What is a fank tank and when is it a problem?

coop500 · January 17

So, I've seen the subject of fank tanks coming up in the forums and guild chat more and more. But something I noticed too is a lot of people have differing opinions about what is a fake tank, and when it's a problem.

For the record, this is strictly speaking about RANDOM NORMAL DUNGEONS. Nothing more, nothing less.

I want to be considerate of other players, but I admit with how transmutes are dulled out, it can be rough and sometimes I rather not have a dedicated tank or healer build on every single character I want to run dungeons with. So, for characters built for soloing content, or generally are 'sturdy DPS' with decent survivability, I will queue on them as a tank with a taunt slotted.

I thought this was okay, as long as I held boss still, and didn't die/run around the arena/put too much pressure on the healer, or charge off and ditch people when fighting previous packs of enemies (I hate this behavior so much). I will also try to bring adds together in a burnable pile, the best I can, depending on who I'm playing on. I often end up dealing half the group's damage to boot, though I don't mind since I spent a lot of mats on my gear and RNDs are for everyone, including new and casual players.

But lately, from what I read, this is still frowned upon by some, and I was interested in having a dedicated discussion about what IS a fake tank and when is it a problem? Hence, the poll!

Apologies if some of the options seem heavily worded. They aren't meant to throw shade at different opinions, but is just the best way I could word them on the fly at 8AM.

MJallday · January 17

your question is flawed because "normal" dungeons dont require a tank.

OsUfi · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

If you taunt and don't die, you're not fake. Bonus points for a good pull like Soul Burst or a set to pile up adds.

The problem is, the same as fake healers, most fakes I get neither taunt or heal but fall over dead when a Skeever looks at them funny, thereby draging out even normal mode dungeons. Dungeons are not faster when you're carrying some dumbo that couldn't out DPS a wet paper bag.

Jordan_Black · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

It's the whole taunt and don't die thing. If you only have the don't die part, even with high enough dps to solo the dungeon, you're still making the other dps and healers run around and kite the boss, which I feel is a bit rude.

Soarora · January 17

They're fake unless ice staff/sword and shield but if they do the base job of holding boss still and not dying, I don't care.

You ask what is a fake tank and when is it a problem but I have different answers to both questions. A fake tank is someone who is not spec’d as a tank, they do not have support skills/sets/high amount of health. A DPS with a taunt is not a tank, its a DPS with a taunt. However, it’s not a problem to fake tank in random normal if you have a taunt and don’t die.

LunaFlora · January 17

Other/mixed (feel free to comment!)

a fake Tank is generally a Damage Dealer who queued as Tank to get into a Dungeon faster.
Generally they don't have a Tank build, don't use Taunts, nor do they care about their group.

technically a Healer could also queue as a Tank and be a fake Tank, but if that ever happens it's probably an accident instead of on purpose.

and if you don't die in a normal dungeon without a Tank build, but still Taunt bosses. (and aren't rushing far far ahead of the group skipping enemies and leaving the group to deal with it)
That's not really a fake Tank as they're still tanking. Beginner Tanks can't do much else besides Taunt and stay with the group either.

Veinblood1965 · January 17

If they taunt and die I'm fine, it's when they don't taunt then they are either fake OR very new at it. Hey I got accused of being a fake healer once on my new heals toon on my first run so it does happen.

xylena_lazarow · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

I've had players rage at me in group chat for killing trash mobs while also holding taunt on the boss and priority adds. Must have been a blow to the ego to realize they're doing so little damage? That was years ago and the last straw for me with trying to tank pugs. Less trouble to wait in the DD queue or wait for friends to be around.

magnusthorek · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

I'd say “If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, they may not be fake”.

If it's a random normal — which I don't do any more, only in very rare circumstances (i.e. freshly bought DLC pack) — as long as the “tank” have a taunt skill and doesn't die, he can play while dancing Macarena I don't give a sheet.

