TaSheen wrote: »

I love seeing other players in an mmo. That's the whole reason I play this one. What I DO NOT want is overland ramped up to where I can't play it, which means for me, leaving the game.

A separate vet server would be much better from my pov. So we'll agree to disagree, though I do hope you who want a much harder overland get what you want.

I don't want difficulty forced on you either. But, I think a separate instance would be much more realistic than a separate server. I would personally prefer a slide, but I can admit that a separate instance is at least plausible. They already do it for dungeons.

A separate server in addition to heavy development costs also has heavy player costs. It would mean that vet players would have to abandon all of their friends, family and guilds too. That's a heavy player cost.

ETA
I just don't understand this desire that we punished for wanting a more immersive story experience. Legendary mode doesn't ruin Skyrim for people on normal. Vet dungeons doesn't ruin normal dungeons. So many examples out of there of variable difficulties in video games not causing problems for anyone. This is not a zero sum problem. Both groups of players can have a fun experience.

Dahveed wrote: »

I find it funny that the guy who told us "we should take a break from this thread" is responsible for about 40% of literally all posts, failing to understand even the most basic arguments. (Almost intentionally, one might think...)

I'm not a guy and I still think nothing different is going to be considered until they have tested the experiment they have in mind. But I'm not going to not counter what I see as bad ideas in the meantime.

If immersion is the reason for wanting more difficulty, then why should players be awarded with increased experience and rewards, too, for getting exactly what they asked for? That has nothing to do with immersion.

SilverBride wrote: »

If immersion is the reason for wanting more difficulty, then why should players be awarded with increased experience and rewards, too, for getting exactly what they asked for? That has nothing to do with immersion.

So that the basic functionality of the system is not broken.

The gameplay function for questing is to level up. Giving people what they asked for but breaking the functionality is like a monkey paw.

Apply that logic to any other system and it falls apart

You can now hide any gear piece, but your outfit is no longer customizable.

You no longer have to queue for dlc dungeons when selecting a random dungeon, but you no longer get gear or experience points.

You can now enjoy the story in overland, but you can't use quests to level a new character

ETA

If they decide to break the function, I would expect the typical vet rewards like exclusive cosmetics. That's not my ideal because quests are one and done. But there should be something. Nobody is going to want to be punished for using it.

Why can't anyone on difficulty use quests to level a new character? It may take a little bit longer but is still very possible. And it's what was asked for.

A veteran megaserver would solve all these disagreements. I am surprised there isn't more support for something that would work for everyone.

Unless maybe players don't want difficulty all the time and would only use it occasionally, which makes me wonder if anything is really needed at all then.

SilverBride wrote: »

Why can't anyone on difficulty use quests to level a new character? It may take a little bit longer but is still very possible. And it's what was asked for.

If friend 1 levels faster than friend 2 thats pretty crappy.
Also if the argument is that vet should not give higher rewards because players feel forced to play vet to not "missout" then that also means if rewards on normal are higher players feel forced to play normal to not "missout".
Also. Why is it so importent to you ? The amount of gold and exp you gte from questing is so neglectable compared to many other activities.

SilverBride wrote: »

A veteran megaserver would solve all these disagreements. I am surprised there isn't more support for something that would work for everyone.

Unless maybe players don't want difficulty all the time and would only use it occasionally, which makes me wonder if anything is really needed at all then.

Its an MMO its not only about what I want but also about what guildmates and friends want. Having to play on server 1 just to do quests and on server 2 for housing and roleplay seems unnecessarily inconvenient.

Veteran Players would still be at an exp disadvantage because Normal mode players can power level and Vet players couldn't.

This means that normal mode players could go into a public dungeon, pull 20 mobs, and kill them in a few seconds. And get far more exp than got through 3 mobs in that same timeframe.

But if the normal mode player decided to only kill 3 mobs and then spend the rest of the time that a vet one is spending killing things, afk, then they'd get less exp.

But that is fair because they are choosing to play less often and kill less things.

I only spent half an hour killing stuff while the vet player spent an hour, and now they got more exp than me! Unfair.

Sorry. Don't agree

Any player looking to power level would not count on overland enemies and quests to do so. They generally run arenas or other such content to gain fast levels.

SilverBride wrote: »

Any player looking to power level would not count on overland enemies and quests to do so. They generally run arenas or other such content to gain fast levels.

Skyreach, public dungeons, and Spellscar remain popular spots for power leveling and are overland content.

SilverBride wrote: »

Players using those places to power level aren't going to ask for more difficult enemies to fight knowing that they will take longer. They would not be using a slider or a debuff or anything else that would slow the process down.

