Sorcerer disease spreading and other problems

a_u_s_t_y

Rule one of eso pvp - don’t take it too seriously.

Everyday people rage at dieing to different classes.. it’s a messy unbalanced pvp environment, it’s always been like this and to be honest if it was perfectly balanced it wouldn’t nearly be as much fun as it is/has been in the past.

Classes get nerfed into non existence and others get buffed into eliteness.. crazy sets get added (mostly broken proc sets) the good players find a way to keep the game fun or alternatively if the changes are too much for them they will just quit/take a break for a different game which is perfectly fine.

Just see eso PvP for what it is and you will enjoy it way more. Play all the classes and get an idea of how they work, try out the builds and classes you think are broken as you might be surprised they aren’t as easy to be good at as you think.

no one cares if you are good or bad at this game, specially in PvP

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

StaticWave wrote: »

I mean look at this CMX of my friend dueling Skara:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/927026371568488460/1332655731660292136/image.png?ex=67d2081d&is=67d0b69d&hm=c094c8b36dec61de95ed37437c5dd3cf2d4790a87d01932fe7734f4a8fa0fb6d&

He did 9.2k DPS to Skara in a bash sorc vs bash sorc duel, while having 40.7k HP, 43.8k resists, and 4.7k effective power lol. This is not also mentioning that he has 2 extra slots for scribing skills. He can use Shield Throw with the extra bash damage script and Major Vitality/Cowardice to make himself even tankier. He can also use Wield Soul with Major Defile and another DoT to make you heal less. Did I also mention he has Hardened Ward with 3k HP recovery fully buffed on top of those resists?

I think that build will have trouble against a 1v1 DK running Pyrebrand + Draugrkin / Essence Thief. Not 100% sure but I want to see the fight.

In Update 45, Bash Sorc is still strong in all PvP environments but you need to adapt your build to different encounters. 1v1 is totally different than trying to 1vX towers in Cyrodiil. Fighting a Mag Sorc requires a completely different build than fighting a DK, etc.

I'd say Bash Sorc overall is A-tier and in some cases S or S+.

Wallar333

a_u_s_t_y wrote: »

Rule one of eso pvp - don’t take it too seriously.

Everyday people rage at dieing to different classes.. it’s a messy unbalanced pvp environment, it’s always been like this and to be honest if it was perfectly balanced it wouldn’t nearly be as much fun as it is/has been in the past.

Classes get nerfed into non existence and others get buffed into eliteness.. crazy sets get added (mostly broken proc sets) the good players find a way to keep the game fun or alternatively if the changes are too much for them they will just quit/take a break for a different game which is perfectly fine.

Just see eso PvP for what it is and you will enjoy it way more. Play all the classes and get an idea of how they work, try out the builds and classes you think are broken as you might be surprised they aren’t as easy to be good at as you think.

no one cares if you are good or bad at this game, specially in PvP

PVP is dying cos of sorcs, THATS it. cos combo of STREAK+DMG shield, is insane BS which should not exist. other classes are more less equal now, even DKs, but sorcs are just too much.

EDIT: Tell me one class that can beat sorc in 1v1 ? such class dont exist ...

a_u_s_t_y

What is it with people on this game making up random facts with zero support.

I could say: PVP is dying cause of Necros, THATS it. - doesn’t make it a fact

PvP isn’t dying cause of sorcs, PvP engagement fluctuates because the main area for PvP hasn’t changed since release.. Cyro has been Cyro.. it gets boring eventually for everyone, people try new games and never come back or they come back after a few months

Wallar333

a_u_s_t_y wrote: »

What is it with people on this game making up random facts with zero support.

I could say: PVP is dying cause of Necros, THATS it. - doesn’t make it a fact

PvP isn’t dying cause of sorcs, PvP engagement fluctuates because the main area for PvP hasn’t changed since release.. Cyro has been Cyro.. it gets boring eventually for everyone, people try new games and never come back or they come back after a few months

Facts ? go play some BGs, you can see facts there, same as you can see all PVP areas completely empty, YES mostly cos no one had nerves to eternally fight sorcs, and usually just gives up and let them kill you in cyro, cos even if you get them to low HP, you can never rly catch them. Whole PVP mechanics is simply BAD, its not about ppl getting bored as you say, normal ppl wont have any fun of those braindead fights in cyro, where only thing you need is a group of 5-10 ppl and you can melt anyone there, especially cos most ppl are just randoms who wants to do some PVP and chill, which is impossible, cos you just get into on of those dumb fights and you have enough right away, THATS FACT, no one wants to play such BS.

Graphics or idk youre mentioning is the problem you think ? ok bro, keep your opinion, ill keep mine. You can ask anyone in-game, most ppl tells you they dont play PVP at all, cos it sucks, mechanics is simply BAD, it has nothing to do with graphics lol.

For me, im done with PVP, cos its dead, last few days 3+ minutes waiting for a match just to get kicked cos NOT ENOUGH PLAYERS, and when you get into match finally, guess what, youre melted by 2500CP+ sorcs, or enemy team has arcanist healer, GAME OVER, incredible fun, and you says ppl dont want to play pvp cos of graphics bro, ppl are leaving from pve content too COS of this PVP mechanics, cos endgame everywhere is simply PVP, and well, this PVP is a disaster. And even if ppl come back, they came just for events/new content, and right after its finished pfff 80% of community is gone.

Thumbless_Bot

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

Passives that gives max health, or even stats and damage, should not exist in any class too and sorcs are stacked with those at the moment.

But all of this is old news at this point, right?

I mean by this logic, every class is stacked with damage and stat boosting passives. Should we nerf all of them then?

Sorc does have more than other classes. It's a big part of why they're the preferred class for werewolf and heavy attack builds.

Excellent observation

StaticWave

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

IDK, I've fought this build a lot and it's borderline impossible for me to kill it, but it can kill me anytime I mess up. I have to sweat so much vs this build whereas vs a magsorc it's no big deal. I think bash sorc isn't that popular because most people are either bad at it or they just don't want to stoop down to that level. When you start seeing actual good players on this spec, you will understand why it's even more of a problem than magsorc imo.

Do you see BashSorc as a problem in duels, open world, or both? I have no desire to duel BashSorcs on OW DK and I'm only beating Skara if I can get the jump on her with an early lead in the 1v1, but if I'm with allies she has to bolt immediately, BashSorc doesn't scale OW and is relatively easy for me to avoid if I'm not obligated to duel.

Mid (or better) range Sorcs will parse on me from range, bolt into the hills if I look at them, bolt back to parse on me as soon as I engage the others, repeat ad nauseum. The MagSorc does not need to be good to be this obnoxious. The BashSorc needs to be good, at that point a good player zerging me down can zerg me down on anything, so it's moot.

It's also not even necessarily that they're killing me, just that I find the resulting play pattern severely limits solo tactics, and is just plain unfun. I've also been playing a lot more BGs and a lot less Cyro lately, and left dueling long ago.

I see bashsorcs as problematic in duels and openworld (if we're also doing 1v1s or I am getting outnumbered by a bashsorc). As I've stated in my previous comment, the problem with bashsorc is that their stats do not make any sense. They don't invest into conventional damage stats at all. Their max stam/mag, weapon/spell damage, crit chance/crit damage, are all super low. Most of their stat investments are in max HP, resistances, and bash damage.

So now you have this super tanky build that's borderline impossible to kill and can somehow still bash your face in. Yes, they have to be very close to you, but the Scribing system allows them to use Leashing/Binding Throw, which will either pull you back or immobilizes you in place to help them land their bashes.

I don't see that any different than a magsorc poking at you from range. Sure, that magsorc has the range advantage, but you aren't actually running away from the magsorc. That magsorc HAS to run away from you. It's the reverse with bash sorcs. You DO NOT want to be in range of them because you cannot kill them and will be killed by them. I find that to be more problematic than the pesky magsorc you're describing. Why? Because one is an annoying pest, and the other is an actual THREAT.

