Streamers and Zos

Kelenan7368 · January 8

So I do watch streamers on twitch and YouTube. And lately since the PVP Event most but not all Content creators have been bashing ZOS non stop.
Saying how they never listen to the community, and don't know their own game.
Well There was 1 Content creator that hit the nail on the head. Jake from Jake clips. He shared that even though he has a moderate following he discovered when he was doing a Golden vendor video, that when he was recommending Monster sets that the vast majority of the community that follows him actually never have ran a dungeon before.
BOOM!
That's the revelation! Even the Content streamers do not represent totally everyone following them as to what they like to do in the game. But several of these streamers want to call foul if ZOS does not listen and make changes on their feedback!
Even Nefas recently put out a video claiming how ZOS never listened to him and insulted him and singled him out and embarrassed him.
Well that may or may not have been his experience.
[snip]
Just because you have a platform it does not mean ZOS has to take in your feedback and implement it! Hell they built this game without any players for people to play. I am certain they know full well what they want to do in this game and some things succeed and some things don't.
I as a player for the last 5 years truly enjoy ESO!
It has so damn much to do it's insane. I still after 5 years have not done everything there is to do in this game. It is perfect for the casual player! It is perfect for the hardcore player!
It has a fantastic over land content and game play for Solo or group! It has everything for casual to hardcore Dungeon players. It has great content for casual to hardcore Raiders! It has Great PVP! I would argue some of the best PVP in any MMO out there! Yes Cyrodiil at first when I started playing had bad lag But today plays well at least for me.
All thing could be improved but its fun. Battlegrounds rock and are fun! Imperial city is fun! Sometimes I kick ass! Other times I get my ass handed to me.
The point is that the game is a well balanced game for every player type.
And for these content creators to cry foul because they don't get a ringside seat for content creation is absurd! They do not represent the community as a whole!
I love how the casual gamer can go on a whim hop into never before played content and in a small time frame hold their own with hardcore players!
This is unique to ESO! And very well done!
These content creators and the community do get heard on their feedback. But it would be arrogant to think that any feedback will be set in stone to be implemented!
[snip]
Give your feedback but leave it at that. ZOS is going to continue to make this ROCK SOLID GAME!
They will do it for us all to have fun! They will do it to make Money! They will do their own thing! I hope they mostly do just that. And they will take some feedback and run with it.
ZOS could do better at communicating sometimes, [snip]

ZOS, Creators: I love this game, I hope it continues for years to come. It is extremely fun and entertaining and very well planned out for everyone of all gamming types to be fully engaged and enjoy!
I Thank you all on the ZOS team for making my miserable life that much more fun and bearable! I enjoy this game from playing with my kids, to playing hardcore PVP!
The experience is wonderful!

And Please feel free as the forum community to add how you love or hate this Game!

Streamers: Try to be like JAKE! He never bashes! But he does comment!

[edited for baiting]

manukartofanu · January 8

Nefas mentioned in his video that he's tired of being a "YES MAN." And I might be mistaken, but I think I've heard streamers say more than once that there are many players who like everything, and that's part of the problem. When new changes are introduced that don't affect them in any way, they happily proclaim these changes to be great, drowning out everyone else.

So everything's fine. What I don't understand is why it's suddenly not okay to express dissatisfaction about something. Why is it necessary to always either be happy or stay silent?

Erickson9610 · January 9

You can give criticism without bashing. Frankly, I don't think there's an "extreme" way to give praise, the way there's an "extreme" way to give criticism.

No one's saying you can't disagree with the direction ZOS is taking.

kevkj · January 9

Please someone please get Ja Rule to weigh in on all of these recent events, I don't know what to think anymore.

KekwLord3000 · January 9

Imma be as respectful as I can (please don't ban be me zos)

Zos has no clue how the game works, sure they know how everything in the back end works and how things connected but actual balancing and mechanics are far from their understanding. Which is fine unless their combat designers are heavy gamers I don't expect them to know every interaction they have PTS for us the players to test new stuff out find bugs and report, and of course report stuff that are broken, or just too weak to bother with, but that's common for pretty much every game with live service nothing revolutionary here.
The distrust between the players comes when we make suggestions and zos flat out ignores what we ask, if they were very knowledgeable in their game I'd say ok fair enough you know better, but that's not the case.

Here are some examples when zos proved their "we the boss we know better" was pretty bad for the game.
U35: many people begged to not release the changes as they were with hundreds of testers on pts, people who have ove 10k hours who knows the game from the inside and out pled to zos but zos went with their own desicion (which in the future they agreed in hindsight was a bad decision).
Class rep program: It ran for years many suggestions were made with zos ignoring the vast majority with nothing much coming up.
There are probably more examples but I don't want it to sound as if I'm bashing them. Rich keep asking us for trust, we ask Rich and the rest of Zos to have trust in us(trust goes both ways) we the players that played the game for many hours we know what we want, we know what works and what doesn't. The game is going for its 11th year but Zos look a bit lost, please let player feedback weigh more in your decision.