Players asking for difficulty for immersion in the story is the opposite of power leveling.

No. They wouldn't use a slider to power level in a public dungeon. Because being a normal player would still have the advantage for exp gain over vet mode. Because exp gain in this game isn't about the number of mobs in a zone. They respawn. There is no finite amount of mobs.

It is about the rate of killing. And normal mode players would be superior to hard mode ones still.

Notably, nobody complains that this is unfair. The only thing considered unfair in this thread is if vet players got a small boost to bring them closer to equality. Because two people playing for an hour and getting the same exp is deemed unfair and asking for extra.

VoxAdActa wrote: »

If ZOS could be trusted to manage the difficulty spike between normal and vet overland, I might be (slightly) more amenable to the idea.

But ZOS has shown they're very not-great at managing difficulty spikes. The curve for a newbie going into their first 4-man dungeon is steep; DLC dungeons are another big jump in difficulty; and going from normal dungeons to vet dungeons is less of a "curve" and more of a "sheer cliff." Basically, we go directly from content that can be soloed by a competent DPS who doesn't even have to do a full, cohesive rotation at any point to content that requires roles, tight proficiency with character mechanics, studying boss patterns beforehand, and remembering to use all of their buttons. There's no "learning" phase in this game.

I suspect a "vet overland" would be a similar difficulty cliff, locking all but the top players out of these vague "better rewards."

That would indeed be the biggest downside of a single Veteran instance, in my opinion. It's likely that some players would find that difficulty too hard, while it would still be too easy for others.

While I admit that a slider (or a similar mechanic) has some downsides as well, it could potentially have a wide range of difficulties to choose from. The aforementioned Lord of the Rings Online has 9 additional difficulty levels to choose from, for example, with some different rewards as well.

Edit: Typo.

The exp is the box. It's simply a tool to ensure questing remains functional for all players. It's funny how even goofy stuff in MS Paint as art can help relieve even minor annoyance. The devs have already talked before about how you got incentivize harder content and cited it as a reason why they hadn't made a harder overland yet. It will be interesting to see how they choose to handle the "incentive problem," as I have a feeling that this feature will get treated the same as every single other feature in this game and all other games.

ETA

Uh, it is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a ton of work, and then as lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you're not going to get anything out of it why do it, you know? The satisfaction is there sure, but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time.So like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3 of the game was never played by players, so we changed it.”

SilverBride wrote: »

When asking for major changes these types of conflicts are going to come up, and players are going to give their feedback, for or against.

I personally find asking to be rewarded and given more experience for killing the same enemies and doing the same quests because more difficult fights take longer, to be unreasonable and unfair. Especially since longer fights are what is being asked for.

And no matter how long it takes to level, giving increased experience means that those players will get way more experience per zone than those on normal. How is that fair?

You can't be serious...asking for more reward for completing harder task is unreasonable? Getting rewards equivalent to the amount of work put into the task is literally how everything in the world works or else no one would do it.

Also, if you only want the easy mode where you 1 hit everything, why do you so badly need the better gear? I thought you just play for the fun of killing everything in 1 hit? What's the purpose of getting better gear of everything you touch dies instantly anyway?

I don't understand why players who want easy mode are so against players getting rewarded for their time and work. Why does it hurt you so much? You're afraid you'll miss out on rewards? I don't complain I dont get the card game rewards without playing the card game, or fishing rewards without fishing. If it's not my thing I simply don't do it and don't go in forums complain that I'm forced to do it to have literally everything in the game.

You folks have extremely selfish approach to be honest. If you don't want to do the harder content just don't do it. It doesn't stop you from doing what you want to do, and you'll still get the rewards you always did. This is getting ridiculous.

I still haven't heard a single good argument of why a veteran overland instance shouldn't give better rewards. That's the way the game has handled every other situation with different difficulty levels, why should overland be different?

If there is a separate instance for veteran overland, it should give better rewards. If there is going to be a single instance like right now that is just made harder I don't really see a need for it to give better rewards. Why? Because when there is a choice, there has to be an incentive, not for the experienced veteran player but for the newer player. Aaaand because that's how the game handles every other situation regarding difficulty. If the difficulty was the same for everyone there wouldn't have to be any added incentive.

SilverBride wrote: »

As far as incentivizing, increased overland difficulty wasn't something that ZoS was wanting to implement and was looking for a way to incentive it so players would participate in it. This was requested by players that stated their incentive as immersion.

You make it sound like ZoS is doing this against their will, trust me they are not. They are definitely not known for making changes because there is community backlash.

A customized action does not have a gameplay function.

Questing is for leveling. Asking for questing to be made better without breaking its core functionality is not unreasonable.