Problem is, especially on my timezone, I'm most always thrown along CP 500 people. I don't mind helping them, I'm a very nice person nowadays, but if the tank can't tank and/or healer can't heal and 3 of the 4 players run around like headless chicken, I can't carry them all. So, I first propose a kick, twice. If the group denies both times, I *may* announce publicly in group chat (depends on how bad the situation is) and if everything fails I wish them luck, a wonderful week/end and leave, even if I have to pay the queue time.

Desiato · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

MJallday wrote: »

your question is flawed because "normal" dungeons dont require a tank.

DLC normals benefit greatly from proper positioning in pugs.

It's frustrating when the person choosing the tank role can't be bothered to slot a taunt and drags the boss all over the room.

In cases where the group is composed of 4 strong dps, it's less important but still beneficial and will result in a faster run.

coop500 · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

Soarora wrote: »

You ask what is a fake tank and when is it a problem but I have different answers to both questions. A fake tank is someone who is not spec’d as a tank, they do not have support skills/sets/high amount of health. A DPS with a taunt is not a tank, its a DPS with a taunt. However, it’s not a problem to fake tank in random normal if you have a taunt and don’t die.

That's why the poll option you chose existed, cause I think they very well can be different questions with different answers even if they are similar.

Taril · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

As someone who's mained Tanks in MMO's over 20+ years...

A tank is someone who can get the job done. It doesn't matter if they're fully end-game raid built where they have 0 damage and a billion health, or if they're just a DPS that has a Taunt.

If they are able to complete the content in question, while performing Tank duties (I.e. Tanking enemies not the floor) then they are a tank.

For Normal dungeons, having a DD build and slotting in a Taunt (And actually using it consistently) is generally enough to be effective. Healer can still heal, boss is wailing on a single person, DD's are able to focus entirely on damage/mechanics.

For Normal dungeons, a full Tank build is not necessary. You don't need 40k+ health, you don't need perma-Block at max mitigation, you don't need to maintain Resolve/Protection/Breach/Vulnerability/Maim on everything.

All you really need, is to taunt bosses and not get flattened by them.

Aurielle · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

In normals, a tank is someone who can taunt the boss, ideally group adds, and survive. I don’t care one iota if they have a sword and shield or ice staff. I don’t care one iota if they’re also dealing damage in a full glass cannon spec while taunting — that is, in fact, preferred for normals where I’m concerned, especially non-DLC dungeons. I roll my eyes when a 40k health tank with dual S&B strolls into nFG1, because it’s completely unnecessary.

Vet DLC dungeons? I expect the tank to be better equipped to deal with health and mitigation checks. A hybrid damage dealer / tank with a little more health and mitigation than the typical vet dungeon DD can usually manage base game vet dungeons just fine.

Freelancer_ESO · January 17

Pretend an average skilled ESO player copied your build.

Would you be happy with them as a tank in your run?

You can have a decent tanking build for normal dungeons without needing to use one hand and shield/ice staff as scribing opens up a bunch of possibilities.

Sarannah · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

Taril wrote: »

As someone who's mained Tanks in MMO's over 20+ years...

A tank is someone who can get the job done. It doesn't matter if they're fully end-game raid built where they have 0 damage and a billion health, or if they're just a DPS that has a Taunt.

If they are able to complete the content in question, while performing Tank duties (I.e. Tanking enemies not the floor) then they are a tank.

For Normal dungeons, having a DD build and slotting in a Taunt (And actually using it consistently) is generally enough to be effective. Healer can still heal, boss is wailing on a single person, DD's are able to focus entirely on damage/mechanics.

For Normal dungeons, a full Tank build is not necessary. You don't need 40k+ health, you don't need perma-Block at max mitigation, you don't need to maintain Resolve/Protection/Breach/Vulnerability/Maim on everything.

All you really need, is to taunt bosses and not get flattened by them.