I've never had to run away from a good magsorc, but I've ran away from good bash sorcs because one I can actually kill, while the other completely outclasses me. That is why I find bashsorcs more problematic than magsorc.

StaticWave

Wallar333 wrote: »

EDIT: Tell me one class that can beat sorc in 1v1 ? such class dont exist ...

I can tell you at least 5 specs that can beat magsorc in a 1v1.

- Ranged Plar
- Acuity magDen
- Tanky brawler NB
- Wings DK
- Bashsorc (specifically built to fight magsorcs)

There are also other specs as well but these 5 should be enough.

StaticWave

As for the comments saying Sorc has too many passives, here's a detailed comparison of useful passives between Sorc and DK, NB, and Templar:

Sorc:

- 300 stam or mag when a non-ultimate Summoning ability ends (really only works on Bound Armaments in PvP)
- 15% less ultimate cost
- 20% extra HP and stam recovery when slotting a Summoning ability
- 10% HP if you have a permanent pet slotted, or 10% mag/stam when you don't have one
- 6% less HP, mag, and stam abilities
- Heal for X amount when you cast a Blood Magic ability, scaling with max HP
- 15% less HP, mag, or stam cost for next ability when you block an attack
- 10% mag recovery
- 5% extra shock and physical damage
- 1% extra damage done for every 10% HP they currently have (10% if they have 100% HP, and 1% if they have 10% HP)
- 2% extra spell and weapon damage for every Sorc ability slotted

DK:

- 40% damage for burning and poisoned status effects
- 1k stam & mag every 3s when poisoned or burning is applied
- 30% snare when dealing damage with a direct Ardent Flame ability
- 25% extra damage for the DoT component of Fiery Breath and Searing Strike, and 4s extra duration
- 5% extra flame and poisoned damage
- 10% extra block mitigation
- 12% extra healing received when a Draconic Power ability is active
- 1650 spell and physical resistances
- 20% extra duration for Earthen Heart abilities
- Restore 50 HP, stam, and mag for every point of ultimate spent
- 3 ult every 6s while in combat
- Restore 1.1k stam when using an Earthern Heart ability with a cost

NB:

- 2974 extra pen while flanking
- Restore 1k stam and mag when an enemy dies within 2s of being damaged by you
- 438 extra crit chance for each Assassination ability slotted
- 10% extra crit damage
- 15% extra HP, stam, and mag regen
- Major Resolve
- 3% max HP for each Shadow ability slotted
- 2s extra duration for non invisibility Shadow abilities
- 20 ult when using a potion
- 8% extra mag when a Siphoning ability is slotted
- 3% extra healing done for each Siphoning ability slotted
- 2 ult when casting a Siphoning ability, 4s cooldown

Templar:

- 10% extra critical damage
- 10% extra damage done to blocking players
- Minor Protection for 6s when activating an Aedric Spear ability
- Gain 1 stack of Burning Light every half second when dealing damage, and at 4 stacks will deal X amount of damage to your target, scaling off your highest offensive stats
- 6% spell and weapon damage
- 1320 physical and spell resistances
- 2s extra duration for Eclipse ability
- 3 ult when casting Dawn's Wrath ability, 6s cooldown
- 5% less HP, mag, stam, and ult cost
- Up to 12% more healing for Restoring Light abilities
- Minor Mending
- 2 ult when healing someone under 50% HP with Restoring Light abilities

Sorc has 10 unique stat boosting passives, whereas DK, NB and Plar all have over 11 unique stat boosting passives. Even the passives that increase duration of skills are just as beneficial because they're reducing the need to recast abilities as often, thereby saving sustain and allowing you to cast more offensive abilities. Some passives even snare your opponent (Warmth on DK) or save you an entire bar slot (Shadow Barrier on NB), making your build A LOT more efficient. Just look at NB for example and see how efficient their bar is compared to a Sorc. So tell me, how exactly do Sorcs have "more passives", when simply listing them side by side shows exactly otherwise?

This is why I said the only nerf Sorc deserves is the healing on Ward. Everybody here is trying to turn completely non-issues into issues. Streak is fine and does not need a nerf. Sorc passives are fine and do not need a nerf.

the1andonlyskwex

StaticWave wrote: »

As for the comments saying Sorc has too many passives, here's a detailed comparison of useful passives between Sorc and DK, NB, and Templar:

Sorc:

- 300 stam or mag when a non-ultimate Summoning ability ends (really only works on Bound Armaments in PvP)
- 15% less ultimate cost
- 20% extra HP and stam recovery when slotting a Summoning ability
- 10% HP if you have a permanent pet slotted, or 10% mag/stam when you don't have one
- 6% less HP, mag, and stam abilities
- Heal for X amount when you cast a Blood Magic ability, scaling with max HP
- 15% less HP, mag, or stam cost for next ability when you block an attack
- 10% mag recovery
- 5% extra shock and physical damage
- 1% extra damage done for every 10% HP they currently have (10% if they have 100% HP, and 1% if they have 10% HP)
- 2% extra spell and weapon damage for every Sorc ability slotted

DK:

- 40% damage for burning and poisoned status effects
- 1k stam & mag every 3s when poisoned or burning is applied
- 30% snare when dealing damage with a direct Ardent Flame ability
- 25% extra damage for the DoT component of Fiery Breath and Searing Strike, and 4s extra duration
- 5% extra flame and poisoned damage
- 10% extra block mitigation
- 12% extra healing received when a Draconic Power ability is active
- 1650 spell and physical resistances
- 20% extra duration for Earthen Heart abilities
- Restore 50 HP, stam, and mag for every point of ultimate spent
- 3 ult every 6s while in combat
- Restore 1.1k stam when using an Earthern Heart ability with a cost

NB:

- 2974 extra pen while flanking
- Restore 1k stam and mag when an enemy dies within 2s of being damaged by you
- 438 extra crit chance for each Assassination ability slotted
- 10% extra crit damage
- 15% extra HP, stam, and mag regen
- Major Resolve
- 3% max HP for each Shadow ability slotted
- 2s extra duration for non invisibility Shadow abilities
- 20 ult when using a potion
- 8% extra mag when a Siphoning ability is slotted
- 3% extra healing done for each Siphoning ability slotted
- 2 ult when casting a Siphoning ability, 4s cooldown

Templar:

- 10% extra critical damage
- 10% extra damage done to blocking players
- Minor Protection for 6s when activating an Aedric Spear ability
- Gain 1 stack of Burning Light every half second when dealing damage, and at 4 stacks will deal X amount of damage to your target, scaling off your highest offensive stats
- 6% spell and weapon damage
- 1320 physical and spell resistances
- 2s extra duration for Eclipse ability
- 3 ult when casting Dawn's Wrath ability, 6s cooldown
- 5% less HP, mag, stam, and ult cost
- Up to 12% more healing for Restoring Light abilities
- Minor Mending
- 2 ult when healing someone under 50% HP with Restoring Light abilities

Sorc has 10 unique stat boosting passives, whereas DK, NB and Plar all have over 11 unique stat boosting passives. Even the passives that increase duration of skills are just as beneficial because they're reducing the need to recast abilities as often, thereby saving sustain and allowing you to cast more offensive abilities. Some passives even snare your opponent (Warmth on DK) or save you an entire bar slot (Shadow Barrier on NB), making your build A LOT more efficient. Just look at NB for example and see how efficient their bar is compared to a Sorc. So tell me, how exactly do Sorcs have "more passives", when simply listing them side by side shows exactly otherwise?

