Sorcerer disease spreading and other problems

Wallar333

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

Turtle i see your point, but no one here wants to DELETE sorcs, all i say, and what most ppl wants, is to CHANGE the class, and it MUST be done for the sake of the rest of the community. Actually i agree you and StaticWave knows that class much better than me, thats without doubt, so i cant say if ONLY ward is the problem, maybe yes, maybe not, to me sorc would still be strong, even without it, would be MUCH harder to play thats for sure, but hey, pvp is about to be challenging, not about running around killing everyone cos of bad OP mechanics forced by part of the community to have advantage. You say it needed buffs, bro, ward or not, its still a VERRY strong class, while you also have streak as best positioning/stun/dmg spell all in one in the game.

About NB beeing easy to play, bro, theres no class easy to play, and there never was, till ZOS made god-mode for sorcs. All classes have their advantages/disadvantages, NB is strong, and easy to play as ambusher/ganker, but in face to face combat its usually getting melted by DKs and templars, if NB attacks first, they usually win the fight, but otherwise they just die, you cant keep distance with NB, when you jump on the enemy, its usually one way ticket, as all other classes in the game, with only exception, guess which one.

The problem is, ZOS did too much for sorcs to help them, especially by making streak to cost less, while they kept their DMG and all, but they still kept crying, so ZOS did this mammoth step into the one big smelly **** and gave sorc ward, at here we are now. If they take ward, what will happen ? forum will be full of sorcs crying about something, this leads nowhere. Even without ward sorc is a VERRY STRONG RANGE DD CLASS, and yes, you have two undodgable spells which one of them is any directio TELEPORT/DMG/HARD CC all in one spell, atop of other source dmg like pets/dots, so really bro, what esle sorc community wanted i just cant get it lol ...

Now literally ALL other classes sucks cos ZOS made ONE class happy, and here we are. Sorc part of community PUSHED ZOS to give them ward, which led to this state, so literally sorc part of community is responsible for this.
Btw i agree that some sets are also actually crazy in the game, in combinations of some classes spells, but thats for another topic, cos its caused by set, not the class itself. But sorc problem, is literally a sorc problem.

A few things to unpack here (again...)

You say no-one wants to delete sorcs, but then a few posts later you go on a massive rant of everything about the entire class being overpowered from "immortality", to mobility, to damage. The entire thread is nothing but complaints about the entire sorc class kit, even the title reads as though you want sorc deleted.

As @Joy_Division said:

Joy_Division wrote: »
I don't presume anything when it comes to posters I don;t know unless their comments make it obvious they just don;t understand how PvP works. Sorc is my second most played solo class and I know it's S tier. But DK, NB, and Warden are not that far behind and can absolutely beat it. So nerfing it across the board as numerous people are calling for instead of addressing what is actually making it S Tier (Ward) is wrongheaded.

I also want to re-iterate and expand on Joy's point, because the general complaints (that should be more specific) that we see in this thread, happened before in the past, and it resulted in sorc being deleted from PvP.

In U34, there was 1 specific sorc build that was extremely overpowered: Proc stacking bowsorc with the savage werewolf set, that would instantly melt players from full health after 3-4 seconds of light attacks. This build specifically relied on savage werewolf stacking it's proc ontop of itself multiple times over multiple light attacks (that used to work at max range) to reach insane damage over time values. This was also the only S+ tier sorc build at the time and was exclusively a stamsorc build. At the time, people made generic complaints about sorc, the same generic complaints we see in this thread, complaining about the entire class kit instead of complaining about the 1 specific build that was overpowered and leaving it up to the devs to "make fixes".
The result of those complaints, was that in U35, ZOS nerfed the entire sorc class kit, on-top of the general nerfs every class got to DoTs. Mines, Armaments, Crystal Weapon, Atro, etc. all got nerfed. The only thing that didn't get nerfed was Streak. The result of those nerfs was that very same PTS cycle, Sorc was in such a bad state, even on ZOS's own balance spreadsheets, that in week 5 of that PTS, ZOS went back and re-buffed Armaments and Daedric prey's damage by 100% or more as a temporary "oh-crap we went too far, quick do something" measure to try and make sorc playable again. Those panic-buffs allowed for stam pet-sorc to participate in PvE content (well except for vet trials/trifectas and prog groups), but those buffs did nothing for sorc in PvP, where the class simply vanished entirely.
It remained like this from U35, where Sorc kill quests in PvP were always abandoned, until U37, where after months of feedback and video evidence of sorcs being unplayable, ZOS finally started to look into fixing sorc.
It started with simple QoL buffs such as making Atro synergy buff the whole group instead of only half the group, some changes to scamp concussed status proc chance, increased liquid lightning AoE, and hardened ward made to scale off the higher of health or mag.
None of those changes made much difference in PvP, outside of a few sorc mains that tried a 45k health build with draugrkin, but they were still rare in PvP and weren't that strong, especially when warden could do the exact same build but better due to better passives and polar wind. Those changes did give pet-sorc a niche in PvE as a way to provide group wide major berserk.
It wasn't until U41, when ZOS finally got around to completely overhauling many sorc abilities (vibrant shroud, expert summoner passive, blood magic passive, Haunting curse, Mages wrath, etc.), introduced scribing (wield soul, contingency, soul burst) and also gave ward a heal, that sorc became what we see today.