This is kind of my stance as well, also having 'real' tanked for over 20+ years in MMO's. And I am someone who is 100% against fake tanks, as fake tanks usually do terrible dps(even though their dps meters show they are doing 100% of the damage because other players are catching up to them still), are the cause of double or triple queue's for other players(especially when getting a DLC dungeon and they leave instantly), are dragging out the runs, make players lose out on gear, and make players lose out on the quest. Fake tanks(and healers) are incredibly harmful for keeping a healthy playerbase and the game's longevity/health.

If someone actually does the tank role they are signing up for, taunting the bosses and not dying, they are not fake in my opinion. If they fake role a tank and die every hit they take and/or do not even attempt to taunt, they are fake.

Fake tanks (and healers) massively slow down the dungeon runs in almost all cases. So if you are going to 'fake' tank, atleast taunt and grab some survivability gear before doing so. If you are going to 'fake' heal, atleast put on one or two heals and actually heal someone when needed.

Necrotech_Master · January 17

They're fake unless ice staff/sword and shield but if they do the base job of holding boss still and not dying, I don't care.

Soarora wrote: »

You ask what is a fake tank and when is it a problem but I have different answers to both questions. A fake tank is someone who is not spec’d as a tank, they do not have support skills/sets/high amount of health. A DPS with a taunt is not a tank, its a DPS with a taunt. However, it’s not a problem to fake tank in random normal if you have a taunt and don’t die.

this is kind of how i feel about it

if they arent spec for tanking they arent a real tank, but they can be a "good" fake tank (at least equipping a taunt and doing the job of a tank by not dying and holding aggro) or a "bad" fake tank (no taunt, dying, ignoring the group)

the "bad" fake tank is the ones people normally take issue with

Desiato · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I've had players rage at me in group chat for killing trash mobs while also holding taunt on the boss and priority adds. Must have been a blow to the ego to realize they're doing so little damage? That was years ago and the last straw for me with trying to tank pugs. Less trouble to wait in the DD queue or wait for friends to be around.

I have encountered this too, but it is rare. Most players seem happy to have a quick, smooth run.

magnusthorek wrote: »

I'd say “If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then may not be fake”.
<snip>
Problem is, especially on my timezone, I'm most always thrown along CP 500 people. I don't mind helping them, I'm a very nice person nowadays, but if the tank can't tank and/or healer can't heal and 3 of the 4 players run around like headless chicken, I can't carry them all.

To me, a vet pug tank needs to be prepared to tank with 3 dps. Even if they have a healer, there's a pretty good chance they still won't have orbs and other synergies. I find the maelstrom 1h/s to be useful in vet dungeon pugs to assist with sustain when there's no healer or synergies.

When I tank vet randoms, I generally prefer 3 dps. Same with group arenas. IMO, every dungeon healer should have a dps bar, regardless if it's vet or normal.

I can appreciate your pain. No one understands the concept of a fake dps better than a random vet tank! There have been times I have done 50% of the damage with a full trial build necro tank. With that said, it's great practice to prog the challenging vet dungeons with a bad group and I suggest everyone learning tanking in ESO spend a lot of time running random vets.

With that said, I've tanked base game vets with a dps build and it's usually np with some adjustments.

JaxontheUnfortunate · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

Depends on my mood I will tank either on a proper build, a selfish build or a PvP build with a taunt.

coop500 · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

Desiato wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I've had players rage at me in group chat for killing trash mobs while also holding taunt on the boss and priority adds. Must have been a blow to the ego to realize they're doing so little damage? That was years ago and the last straw for me with trying to tank pugs. Less trouble to wait in the DD queue or wait for friends to be around.

I have encountered this too, but it is rare. Most players seem happy to have a quick, smooth run.

magnusthorek wrote: »

I'd say “If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then may not be fake”.
<snip>
Problem is, especially on my timezone, I'm most always thrown along CP 500 people. I don't mind helping them, I'm a very nice person nowadays, but if the tank can't tank and/or healer can't heal and 3 of the 4 players run around like headless chicken, I can't carry them all.

To me, a vet pug tank needs to be prepared to tank with 3 dps. Even if they have a healer, there's a pretty good chance they still won't have orbs and other synergies. I find the asylum 1h to be useful in vet dungeon pugs to assist with sustain when there's no healer or synergies.

