spartaxoxo wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I've never had much use for magic in any of TES games. Skyrim was my favorite for many reasons, but that was really the main one.

In ESO, I really don't use magic much at all. My characters I play the most are wardens, with generally weapon skills rather than spells.

I don't like most of the flashy stuff.... though I do have my moments....

I'm the opposite. I've always loved fantasy games more than other genres specifically because of magic. Even in more grounded fps games, I tend to enjoy the explosives and lasers more than straightforward guns. IRL, my favorite summer holiday is the Fourth of July because of all the fireworks!

I play a mage in every fantasy game that I play. I just really enjoy magic in games. I enjoy dazzling sites. I enjoy razzle dazzle as a general rule.

Hey, that's why we have chocolate and vanilla ice cream! And a bajillion other flavors....

[Fantasy games to me are where I get to be someone I'm not - but while I have magic users, they're not what I play mostly. I'm much more into the sword-wielding amazon thing....]

I'm usually in favor of giving players more choice. Besides, I doubt we'll be seeing hordes of naturists rampaging through our cities if all gear slots become hideable.

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Since half the players these days look like neon lightbulbs due to skins and flashy cosmetics, the ship has sailed for me on using immersion as an argument over being able to take off your shirt.

I do not find that immersion breaking at all. I miss how magical things felt in TES games released prior to Skyrim, and feel that these items added that vibe back in. I felt like Skyrim had the least magical vibe of all the TES games that I played. And I was dismayed when I want to say it was Todd Howard said something like if magic disappeared from Tamriel tomorrow, most people wouldn't notice. It felt like they're trying to copying more realistic feeling fantasy and demystify Tamriel and I was not here for it.

I do admit some of the stuff they released is too far in this direction like that bizarre horse with all the arms. But, I overall enjoy the flashy stuff because it makes Tamriel feel magical.

There is magic and fantasy, and then there is garish/glow-ridden designs that are intended to be eye-catching in hopes people spend more money on cosmetics. I doubt at this point a lot of the cosmetics really fit in any cohesive aesthetic - and even the existence of magic only goes so far for me personally. At this point we have veered more to the absurd.

At least they haven't added in modern sweatpants and things like other MMOs though, so at least there is that.

I also disagree that people whose skin turns into glowing scales and eyes that radiate light is more immersive than a guy who just didn't want to wear gloves or a belt.

One person's "glow ridden" is another's "spectacular," after all. And yes, for me, something being Daedric or magical is more immersive than beach babes. To each their own.

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Since half the players these days look like neon lightbulbs due to skins and flashy cosmetics, the ship has sailed for me on using immersion as an argument over being able to take off your shirt.

I do not find that immersion breaking at all. I miss how magical things felt in TES games released prior to Skyrim, and feel that these items added that vibe back in. I felt like Skyrim had the least magical vibe of all the TES games that I played. And I was dismayed when I want to say it was Todd Howard said something like if magic disappeared from Tamriel tomorrow, most people wouldn't notice. It felt like they're trying to copying more realistic feeling fantasy and demystify Tamriel and I was not here for it.

I do admit some of the stuff they released is too far in this direction like that bizarre horse with all the arms. But, I overall enjoy the flashy stuff because it makes Tamriel feel magical.

There is magic and fantasy, and then there is garish/glow-ridden designs that are intended to be eye-catching in hopes people spend more money on cosmetics. I doubt at this point a lot of the cosmetics really fit in any cohesive aesthetic - and even the existence of magic only goes so far for me personally. At this point we have veered more to the absurd.

At least they haven't added in modern sweatpants and things like other MMOs though, so at least there is that.

I also disagree that people whose skin turns into glowing scales and eyes that radiate light is more immersive than a guy who just didn't want to wear gloves or a belt.

One person's "glow ridden" is another's "spectacular," after all. And yes, for me, something being Daedric or magical is more immersive than beach babes. To each their own.

So that's immersive and just not wanting a belt to show isn't? I'm just very confused by your thought process.

I said that belts were fine. It's specifically the pants and chest that I object. The pants and chests are much bigger contributions to the overall aesthetic than the minor accessories.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

Since half the players these days look like neon lightbulbs due to skins and flashy cosmetics, the ship has sailed for me on using immersion as an argument over being able to take off your shirt.