This is why I said the only nerf Sorc deserves is the healing on Ward. Everybody here is trying to turn completely non-issues into issues. Streak is fine and does not need a nerf. Sorc passives are fine and do not need a nerf.

The vast majority of the Sorc bonuses you listed are general bonuses to stats/damage, while most of the bonuses for other classes only affect a limited set of abilities (e.g. from a specific skill line) or have other conditions (like slotting specific skills or having specific active effects running) that make them more difficult to activate (in terms of build/play style) than the Sorc bonuses.

Aces-High-82

Someone in this thread got touched by Sorc one time too often....

StaticWave

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

As for the comments saying Sorc has too many passives, here's a detailed comparison of useful passives between Sorc and DK, NB, and Templar:

Sorc:

- 300 stam or mag when a non-ultimate Summoning ability ends (really only works on Bound Armaments in PvP)
- 15% less ultimate cost
- 20% extra HP and stam recovery when slotting a Summoning ability
- 10% HP if you have a permanent pet slotted, or 10% mag/stam when you don't have one
- 6% less HP, mag, and stam abilities
- Heal for X amount when you cast a Blood Magic ability, scaling with max HP
- 15% less HP, mag, or stam cost for next ability when you block an attack
- 10% mag recovery
- 5% extra shock and physical damage
- 1% extra damage done for every 10% HP they currently have (10% if they have 100% HP, and 1% if they have 10% HP)
- 2% extra spell and weapon damage for every Sorc ability slotted

DK:

- 40% damage for burning and poisoned status effects
- 1k stam & mag every 3s when poisoned or burning is applied
- 30% snare when dealing damage with a direct Ardent Flame ability
- 25% extra damage for the DoT component of Fiery Breath and Searing Strike, and 4s extra duration
- 5% extra flame and poisoned damage
- 10% extra block mitigation
- 12% extra healing received when a Draconic Power ability is active
- 1650 spell and physical resistances
- 20% extra duration for Earthen Heart abilities
- Restore 50 HP, stam, and mag for every point of ultimate spent
- 3 ult every 6s while in combat
- Restore 1.1k stam when using an Earthern Heart ability with a cost

NB:

- 2974 extra pen while flanking
- Restore 1k stam and mag when an enemy dies within 2s of being damaged by you
- 438 extra crit chance for each Assassination ability slotted
- 10% extra crit damage
- 15% extra HP, stam, and mag regen
- Major Resolve
- 3% max HP for each Shadow ability slotted
- 2s extra duration for non invisibility Shadow abilities
- 20 ult when using a potion
- 8% extra mag when a Siphoning ability is slotted
- 3% extra healing done for each Siphoning ability slotted
- 2 ult when casting a Siphoning ability, 4s cooldown

Templar:

- 10% extra critical damage
- 10% extra damage done to blocking players
- Minor Protection for 6s when activating an Aedric Spear ability
- Gain 1 stack of Burning Light every half second when dealing damage, and at 4 stacks will deal X amount of damage to your target, scaling off your highest offensive stats
- 6% spell and weapon damage
- 1320 physical and spell resistances
- 2s extra duration for Eclipse ability
- 3 ult when casting Dawn's Wrath ability, 6s cooldown
- 5% less HP, mag, stam, and ult cost
- Up to 12% more healing for Restoring Light abilities
- Minor Mending
- 2 ult when healing someone under 50% HP with Restoring Light abilities

Sorc has 10 unique stat boosting passives, whereas DK, NB and Plar all have over 11 unique stat boosting passives. Even the passives that increase duration of skills are just as beneficial because they're reducing the need to recast abilities as often, thereby saving sustain and allowing you to cast more offensive abilities. Some passives even snare your opponent (Warmth on DK) or save you an entire bar slot (Shadow Barrier on NB), making your build A LOT more efficient. Just look at NB for example and see how efficient their bar is compared to a Sorc. So tell me, how exactly do Sorcs have "more passives", when simply listing them side by side shows exactly otherwise?

This is why I said the only nerf Sorc deserves is the healing on Ward. Everybody here is trying to turn completely non-issues into issues. Streak is fine and does not need a nerf. Sorc passives are fine and do not need a nerf.

The vast majority of the Sorc bonuses you listed are general bonuses to stats/damage, while most of the bonuses for other classes only affect a limited set of abilities (e.g. from a specific skill line) or have other conditions (like slotting specific skills or having specific active effects running) that make them more difficult to activate (in terms of build/play style) than the Sorc bonuses.

You're overvaluing Sorc passives too much. Nearly half of the Sorc passives require slotting specific skills:

- Rebate and Daedric Protection require slotting a Daedric Summoning skill
- Blood Magic requires using a Dark Magic skill
- Expert Mage requires slotting Sorc class skills

I find the argument about requiring slotting specific skills moot. Even if Sorc has more passives that don't require slotting class skills than other classes, you're still going to slot class skills for every class because they synergize better with the respective class passives. Can you name me any class that doesn't slot at least 1 class skill from each skill line? You can't because no competitive build is going to give up class skills for universal skills.

And some passives give you value that don't appear on the stat sheet. How are you going to downplay NB's passive giving you Major Resolve, which literally frees up 1 full bar slot for you to use other skills (which magsorc has to use Chudan for), or DK's Warmth passive applying a 30% snare to help you stick to your target, or Warden's Accelerated Growth passive giving you Major Mending when using a Green Balance heal ability at 40% HP. These passives don't show up on the stat sheet, but they are arguably much better than that 10% extra recovery or 10% extra max mag passive from Sorc. I would love to trade both of those Sorc passives for Major Mending, a 30% snare, or AN ENTIRE BAR SLOT any day of the week.

Wallar333

StaticWave youre surely 100% magsorc main, cos its actually funny how you defending OP sorc still xD.

If sorc is not completely dumb, NO OTHER CLASS can have a chance, only DK maybe, but if sorc is noot dumb, he can get away from fight to recover and come back, cos DK have no chance to catch him.
sorc still HAVE the best passives in the game, and if right build, a comically easy rotation it has incredible sustain, good enough to bo almost immortal, with streak spell, letting you get away anytime, in any direction, it makes sorc LITERALLY immortal.

You forgot to mention that cos of dmg shield, you have 100% crit immunity, which means for example NB which is CRIT CLASS, does nothing, so crit passives are 80% useless in fights, you only need to keep up shield, auto-attack- dodge - shield - heal and meanwhile using streak, which sucks whole stam bar in few seconds cos every like 4 seconds you have to use breakfree on other classes.

STREAK IS A PROBLEM, its OP spell even without stun, with its stun its just gamebreaking. You are shielded, have enough heals, YOURE KEEPING you stamina just for dodges/sprint only, which gives you just another advantage, especially while you can have other source dmg still, even when youre running away,

I saw your topic on forum, about making sorc MORE tanky ? You cant be serious about this one, other classes are leaving PVP completely, from a big part cos of sorcs, and you even want to boost them ? [snip] ....

This games PVP is dying, and only solution is to REMOVE DMG shields from pvp, reducing SELF-healing done by another % and taking stun from sorcs STREAK spell, theres literally no other problem in PVP now, and most classes are equal ... Sorcs shoudlnt be strongest class in the game lol, BALANCE is only way to keep PVP playable, but i guess most of OLD players who likes this dumb mechanics cos like 80% of them playing sorcs, wouldnt be happy about it.

But its up to devs, if they want to keep few hundreds happy and let this game die after a while, or they actually want to balance this game to make it playable.
Sorc is most unbalanced class is the game, with way too good everything, and what you said that NB can kill sorc in 1v1, bro im playing NB long enough to know, and if sorc is not dumb, NB has no chance, same as any other class, from big part cos of eternal 100% crit dmg resistance shields giving, while you as sorc can still hit critic, even with full HP stat char, your dmg is not even halved, i hit lets say 4k to you with zero chance for crit, you hit 2,5k to me with CHANCE to crit which means same or even bigger dmg than me as a DD while you have all your deffs/shields/heal, even in cyro, sometimes whole zerg is chasing down one sorc for 5 minutes to kill him, so [snip] youre talking about bro ...