This is why I am very skeptical of the claims being made of not wanting the class deleted, even if that is the case, because the last time the exact same general complaints were made about sorc that are being made here, that should have been complaints about a specific build instead, the entire class did get deleted from PvP, for over 6 months.




I'm not sure what "Sorc community" you have been talking to, but no sorc main I know/talked to ever asked for current ward. As I said before, what was asked for by sorc mains was buffs/changes to abilities that would make sorcs abilities equal to what other classes had, so that sorc could be equal to the other classes when played by an average player and not exclusively when played by a top 0.00001% sweat-lord, one-trick, sorc-main. Buffed ward was exclusively a ZOS decision, not a "sorc community" decision.



As for streak, it got it's ramping cost (not base cost) reduced 6 years ago, as shown in the link to the UESP wiki page, that shows every change made to bolt escape and morphs through the entire history of ESO, that I posted/linked on the previous page (page 4) of this thread:

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Here's a link to the UESP page on Bolt escape (and morphs) with all the information I've shown here on the changes to streak/BoL throughout this games life.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Bolt_Escape

Streaks reduced ramping cost is nothing new and made zero difference to sorc being too strong, because if it did, then sorc would not have needed any buffs (which was clearly not the case since even vast majority of non-sorcs agreed that pre ward-buff sorc needed buffs back then due to being a super weak class, even necro mains agreed sorc was bad back then and needed buffs, and that's saying something considering the state of necro).

Im actually having enough of any discussion here, just admit sorc class is destroying whole games pvp lol. Cos of ward? Maybe yes, maybe not, but that class is strong EVEN WITHOUT IT AS I SAID MILION TIMES, so what youre trying here bro ? You think ppl have any fun playing ANY pvp in this game while sorcs are playing like their own game here ?

Sorc class IS overally OP, so what youre trying ? YES, you have immortality now thanks to ward, YES you have mobility now thanks to streak and YES you have DMG thanks to strong R*A*N*G*E DD spells, so im asking again WHAT ARE YOU TRYING HERE BRO ?

YES sorc community kept crying about class still needs buffs, ZOS gave you buffs, and now it looks exactly how it looks lol. I truly dont understand what sorcs wanted to achieve, probably exactly what they achieved, a god-mode for their own class ONLY. Every class community have its own problems, everyone would like to have something different, templars could want jesus beam to deal 2000% extra dmg, necromances would like to have some BIG BOOM rotten **** storm as one shot AOE skill, DKs would like to turtle themselves for immortality etc. etc. [snip]

[edited for flaming]

Tcholl

Some ppl get VERY sensitive, when we make any suggestions here about sorcs.

One could relate this forum agenda to the ongoing situation.

For the LAST TIME, I DO NOT WANT TO DELETE ANY CLASS. Please, kindly refrain from quote my post to create a false narrative. Come up with your own arguments.

Tcholl

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

And given ZOS's history of balance the past 4-5 years, I do not trust them to "work on a proper solution"

The recent Ward nerf was very reasonable, as were the nerfs to Tarnished Nightmare and Vamp 3, and there's still not really any point trying to "solve" development problems ourselves, player solutions are just fanfiction. Maybe another Ward nerf will fix the Sorc spam meta, maybe it won't. You don't need Ward if you're never getting hit to begin with.

All I know is that this PvP is not as fun as it should be, because I'm constantly sweating over getting shot by off-screen machine guns that teleport away and back if I dare try to counter them (then sweating more over the risk of instant death pull bombs, but that's the other thread). There's no payoff to all this sweat, it's just exhausting and unfun.

This is exactly what I am trying to say, changes have to be made and now it is up to the devs to come up with a good solution.

For saying that, I have been attacked and accused here. I haven't even made suggestions, just maybe didn't support their fanfictions.

StaticWave

Sometimes the l2p comment is appropriate, and it definitely does not go both ways.

xylena_lazarow

Tcholl wrote: »

I haven't even made suggestions, just maybe didn't support their fanfictions.

Definitely not wrong. Too many players, even good ones, get way too invested in their own "solutions" to complex game development problems best left to professional game developers. There's no need to argue whose fanfiction is superior, nor demand that critics or skeptics also roleplay as devs in their arguments.

Wallar333

StaticWave wrote: »

Sometimes the l2p comment is appropriate, and it definitely does not go both ways.

You can keep your l2p arguments for yourself, its obvious enough that sorc is way too OP, so again, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING HERE ? Even without ward sorc will probably still be most powerfull ***RANGE*** DD PVP class in the game, so what are you sorc guys trying here ? Afraid to loose your god-mode spell atop of all other *** you already have ? Sorc now deals more range dmg than NB at close range lol, atop of everything else, so *** are you saying here about l2p ...

I actually tried enough to see your point as well, but you obviously dont care about others opinions at all, and now even said some **** about l2p, incredible. At least everyone can see what kind of ppl are playing such classes, ITS IN EVERY GAME, always the same story.

