Petless magsorc is basically a petsorc with 2 additional skill slots, a heal on hardened ward AND the equivalent of a full 5-piece max magicka set on top. I still maintain that the will of the sentient spreadsheet that balances the game was misinterpreted along the way, which caused the 10% max magicka passive that should have gone to petsorc to end up, somehow, going to magsorc instead.

Tcholl wrote: »

Why can't we all agree that zos needs to fix sorc asap and just let the responsible team work on a proper solution?

There is already plenty of feedback and most of them comes from seasoned pvp players.

Also, if Sorc becomes B tier will be great, since this is where most classes are atm. Much better than the only S tier class of the game.

Also, let's respect other players opinions. Most of the ppl here are seasoned pvp players, so stop pretending your opinion is better than others.

Not sure B tier is what I'd shoot for. Knocking a class down two tiers in one patch means a pretty hefty nerf and will likely lead to an overreaction for the this dev team, which they have a history of doing.

Also don;t think most classes are B. Been awhile since I've played very much but it's not like ZOS makes combat changes anymore. Warden, DK, NB are better than B tier. Necro and Arc are below it. 'Plar prolly B tier.

Haki_7 wrote: »

AngryNecro wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

Petless magsorc is basically a petsorc with 2 additional skill slots, a heal on hardened ward AND the equivalent of a full 5-piece max magicka set on top. I still maintain that the will of the sentient spreadsheet that balances the game was misinterpreted along the way, which caused the 10% max magicka passive that should have gone to petsorc to end up, somehow, going to magsorc instead.

I have a question for you. All know that TESO doesn't actually have a aiming system. Knowing this, do you consider it normal to take your zoo to pvp? Well, in fact, you're using a flaw in the game, and that's just not respecting everyone, as far as I'm concerned. Including the player in your group, because it just doesn't matter which side this useless zoo is on, which can only get in the way of aiming.

I only use one pet. Not sure what you mean by zoo. Haven't seen any sorc pvp'ing with more than one pet in several years.

Eh, back when there was no HP cap on Hardened Ward I did make a trolly Max Magicka zoo sorc healer with Scamp/Daedroth/Matriarch/Atronach. would focus on getting up close and personal and dipping back and forth between the pets to screw with people's targeting, effective if they didn't use tab-targeting.

If I wanted to dust it off I'd probably just make it more of a heal-tank.

StaticWave wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

Sorc has a LOT of undodgable dmg

Why are you making things up?

Crystal Frag is dodgable and blockable. Curse is blockable, cleansable, and also mitigated by Major Evasion. In fact, you can negate 99% of Sorc's burst combo by simply holding block. That is precisely why Streak is an unblockable stun. If Streak wasn't unblockable, I can literally just hold down that block button and magsorc cannot do anything to me.

Wallar333 wrote: »

Ppl were crying about NBs for a long time, it was always strong class, but not that easy to play, and if you wanted really high dmg, you needed to have MUCH less resists than other classes, now i need around 30k resists so i can at least leave invis, otherwise i get streak 3 spells, haunting curse and im done.

NB is definitely very easy to play lol. You can also have 30k resists and 7k weapon damage on a NB.

Wallar333 wrote: »

Now you can see some random sorc fighting 1v5 with full HP and shielded streaking around, and no one can kill him.

That "random" magsorc is probably a top tier magsorc player you just never knew about. No mediocre magsorc is pulling off 1v5s.

Wallar333 wrote: »

DKs usually kills me too in PVP, cos that class is simply stronger, BUT it has its disadvantages, its not IMMORTAL, so i dont have a problem with it.

Magsorc is not immortal.

While I partially agree with you that magsorc needs a WARD NERF, I think you're exaggerating too much about the class' capabilities.

To answer what you said before, about me complaining overally about sorc class, thats not true but ok. My problem with sorc is literally just ward and streaks undodgable stun THATS ALL, there were some comparisons so i reacted, but i wouldnt change anything else than those two spells, so stop accusing me of things i didnt said ! ...

Yes, im using block with frost staff against sorcs, cos its only way to have at least a chance to survive, thats actually only reason why im using frost staff on backbar. But such things like this lol, its same as someone can say about any other class/spell in the game, when sorcs were complaning about NBs, i could have also say JUST USE BLOCK LOL ...

Play NB then, if its that easy as you think. You would never have really useful build if you even manage to have 30k resists and 7k dmg, you MUST have atronach mundus even on stam build, otherwise youre out of invis/swallow soul and lotus fan, which will lead you to not dealing any singnificant dmg, or to simply your death cos youll have no survivability, just vigor wont save you, as without lotus fan youll have bad positioning, as melee, youll have to run to your target, which means getting a LOT of dmg along the way (ambush stam morph is too weak for pvp). You MUST wear whole build tri-stat cos of hybridization, only stam, or only mag - blade wont work good, like many other classes in the game, with AGAIN only exception for magsorcs.
Best you can achieve on a really playable strong build, is to have around just 25k hp, 30k resists and around 5,5k dmg fully buffed, if youll change anything, youll either be a total paper, dead instantly when leaves invis, or youll have no dmg. Ive used two DMG sets build for ganking, and still couldnt kill a magsorc, they just need to streak and im dead, cos of no deffs, while they have **** load of dmg shields/heals, even DKs in 80% cases didnt survived me, and in those rest of cases i managed to get away usually, but sorc is sorc lol, not a chance to kill nor get away = almost 100% death rate, against a **** DD, great mechanics, and some ppl still defending it, incredible.