Btw im done saying anything, cos its just a waste of time, if devs wont wake up, this games PVP is done definitely, which means way too many new players to just leave this game, when they find out about its dumb PVP mechanics, OR even better, if they try one BG to see it for themselves, Its usually unplayable to me, with understanding of mechanics rotations, knowledge of spells and how PVP works overally, while wearing best sets possible,so i can imagine how much FUN it is for new players lol.

[edited for profanity bypass]

xylena_lazarow

StaticWave wrote: »

I don't see that any different than a magsorc poking at you from range. Sure, that magsorc has the range advantage, but you aren't actually running away from the magsorc. That magsorc HAS to run away from you. It's the reverse with bash sorcs... I've never had to run away from a good magsorc, but I've ran away from good bash sorcs

If I'm already running around LoS'ing in a 1vX, the BashSorc probably isn't hitting me, but I'm under constant fire from even mid MagSorcs every time I make a move, and they can chase me across the map while still poking me in between Streaks. It doesn't matter if the BashSorc can beat me in a controlled duel because I'm not hanging out in Stormhaven, in open world I can stall or disengage, they can't keep hitting me while chasing like MagSorc (or BowSorc).

The MagSorc doesn't even care if I'm with allies because they can keep parsing at range and doing their disengage/reengage crap, but the BashSorc needs to run like hell from me because its build doesn't scale, even if it's just some mid rando with me, the BashSorc is still losing the 1v2 and struggles with being focused in general compared to MagSorc. So even if the BashSorc is stronger in a vacuum, the mid MagSorc's ranged attacks are more threatening due to volume.

Iriidius

Wallar333 wrote: »

StaticWave youre surely 100% magsorc main, cos its actually funny how you defending OP sorc still xD.

If sorc is not completely dumb, NO OTHER CLASS can have a chance, only DK maybe, but if sorc is noot dumb, he can get away from fight to recover and come back, cos DK have no chance to catch him.
sorc still HAVE the best passives in the game, and if right build, a comically easy rotation it has incredible sustain, good enough to bo almost immortal, with streak spell, letting you get away anytime, in any direction, it makes sorc LITERALLY immortal.

You forgot to mention that cos of dmg shield, you have 100% crit immunity, which means for example NB which is CRIT CLASS, does nothing, so crit passives are 80% useless in fights, you only need to keep up shield, auto-attack- dodge - shield - heal and meanwhile using streak, which sucks whole stam bar in few seconds cos every like 4 seconds you have to use breakfree on other classes.

STREAK IS A PROBLEM, its OP spell even without stun, with its stun its just gamebreaking. You are shielded, have enough heals, YOURE KEEPING you stamina just for dodges/sprint only, which gives you just another advantage, especially while you can have other source dmg still, even when youre running away,

I saw your topic on forum, about making sorc MORE tanky ? You cant be serious about this one, other classes are leaving PVP completely, from a big part cos of sorcs, and you even want to boost them ? [snip] ....

This games PVP is dying, and only solution is to REMOVE DMG shields from pvp, reducing SELF-healing done by another % and taking stun from sorcs STREAK spell, theres literally no other problem in PVP now, and most classes are equal ... Sorcs shoudlnt be strongest class in the game lol, BALANCE is only way to keep PVP playable, but i guess most of OLD players who likes this dumb mechanics cos like 80% of them playing sorcs, wouldnt be happy about it.

But its up to devs, if they want to keep few hundreds happy and let this game die after a while, or they actually want to balance this game to make it playable.
Sorc is most unbalanced class is the game, with way too good everything, and what you said that NB can kill sorc in 1v1, bro im playing NB long enough to know, and if sorc is not dumb, NB has no chance, same as any other class, from big part cos of eternal 100% crit dmg resistance shields giving, while you as sorc can still hit critic, even with full HP stat char, your dmg is not even halved, i hit lets say 4k to you with zero chance for crit, you hit 2,5k to me with CHANCE to crit which means same or even bigger dmg than me as a DD while you have all your deffs/shields/heal, even in cyro, sometimes whole zerg is chasing down one sorc for 5 minutes to kill him, so [snip] youre talking about bro ...

Btw im done saying anything, cos its just a waste of time, if devs wont wake up, this games PVP is done definitely, which means way too many new players to just leave this game, when they find out about its dumb PVP mechanics, OR even better, if they try one BG to see it for themselves, Its usually unplayable to me, with understanding of mechanics rotations, knowledge of spells and how PVP works overally, while wearing best sets possible,so i can imagine how much FUN it is for new players lol.

StaticWave is a Stamsorc thinking Stamsorc is the supposed way to play sorcerer despite sorcerer beeing another word for mage and sorcery beeing the mag version of brutality. Therefore he wants to nerf mag stacking and hardened ward to nerf mage but defend or buff any skills a stamsorc is using.


Selfhealing is much weaker than crosshealstacking and should not get specific nerfs.
Shields were practically nonexistent before arcanist was released and hardened ward was also rarely used despite having been a class defining skill long ago before heal was added. Without heal hardened ward is bad as before. Except for sorc and recently nerfed arcanist who are the only classes regulary using shields it is mainly ballgroups using arcanist and scribing multitarget shields and ballgroup tools should get nerfed anyway. Other 5 classes are not using shields and other shield skills are not viable like light armor or healing staff one.

Streak did not prevent sorcerer from beeing almost as bad as templar/necro 2 years ago and was not buffed since so it did not make sorc too strong, only got problematic because sorc received other buffs.

[edited to remove quote]

xylena_lazarow

Iriidius wrote: »

Streak did not prevent sorcerer from beeing almost as bad as templar/necro 2 years ago and was not buffed since so it did not make sorc too strong, only got problematic because sorc received other buffs.

Streak was fair when Sorc needed to be a glass cannon to do damage. But now thanks to generic power creep, everyone gets to be a face tanky brawler with group support and endless sustain, but only Sorc gets this crazy combo of teleport spam and ranged nukes on top of what everyone else does.

They seem to be addressing the generic power creep with the Vengeance rework, there's no silver bullet for huge systemic issues like that. So that leaves the ranged nukes and teleport spam. The teleport skill itself is overloaded on either morph, and there are multiple ranged nuke skills that are arguably overpowered. All of them are fast instant casts and fast projectiles, unlike the slow ranged skills they designed to be more fair on Warden, Necro, or Arc.

That leaves several angles for dealing with obnoxious ranged Sorc play patterns for ZOS to approach. We can argue for thousands of posts whether it's Streak or Shocking Soul or enabling niche cheese like Bash, so I think the important thing to communicate to ZOS is that Sorc is overpowered in PvP from multiple angles even post Ward nerf.

Aces-High-82

Wallar333 wrote: »

StaticWave youre surely 100% magsorc main, cos its actually funny how you defending OP sorc still xD.

If sorc is not completely dumb, NO OTHER CLASS can have a chance, only DK maybe, but if sorc is noot dumb, he can get away from fight to recover and come back, cos DK have no chance to catch him.
sorc still HAVE the best passives in the game, and if right build, a comically easy rotation it has incredible sustain, good enough to bo almost immortal, with streak spell, letting you get away anytime, in any direction, it makes sorc LITERALLY immortal.

You forgot to mention that cos of dmg shield, you have 100% crit immunity, which means for example NB which is CRIT CLASS, does nothing, so crit passives are 80% useless in fights, you only need to keep up shield, auto-attack- dodge - shield - heal and meanwhile using streak, which sucks whole stam bar in few seconds cos every like 4 seconds you have to use breakfree on other classes.

