Official Discussion Thread for "Update 45 Preview—Fallen Banners"

Avran_Sylt · January 9

I like most everything PvE related.

I'm skeptical on the PvP front.

Baseline 70K HP and tooltips that look like they're only 4K damage likely means they're fully invested into a singular style of combat: dueling.

But we'll have to see what all the skills are.

ZOS_Kevin · January 9

TaSheen wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I want to see the new houses. I missed the livestream. And the green cp change makes me happy.

Here is a link to the VOD for those that missed the stream. @Sakiri housing starts at the 37min mark.

Hey Kevin, no link to the VOD showing....

Thank you for the flag. I forgot to hyperlink. Again, doing several things at once. Link is now added to the original post.

Khallarion · January 9

Let's see if I understand it properly, accordingly to what was revealed thus far...

Instead of improving the server capacity through improvements, the developers pick up an easier approach where they downgrade the game, abilities, classes etc., so they would fit the current overloaded servers situation. Not only that, but they'll simply everything, coming from a previous patch where we were motivated to create our own skills and abilities for general usage, being through PvP or PvE.

That this will turns Cyrodill out into a generic fighting/shooter game, where we pick up specific characters and abilities, without much variety aside cosmetics, in order to support our group/faction through generic and simplified roles as well. Doesn't look like an Elder Scrolls' approach, where variety and freedom were the main aspects of the franchise. This won't improve Cyrodill, it will reframe everything into something new with the expectations of success.

This is quite risky... not saying it won't work, because everything can work if proper effort put, but it's risky. This resembles a bit of Chivalry II, where you pick up classes and weapons and you must perform quite well in 1v1, understanding the mechanics in order to prevail. Chivalry is nice, it's straight and simple, it works, but bringing that to ESO... hmm... I would rather play PvP in Chivalry then, or any other game where the formula was already improved and works.

The improvements will be applied gradually, using the current PvP population in order to adjust it all and see how it will work out. Well, at least the patch will be free, but this will definitely kill the PvP as we know it. This should be thought with care and attention, and an outstanding work must be done in order to succeed.

It reminds me when ESO was launched, also reminds me a bit about Final Fantasy Online, before a Realm Reborn... I wouldn't like to be the one in charge of the project, because I would be aware of what's in check there... gladly, I'm a solo players who enjoys PvE and other aspects of the game!

Talking about those other improvements, it seems that the main focus of ZOS is actually recycling their player base, promoting PvE content rather PvP. That's alright, even good for players who enjoy PvE like myself, and don't care much about competition etc. This will definitely refine the type of people ZOS wants to attract.

Soarora · January 9

Enodoc wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

“As mentioned above, if you wish to tackle these two new Alliance War-themed dungeons, you’ll need an active ESO Plus membership. The dungeon DLC will NOT be available for purchase for crowns at launch.”

Has this happened with new content in the past?

This isn’t a good move in my opinion.

Technically this is how Chapters worked, but I would be interested in a more detailed explanation of the reasoning it's now being applied to what we would have previously considered "DLC content".

You did not need eso+ to buy Chapters, you could buy the Chapter ahead of time knowing that you will have it forever. I get why they would do this, it funnels people into buying eso+ out of need, but this really throws a wrench in things, especially if any of the new sets become a must-have. For me personally, this means that I can’t play with my friends because while I’m willing to sacrifice money to buy eso+, they are not. It doesn’t feel good knowing I’d have to pay 15 dollars to access the dungeons for a month, not be able to actually play with any of my friends, not have the dungeons for who knows how long, then buy them again.

Arthtur · January 9

Wait a minute... u CANT buy those dungeons for crowns??? U HAVE to get ESO+???
I will just say im rly not happy about that. Sigh...
And thats rather important info that should be pointed out during livestream.

React · January 9

CoolBlast3 wrote: »

React wrote: »

What exactly is the point of trying to reach the old population caps if it means stripping away everything that makes eso combat enjoyable? Do you really think that if you were to impose these restrictions and it fixed the performance completely, there would suddenly be enough players to come anywhere close to reaching those old population caps? I'd wager that restrictions like this would have the opposite effect, reducing the number of overall players even further and rendering the goal of the project completely moot.

It's a singular week meant for TESTING and DATA-GATHERING purposes. They outright said it's not their plans for Cyrodiil during the stream. They're TESTING.

They said that their goal was to reach the launch population caps, and that strict restrictions such as those shown on stream are the avenue they're exploring. Im suggesting that this is flawed in intention as well as execution, because the population already isnt really in excess of the current population caps and is unlikely to reach anywhere close to the numbers they're suggesting with restrictions like this being imposed. But thank you for typing in capitals for me, you definitely got the point across!