Now ZOS even calming me down in this discussion. And i agree that this discussion is not going the constructive way anymore. Your comment about l2p just shows where its going. As well as other sorcs comments who are still trying to defend your cancerous class. So im done discussing this, judging by sorcs passives/spells, it will still be a VERRY strong class even without your god-mode spell, taking stun from streak could ease this problem, and it could maybe even make your class to be even to others, and maybe there will actually be just one class to be balanced, which is necromancer, and i would say ALL classes would be more less EVEN. But you sorcs dont even want to hear about it, so for you, its not about balancing looks like.

StaticWave

Wallar333 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Sometimes the l2p comment is appropriate, and it definitely does not go both ways.

You can keep your l2p arguments for yourself, its obvious enough that sorc is way too OP, so again, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING HERE ? Even without ward sorc will probably still be most powerfull ***RANGE*** DD PVP class in the game, so what are you sorc guys trying here ? Afraid to loose your god-mode spell atop of all other *** you already have ? Sorc now deals more range dmg than NB at close range lol, atop of everything else, so *** are you saying here about l2p ...

I actually tried enough to see your point as well, but you obviously dont care about others opinions at all, and now even said some **** about l2p, incredible. At least everyone can see what kind of ppl are playing such classes, ITS IN EVERY GAME, always the same story.

Now ZOS even calming me down in this discussion. And i agree that this discussion is not going the constructive way anymore. Your comment about l2p just shows where its going. As well as other sorcs comments who are still trying to defend your cancerous class. So im done discussing this, judging by sorcs passives/spells, it will still be a VERRY strong class even without your god-mode spell, taking stun from streak could ease this problem, and it could maybe even make your class to be even to others, and maybe there will actually be just one class to be balanced, which is necromancer, and i would say ALL classes would be more less EVEN. But you sorcs dont even want to hear about it, so for you, its not about balancing looks like.

No, I just find it amusing that you’re complaining so much about the class that to me and others, it looks like you genuinely want the class gutted. It’s very clear you’re dissatisfied with Sorc and that’s OK. You have the right to feel that way, but if you make a thread asking for balance changes, I expect you to give a thorough and precise reasoning for your complaints. From what I’ve seen here, it doesn’t look that way because I can post video clips of me fighting above average magsorcs and disprove most of your claims.

Like, I’m not trying to be rude but most of the stuff you complain about is solvable by improving in the game. Only a few things in this game are legitimate issues that need to be addressed, such as Hardened Ward and Rush of Agony which I am strongly advocating for nerfs. If I actually thought Sorc was fine like you’re claiming me to be, I wouldn’t be making 4 Ward nerf threads when Ward got buffed. I would just shut up and abuse it instead lol.

Afterip

StaticWave wrote: »

I can post video clips of me fighting above average magsorcs and disprove most of your claims.

Stamsorc is slightly weaker than magsorc, but still strong. It is not surprising that good stamsorc players can fight and defeat magsorcs. But what about other classes? What are the chances of a necromancer winning a fight with a magsorc?
Not all classes can fight on equal terms with magsorcs...

xylena_lazarow

StaticWave wrote: »

such as Hardened Ward and Rush of Agony which I am strongly advocating for nerfs

Obviously I agree that Rushing Agony should be launched into the sun, but you haven't proven that post-nerf Ward is still a problem. The first nerf didn't reduce the Sorc spam, yet we can now both reliably beat OW MagSorc 1v1 on melee specs, and you yourself note that OW MagSorcs actually die a lot when they try to 1vX. So how are they too tanky? The dominant play pattern of range spam, disengage, reengage, repeat is unfun toxic PvP, and is not being caused by Ward.

Wallar333

StaticWave wrote: »

Wallar333 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Sometimes the l2p comment is appropriate, and it definitely does not go both ways.

You can keep your l2p arguments for yourself, its obvious enough that sorc is way too OP, so again, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING HERE ? Even without ward sorc will probably still be most powerfull ***RANGE*** DD PVP class in the game, so what are you sorc guys trying here ? Afraid to loose your god-mode spell atop of all other *** you already have ? Sorc now deals more range dmg than NB at close range lol, atop of everything else, so *** are you saying here about l2p ...

I actually tried enough to see your point as well, but you obviously dont care about others opinions at all, and now even said some **** about l2p, incredible. At least everyone can see what kind of ppl are playing such classes, ITS IN EVERY GAME, always the same story.

Now ZOS even calming me down in this discussion. And i agree that this discussion is not going the constructive way anymore. Your comment about l2p just shows where its going. As well as other sorcs comments who are still trying to defend your cancerous class. So im done discussing this, judging by sorcs passives/spells, it will still be a VERRY strong class even without your god-mode spell, taking stun from streak could ease this problem, and it could maybe even make your class to be even to others, and maybe there will actually be just one class to be balanced, which is necromancer, and i would say ALL classes would be more less EVEN. But you sorcs dont even want to hear about it, so for you, its not about balancing looks like.

