There are lots of reasons to step off the beaten path in ESO. Scattered throughout Tamriel, you'll find:

Points of interest with challenging enemies

Treasure chests with locks you can pick

Dark Anchors threatening to pull Tamriel into Coldharbour

Mundus Stones that grant special buffs

Skyshards you can collect to earn skill points

Lore books

Treasure maps that lead to hidden chests

Crafting resources

Public and instanced group dungeons
And more!

Also this is how they advertise overland.

I wonder where those are.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/newplayerguide/questing

You may quest to relax but questing's game design purpose is for leveling. It is the very first task you get and you're not able to access all the other systems until you level through questing.

It is a fact that if you cut my damage by 20%, I will kill 20% slower. So, to equal out to what I was already capable of doing, you'd need to give me an additional modifier. What someone else is capable of has nothing to do with my exp.

You have to ignore the basic principles of game design, the basic respawn pattern of enemies, basic math, and the explicit gameplay purpose of this system to come to the conclusion that normal mode players would somehow be victims of unfair game design if I received the same exp I have always received. I find the entire argument against it completely unreasonable, personally.

Maybe I'll go look for some newbie questers later and kill some mobs next to them faster they can. And then when they say it's unfair, I'll be like sorry I have a better weapon than you. Oh wait, they would not care even a single bit. Because that's completely normal.

SilverBride wrote: »

Overland is not meant to be a challenge. They tried that before One Tamriel and 2/3 of the game (Cadwell's Silver and Gold veteran zones) was not being played so they changed it and put the challenge in dungeons and trials and arenas, going on 9 years ago now.

If players want more challenge in Overland, sure as long is it does not affect those that don't. But it is not reasonable to expect to be rewarded for getting a feature that they asked for.

If a player requiests a custom recall they would like to see, should they get a reward because it takes a couple of seconds longer to get to where they are going now? It's the same concept.

I can only speak for myself, but I want more challenge, how much more is a whole different question. Just because many people want it to be more challenging, doesn't mean they want every boss to be a trial level fight. I know for a fact that no matter how they increase the difficulty, it will not be a challenge for me, but it has to be enough to create the illusion of fighting against a real threat. There is a WIDE gap between dying to a single skill and an actual challenge.

SilverBride wrote: »

What is the reason for wanting more difficult overland? I read over and over that it was for immersion. That does not seem to be the case now.

It is for immersion. That I don't want to break a game does not mean I don't want immersion. This post acts like I'm asking for a special mount or to get rich..

I just want the same gameplay experience everyone else has. I want the experience advertised by the game itself.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I just want the same gameplay experience everyone else has. I want the experience advertised by the game itself.

Asking for a difficulty mode for overland is the opposite of the same gameplay experience everyone else has. Having the same gameplay experience would be questing in the same Overland that has been around for the past almost 9 years that everyone else is experiencing.

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I just want the same gameplay experience everyone else has. I want the experience advertised by the game itself.

Asking for a difficulty mode for overland is the opposite of the same gameplay experience everyone else has. Having the same gameplay experience would be questing in the same Overland that has been around for the past almost 9 years that everyone else is experiencing.

No. Everyone isn't experiencing the same thing. They get the game that's advertised, I get a walking simulator.

An Elder Scrolls Adventure
Discover Tamriel's Second Era and enjoy all the epic quests, memorable characters, and dangerous enemies you expect in an Elder Scrolls game.

Action-Packed Combat
With its highly mobile, action-packed combat system, every fight is an exciting battle that keeps you on your toes.

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/discover

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

[Explain to me how getting the same exact EXP I get right now is wanting extra rewards?

Because there is no way to accurately measure that. Players all play differently. Some are fast and some are slow, and the same players doesn't even play the same exact way every time they quest Overland. So how would a "amount of experience gained per hour" even be determined to know what the normal is?

A modifier doesn't modify everyone. It modifies me. How is Me, myself, and I getting the exact same exp that I have literally always received an extra reward.

Sounds a lot like the "I want more immersion in overland content" actually just want more rewards for overland content, but without wanting to share those rewards with less-skilled or less-experie

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VoxAdActa wrote: »

Sounds a lot like the "I want more immersion in overland content" actually just want more rewards for overland content, but without wanting to share those rewards with less-skilled or less-experienced players.

Explain to me how getting the same exact EXP I get right now is wanting extra rewards? Explain to me how you're not able to get exp? Are you not able to quest?

Your reward is the enhance immersion you asked for. If you won't play the high-immersion game you asked for without also getting extra special XP/gear for it, it starts to sound an awful lot like "more immersion" or "more fun" is a Trojan horse for "more stuff."

You either want "more immersion" or you don't. If you have to be incentivized with extra goodies to play your own "more immersion" mode, then you clearly don't want "immersion" that badly.