I do not find that immersion breaking at all. I miss how magical things felt in TES games released prior to Skyrim, and feel that these items added that vibe back in. I felt like Skyrim had the least magical vibe of all the TES games that I played. And I was dismayed when I want to say it was Todd Howard said something like if magic disappeared from Tamriel tomorrow, most people wouldn't notice. It felt like they're trying to copying more realistic feeling fantasy and demystify Tamriel and I was not here for it.

I do admit some of the stuff they released is too far in this direction like that bizarre horse with all the arms. But, I overall enjoy the flashy stuff because it makes Tamriel feel magical.

There is magic and fantasy, and then there is garish/glow-ridden designs that are intended to be eye-catching in hopes people spend more money on cosmetics. I doubt at this point a lot of the cosmetics really fit in any cohesive aesthetic - and even the existence of magic only goes so far for me personally. At this point we have veered more to the absurd.

At least they haven't added in modern sweatpants and things like other MMOs though, so at least there is that.

I also disagree that people whose skin turns into glowing scales and eyes that radiate light is more immersive than a guy who just didn't want to wear gloves or a belt.

One person's "glow ridden" is another's "spectacular," after all. And yes, for me, something being Daedric or magical is more immersive than beach babes. To each their own.

So that's immersive and just not wanting a belt to show isn't? I'm just very confused by your thought process.

I said that belts were fine. It's specifically the pants and chest that I object. The pants and chests are much bigger contributions to the overall aesthetic than the minor accessories.

This is a ridiculous argument considering what is currently available in the game in terms of Lewdity and other ridiculous “aesthetics”. And the list of those outfit pieces appears to be growing (also I’m literally wearing a daedric metal bra on my character, the crownstore item that’s bare chest for male, iron/leather bikini top for females from one of the past crates, Scorianite Gladiator I believe was what it is called). But for pants there’s no options that fill that role of the underwear for female characters other then removing pant items and doing it that way like the ERP’ers (no judgement here but that’s literally what they do). There are numerous skimpy skirts though not many armored variations other than deadlands gladiator and maybe one or two others I think. Oh yeah And by the way, there are and will be players running around with no gear on (E)RP’ing. So… With all the ridiculous items you can wear that look ridiculous (subjective opinion by the way), and these are items developers added which were not widely asked for, was of their own volition, ontop of the players ability to delayer to the underwear for whatever purposes, these aesthetic arguments become moot unless you’re referring specifically to what you would make your playable character look like. Then sure yeah, you do you, as it should be!

I think the wrong question is being asked.

I think we should be asking why it has not happened. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom said they would like to add this type of thing in the future. That was six and a half years ago. How much more future do we need to go for this or is it something they are no longer interested in adding?

That comment is linked below. I have tagged Jessica here in case she would like to elaborate. I will also tag @ZOS_Kevin since he is in a similar role now.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5410489/#Comment_5410489

I love seeing the diversity in outfits. I feel if everything could be hidden, we'd just have 50% of the player base running around naked. At least now they have to put a little thought into their provocative look.

We were blessed with the ability to hide helmets and shoulders, which were both godsends thanks to their spectacular ugliness. Depending on your character's physique, you can usually find a belt that is entirely invisible. Gloambound weapon style is nice if you want (for example) to have weapon/shield hidden while stowed. It creates a very clean look, without disarming your character.

On the other hand...tassets...

There are so many really neat looking chest armors that are utterly destroyed by laughably ridiculous tassets, that I'm saddened for the artists that were forced to tack that garbage onto their otherwise beautiful creations. Unfortunately they're part of the chest armor, so you can't simply turn them off. At best there'd have to be a motif variant that had transparent texture there. We've seen bugs like that so we know it's possible, but someone still has to copy-edit-add essentially new styles.

RandomSilliness wrote: »

I love seeing the diversity in outfits. I feel if everything could be hidden, we'd just have 50% of the player base running around naked. At least now they have to put a little thought into their provocative look.

We were blessed with the ability to hide helmets and shoulders, which were both godsends thanks to their spectacular ugliness. Depending on your character's physique, you can usually find a belt that is entirely invisible. Gloambound weapon style is nice if you want (for example) to have weapon/shield hidden while stowed. It creates a very clean look, without disarming your character.

On the other hand...tassets...