No, I just find it amusing that you’re complaining so much about the class that to me and others, it looks like you genuinely want the class gutted. It’s very clear you’re dissatisfied with Sorc and that’s OK. You have the right to feel that way, but if you make a thread asking for balance changes, I expect you to give a thorough and precise reasoning for your complaints. From what I’ve seen here, it doesn’t look that way because I can post video clips of me fighting above average magsorcs and disprove most of your claims.

Like, I’m not trying to be rude but most of the stuff you complain about is solvable by improving in the game. Only a few things in this game are legitimate issues that need to be addressed, such as Hardened Ward and Rush of Agony which I am strongly advocating for nerfs. If I actually thought Sorc was fine like you’re claiming me to be, I wouldn’t be making 4 Ward nerf threads when Ward got buffed. I would just shut up and abuse it instead lol.

Bro, i really dont know what are you trying here, i guess you just have no idea how other classes feel about playing this pvp diseased by sorc class. As you and others stated, youve been crying about boosting sorcs before ZOS gave you ward, and it came to this point, so what are you trying rly ? you think that class is WEAK if it wont have ward or what ? Also if streak gets nerfed, cos it should be nerfed also, lol. Compare your spells/passives with ANY other class in the game, its literally a JOKE, so what are you trying ? ....

For you, im complaining ? This isnt about me, as i said before, im just a guy answering, almost the whole community have enough of sorcs class, its not just mine opinion. Only sorcs are defending sorc class here, why is that so ? ... You and other just accusing us all of wanting to GUT YOUR CLASS, you kidding ? WE WANT BALANCE, and there are literally just two things i would change, as im stating by the start ! Streaks stun, and ward to be removed/changed for something what wont ruin whole games pvp, so stop accusing others just cos you feel touched, and actually try to see WHY are ppl angry on sorcs.

As for your precise reasoning, you kidding i hope right ? Say youre kidding ... I think i said my problems with sorcs precisely enough for anyone to understand, so what are you trying ? Your video clips bro, are worth the same as sorcs defence about *ITS NOT THAT OP*. You fighting above average magsorcs, bro, youve been fighting some noobs during whitestrake event in probably pve gears, ive killed whole groups of those during the event, usually 1v3. This whole discussion is about END GAME PVP GAMEPLAY, not fighting some 12yo noobs who have no idea how they got into cyro. You actually disproved nothing by your defence, even video you posted just shows how annoying and OP your class is, really just check sorcs passives and compare them ANY other class, for PVP sorcs have definitely the best passives, and also strong RANGE dmg, and sorcs still kept crying about getting buffs, i really dont know what else to say, you just dont want to see a reason, you still have just your own view on all of this.

About your improving in the game, sure, i would keep posting the same words when sorcs get nerfed finally, IN EVERY topic, even if they nerf sorcs to zero DMG/DEFF/RESISTS etc. i will keep saying, *LOL ITS L2P ISSUE, LEARN TO PLAY* so again, ppl can actually see what kind of ppl are playing sorcs, and exactly this led to this state of pvp.
Try Other class for pvp for at least few months, i rly hope youll get just sorcs against you, and i would be *AMUSED* what youll say then, and how your videos would looks like.
In those videos of yours, youll be dead 10 times if you wouldnt have streak, just shows how annoying and OP that class is even without ward. And NO, no other class would survive such a fight, against PVP players, other classes would 100% die, including DKs, cos WE ALL have no chance to get away like sorcs, NBs have invis, but its still not that easy to get away with it, definitely not as its easy with streak, while you have DMG and STUN included on that annoying spell.
About your opinion on nerfs, sure i agree about those two, but im sure your partly doing that cos you probably have a bit more intelligence than other sorcs, so you understand that such OP **** on ALREADY OP class, would end with EXTREME nerfing which is exactly what youre afraid of, so you maybe did some things in advance to prevent such nerfing, cos even without ward, its most probably strongest PVP range DD in the game, ward is just a cherry on the top of a pie of it, and you as a long-term sorc player know it verry well.
So why all this nonsense ? And while you still wants to boost sorc in other ways? You want to nerf ward, cos you know well its still a verry strong class, and you want nerfing ward, probably cos you want ZOS to give you something else, cos ward is just WAY TOO MUCH. Actually no matter how ZOS deals with ward, sorc class is still OP as hell, and no one changes my opinion about this. As i said before, your RANGE dmg is almost as big as NBs melee dmg, especially when using heavy attack builds, which also grants you crazy sustain to take your wards or cast milions streaks in a row, and this is just SORC/NB comparison, which are both verry strong classes, so how you think the rest of the community like templars/arcanists or necromancers feel ? And youre defending your class still, even when knowing this ! ...

So i also dont want to be rude, sorcs SHOULD be nerfed, and you should l2p a fair PVP after it. Im done.

Tcholl

Maybe, some players need to learn how to play the game and not the forum.

Tcholl

Also, very rich to see someone saying to l2p and asking for a nerf to roa cos can't deal with the blockable pull.

xylena_lazarow

Tcholl wrote: »

Also, very rich to see someone saying to l2p and asking for a nerf to roa cos can't deal with the blockable pull.