As for your top tier magsorc, bro with all those heals/shields and streak, probably even my grandma can be top tier magsorc now, with all respect, that class is destroying whole game, and its WAY TOO EASY to play, you dont need to be a good player to play it in this state, even a total noob, who at least takes advice on wearing rallying cry + something, would melt most of top players from other classes, cos its just broken.

Magsorc IS immortal in current state, if hes not completely dumb, idk if ive ever saw sorc die in 4v4 BGs, maybe few times when another sorc killed him lol. And in cyro ? I suppose i dont even have to explain whats happening in cyro. Even DK, as a *** TANK class dont have as much survivability now.

You, and all other sorcs if youre truly good players, cant say that class will be weak without ward, same as you cant say it would be weak without streaks stun. But lets say i trust you that ONLY ward is the problem, good players would still be verry strong playing that class, streak is still incredibly OP spell, with ward or not. I would really like to see what would happen to that class without ward, i can still imagine those noobs streaking three maps away while stunning anyone, but OK, i would accept compromise of just taking ward. But lets say ZOS will do that, AGAIN there will be forum full of sorc noobs crying about something ? I would vomit, and just leaves this game if that happens, this NO POINT discussion already took enough time, for probably nothing. ZOS will have a dilemma what to do now, they nerf sorc ? Sorcs will come here to cry for eternity for boosts... They do nothing ? ALL other classes will keep posting angry **** here on forum, about sorcs, and sooner or later no one will be playing PVP, were actually almost there, almost in the point where no one is playing it.

Community will destroy this game on their own, thats why i never liked when community dictated dev teams what to do, cos its EVERY time ends like this. This game needs less listening to crying forum noobs and just more testing, otherwise there will always be topics like this one. Ppl have to adapt what dev team does, suggestions are ok, but i dont believe ZOS made such a bad decisons on their own, without beeing PUSHED by sorc part of community, cos EVEN without ward, sorcs are still annoying and STRONG.
Theres nothing else to discuss here, if ZOS will keep sorcs as they are, and drown all other classes to keep sorcs happy, then pvp will die in a VERRY short time, if as i said before, is not actually too late anyway.

Sorcs suck to fight against for me personally is their damage combo is insane, and once you get caught in the 500 ulti overload-curse-frag rotation it’s hard to get back on the offensive, a least as a Templar. If everything crits it’s like 15-20k damage a combo on repeat while they’re refreshing ward on top of it.

They’re annoying but not as bad as the 40k hp acuity vamp spam warden. Luckily it’s a boring playstyle because most people don’t like turtling for a minute.

Wallar333 wrote: »

How PVP looks right now is simple, even if ganking sorcs with NB, scenario is like: NB jump from invis on sorc, gets him to maybe 50% if even (depends on builds) sorc dodges, NB cant do anything while sorc is dodging, between dodges sorc takes 1 000 000 000 dmg shields on him, turns uses streak on NB, throw all his **** on him, NB is dead or almost dead, if still lives he starts running away, sorc uses another sreak, NB is dead, gank over. THIS is 80% of cases with sorcs, and NO, im not playing this game for a week, this is actually a problem in pvp.

if it is the way you think you'll kill a sorcerer, then it's normal you 80% fail.

That said, I agree sorcs are overpowered because of their combos and if you compare some skills, then sorc is better :

Way to CC/escape :
Sorc streak = teleportation - easy way to leave a fight
Sorc streak = cc zone (multiple targets possible)
Sorc streak = damages + eventually explode if sorc used lightning 2sec before, so it's like execute skill in rare cases
==> offensive skill + defensive skill to escape easily a fight/melee


NB fear = cc zone (multiple targets possible)
NB fear = cowardice => reduce damage for some seconds.
NB fear = cant be blocked
==> mainly a defensive skill since it doesnt give any damage but reduces it instead
==> if you think we can leave easily by using cloak, then you didnt play NB in pvp in 2025, and even if it is the case, it means = 2skills, when sorcs have 2 skills in one with streak

----

Not to mention the means each class uses to obtain Major Resolve (+resistance) :

Sorc lightning form = gives resistance
Sorc lightning form = damages melee ennemies each 2secs

NB cloak = gives resistance
NB cloak = hide or heal

COMBOS:
common combinations used regularly by the 2 classes in pvp.

• Combine Streak+lighting form = sorcerer just streak on ennemy and gives damages from streak + damages from lighting form
• Combine Fear + cloak = 0 damage, simply a way to get away discreetly

I mean, NB is assassin at first.
But the 2 important skills I just mentionned here make Sorc being extremely offensive class & NB a victim trying to escape.

is that even normal ?
HOW IS IT POSSIBLE????