STREAK IS A PROBLEM, its OP spell even without stun, with its stun its just gamebreaking. You are shielded, have enough heals, YOURE KEEPING you stamina just for dodges/sprint only, which gives you just another advantage, especially while you can have other source dmg still, even when youre running away,

I saw your topic on forum, about making sorc MORE tanky ? You cant be serious about this one, other classes are leaving PVP completely, from a big part cos of sorcs, and you even want to boost them ? [snip] ....

This games PVP is dying, and only solution is to REMOVE DMG shields from pvp, reducing SELF-healing done by another % and taking stun from sorcs STREAK spell, theres literally no other problem in PVP now, and most classes are equal ... Sorcs shoudlnt be strongest class in the game lol, BALANCE is only way to keep PVP playable, but i guess most of OLD players who likes this dumb mechanics cos like 80% of them playing sorcs, wouldnt be happy about it.

But its up to devs, if they want to keep few hundreds happy and let this game die after a while, or they actually want to balance this game to make it playable.
Sorc is most unbalanced class is the game, with way too good everything, and what you said that NB can kill sorc in 1v1, bro im playing NB long enough to know, and if sorc is not dumb, NB has no chance, same as any other class, from big part cos of eternal 100% crit dmg resistance shields giving, while you as sorc can still hit critic, even with full HP stat char, your dmg is not even halved, i hit lets say 4k to you with zero chance for crit, you hit 2,5k to me with CHANCE to crit which means same or even bigger dmg than me as a DD while you have all your deffs/shields/heal, even in cyro, sometimes whole zerg is chasing down one sorc for 5 minutes to kill him, so [snip] youre talking about bro ...

Btw im done saying anything, cos its just a waste of time, if devs wont wake up, this games PVP is done definitely, which means way too many new players to just leave this game, when they find out about its dumb PVP mechanics, OR even better, if they try one BG to see it for themselves, Its usually unplayable to me, with understanding of mechanics rotations, knowledge of spells and how PVP works overally, while wearing best sets possible,so i can imagine how much FUN it is for new players lol.

Bro, shields got changed ages ago in regard of crit immunity.
Ppl hinted you now multiple times how to deal with streak as a NB. You have similar capabilities and more single target damage available....time to question ys on which end the issue lies within.

[edited to remove quote]

sans-culottes

I wish this “disease” would spread to the Necromancer class.

Tcholl

I am confused by some messages here. Does anyone still believes that sorcs are in a good state currently compared to other classes?

StaticWave

Wallar333 wrote: »

StaticWave youre surely 100% magsorc main, cos its actually funny how you defending OP sorc still xD.

If sorc is not completely dumb, NO OTHER CLASS can have a chance, only DK maybe, but if sorc is noot dumb, he can get away from fight to recover and come back, cos DK have no chance to catch him.
sorc still HAVE the best passives in the game, and if right build, a comically easy rotation it has incredible sustain, good enough to bo almost immortal, with streak spell, letting you get away anytime, in any direction, it makes sorc LITERALLY immortal.

You forgot to mention that cos of dmg shield, you have 100% crit immunity, which means for example NB which is CRIT CLASS, does nothing, so crit passives are 80% useless in fights, you only need to keep up shield, auto-attack- dodge - shield - heal and meanwhile using streak, which sucks whole stam bar in few seconds cos every like 4 seconds you have to use breakfree on other classes.

STREAK IS A PROBLEM, its OP spell even without stun, with its stun its just gamebreaking. You are shielded, have enough heals, YOURE KEEPING you stamina just for dodges/sprint only, which gives you just another advantage, especially while you can have other source dmg still, even when youre running away,

I saw your topic on forum, about making sorc MORE tanky ? You cant be serious about this one, other classes are leaving PVP completely, from a big part cos of sorcs, and you even want to boost them ? [snip] ....

This games PVP is dying, and only solution is to REMOVE DMG shields from pvp, reducing SELF-healing done by another % and taking stun from sorcs STREAK spell, theres literally no other problem in PVP now, and most classes are equal ... Sorcs shoudlnt be strongest class in the game lol, BALANCE is only way to keep PVP playable, but i guess most of OLD players who likes this dumb mechanics cos like 80% of them playing sorcs, wouldnt be happy about it.

But its up to devs, if they want to keep few hundreds happy and let this game die after a while, or they actually want to balance this game to make it playable.
Sorc is most unbalanced class is the game, with way too good everything, and what you said that NB can kill sorc in 1v1, bro im playing NB long enough to know, and if sorc is not dumb, NB has no chance, same as any other class, from big part cos of eternal 100% crit dmg resistance shields giving, while you as sorc can still hit critic, even with full HP stat char, your dmg is not even halved, i hit lets say 4k to you with zero chance for crit, you hit 2,5k to me with CHANCE to crit which means same or even bigger dmg than me as a DD while you have all your deffs/shields/heal, even in cyro, sometimes whole zerg is chasing down one sorc for 5 minutes to kill him, so [snip] youre talking about bro ...

Btw im done saying anything, cos its just a waste of time, if devs wont wake up, this games PVP is done definitely, which means way too many new players to just leave this game, when they find out about its dumb PVP mechanics, OR even better, if they try one BG to see it for themselves, Its usually unplayable to me, with understanding of mechanics rotations, knowledge of spells and how PVP works overally, while wearing best sets possible,so i can imagine how much FUN it is for new players lol.

That’s funny cause I’m a stamsorc main and I don’t use a shield, and I never have issues dealing with magsorc.

https://youtu.be/d3VSLra4Ef0?si=LVof-lDm3iuEQd-e

Sorc is broken but not as much as you’re claiming it to be. I’ve already told you the issue with magsorc. Everything else is a l2p issue for most people.

[edited to remove quote]

Wallar333

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

StaticWave youre surely 100% magsorc main, cos its actually funny how you defending OP sorc still xD.

If sorc is not completely dumb, NO OTHER CLASS can have a chance, only DK maybe, but if sorc is noot dumb, he can get away from fight to recover and come back, cos DK have no chance to catch him.
sorc still HAVE the best passives in the game, and if right build, a comically easy rotation it has incredible sustain, good enough to bo almost immortal, with streak spell, letting you get away anytime, in any direction, it makes sorc LITERALLY immortal.

You forgot to mention that cos of dmg shield, you have 100% crit immunity, which means for example NB which is CRIT CLASS, does nothing, so crit passives are 80% useless in fights, you only need to keep up shield, auto-attack- dodge - shield - heal and meanwhile using streak, which sucks whole stam bar in few seconds cos every like 4 seconds you have to use breakfree on other classes.

STREAK IS A PROBLEM, its OP spell even without stun, with its stun its just gamebreaking. You are shielded, have enough heals, YOURE KEEPING you stamina just for dodges/sprint only, which gives you just another advantage, especially while you can have other source dmg still, even when youre running away,

I saw your topic on forum, about making sorc MORE tanky ? You cant be serious about this one, other classes are leaving PVP completely, from a big part cos of sorcs, and you even want to boost them ? [snip] ....

This games PVP is dying, and only solution is to REMOVE DMG shields from pvp, reducing SELF-healing done by another % and taking stun from sorcs STREAK spell, theres literally no other problem in PVP now, and most classes are equal ... Sorcs shoudlnt be strongest class in the game lol, BALANCE is only way to keep PVP playable, but i guess most of OLD players who likes this dumb mechanics cos like 80% of them playing sorcs, wouldnt be happy about it.