ZOS_Kevin · January 9

Khallarion wrote: »

Let's see if I understand it properly, accordingly to what was revealed thus far...

Instead of improving the server capacity through improvements, the developers pick up an easier approach where they downgrade the game, abilities, classes etc., so they would fit the current overloaded servers situation. Not only that, but they'll simply everything, coming from a previous patch where we were motivated to create our own skills and abilities for general usage, being through PvP or PvE.

That this will turns Cyrodill out into a generic fighting/shooter game, where we pick up specific characters and abilities, without much variety aside cosmetics, in order to support our group/faction through generic and simplified roles as well. Doesn't look like an Elder Scrolls' approach, where variety and freedom were the main aspects of the franchise. This won't improve Cyrodill, it will reframe everything into something new with the expectations of success.

This is quite risky... not saying it won't work, because everything can work if proper effort put, but it's risky. This resembles a bit of Chivalry II, where you pick up classes and weapons and you must perform quite well in 1v1, understanding the mechanics in order to prevail. Chivalry is nice, it's straight and simple, it works, but bringing that to ESO... hmm... I would rather play PvP in Chivalry then, or any other game where the formula was already improved and works.

The improvements will be applied gradually, using the current PvP population in order to adjust it all and see how it will work out. Well, at least the patch will be free, but this will definitely kill the PvP as we know it. This should be thought with care and attention, and an outstanding work must be done in order to succeed.

It reminds me when ESO was launched, also reminds me a bit about Final Fantasy Online, before a Realm Reborn... I wouldn't like to be the one in charge of the project, because I would be aware of what's in check there... gladly, I'm a solo players who enjoys PvE and other aspects of the game!

Just wanted to follow up to stress that this change for Cyrodiil is a week long test to gather information. We have to test to try and get to the desired result of an improved Cyrodiil. To reiterate what was said on the livestream, it will be a week long so that we can gather information and get player feedback. While this is an avenue for Cyrodiil, we are not making any changes without player feedback and data to back up a positive player experience.

We know and have heard for a while now that folks want an improvement to Cyrodiil. This is an opportunity to get information to head in that direction.

Alaztor91 · January 9

Do the new Dungeons require ESO+ to ''unlock''? similar to Tanlorin/Zerith-Var(meaning they stay unlocked in your account after your sub ends) or are you ''renting'' them(similar to something like the Craft Bag).

DietDrKelp2 · January 9

I hope that PVP stuff is really just a "test" because it would take a lot of usefulness and creativeness away from pvp and a lot of sets. Eso has a very unique pvp imo and wouldn't want to see it changed that drastically.

K1NGPALM3R1 · January 9

It needs an improvement not a complete change and putting everyone at the same level and gear etc.

You have lost a massive population of PvP players this will drive them to dropping the game.

If these changes are instrumental why not just put it to a “new” campaign.

People have grinded gear and tweaked there builds to be the best they can be. So your effectively nerfing them because someone in blue gear cry’s when they die to a heavy attack.

Kyip · January 9

They could move the direction of Guild Wars 2 world-vs-world, at least to test it. Big maps like Cyrodiil. In the base/starter area, like the safe camps, you could freely adjust your build. Everyone gets access to maxed out full item sets for every possible gear combination. It lets people test and experiment with any build at zero cost, without all being identical. People loved that feature.

Soarora · January 9

K1NGPALM3R1 wrote: »

It needs an improvement not a complete change and putting everyone at the same level and gear etc.

You have lost a massive population of PvP players this will drive them to dropping the game.

If these changes are instrumental why not just put it to a “new” campaign.

People have grinded gear and tweaked there builds to be the best they can be. So your effectively nerfing them because someone in blue gear cry’s when they die to a heavy attack.

It is a new campaign, its called Vengence. The test on live will disable the other campaigns for a week to funnel people into the test, but it is in its own campaign.

Necrotech_Master · January 9

looking forward to the dungeons

and also looking forward to the green CP tree changes, it sounds like they are making most of this tree passive so wont need to slot the non-combat related perks anymore

JakelDK · January 9

Everything in that stream was just wonderfull! Addons for consol!! Come on now! Thanks! And the qol update to the greentree yes pls. Also excited about the new campaign in cyro! This was a homerun for zos imo! Have a great evening everyone

Quethrosar · January 9

nothing new for the elite people? need a meta shake up !

sarahthes · January 9

Quethrosar wrote: »

nothing new for the elite people? need a meta shake up !

One of the sets might see some use, it's slightly worse than aegis caller.

old_scopie1945 · January 9

I like the look of it all. PVE items look very encouraging. I am not a PVP player but the changes look interesting. I will certainly give it a go for the testing stage. I think a secondary bonus to the changes is that it levels out the playing field for all. Thumbs up from me.