The point isn't that MagSorc or RoA are literally impossible to counter (they're not), but that they're sweaty and unfun to play against. Position yourself perfectly as you track all the off screen machine guns and invisible black holes every millisecond of the fight, or you risk dying instantly (and taking your own team with you). Who exactly wants to do this?

Tcholl

I agree and also said in the other post that the set is very strong and over used. I enjoy ROA, will run in a ballgroup tonight using it and have no problems to admit.

Now, if you tell others to learn how to play, why don't you take the same advice for yourself? Or maybe, just avoid such comments that will add nothing to the conversation.

StaticWave

Tcholl wrote: »

I agree and also said in the other post that the set is very strong and over used. I enjoy ROA, will run in a ballgroup tonight using it and have no problems to admit.

Now, if you tell others to learn how to play, why don't you take the same advice for yourself? Or maybe, just avoid such comments that will add nothing to the conversation.

RoA isn’t just “very strong”. It’s broken lol. RoA is the only set in the game that unites NB and Sorc players. It makes Sorc look like child’s play when we’re talking about balance issues.

I’ve already posted several clips proving why l2p does not apply to RoA. You can’t really use that against me because RoA doesn’t even obey its own rules lmao.

StaticWave

Afterip wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I can post video clips of me fighting above average magsorcs and disprove most of your claims.

Stamsorc is slightly weaker than magsorc, but still strong. It is not surprising that good stamsorc players can fight and defeat magsorcs. But what about other classes? What are the chances of a necromancer winning a fight with a magsorc?
Not all classes can fight on equal terms with magsorcs...

Can a Necro tank a magsorc? Definitely. Can it kill? Probably not. You’re comparing one of the worst classes in ESO vs one of the best classes. That’s already an unfair comparison.

Templar, DK, NB, and Warden can kill Sorc on equal terms. I can guarantee this because I’m also an avid dueler and I’ve spectated these classes duel vs good magsorcs and they come out on top. Obviously, those players need to be very good to overcome the slight disadvantage, but it doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

AngryNecro

StaticWave wrote: »

Can a Necro tank a magsorc? Definitely. Can it kill? Probably not. You’re comparing one of the worst classes in ESO vs one of the best classes. That’s already an unfair comparison.

Templar, DK, NB, and Warden can kill Sorc on equal terms. I can guarantee this because I’m also an avid dueler and I’ve spectated these classes duel vs good magsorcs and they come out on top. Obviously, those players need to be very good to overcome the slight disadvantage, but it doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

wow wow wow " You’re comparing one of the worst classes in ESO vs one of the best classes" so we have best and worst class? so mabe sorc need beduff What would balance everything out?
"those players need to be very good to overcome the slight disadvantage" so we have disadvantage? xD so mabe sorc need beduff What would balance everything out? hehehe 6 page you say "no no no sorc not need debuff" but now sorc already best class and other need slight disadvantage) so that what about we told xD

in realy i need only necro fixing and the other classes have access to buffs and tools what Sorс has through scribing. its been enuf for me. but if they been debuff for 0 I'll be happy about that too.

AngryNecro

StaticWave wrote: »

RoA isn’t just “very strong”. It’s broken lol. RoA is the only set in the game that unites NB and Sorc players. It makes Sorc look like child’s play when we’re talking about balance issues.

I’ve already posted several clips proving why l2p does not apply to RoA. You can’t really use that against me because RoA doesn’t even obey its own rules lmao.

when sorc told about broken RoA its duble-triple-quadriple lol xD
RoA fine) not broken and obeys the mechanics that are set up not only in this set.

with new Jerensi's Bladestorm with right second set or right skill you can bild some think more dangures than RoA. oh and new monster. So you dont see that now but RoA already not the strongest set. Jerensi's Bladestorm can deal too you 3-6k damage in sec. and with right skills you not go anywahre. By the way Jerensi's Bladestorm now its be one of best RoA contr. cors with right skill too.

xylena_lazarow

Quoted post has been removed.

The ball group problem is the organized large scale version of the Sorc problem.

Sorc: range spam, Streak away and back, range spam, Streak away and back, range spam, Streak...

Ball: bomb, disengage and run around, bomb, disengage and run around, bomb, disengage and run around...

Skill can't stop this unless you have extremely specific tools, i.e. another teleporting ranged Sorc or rolling ball group so you can do the same thing but better. Otherwise it's impractical/impossible to keep up with their movement enough to threaten them. When the best counterplay to a strat is... the same strat? That's definitively broken.

DaisyRay

I didn't read the entire post because it was too long, but I think I get what bothers you. I personally disagree.

I've been a main sorc for almost all my four years on eso, even back when I was on Xbox. The upgrade to sorcs has been such a boon for someone like me who isn't the most coordinated. I'm not unkillable, but I can hold my own in most 1v1s now and I love it. I rarely even use my streak, I mostly use it to get away when I'm being zerged down.

I don't think the problem is the sorc class, but the op sweatlords who push it past what us normal sorcs do. (not that I mind that, do you boo) It doesn't matter what class they use, they will always find a way to go above and beyond to get the max performance.