When I tank vet randoms, I generally prefer 3 dps. Same with group arenas. IMO, every dungeon healer should have a dps bar, regardless if it's vet or normal.

I can appreciate your pain. No one understands the concept of a fake dps better than a random vet tank! There have been times I have done 50% of the damage with a full trial build necro tank. With that said, it's great practice to prog the challenging vet dungeons with a bad group and I suggest everyone learning tanking in ESO spend a lot of time running random vets.

Its true, I've defo been there in vets and it is.... Interesting lol. But yeah the best thing to learn when doing randoms is expect nothing beyond randomness

Destai · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

I generally define a tank as someone who can hold aggro. So that means, they can be a DPS with just one taunt skill, and be okay. So long as they're not getting killed left and right. I think base game is the best place for that kind of tanking. Once you get into DLC dungeons, even on normal, a proper kit is better.

Fake tanking is a problem when content can't be completed. If fights are messy, mechanics are being ignored, and groups are wiping - that sort of thing. I can put up with fake tanks in a base game dungeon, but outside of that, I prefer a tank. And if the group dies on a boss, I just leave.

Melivar · January 17

Other/mixed (feel free to comment!)

Normal with the exception of a couple of DLC dungeons don't require a tank or healer in most cases. If you feel like they do perhaps you need to peek in the mirror or just run with a more organized group format outside of randoms as your gonna get what you get.

Vet Dungeons even base game should have the proper roles when using random group finder, this includes doing your share of the DPS as a DPS. Many a time early on or when on a newer character that I have/will bow out if I feel like I am holding the group back. There is no shame in trying if your not sure.

You can get away with an actual healer or tank and 3 DPS for base game dungeons including hard modes and alot of the early DLC's if not doing hard mode.

spartaxoxo · January 17

They're fake unless ice staff/sword and shield but if they do the base job of holding boss still and not dying, I don't care.

I just slot a taunt on my DPS and queue tank sometimes when running dungeons. I don't consider myself a real tank. The reason is that I am intentionally not fulfilling all of the things a real one brings to the table. I am not new or bad. My setup is purposefully set to DPS. I only slot a taunt because I consider it rude not to do so. So, out of respect for the amount of effort real tanks bring to a dungeon (much more than inner fire), I don't act like I'm being a real tank. I'm a DPS with a taunt.

spartaxoxo · January 17

They're fake unless ice staff/sword and shield but if they do the base job of holding boss still and not dying, I don't care.

Melivar wrote: »

Normal with the exception of a couple of DLC dungeons don't require a tank or healer in most cases. If you feel like they do perhaps you need to peek in the mirror or just run with a more organized group format outside of randoms as your gonna get what you get.

Vet Dungeons even base game should have the proper roles when using random group finder, this includes doing your share of the DPS as a DPS. Many a time early on or when on a newer character that I have/will bow out if I feel like I am holding the group back. There is no shame in trying if your not sure.

You can get away with an actual healer or tank and 3 DPS for base game dungeons including hard modes and alot of the early DLC's if not doing hard mode.

The DPS wait a long time in the queue just so they don't have to aggro. It's not about whether or not they're capable. They signed up for the role that doesn't take it and waited. I don't feel it is right, even on normal, to cut them in line and make them take the aggro you signed up to take, IMO. For me, personally, I feel it's not respectful so I always slot a taunt.

Adremal · January 17

If they taunt, hold boss and don't die, then they're not fake.

If it does the job, it's good enough for me.
If it does a good job while also providing more DPS and/or buffs/debuff, then it's even better - and this holds true for both tanks and healers (because honestly, what would a HM-specced healer do in normal runs? Twiddle their thumbs?).
But if it doesn't do its job and dies to a pack of mobs while rushing ahead, the only possible answer is derision followed by a kick.

moo_2021 · January 18

I don't care and just wanna see the results

I'm the tank.

katanagirl1 · January 18

Other/mixed (feel free to comment!)