There are so many really neat looking chest armors that are utterly destroyed by laughably ridiculous tassets, that I'm saddened for the artists that were forced to tack that garbage onto their otherwise beautiful creations. Unfortunately they're part of the chest armor, so you can't simply turn them off. At best there'd have to be a motif variant that had transparent texture there. We've seen bugs like that so we know it's possible, but someone still has to copy-edit-add essentially new styles.

Final Fantasy 14 has had this option for years now. I never see anyone running around naked. Maybe once in a great while, but there are thousands upon thousands of players and I pretty much never see this.

I think the fear that allowing people to hide armors would result in a nudist game is a fear that isn't really worth worrying about. Some may do it for a few days since the option here would be new and novel, but I think in the grand scheme of things this is a non-issue.

allochthons wrote: »

Having said yes, hiding pants is a bad idea.
I have been harassed by players not wearing pants. Yes, this sounds ridiculous, but true. I was in an IC sewer base, and this person kept on standing in the same space as I was. I moved, they moved into the same space. I went to a place there was no logical reason to stand, they moved to the same space. That's when I noticed they didn't have pants equipped.

This was extremely creepy. Exposure is Exposure, even when virtual.
I blocked and reported them (with video), but if you haven't been the victim of harassment, it's hard to express how upsetting this can be.

We still need to get rid of (or hide) hip flaps, tassels, etc.

I’m so sorry but I cannot help but laugh at this experience of yours it is reminding me of the SpongeBob Episode “I’m not wearing pants” 😂

If you’re not being satirical, I stand with you in your trauma.

No. For purely selfish reasons. I have a working naked tank. Not even s&b. Of course I want to show off that I can tank this content without a single piece of gear. If we can hide all the armour pieces, it takes away from flexing my naked tank.

Also, Arcanist tanking is broken. So many buffs, so many debuffs, gear is just a bonus.

allochthons wrote: »

Having said yes, hiding pants is a bad idea.
I have been harassed by players not wearing pants. Yes, this sounds ridiculous, but true. I was in an IC sewer base, and this person kept on standing in the same space as I was. I moved, they moved into the same space. I went to a place there was no logical reason to stand, they moved to the same space. That's when I noticed they didn't have pants equipped.

This was extremely creepy. Exposure is Exposure, even when virtual.
I blocked and reported them (with video), but if you haven't been the victim of harassment, it's hard to express how upsetting this can be.

We still need to get rid of (or hide) hip flaps, tassels, etc.

While I'm sorry about this experience - you already said the odd person looking to harass others by removing pants can already do so in game now. Keeping an option form all players because of the actions of a small few who can already just remove their pants doesn't seem like a great solution.

Fortunately none of the male characters in ESO have been blessed with any endowment whatsoever so there is not much to fear lol.

I am well aware that the full range of hide options would result in people running around visibly naked.. But I really don't care. So many male characters wish to have a bare chest motif with minimal covering, and the best motif options for it are insanely expensive due to the popularity of that style. We have full body skins, so many interesting reasons to show off skin.. Those motifs that show skin are made even more popular..

Full Visual customization includes the ability to hide any visuals. Please give us full visual customization ZOS!

You forgot hide all.

Amottica wrote: »

celner4_ESO wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I think the wrong question is being asked.

I think we should be asking why it has not happened. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom said they would like to add this type of thing in the future. That was six and a half years ago. How much more future do we need to go for this or is it something they are no longer interested in adding?

That comment is linked below. I have tagged Jessica here in case she would like to elaborate. I will also tag @ZOS_Kevin since he is in a similar role now.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5410489/#Comment_5410489

Had no idea this a thing thank you!

YW.

I hoped we would have seen a response to this since I tagged Jessica, and a comment from her in these forums is an official statement from Zenimax.

Does it usually take a while for a response now days?

Soarora wrote: »

I dunno about hide pants and chest (topless motifs are expensive, so selfish reason, but also I'd rather not see fully armored naked people all over the place) but the others, especially belts, should probably be a thing.

Your argument for topless chest motifs is actually a great argument. But that’s assuming the motifs would lose value as a result of the hide addition. Personally I don’t think that would be the case as they’re still all each their own unique appearances for whatever the aesthetic it is that you’re looking for. Interesting thought though and I can understand that perspective. It indeed would be sad if it ended up negatively affecting topless chest motif prices.