Right now, Wardens are the meta. No one is crying to nerf wardens though. (maybe they are and I just haven't seen it)

From what I've been told, sorcs were a lot worse back in the day and then they got a nerf which made us one of the weakest. Now that we've finally got a little buff, everyone is trying to tear it down again.

Here is a video of one of the old sorcs:

https://youtu.be/NvYYjsAoIK0?si=LOKBI00PqamEeKHn&t=70

xylena_lazarow

DaisyRay wrote: »

I don't think the problem is the sorc class, but the op sweatlords who push it past what us normal sorcs do. Right now, Wardens are the meta

You see more Wardens in comp groups but more Sorcs outside that, and comp groups still want Sorcs for Negate. Warden being a melee class is inherently more skill and risk even for sweatlords, who tend to play Sorc in BGs because it will consistently give them a better KDA while demanding less sweat.

Once upon a time, before CP, we had "soft caps" to limit extreme minmaxing of one stat, cutting gains to a fraction after a certain threshhold. It worked pretty well. They were deleted for the sake of the CP system promising infinite progression (lol). Single stat minmaxing is part of what ends up making MagSorc so overpowered, since most other stats become irrelevant, you build and play as if they don't even exist, literally a degenerate version of the game.

Afterip

DaisyRay wrote: »

Sorc's upgrade made a weak player average and a strong player invincible.
Right now a lot of gankers in IC are Sorcs, even NB are not so common.

Wallar333

DaisyRay wrote: »

I didn't read the entire post because it was too long, but I think I get what bothers you. I personally disagree.

I've been a main sorc for almost all my four years on eso, even back when I was on Xbox. The upgrade to sorcs has been such a boon for someone like me who isn't the most coordinated. I'm not unkillable, but I can hold my own in most 1v1s now and I love it. I rarely even use my streak, I mostly use it to get away when I'm being zerged down.

I don't think the problem is the sorc class, but the op sweatlords who push it past what us normal sorcs do. (not that I mind that, do you boo) It doesn't matter what class they use, they will always find a way to go above and beyond to get the max performance.

Right now, Wardens are the meta. No one is crying to nerf wardens though. (maybe they are and I just haven't seen it)

From what I've been told, sorcs were a lot worse back in the day and then they got a nerf which made us one of the weakest. Now that we've finally got a little buff, everyone is trying to tear it down again.

Here is a video of one of the old sorcs:

https://youtu.be/NvYYjsAoIK0?si=LOKBI00PqamEeKHn&t=70

Im not surprised at all that youre sorc main, cos only sorcs are defending sorc class here, surprisingly hah. Im sure you love it, cos sorc now is just OP **** that broke whole games PVP balance between classes, as well as it made close range and long range equal in DMG for them, which is just crazy ****** that should not exist in ANY MMORPG EVER. This is exactly the problem which is made by MOST game developers, listening to community too much, cos always the biggest addicted noobs wants to have as much advantage as possible, and such ppl are ALWAYS the loudest, so they get what they want sonner or later. And thanks to streak is sorc exactly every noobs pick.
Sorc is stronger as RANGE DD as NB as MELEE DD while also having streak which is prividing sorcs with best positioning in the game, and allowing them to just leave the combat if it goes bad, Buffing such class is like dropping a **** on the rest of the community.
When for example NB has to get to close range to do any significant dmg, WITHOUT anything similar to either streak OR ward, and sorc class have BOTH atop of RANGE DMG as big as NBs MELEE DMG, then something is seriously wrong here. Not to mention other classes which are even worse in this than NBs lol.

Buffing sorc was incredible OVERSTEP, and it happend only cos sorcs kept crying, which makes me really **** cos i hate this in games, cos this is runing every game. As i mentioned before, EVERY class would like to have something different, some spell boosted etc. but JESUS where do we get when everyone will be crying ? You know where, exactly where we are now, with sorc class OP as hell. Sorcs stopped crying finally, cos theyve got what they wanted, and now theyre trying to defend that OP cancer of theirs.

Bro, IT DEFINITELY MATTER WHICH CLASS THEY USE, cos MOST of them are playing sorc class, why ? Well, you can wonder hah. You mentioned wardens, sure, but what makes some wardens such OP ? Their builds, not their class itself, its OP ONLY when wearing a few exact builds. Its simply cuased by IN-GAME sets, not by the class itself, while sorc problem IS LITERALLY a sorc problem caused by their passives/spells, no matter which builds theyre using. Sorc class is now ONLY class that can use TWO DMG set builds and still have incredible survivability, while ALL other classes needs to use one DMG and one DEFF sets as DDs, which is caused by combination of ward/streak and strong RANGE dmg.