I generally accept that I am not likely to get a player who is specced as a tank when I queue, and don’t get upset about it unless that player is a speed runner and/or drags the boss around and makes it harder to dps. However, that player just got an instant queue when I waited 20-30 minutes as a dps. That’s why they are fake.

Also, I don’t do random normals unless I am leveling up a new character. So if I’m queuing for a specific pledge dungeon, and if the fake tank is queuing for a random normal, then it’s even more unfair. You just ruined my pledge run.

DenverRalphy · January 18

Other/mixed (feel free to comment!)

A "Fank Tank" is a Tank with Ferociaus Stank.

It becomes a problem when they stand too close.

AvalonRanger · January 18

Other/mixed (feel free to comment!)

What is a fank tank and when is it a problem?

Problem?.....Did you say "problem"? Seriously?

Because, unexperienced ESO player keep mimicking "wrong tactics" without learning basic.

I've seen many times bad low CP player who doesn't have common sense came to Vet
dungeon with wrong tank build (or almost fake), and keep insulting against real decent healer.

I know most of normal dungeon except few of specific mech don't need real tank.
But teaching wrong tactics against unexperienced player is simply bad habit.

On the other hand, I also can understand why some experienced player tend to do fake tanking.
I'm tank main player, and sometimes I meet almost fake DD who can't deal effective damage work
than real tank.

ESO really needs basic role building tutorial menu for the beginners.

Orbital78 · January 18

The only time it is a problem to me, is if they aren't truly any role. They are just a fill carry, if it is a base game normal I'm sure someone can pick up the slack. I've been on both sides of the story, after running a dungeon for the hundredth if not thousandth time, it does get tedious. This is part of the reason I mostly switched to specific queues or random vets. Often times when they are a bad player and just run through, they just expect everyone else to die rather being a Chad and just melting the ball of enemies. It is base game bro, if you cannot melt that group as you go or in a line of sight pocket you really don't need to be in that role.

I do miss the older tormentor set, that was my jam. I was able to aggro all of the enemies so new players weren't being killed and able to line of sight them into a ball where they could be decimated. It was probably good exp for the new players and they were less likely to die. That fun was killed.

If they are queuing for veteran content that starts to become an issue. I can solo most base game vet dungeons, even on hard mode. Do I want to do that for a group of strangers? Probably not. There is also a big issue with people queuing as tank getting a harder DLC vet and doing a nope. That leaves three players with a wasted queue. If the queue system worked better, it might be less of an issue but often times a replacement tank will take longer than just leaving group and requeuing after cooldown.

DreamyLu · January 18

Other/mixed (feel free to comment!)

Maybe I see it too simple, but for me, no matter the class and equipment: someone doing the tank job properly can be declared a true tank.

I understand that certain specific equipment and skills favorise the job, but as long as the job is done, I wouldn't link the notion of "fake" tank to that. For me it's rather a matter of results: if job is done, the guy was a tank.

Wolfshade · January 18

Last week i asked myself the question, what is the role, people think a tank has to deal with. And i think that should be the better question in many ways. We should clearify this question before thinking of what is a good/fank tank.

Taunt? No, thats not part of a good tank. Thats should be pretty normal.
Taunt isn`t taunt? If you didnt use Tremor or Silverleash, you are not a tank!?
Buff, the Group? No point to choose!
Debuff Enemies? No point to choose!
Booth doesnt matter for players who has learned something about running Silverleash or Icestaff!

This poll is not a good poll, cause i see so many players who didnt has any clue what is the role/ could be the role of a tank. And there are many more aspekts than staying alive and taunt. This could just the answer of unknown players and shown the minimum quality and understandment of Eso in playerbase.

After that, my 50k life Nekro running Icestaff or Koloss and Leeching Plate is a good tank. No he isnt, he is the poorest tank in groupcontend but many would prefer and call this as a real tank while nb is a fake tank.

The Elder Scrolls Online

What is a fank tank and when is it a problem?

What is a fank tank and when is it a problem? 163 votes