Syldras · January 9

LunaFlora wrote: »

it's awesome that Skingrad Castle will be a home 🩷

While I'm looking forward to many of the announced changes, this is something I personally dislike. It's a beautiful building and offering something similar somewhere on the countryside wouldn't bother me at all (call it an abandoned castle, or make lore about some lower noble or rich merchant building a replica of the real castle out of admiration and now they sell it because of they move elsewhere in Tamriel, or something like that). But selling things that are considered truly unique and meaningful in lore just feels wrong to me. How is something still meaningful if everyone can just buy it? It makes things feel mundane. I know this is just the continuation of a tendency and happened before (think of Sotha Sil's helmet as a costume part, your own personal dolmen as a fast travel animation or being able to run around costumed as Molag Bal everywhere), but it's really a pity in my personal opinion. And when it comes to that castle now, I'd rather have seen some interesting questline around it.

Ph1p · January 9

I was starting to look forward to the new dungeons, until I read that they won't be available for purchase with Crowns, at least not at launch. Frankly, this is anti-consumer behavior and borders on being fraudulent, since it is a sudden departure from previous practice and significantly devalues existing Crowns that people paid for in the past. It's like purchasing a gift card from Amazon, but two months later they tell you that it can't be used to buy books any more.

I really try rooting for you, I really do. But why bother if this is how you treat your customers...

Elvenheart · January 9

Just a comment, but I just realized that Master Gatherer isn’t on the list (sigh). I’m still happy about the other changes to the Green Tree - I have Meticulous Disassembly and Plentiful Harvest in use on all my characters right now, along with Master Gatherer, so it will be nice to get those active slots back for something else! I was just wishing Master Gatherer would have been on the list too, for the same logic of some of the others, that once you learn how to skillfully gather a plant you don’t just forget how when you learn to do something else. 🌿

LunaFlora · January 9

Syldras wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

it's awesome that Skingrad Castle will be a home 🩷

While I'm looking forward to many of the announced changes, this is something I personally dislike. It's a beautiful building and offering something similar somewhere on the countryside wouldn't bother me at all (call it an abandoned castle, or make lore about some lower noble or rich merchant building a replica of the real castle out of admiration and now they sell it because of they move elsewhere in Tamriel, or something like that). But selling things that are considered truly unique and meaningful in lore just feels wrong to me. How is something still meaningful if everyone can just buy it? It makes things feel mundane. I know this is just the continuation of a tendency and happened before (think of Sotha Sil's helmet as a costume part, your own personal dolmen as a fast travel animation or being able to run around costumed as Molag Bal everywhere), but it's really a pity in my personal opinion. And when it comes to that castle now, I'd rather have seen some interesting questline around it.

in universe the Vestige is only one person.

and what else was it realistically going to be besides a house? we knew since April 2024 that it wasn't possible to enter the castle and the likeliest reason is it being a house.

I'd love a countryside home too, but Count Calantius clearly likes living in his office so this is cool to me

TaSheen · January 9

It's a nice place.... the castle I mean. I'm not much interested in the other house. I'm honestly at this point only interested in Erlibru's Cottage and Tor Draioch tower. I SO wish those would be available....

Syldras · January 9

LunaFlora wrote: »

and what else was it realistically going to be besides a house? we knew since April 2024 that it wasn't possible to enter the castle and the likeliest reason is it being a house.

They could have added some story to it later, especially considering they now plan to add new quests to older zones.

Estin · January 9

Reposting what I posted in another thread about the PvP testing

I understand the need to start somewhere if their PvP tests, but understand the lack of faith in it.

I do hope that with this, they can identify what causes major performance impacts and slowly start reintroducing more build diversity into this new mode. Starting with weapon skill lines, armor passives, skill and class passives, no proc sets, etc all the way up to what's currently available, but more performant and allowing for a large population. This is going to need a lot of attention, as in if something works or doesn't work, it shouldn't take another 6-12 months to iterate to the next version of testing. A high population is nice, but not at the permanent cost of removed diversity/identity.

UntilValhalla13 · January 9

LunaFlora wrote: »

And love that consoles are getting Add-ons.

Wait, what? Do we finally get dressing room?

Soraka · January 9

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Khallarion wrote: »

Let's see if I understand it properly, accordingly to what was revealed thus far...

Instead of improving the server capacity through improvements, the developers pick up an easier approach where they downgrade the game, abilities, classes etc., so they would fit the current overloaded servers situation. Not only that, but they'll simply everything, coming from a previous patch where we were motivated to create our own skills and abilities for general usage, being through PvP or PvE.