Wallar333 wrote: »

Turtle i see your point, but no one here wants to DELETE sorcs, all i say, and what most ppl wants, is to CHANGE the class, and it MUST be done for the sake of the rest of the community. Actually i agree you and StaticWave knows that class much better than me, thats without doubt, so i cant say if ONLY ward is the problem, maybe yes, maybe not, to me sorc would still be strong, even without it, would be MUCH harder to play thats for sure, but hey, pvp is about to be challenging, not about running around killing everyone cos of bad OP mechanics forced by part of the community to have advantage. You say it needed buffs, bro, ward or not, its still a VERRY strong class, while you also have streak as best positioning/stun/dmg spell all in one in the game.

About NB beeing easy to play, bro, theres no class easy to play, and there never was, till ZOS made god-mode for sorcs. All classes have their advantages/disadvantages, NB is strong, and easy to play as ambusher/ganker, but in face to face combat its usually getting melted by DKs and templars, if NB attacks first, they usually win the fight, but otherwise they just die, you cant keep distance with NB, when you jump on the enemy, its usually one way ticket, as all other classes in the game, with only exception, guess which one.

The problem is, ZOS did too much for sorcs to help them, especially by making streak to cost less, while they kept their DMG and all, but they still kept crying, so ZOS did this mammoth step into the one big smelly **** and gave sorc ward, at here we are now. If they take ward, what will happen ? forum will be full of sorcs crying about something, this leads nowhere. Even without ward sorc is a VERRY STRONG RANGE DD CLASS, and yes, you have two undodgable spells which one of them is any directio TELEPORT/DMG/HARD CC all in one spell, atop of other source dmg like pets/dots, so really bro, what esle sorc community wanted i just cant get it lol ...

Now literally ALL other classes sucks cos ZOS made ONE class happy, and here we are. Sorc part of community PUSHED ZOS to give them ward, which led to this state, so literally sorc part of community is responsible for this.
Btw i agree that some sets are also actually crazy in the game, in combinations of some classes spells, but thats for another topic, cos its caused by set, not the class itself. But sorc problem, is literally a sorc problem.

A few things to unpack here (again...)

You say no-one wants to delete sorcs, but then a few posts later you go on a massive rant of everything about the entire class being overpowered from "immortality", to mobility, to damage. The entire thread is nothing but complaints about the entire sorc class kit, even the title reads as though you want sorc deleted.

As @Joy_Division said:

Joy_Division wrote: »
I don't presume anything when it comes to posters I don;t know unless their comments make it obvious they just don;t understand how PvP works. Sorc is my second most played solo class and I know it's S tier. But DK, NB, and Warden are not that far behind and can absolutely beat it. So nerfing it across the board as numerous people are calling for instead of addressing what is actually making it S Tier (Ward) is wrongheaded.

I also want to re-iterate and expand on Joy's point, because the general complaints (that should be more specific) that we see in this thread, happened before in the past, and it resulted in sorc being deleted from PvP. This is why I am very skeptical of the claims being made of not wanting the class deleted, even if that is the case, because the last time the exact same general complaints were made about sorc that are being made here, that should have been complaints about a specific build instead, the entire class did get deleted from PvP, for over 6 months.




I'm not sure what "Sorc community" you have been talking to, but no sorc main I know/talked to ever asked for current ward. As I said before, what was asked for by sorc mains was buffs/changes to abilities that would make sorcs abilities equal to what other classes had, so that sorc could be equal to the other classes when played by an average player and not exclusively when played by a top 0.00001% sweat-lord, one-trick, sorc-main. Buffed ward was exclusively a ZOS decision, not a "sorc community" decision.



As for streak, it got it's ramping cost (not base cost) reduced 6 years ago, as shown in the link to the UESP wiki page, that shows every change made to bolt escape and morphs through the entire history of ESO, that I posted/linked on the previous page (page 4) of this thread:

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Here's a link to the UESP page on Bolt escape (and morphs) with all the information I've shown here on the changes to streak/BoL throughout this games life.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Bolt_Escape

Streaks reduced ramping cost is nothing new and made zero difference to sorc being too strong, because if it did, then sorc would not have needed any buffs (which was clearly not the case since even vast majority of non-sorcs agreed that pre ward-buff sorc needed buffs back then due to being a super weak class, even necro mains agreed sorc was bad back then and needed buffs, and that's saying something considering the state of necro).

Haki_7 wrote: »

@StaticWave @Turtle_Bot

Since they won't remove the heal from hardened ward, would swapping petsorc 10% max HP passive with magsorc 10% max magicka passive be enough to balance the class?

It would certainly make a difference, but the issue with that change is that it would heavily nerf the still underperforming non-pet sorcs in PvE.
It would have to come with changes to other parts of sorcs kit to make up for that nerf, which could cause other issues if the wrong changes are made.

It's why adjusting ward is the best option, it's direct and has the least impact on other areas of the game.