I like the idea of having rare exceptions to the rules, so I hope that doesn't get changed.

Rush isn't that good outside of specific situations. Unfortunately for zerglings, leading a comp group is one of those situations. Rush is not a carry outside of those situations though. It is good for fast-paced, high octane, melee fighting; but most people running it outside of co-ordinated groups are not that good with it and are easy to kill. It's not like 1st gen oakensoul, or mara's balm. The efficacy and ubiquitousness of rush is blown way out of proportion in this thread. From reading it you would assume everyone and their nan is running rush, but that is not the case. Even people who do well with it don't always want to be playing the rush style that you are locked into while wearing it.

Now if you are getting yanked across the screen repeatedly, not even at the centre of the pull, you need to work on your awareness and learn to block when you see the gap close/chains or when you hear the sound of the chains shooting to you. Everyone gets caught off guard sometimes, but if it's happening enough that you feel like the set should be removed, there are things you could improve on (like being aware of NBs position, movement, if they are going to gap close, when was their last rush pull - are they on cooldown, etc.) It's a very generous window you have to block and negate the pull if you see/hear it coming.

Fair. I didn't read all of the back and forth.

Edit: to be fair again, the set is 100% not balanced even if your suggestions were implemented. It's too strong as is. It's basically dk chains up to 8 in an 8v8 bg or more in cyro every 8 seconds with no need to target, way too wide of a radius and no cc immunity. And it hits pretty hard.

ruskiii · March 26

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ruskiii wrote: »

it's live by the zerg, die by the zerg

My 8 person BGs team is a zerg?

Do you have 360 degree vision? I don't.

Do you have 100% uptime on detection? I don't. And my build takes a major hit if I lose a Major regen buff.

No, sometimes you get caught off guard, it's not the end of the world. It's not only rush that can do that. No reason to nuke a set or uninstall the game. Now if you genuinely believe that rush is everywhere and carrying people, and you DON'T change your build/save a dressing room you can switch to with counters to what you say is the worst blight in the game... that is a bit of a skill issue, no? At the very least it's punishing yourself with stubborness.

ruskiii · March 26

Thumbless_Bot wrote: »

Fair. I didn't read all of the back and forth.

Edit: to be fair again, the set is 100% not balanced even if your suggestions were implemented. It's too strong as is. It's basically dk chains up to 8 in an 8v8 bg or more in cyro every 8 seconds with no need to target, way too wide of a radius and no cc immunity. And it hits pretty hard.

lol tbf i was replying to the guy above you but I was typing slow.

To the point of balance, the changes I mentioned that wouldn't be so bad/destroy the sets uniqueness, would still leave it as a very strong set and that's a good thing. Having all pvp sets follow a flat, boring, formulaic balance structure is not something we should be striving for imo.

xylena_lazarow · March 26

ruskiii wrote: »

No, sometimes you get caught off guard, it's not the end of the world.

I'm generally fine with single target melee gankers that demand you respond in 1 gcd or you die. They need to land their ultimate to kill you, and don't currently have any dumb procs that automate their strat.

Rush demands that you respond in 1 gcd or die, then continue responding for several more gcds, yet you can play perfectly through all of this and still die because you dared to play next to less sweaty players. That's completely out of line with any single target gank strat, but somehow it gets to be an even more powerful AoE instakill gank strat?

I know you're a good player who understands the game, you know how to bomb, but you are seriously underestimating the automation power of Rushing Agony because you've never used it yourself. All that skill you need to line up bombs with things like Destro X just isn't necessary for Rush, because the proc does all the hard stuff for you.