That this will turns Cyrodill out into a generic fighting/shooter game, where we pick up specific characters and abilities, without much variety aside cosmetics, in order to support our group/faction through generic and simplified roles as well. Doesn't look like an Elder Scrolls' approach, where variety and freedom were the main aspects of the franchise. This won't improve Cyrodill, it will reframe everything into something new with the expectations of success.

This is quite risky... not saying it won't work, because everything can work if proper effort put, but it's risky. This resembles a bit of Chivalry II, where you pick up classes and weapons and you must perform quite well in 1v1, understanding the mechanics in order to prevail. Chivalry is nice, it's straight and simple, it works, but bringing that to ESO... hmm... I would rather play PvP in Chivalry then, or any other game where the formula was already improved and works.

The improvements will be applied gradually, using the current PvP population in order to adjust it all and see how it will work out. Well, at least the patch will be free, but this will definitely kill the PvP as we know it. This should be thought with care and attention, and an outstanding work must be done in order to succeed.

It reminds me when ESO was launched, also reminds me a bit about Final Fantasy Online, before a Realm Reborn... I wouldn't like to be the one in charge of the project, because I would be aware of what's in check there... gladly, I'm a solo players who enjoys PvE and other aspects of the game!

Just wanted to follow up to stress that this change for Cyrodiil is a week long test to gather information. We have to test to try and get to the desired result of an improved Cyrodiil. To reiterate what was said on the livestream, it will be a week long so that we can gather information and get player feedback. While this is an avenue for Cyrodiil, we are not making any changes without player feedback and data to back up a positive player experience.

We know and have heard for a while now that folks want an improvement to Cyrodiil. This is an opportunity to get information to head in that direction.

I appreciate you saying that, but I remember when we went through that long test after test before we lost population each time. I even took a break after awhile. We ended up with no answers and small groups and population cap (and less players because they were driven off by being test subjects), and that didn't help either. I'm trying to not lose faith and I'm sure I'm just being cranky right now, but geez I don't feel good about this.

Edit to add:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/539136/update-on-cyrodiil-performance-upcoming-aoe-tests/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/550307/these-tests-are-killing-pvp

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/648108/cyrodiil-population-cap-testing/p1

The healing only group change (for those who suggest stuff like that a lot)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6989406#Comment_6989406

The summary of tests:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7011952/#Comment_7011952

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561180/feb-15-cyrodiil-test-details/p1

I am sad (wah).

Dimorphos · January 9

I really do not get the idea behind this cyrodiil test campaign where we are left with only some base skills and absent set bonuses and lots of other stuff and everyone being locked within same narrow scale of abilities. What is the point of this?

"let's give them just sticks and light attack and see if that works"

Why do we have all these sets and skills if we are not allowed to use them? They should be available in all content including every damage proc set. Otherwise it's all just a waste and pointless.

If your car is broken, fix it, don't just remove things until there is only wheels left and keep calling it a car when it is not.

EDIT: We are paying for this game and that means the whole game and everything in it. ESO is 100% still making a lot of profit and you most certainly have the resources to do better than this. I did not collect all those sets and level up my characters only to test if "stuff works better when you have less to use and choose from". That is just absurd.

LunaFlora · January 9

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

And love that consoles are getting Add-ons.

Wait, what? Do we finally get dressing room?

we don't know what kinda add-ons but we will get add-on support

Whizzinglane · January 9

"Lived in" zones, yes! I simply would hope the revamp to the old zones are/will be akin to TES IV: Oblivion, where the flora and grass are much taller. The environments more vibrant and lushful. Stros M'kai is beautiful, and with upcoming improvements, it will be idyllic, aesthetically pleasing. More flora and fauna, please.

I very much like the idea for PvP. PvP should be about skill, where all other viables are constant. The proposed change is interesting because our feedback will help shape the final outcome.

ESO, you are on the right track thus far (with this news), and I am enthusiastic for what to come.

Edit: Added a space

Estin · January 9

Dimorphos wrote: »

What is the point of this?

To test performance, as they stated. It's not set in stone, so everything is subject to change. They are wanting feedback, but they will have to listen to it.

Frankly, starting from the absolute baseline and working their way up to what we have now is the ideal way to go about this. It would allow them to pinpoint what exactly is causing the terrible performance in cyrodiil despite only having 40 people in a campaign. Essentially, this can be the start of separating PvE from PvP which needs to happen.

However, they need to follow through with this, and in a timely manner as well. If performance is great with this test, don't leave it at that. The next iteration, i.e. adding weapon skills next, should come at most a month or two later until we are where we are now except with better performance and much higher population caps.

I have my concerns over this too since if it's only this (which I personally don't believe will be the case), it can kill open world PvP entirely. It's important to know it's only a test, so proper feedback is going to need to be provided. Immediately dismissing it in this basic stage can really hurt any potential iterations.