EVERY aspect of PVP is ruined cos of sorcs now, even ganking. IC is full of sorcs, during W. mayhem it was incredible to watch, how one sorc was fighting 5 pvp guys, and even if not killing any of them and been having a hard moments (usually cos got stunned), he was able to PLAY with them, and doing significant dmg on range. You think its normal that one class have ALL OF THIS ? If you do, then i definitely disagree with you.
Ive fought these guys during mayhem SO MANY times, and jesus when they were as group that was something. I think i never seen any of them die lol. When theyve been using bows on back bars, NO ONE could catch them, they could come, kill one or two ppl and get away in literally few seconds, NO OTHER CLASS CAN POSSIBLY DO THAT. NB gankers were present too, but ive witnessed maybe like two actually broken, but cos of rush of agony set, which is just one of those sets that shouldnt ever existed, but otherwise no problem with those. NB ganker usually wont get away from fight, in most cases they died, cos they wont get away that fast as sorcs can.

Im not only person who is refusing to play any pvp in this game, literally just cos of sorc class and few builds. But i guess this all leads to NOTHING, i dont expect ZOS to move a finger about sorcs, if they didnt for idk how long time, and let this games pvp to get into this state. So ill stay playing some pve, and when ill complete some achievements and have enough, then ill just leave to wait for another game expansion to play, as most of the community is doing. Cos playing pvp is incredible **** in this game, and im actually diseased enough by sorc class, that seeing streak is enough for me to vomit, cos ive seen those dumb fights with this class so many times lol. Literally i would not even need to play pvp in this game EVER, if ill be someone new in this games pvp, i would have enough just seeing one video of sorc fight, ill have enough right away. Im literally confused what ZOS been thinking when they were boosting that class.

Afterip said the exact point of this, this boosting made noobs to be good, and good players to be invincible. This shouldnt ever happend in the first place, cos it also made MANY ppl to refuse to play any pvp in this game, me included. And till sorcs wont be nerfed, ill never play any pvp ever again, cos ill play to have fun, not to getting melted by some noobs only cos games mechanics is like it is, and those noobs are playing some incredibly OP class that is almost unkillable in current state. And i would never fall so deep to play that class as well, as many others did, and support this cancer, so only solution is to just leave pvp for good.

My opinion is that ONLY PVE and community aspects are keeping this game alive now, cos MOST of the community are not playing pvp at all. There are many reasons to this, choosing right sets/builds is hard, everyone likes a different gameplay, new ppl needs to try more sets to understand whats going on, they need to train a bit, see what/how other classes doing/working and such, but thats IMPOSSIBLE when they try, and what they see ? Unkillable sorcs streaking through half of tamriel with full bar DMG shields doing more DMG than these new guys with anything they have lol. So what they do ? They either just leave the whole game, or they end up playing just PVE, and here we are, pvp is dead here. Cyro is as fun as funeral cos of ballgroups ( usually made by multiple sorcs and DKs) and few dumb sets. BGs are usually either unplayable, or easy as pie literally. Ive witnessed like EQUAL BG probably not even 10 times this year. While usually team with either sorcs OR some dumb sets are winning, OR one team has a healer and other one hasnt lol, those are even better. But BIGGEST FUN is when youre facing a small ball group in 8v8 BG, thats an experience lol.
ZOS did just another mistake by letting ppl to group for the BGs, that caused just another mess, to already messed up PVP.

Quackery

Keep Sorcerers exactly the way they are. I'm tired of all these threads pushing for a nerf over and over again. Sorcs have already been nerfed to hell, so God forbid that we have the ability to heal ourselves without wasting stamina. DK's will always have a field day against us if we can't heal ourselves outside of using Dark...something (name has slipped my mind) which eats up our stamina.

xylena_lazarow

Quackery wrote: »

Sorcs have already been nerfed to hell

Yes, the first time Sorc was nerfed in PvP, it was for the same reasons as now. Degenerate single stat builds, too tanky for something that spams teleports, too much damage for such long range. So if it was nerfed for those reasons then, yes it should be nerfed for those reasons now, but maybe less of a sledgehammer this time.

TyrantNikolai

Sorc in general is insane damage no doubt. Mag sorc is op since they don't have to play melee and ontop of that have the ability to streak even further away when their bunny senses kick in. Even worse having heal power that is on par and shield power that is above and beyond any other class beside Arc ultimate which is limited to ulti gen. Lets not be delusional...

katorga

StaticWave wrote: »

The only nerf magsorc deserves is the heal on the shield. Everything else is not an issue

Open world, trad sorcs just bunny hop around the edges of ball groups and zergs trying to get a kill here or there. Inefficient and useless.

BGs max mag sorcs are more effective since they are less impacted by loss of CP, but again, the trad sorc burst model is inefficient. Much better builds available, and once you go the that route your shield becomes small and a waste of resources, but your heals stay enormous. There are quite a few off meta (not max mag, shield sorc) hybrid sorc builds that are devastating in BGs and don't use hardened ward.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Quoted post has been removed.

The ball group problem is the organized large scale version of the Sorc problem.

Sorc: range spam, Streak away and back, range spam, Streak away and back, range spam, Streak...

Ball: bomb, disengage and run around, bomb, disengage and run around, bomb, disengage and run around...

Skill can't stop this unless you have extremely specific tools, i.e. another teleporting ranged Sorc or rolling ball group so you can do the same thing but better. Otherwise it's impractical/impossible to keep up with their movement enough to threaten them. When the best counterplay to a strat is... the same strat? That's definitively broken.

Interest point.