But its up to devs, if they want to keep few hundreds happy and let this game die after a while, or they actually want to balance this game to make it playable.
Sorc is most unbalanced class is the game, with way too good everything, and what you said that NB can kill sorc in 1v1, bro im playing NB long enough to know, and if sorc is not dumb, NB has no chance, same as any other class, from big part cos of eternal 100% crit dmg resistance shields giving, while you as sorc can still hit critic, even with full HP stat char, your dmg is not even halved, i hit lets say 4k to you with zero chance for crit, you hit 2,5k to me with CHANCE to crit which means same or even bigger dmg than me as a DD while you have all your deffs/shields/heal, even in cyro, sometimes whole zerg is chasing down one sorc for 5 minutes to kill him, so [snip] youre talking about bro ...

Btw im done saying anything, cos its just a waste of time, if devs wont wake up, this games PVP is done definitely, which means way too many new players to just leave this game, when they find out about its dumb PVP mechanics, OR even better, if they try one BG to see it for themselves, Its usually unplayable to me, with understanding of mechanics rotations, knowledge of spells and how PVP works overally, while wearing best sets possible,so i can imagine how much FUN it is for new players lol.

Bro, shields got changed ages ago in regard of crit immunity.
Ppl hinted you now multiple times how to deal with streak as a NB. You have similar capabilities and more single target damage available....time to question ys on which end the issue lies within.

If they changed mechanics for shield to be crited, then its even more BS mechanics, cos even with crits its impossible to do any dmg ... Your noob post about on which end is the problem is funny, PVP is dead in this game, its not about me or you, its about games mechanics, and thats actually broken, if you think otherwise, well, be happy to be one of those inteligents supporting the illnes of this game, which will result in its death.
Those ppl hints you says, are a total BS lol, using shadow image againt STREAK ? you cant be serious about comparing two completely different spells, especially when shadow imago does almost no dmg, COSTS a bambilion rss you need to actually do some dmg, it teleports you to just one spot, while also NOT GIVING ANY CC unlike STREAK, so HEY, wake up ... That spell is useless in direct fight. Cos youve seen some dumb video on YT how some noob killed some noobs with it in fight like 1vX it doesnt mean its usefull, i can also kill 1vX ppl, maybe even naked sometimes, not once in BGs or cyro i won fights 1v3 or even more, but it mostly wasnt cos im good, or spells are OP, but cos those ppl were wearing some ***** and got around 6k hits without crits. So keep this crap.

NB has a bit better dmg, but its harder to play, youre always close range, so you MUST wear some deffs, otherwise you die the exact moment when leaves invis, and you have CCs only on ultimates, cos you need spell slots for DMG/bufss and few heals, theres literally no space where to put mass hysteria if you rly want to play playable build. As a solo player, you need all slots for DMG, and STILL, you wont ever kill magsorc, cos his every 4 sec stun, on which every 4 seconds you have to spend few K of stamina on for breakfree drains you out of rss in no time, while also he can easily keep distance, using dodges, ALL NB dmg can be dodged, and its verry easy to dodge 90% of NBs spells, only merciless resolve is harder, cos its instant, but it wont kill anyone one shot or idk what youre thinking.

A combination of stun/dmg and any direction teleport ALL IN ONE, is verry OP, AND THIS ONE with combination to other sorc spells, especially dmg shields and stamina reserve to use just rolldodges makes them UNKILLABLE, if there are more of them crosshealing, and EVEN better one arcanist healer, its literally a PVP grave. If you think its ok, see empty pvp in this game, theres your answer, stay happy with current state then.

[edited to remove quote]

Wallar333

StaticWave wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

StaticWave youre surely 100% magsorc main, cos its actually funny how you defending OP sorc still xD.

If sorc is not completely dumb, NO OTHER CLASS can have a chance, only DK maybe, but if sorc is noot dumb, he can get away from fight to recover and come back, cos DK have no chance to catch him.
sorc still HAVE the best passives in the game, and if right build, a comically easy rotation it has incredible sustain, good enough to bo almost immortal, with streak spell, letting you get away anytime, in any direction, it makes sorc LITERALLY immortal.

You forgot to mention that cos of dmg shield, you have 100% crit immunity, which means for example NB which is CRIT CLASS, does nothing, so crit passives are 80% useless in fights, you only need to keep up shield, auto-attack- dodge - shield - heal and meanwhile using streak, which sucks whole stam bar in few seconds cos every like 4 seconds you have to use breakfree on other classes.

STREAK IS A PROBLEM, its OP spell even without stun, with its stun its just gamebreaking. You are shielded, have enough heals, YOURE KEEPING you stamina just for dodges/sprint only, which gives you just another advantage, especially while you can have other source dmg still, even when youre running away,

I saw your topic on forum, about making sorc MORE tanky ? You cant be serious about this one, other classes are leaving PVP completely, from a big part cos of sorcs, and you even want to boost them ? [snip] ....

This games PVP is dying, and only solution is to REMOVE DMG shields from pvp, reducing SELF-healing done by another % and taking stun from sorcs STREAK spell, theres literally no other problem in PVP now, and most classes are equal ... Sorcs shoudlnt be strongest class in the game lol, BALANCE is only way to keep PVP playable, but i guess most of OLD players who likes this dumb mechanics cos like 80% of them playing sorcs, wouldnt be happy about it.

But its up to devs, if they want to keep few hundreds happy and let this game die after a while, or they actually want to balance this game to make it playable.
Sorc is most unbalanced class is the game, with way too good everything, and what you said that NB can kill sorc in 1v1, bro im playing NB long enough to know, and if sorc is not dumb, NB has no chance, same as any other class, from big part cos of eternal 100% crit dmg resistance shields giving, while you as sorc can still hit critic, even with full HP stat char, your dmg is not even halved, i hit lets say 4k to you with zero chance for crit, you hit 2,5k to me with CHANCE to crit which means same or even bigger dmg than me as a DD while you have all your deffs/shields/heal, even in cyro, sometimes whole zerg is chasing down one sorc for 5 minutes to kill him, so [snip] youre talking about bro ...

Btw im done saying anything, cos its just a waste of time, if devs wont wake up, this games PVP is done definitely, which means way too many new players to just leave this game, when they find out about its dumb PVP mechanics, OR even better, if they try one BG to see it for themselves, Its usually unplayable to me, with understanding of mechanics rotations, knowledge of spells and how PVP works overally, while wearing best sets possible,so i can imagine how much FUN it is for new players lol.

That’s funny cause I’m a stamsorc main and I don’t use a shield, and I never have issues dealing with magsorc.

https://youtu.be/d3VSLra4Ef0?si=LVof-lDm3iuEQd-e

Sorc is broken but not as much as you’re claiming it to be. I’ve already told you the issue with magsorc. Everything else is a l2p issue for most people.

I thought youre playing magsorc, so my apologize then. But even by your video, other classes would hardly survive such a fight, saw you used undo, atop of streak lol, so two teleports xD, also youve been fighting in tower, which is easiest way to fight 1vX, been in such fights too, NB can be even more annoying in those towers believe me xD. But in the open, NB would die easily, you as sorc can use streak to flee from range of MOST enemies, also stamsorc in this has also advantage, you just switch stam to be used for spells and mag for streak, so almost same as magsorc using stam only for dodges, as stam you prob have less survivability, i saw youve got some hard time, but you have better DMG than magsorc i guess, judging by hits. But still, such videos means nothing, its not about fighting/killing ppl, its about WHO youre fighting and with what sets, as i mentioned before, ive also had many such fights, i didnt understood [snip] those guys doing/wearing, cos i jumped did 3spell combo and and least 1 was dead instantly while other either started running or they did no DMG so such videos wont tell you much.
You played verry good tho .