VoxAdActa wrote: »

If you won't play the high-immersion game you asked for without also getting extra special XP/gear for it, it starts to sound an awful lot like "more immersion" or "more fun" is a Trojan horse for "more stuff."

Where did I ask for special gear?

I asked for the exact same experience that I currently already receive.

Explain to me how receiving the exact same exp as I get right now is extra.

VoxAdActa wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VoxAdActa wrote: »

If you won't play the high-immersion game you asked for without also getting extra special XP/gear for it, it starts to sound an awful lot like "more immersion" or "more fun" is a Trojan horse for "more stuff."

Where did I ask for special gear?

I asked for the exact same experience that I currently already receive.

Explain to me how receiving the exact same exp as I get right now is extra.

It's more than other people get per mob. End of.

And? It's the same total exp. How is the same total exp extra?

Once again, if you won't play your own game mode that you requested without getting more exp per exp-granting-unit, you're not beating the allegations that "more immersion" is just a smokescreen.

Oh yeah, I'm always looking for more ways to get that sweet, sweet exp. I go to guild auctions and blow all my crafting writs money on exp. I go to in-person conventions and walk up to Rich like "y'all got any more of that exp."

Personally, I think this accusations is projection. You don't want us to have an optional difficulty increase. So, any flimsy excuse to oppose it is sought. The opposition of exp is a trojan horse to reject the concept of a harder overland.

Nobody in this game fights over exp. I literally can barely even sell exp pots.

Takes two weeks to move one potion but I'll argue passionately for 3 years for some extra exp. Sure.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no way to determine if a player that chose difficilty is getting less, or more, or the same experience per time frame than they were on normal, because that number would change every time they played, and no one has those numbers.

There is. Killing an enemy is a function of your DPS. If I kill 50% slower, I will also earn half as much exp as I would have in that same play session. This is why the LOTRO slider has it and why most video games has it. This is a really, really basic feature.

How much experience does that come out to, taking into consideration that not all enemies give the exact same amount of experience? How many of this type were defeated, and that type and another type, and how much experience did each give? And how long did it take to defeat each type on normal, then on difficult? And were there any other players around that were also contributing to defeating the enemies?

There is no way to know but it doesn't matter anyway. Because immersion was aquired and that was the goal.

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no way to determine if a player that chose difficilty is getting less, or more, or the same experience per time frame than they were on normal, because that number would change every time they played, and no one has those numbers.

There is. Killing an enemy is a function of your DPS. If I kill 50% slower, I will also earn half as much exp as I would have in that same play session. This is why the LOTRO slider has it and why most video games has it. This is a really, really basic feature.

How much experience does that come out to, taking into consideration that not all enemies give the exact same amount of experience? How many of this type were defeated, and that type and another type, and how much experience did each give? And how long did it take to defeat each type on normal, then on difficult? And were there any other players around that were also contributing to defeating the enemies?

There is no way to know but it doesn't matter anyway. Because immersion was aquired and that was the goal.

Whatever that exp was, it will be less than what I would have had in the exact same play session without the buff. You can kill more enemies, you get more exp. You can kill less enemies, you get less exp. I don't know have to know the specific number the percentages will be applied to, to understand that 50% less enemies killed also means 50% less exp.

It does matter. Because the purpose of questing is to level characters, especially in the case of new players.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

. New players should not have the only thing they can do be broken because they wanted their quest to be fun and get them to level 50.

I thought you wanted a toggle/slider? What's this about making new players play in harder overland content? This isn't new, but I thought we had dispensed with the objection that "new players and players with accessibility issues will be locked out of basic overland content"? Are we bringing that back again?

Are we really saying this should be a global change for everyone again? Not just a "more immersive experience" for people who can one-shot overland mobs (which, to be clear, is not anywhere close to "everyone")?

VoxAdActa wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

. New players should not have the only thing they can do be broken because they wanted their quest to be fun and get them to level 50.

I thought you wanted a toggle/slider? What's this about making new players play in harder overland content? This isn't new, but I thought we had dispensed with the objection that "new players and players with accessibility issues will be locked out of basic overland content"? Are we bringing that back again?

Are we really saying this should be a global change for everyone again? Not just a "more immersive experience" for people who can one-shot overland mobs (which, to be clear, is not anywhere close to "everyone")?

Who says that only established players would want to use a slider?

There are new players citing the overland being too easy and boring right now as their reason for uninstalling on Steam.

Anyone who wants to use a slider could use it. Anyone who doesn't want to doesn't have to.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Who says that only established players would want to use a slider?

There are new players citing the overland being too easy and boring right now as their reason for uninstalling on Steam.

Why is this argument so circular?

It really feels like you just want it, and you want it exactly the way you want it, and no objection, no matter how valid, matters.

What's absolutely clear is that "immersion" isn't enough of an incentive by itself to get people to play in "immersion mode."

And I guess that doesn't mean anything because both "immersion" and "more exp per exp-granting unit" exist separately in their own contextless voids.