Classic mag sorc is a pesty class at this point. You see them hopping around the fringes of fights trying to scavenge single kills. Slow, inefficient. Put on RoA/Jerensi and bomb, disengage, round around and bomb again.

The most powerful, common class I see now is RoA Wardens.

huskandhunger

Cool down of 10 seconds on Streak ability pls. Thanks ZoS. 👌😊 @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

DaisyRay

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

You see more Wardens in comp groups but more Sorcs outside that, and comp groups still want Sorcs for Negate. Warden being a melee class is inherently more skill and risk even for sweatlords, who tend to play Sorc in BGs because it will consistently give them a better KDA while demanding less sweat.

Once upon a time, before CP, we had "soft caps" to limit extreme minmaxing of one stat, cutting gains to a fraction after a certain threshhold. It worked pretty well. They were deleted for the sake of the CP system promising infinite progression (lol). Single stat minmaxing is part of what ends up making MagSorc so overpowered, since most other stats become irrelevant, you build and play as if they don't even exist, literally a degenerate version of the game.

My point in mentioning the warden meta was that I do not see people complaining that we should nerf wardens or the mechanical set. Even though I've seen groups of five plus wipe to just one or two wardens. I know they are usually in larger comp groups, but they are also solo or just with another warden. I even have a warden that I tested it out on and was able to knock a few people down with my ult, I just prefer my sorc for my dps.

Sweatlords will always find a way to push the limit on everything, nerfs or not. I personally don't mind it because it's a pvp game, sometimes you die to players who better, more zergy, or more sweaty. It happens. I'm not about to rage quit like some of the other people on this forum (not you) because a warden killed me with a 30k ult. Maybe it's just because I haven't been playing as long as others, so I don't know what the game was like before all of this and the proc sets.

I will agree that stat minmaxing helps sorcs, but I don't see it as a problem. I see it as bringing sorcs on the same level as every other class like dks for example. Those who are op on sorc will also be op on warden, nb, dk, etc. While I admit I'm not that coordinated, I don't think I'm bad. So I don't think sorc will suddenly make a bad player become an op player. If another player is struggling to fight someone on a sorc, chances are they will struggle to fight that same person on any other class too.

Wallar333 wrote: »

Im not surprised at all that youre sorc main, cos only sorcs are defending sorc class here, surprisingly hah. Im sure you love it, cos sorc now is just OP **** that broke whole games PVP balance between classes, as well as it made close range and long range equal in DMG for them, which is just crazy ****** that should not exist in ANY MMORPG EVER. This is exactly the problem which is made by MOST game developers, listening to community too much, cos always the biggest addicted noobs wants to have as much advantage as possible, and such ppl are ALWAYS the loudest, so they get what they want sonner or later. And thanks to streak is sorc exactly every noobs pick.
Sorc is stronger as RANGE DD as NB as MELEE DD while also having streak which is prividing sorcs with best positioning in the game, and allowing them to just leave the combat if it goes bad, Buffing such class is like dropping a **** on the rest of the community.

Clearly you're passionate about this and it has triggered you. I'm sorry you had such an awful experience with sorcs and that they hurt your feelings, but read what I wrote above. It's not the class, it's the people using the class. You would have still died to those same people on any other class. Everything you've described I've seen people do on just about every other class in this game.

Especially the streak. While I agree that sorc is the only ones that has a stun (I think), there are other skills that work either like or similar to streak. I'll list a few below. I would be fine with the streak not having the stun because as I stated, I mostly use it to avoid being zerged down by like ten people. I've never used streak to duck a 1v1 and I never will.

Other Skills Similar to Streak:
1. Mist form
2. Fleet-Footed Gate
3. Shadow Image
4. Undo

There are probably more that I don't know about, but clearly there are options for other classes to get away and those are just the ones that moves your character. There are also skills like the warden wings and path of darkness from nbs that allow people to speed up to avoid death, damage, or just to be faster than their opponent. None of these are bad and those who are skilled at fighting will be able to utilize them better than most. Because it has everything to do with the player and not the class.

This is part of why I don't encourage a lot of new people to use build videos because a class and build will only work if that person using it has the skill or knowledge to use it. So those sorcs who killed you were just better than you and that's not a slight to you. They are for sure better than me too and I'm also a sorc. There is always someone better and you will always die at some point in pvp. I don't think it's so bad that I would completely quit pvp, but we are different people who aren't on the same page. So I'll just agree to disagree.

Afterip wrote: »

DaisyRay wrote: »

Sorc's upgrade made a weak player average and a strong player invincible.
Right now a lot of gankers in IC are Sorcs, even NB are not so common.

I never said I was weak, I said I wasn't the most coordinated. Meaning, I am better at ranged fighting than any other fighting. I also have a ranged nb ganker that I've used during mym and made stonks of telvar and ap. A sorc class will only be good if that player knows how to use it. Same as any other class. Also, if you want to take the heal off shield that's fine, but you should make our other heals better. I mainly use dark conversion for my heal and it really bothers me when someone can bash me and stop my heal. That shouldn't be a thing.

Joy_Division

Sorcs are definitely not OP on Vengeance