[edited for profanity bypass & to remove quote]

Tonturri

I think Streak is mostly fine (I've seen it do not-insignificant damage sometimes, so *maybe* that could be touched on, but eh). Just for the gap closing/making area of play, I think it's a lot of other skills that are too weak. Normally I wouldn't be for buffing a whole bunch of stuff instead of nerfing a single thing, but gap closers in ESO really do leave a lot to be desired. Streak makes for a really good, flexible tool because it doesn't require a target. It gap closes, it gap makes, it CCs, the CC is unblockable, it deals damage, and all in AoE. The 2h gap closer, 1h/shield one, etc, all pale in comparison - and they should to some extent, but I think it's worth noting and hopefully changing that Streak gives sorc a *very* strong, condensed skill that other classes have to make up for because gap closer skills are usually lackluster. Imo, this is partially why we see race against time basically everywhere - because it's as close as anyone can get to streak. Snare cleanse, damage boost, speed boost. It's not a dedicated gap closer skill that's basically useless everywhere else.

I wouldn't expect skills like Stampede to suddenly be ground targeted (although they would be hella cool, melee 2h users deserve a Heroic Leap like skill...), but bringing up underperforming gap closer skills would help close the gap (heh) in the melee vs ranged sorc/x issue. Like what if gap closers flipped to a melee-only skill once in melee range? Outside the minimum range, cap closer. Inside the minimum range, some thematically appropriate skill.

I think most issues with sorc are more nuanced like this. I'm not particularly bothered by sorc doing nukes from ranged, my beef is that I'm at a heavy skill slot disadvantage if I slot a dedicated gap closer to deal with Streak. I don't mind that ranged damage is possible, but as melee I've got it rough since 'my' damage in melee isn't really any better than ranged damage, which could be fixed by something something like buffing the heck out of the physical damage status effect and increasing status effect proc chances of all melee skills (and I pretend for a moment that ranged physical damage skills don't exist, change 'em all to bleed/poison/disease damage or something).

The ward heal very obviously should just be reduced and moved to regenerative ward/removed completely, but ultimately it probably isn't really making a massive difference. Sorc has some passives that definitely need some love, but as do other classes. Everyone has a few skills that are dead in the water for whatever reason or have useless stuff tacked on, like sorc's Rune Cage. Good CC, but it has a 'does damage if stun lasts the full duration' which is...Well, it's never gonna last the full duration, or if it does it won't matter.

Sorc feels too strong, but imo it's partially a result of power creep that benefitted sorc more than other classes, as for example mag sorc used to run a bunch of LA pieces, etcetc, and had low armor/health, but now they can have their thicc wards and health has creeped up. So their previous weakness is covered more than other classes.

Let's not blame sorcs for all our problems. Just some of them.

StaticWave

Tcholl wrote: »

I am confused by some messages here. Does anyone still believes that sorcs are in a good state currently compared to other classes?

No, I think everybody is aware that Sorc is over-performing. I haven’t seen a single message here that said otherwise.

I think what I and a few people are trying to say is that Sorc is not as broken as the OP made it out to be. The objective issue of the class is Hardened Ward turning Sorc into a nigh unkillable class. It’s not Streak, damage, or class passives making Sorc broken.

Aces-High-82

Wallar333 wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

StaticWave youre surely 100% magsorc main, cos its actually funny how you defending OP sorc still xD.

If sorc is not completely dumb, NO OTHER CLASS can have a chance, only DK maybe, but if sorc is noot dumb, he can get away from fight to recover and come back, cos DK have no chance to catch him.
sorc still HAVE the best passives in the game, and if right build, a comically easy rotation it has incredible sustain, good enough to bo almost immortal, with streak spell, letting you get away anytime, in any direction, it makes sorc LITERALLY immortal.

You forgot to mention that cos of dmg shield, you have 100% crit immunity, which means for example NB which is CRIT CLASS, does nothing, so crit passives are 80% useless in fights, you only need to keep up shield, auto-attack- dodge - shield - heal and meanwhile using streak, which sucks whole stam bar in few seconds cos every like 4 seconds you have to use breakfree on other classes.

STREAK IS A PROBLEM, its OP spell even without stun, with its stun its just gamebreaking. You are shielded, have enough heals, YOURE KEEPING you stamina just for dodges/sprint only, which gives you just another advantage, especially while you can have other source dmg still, even when youre running away,

I saw your topic on forum, about making sorc MORE tanky ? You cant be serious about this one, other classes are leaving PVP completely, from a big part cos of sorcs, and you even want to boost them ? [snip] ....

This games PVP is dying, and only solution is to REMOVE DMG shields from pvp, reducing SELF-healing done by another % and taking stun from sorcs STREAK spell, theres literally no other problem in PVP now, and most classes are equal ... Sorcs shoudlnt be strongest class in the game lol, BALANCE is only way to keep PVP playable, but i guess most of OLD players who likes this dumb mechanics cos like 80% of them playing sorcs, wouldnt be happy about it.

But its up to devs, if they want to keep few hundreds happy and let this game die after a while, or they actually want to balance this game to make it playable.
Sorc is most unbalanced class is the game, with way too good everything, and what you said that NB can kill sorc in 1v1, bro im playing NB long enough to know, and if sorc is not dumb, NB has no chance, same as any other class, from big part cos of eternal 100% crit dmg resistance shields giving, while you as sorc can still hit critic, even with full HP stat char, your dmg is not even halved, i hit lets say 4k to you with zero chance for crit, you hit 2,5k to me with CHANCE to crit which means same or even bigger dmg than me as a DD while you have all your deffs/shields/heal, even in cyro, sometimes whole zerg is chasing down one sorc for 5 minutes to kill him, so [snip] youre talking about bro ...

Btw im done saying anything, cos its just a waste of time, if devs wont wake up, this games PVP is done definitely, which means way too many new players to just leave this game, when they find out about its dumb PVP mechanics, OR even better, if they try one BG to see it for themselves, Its usually unplayable to me, with understanding of mechanics rotations, knowledge of spells and how PVP works overally, while wearing best sets possible,so i can imagine how much FUN it is for new players lol.

Bro, shields got changed ages ago in regard of crit immunity.
Ppl hinted you now multiple times how to deal with streak as a NB. You have similar capabilities and more single target damage available....time to question ys on which end the issue lies within.

If they changed mechanics for shield to be crited, then its even more BS mechanics, cos even with crits its impossible to do any dmg ... Your noob post about on which end is the problem is funny, PVP is dead in this game, its not about me or you, its about games mechanics, and thats actually broken, if you think otherwise, well, be happy to be one of those inteligents supporting the illnes of this game, which will result in its death.
Those ppl hints you says, are a total BS lol, using shadow image againt STREAK ? you cant be serious about comparing two completely different spells, especially when shadow imago does almost no dmg, COSTS a bambilion rss you need to actually do some dmg, it teleports you to just one spot, while also NOT GIVING ANY CC unlike STREAK, so HEY, wake up ... That spell is useless in direct fight. Cos youve seen some dumb video on YT how some noob killed some noobs with it in fight like 1vX it doesnt mean its usefull, i can also kill 1vX ppl, maybe even naked sometimes, not once in BGs or cyro i won fights 1v3 or even more, but it mostly wasnt cos im good, or spells are OP, but cos those ppl were wearing some ***** and got around 6k hits without crits. So keep this crap.

NB has a bit better dmg, but its harder to play, youre always close range, so you MUST wear some deffs, otherwise you die the exact moment when leaves invis, and you have CCs only on ultimates, cos you need spell slots for DMG/bufss and few heals, theres literally no space where to put mass hysteria if you rly want to play playable build. As a solo player, you need all slots for DMG, and STILL, you wont ever kill magsorc, cos his every 4 sec stun, on which every 4 seconds you have to spend few K of stamina on for breakfree drains you out of rss in no time, while also he can easily keep distance, using dodges, ALL NB dmg can be dodged, and its verry easy to dodge 90% of NBs spells, only merciless resolve is harder, cos its instant, but it wont kill anyone one shot or idk what youre thinking.

A combination of stun/dmg and any direction teleport ALL IN ONE, is verry OP, AND THIS ONE with combination to other sorc spells, especially dmg shields and stamina reserve to use just rolldodges makes them UNKILLABLE, if there are more of them crosshealing, and EVEN better one arcanist healer, its literally a PVP grave. If you think its ok, see empty pvp in this game, theres your answer, stay happy with current state then.

Dude it seems you're lacking basic combat knowledge like the duration of hard CC immunity.
How to take you serious then?

PvP deterioates bc ppl are upset with core combat philosophy.....damage and healing scaling off the same stat....what a big brain move. Infinite crossheal stacking, yap seems fine to me sir. The netcode and server performance from hell - Wrobel admitted it and had to leave.

[edited to remove quote]

Tcholl

StaticWave wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

I am confused by some messages here. Does anyone still believes that sorcs are in a good state currently compared to other classes?

No, I think everybody is aware that Sorc is over-performing. I haven’t seen a single message here that said otherwise.

I think what I and a few people are trying to say is that Sorc is not as broken as the OP made it out to be. The objective issue of the class is Hardened Ward turning Sorc into a nigh unkillable class. It’s not Streak, damage, or class passives making Sorc broken.

Nice. Finally, we can all agree that some changes are needed to the class.

Wallar333

StaticWave wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

I am confused by some messages here. Does anyone still believes that sorcs are in a good state currently compared to other classes?

No, I think everybody is aware that Sorc is over-performing. I haven’t seen a single message here that said otherwise.

I think what I and a few people are trying to say is that Sorc is not as broken as the OP made it out to be. The objective issue of the class is Hardened Ward turning Sorc into a nigh unkillable class. It’s not Streak, damage, or class passives making Sorc broken.

I mostly agree with you here, i dont have a problem with sorcs passives, previously i said they are better than some other classes, which is truth in PVP, since for example NBs crits wont do much, cos ppl are wearing too much rallying cry sets and putting impen into builds, sometimes usually theres not much difference in normal/crit dmg.

As i mentioned before, its mostly bad mechanics, from which sorcs are benefiting the most, class itself could be actually ok, but now, they are simply unkillable, with also having the best pvp spell in the game, which streak definitely is. I dont mind sorcs dmg, i mind sorcs crazy resists/heals atop of infinite half bar shields.
I still insist on taking streaks stun off tho, rather give it more dmg, or put some status effect on it or something, but stun is just way too OP.

Some ppl got touched cos i said streak should not be in the game, i ment it in current state, not removing it completely, its still verry OP skill anyway, and would still be, even without stun. Trurh is, i actually got pissed, cos those encounters with sorcs are truly something, literally killing any fun of PVP in this game, and it actually pushed me to leave pvp for good, when i see whole enemy team half bar shielded right at the start of BG for example, and i get streak stunned in first three seconds, im just leaving, cos its a waste of time. Especially in 8v8 where game is mixing random groups with organised ones, which EVEN bigger BS.

Wallar333

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Dude it seems you're lacking basic combat knowledge like the duration of hard CC immunity.
How to take you serious then?

PvP deterioates bc ppl are upset with core combat philosophy.....damage and healing scaling off the same stat....what a big brain move. Infinite crossheal stacking, yap seems fine to me sir. The netcode and server performance from hell - Wrobel admitted it and had to leave.

They changed it through years maybe, it used to be 4 or 5 seconds, so even if they changed it, then how is it now ? 6 or 7 ? makes no difference about streaks OP stun anyway, so who cares about one or two seconds. I agree this scaling is incredible ***, which is major problem of the whole game mechanics, but i dont expect ZOS to do anything about it after 10 years, so not even worth discussing it. Game is soaked with heals, always was, but giving DMG shields atop of that is just crazy. For example when you jump on a group without shields, put them under CC, do some dmg to them, then even healers are saving themselves first usually after breakfree, so SOMEONE is gonna die, or at least, theres MUCH bigger probability for it.With dmg shields, you jump there, CC them, does NOTHING, cos their health is shielded, you waste your rss, and even if you manage to break at least one shield and even get someone to below 50%, they use pot/get heal and they are shielded in a second, so using execute in pvp now ? almost not a chance, i was actually thinking about throwing it away to slot mass hysteria few times.
No need to argue, this games mechanics is simpy verry bad, thats what EVERYONE should agree with, and as i said milion times before, sorcs are benefiting the most from it. This games mechanics looks completely like it was made purely for PVE, and then some intelligent got an ENORMOUS brain storm to put PVP in it, and this is how it ended.

Aces-High-82

Wallar333 wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Dude it seems you're lacking basic combat knowledge like the duration of hard CC immunity.
How to take you serious then?

PvP deterioates bc ppl are upset with core combat philosophy.....damage and healing scaling off the same stat....what a big brain move. Infinite crossheal stacking, yap seems fine to me sir. The netcode and server performance from hell - Wrobel admitted it and had to leave.

They changed it through years maybe, it used to be 4 or 5 seconds, so even if they changed it, then how is it now ? 6 or 7 ? makes no difference about streaks OP stun anyway, so who cares about one or two seconds. I agree this scaling is incredible ***, which is major problem of the whole game mechanics, but i dont expect ZOS to do anything about it after 10 years, so not even worth discussing it. Game is soaked with heals, always was, but giving DMG shields atop of that is just crazy. For example when you jump on a group without shields, put them under CC, do some dmg to them, then even healers are saving themselves first usually after breakfree, so SOMEONE is gonna die, or at least, theres MUCH bigger probability for it.With dmg shields, you jump there, CC them, does NOTHING, cos their health is shielded, you waste your rss, and even if you manage to break at least one shield and even get someone to below 50%, they use pot/get heal and they are shielded in a second, so using execute in pvp now ? almost not a chance, i was actually thinking about throwing it away to slot mass hysteria few times.
No need to argue, this games mechanics is simpy verry bad, thats what EVERYONE should agree with, and as i said milion times before, sorcs are benefiting the most from it. This games mechanics looks completely like it was made purely for PVE, and then some intelligent got an ENORMOUS brain storm to put PVP in it, and this is how it ended.

ESO was designed as mass pvp with themepark PvE attached to it at first.
Due to massive cheating the combat calcs had to be changed in most cases to be serverside (ofc you can do many unintended things as long as you account for the periodic serversided checks on divers parameters LOL).
That happened with a "bandaid" update without addjusting the server structure accordingly.
At that point the downward spiral for PvP started....sure there had been some better and worse updates but the devs focus shifted to PvE bc fashion and housing shop income from the PvE Andys are responsible for a steady income.
Whatever they tried to improve the performance, like lower the pop cap, deleting huntable game etc., didn't work out in the end. One reason might be the bloated code where everyone and his mother at ZoS seems added lines to it.
Cyro used to be an epic mass PvP experience....just sadge what it became nowadays.

kiwi_tea

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

The only nerf magsorc deserves is the heal on the shield. Everything else is not an issue

Continuing from the other Sorc thread, I still disagree here. The BashSorc spec you yourself said is a problem IIRC is not a Ward build. I see the Sorc problem as ranged nuke spam combined with disengage/reengage spam, which even mid players can threaten. There are serious problems with Sorc class design beyond just Ward, which has already been nerfed. I can kill Ward MagSorcs on my DK if I get in their face and outplay them, as I should be able to.

The common ground between my mid MagSorc problem and your BashSorc problem: the teleport spam.

I totally agree with this assessment. The problem with sorcs - now that I am playing MagSorc - is the completely disproportionate control you have over whether the engage happens and your ability to disengage. A mid-magsorc (ie, me) simply does not have to take a bad fight, even if they play badly and get themselves into one that deserves punishment. A magsorc can leave almost every fight in open world. They can just leave.