I've seen an interview with Rich about this topic exactly (of game devs knowing when to say no to players) iirc it was related to ESO making 2 billion dollars of revenue. Anyways iirc Rich said the devs should accept 10% of what the players suggest and filter out the 90%, imo that thought process alienated a lot of players and caused a huge distrust. I'm not saying zos should do all what we say of course not, but just keep an open mind to what the player wants and keep an open line of communication zos likes to turtle up until the chapter release then turtle up till the Matt's letter in Dec and very little communication outside of that, imo if zos wants to get the players trust back they should do at least a monthly article/recap/stream of what's gonna happen or they plan on doing. And they should do a QA, not necessarily a live one but a QA where they answer tough questions cause the trust factor from us players at the moment is fairly low and I do hope zos tries their best to save the game cause it's been going in a down trend for a while, and there were signs all along the path where simple solutions could have stopped the decline.

Stamicka · January 9

There wouldn’t be so much negative feedback if people were happy with the game. It’s good that you are enjoying ESO, but there’s clearly some serious dissatisfaction as evidenced by how many people have stopped playing. How is the game going to improve and grow if no one gives feedback?

In regards to your comments about Nefas, the big problem isn’t that his feedback wasn’t listened to. The problem is that Nefas was threatened by ZOS (according to him) for giving negative feedback. Can we agree that it isn’t ok to threaten someone for providing constructive feedback, even if it’s negative?

Artim_X · January 9

In relation to streamers, word of mouth can be essential to promoting your game to both old and new players.

Postive/negative feedback from everyone in the community is necessary to understand if a game is doing well, what quality of life improvements should be added, what needs to be fixed, what type of content should be added, etc.

I enjoy watching Nefas' ESO content so I was disheartened to hear his negative experiences. I won't take everything that he says a gospel, since misunderstandings can occur, but my one takeaway is that ZOS should be confident enough in their game to not hear negative feedback from a streamer they work with and decide to ask the streamer if they still want to work with them.

I'm of the mind that as long as the person isn't saying hateful things on stream, having negative takes on the direction of the game should not factor in one's ability to promote the game either through the Content Creator Program or the Stream Team.

Adremal · January 9

Kelenan7368 wrote: »

So I do watch streamers on twitch and YouTube.

I don't, so I can cut in half the annoyance - the other 50% of which lies with ZoS, so there's little to do there. Little meaning nothing at all.

OtarTheMad · January 9

I've seen some videos and streams where the person probably thinks they are giving constructive criticism but it just was not, they might not have realized that they were definitely bashing and being overly negative. I've known people that will run up to someone say to them "you are so blanking stupid" (using a different word for blanking) and then claiming the person can't take criticism when they react badly. In one U35 video title about U35 Nefas put "has ZOS gone insane". I see that as kind of pushing the envelope a bit, putting something overly negative to get some clicks for drama. I wasn't a fan of anything in U35 at all but I am just saying some things could have been worded differently.

You can still express your doubt or be critical of an update without bashing and I think it's not unreasonable for ZOS to expect Stream Team members to know the difference. ZOS spends a lot of time and money on them so to change your tone from (as an example, not saying anyone said this) "this update has some really dumb changes, what is ZOS thinking? They must be nuts" to something like "Well, I am not a huge fan of this direction. I encourage people to test this out themselves and submit some feedback and maybe we can get some of these changes more attention. I don't want these changes to have people leave the game."

Here is also something that might be happening is people just following the leader. They see some negative videos on YT by some top ESO creators, some deserved, some overly negative for clicks, and they just think "game is bad" without even trying it OR they change their opinion like "well, I don't have this experience but he must know more than me, game must be bad." Players already blindly follow the leader with meta without trying other things out, so why not with this.

Now if the person is being constructive and ZOS still asks them to take down a video then that's on ZOS and they need to change but I have just seen some streamers live streams and some YT videos where players think they are being constructive but just are not. So misunderstandings happen.

Soraka · January 9

I think there's room for experience and feedback from whoever, and I recognize it can be difficult to understand where someone's frustration can be if we aren't in their shoes.

I suspect burnout affects streamers as well and maybe their expression of frustration gets a little far and can affect the tone and interactions of their viewers, leading to more doomer mode etc. I don't think they should have to not have complaints though. Maybe if some had felt heard or been able to express earlier, before they hit burnout, they wouldn't have gotten to that point.

They say love and hate are two sides of the same coin. I think what we witness is someone's love turning sour over time.

Lyraen_Skyforge · January 9

I don’t personally like the person you are referencing. He’s part of the stream team, and their views can’t be trusted because they’re bound by non-disclosure agreements.

I prefer to listen to non-stream team members who can be honest about their opinions. They tend to have more accurate and unbiased information since it isn’t policed or curated by community managers.

Stream team members often feel obligated to stay positive or neutral, which limits their ability to provide genuine feedback about the game’s shortcomings. This is why many of us value independent voices who speak openly about the game’s flaws and areas for improvement.

Warhawke_80 · January 9

Streamers and their followers seem to be upset that ZoS isn't quaking in their boots over a bunch of High School Drama...The game is ten years old it's already hit it's target revenue...anything now is just residuals...ZoS has bigger fish to fry other than some kid ranting over a plethora of loosely connected topics and how they feel put out....

They are currently doing a major restructure of the entire game in how it relates to content and updates
rewriting code to make overland more challenging
Massively changing PVP......AGAIN
On top of building a brand new MMO

I don't think they have time to stop because someone got their feelings hurt for what many of us believe to be silly reasons

There is nothing wrong with being critical of the game
There is nothing wrong with being positive about the game

Lyraen_Skyforge · January 9

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Streamers and their followers seem to be upset that ZoS isn't quaking in their boots over a bunch of High School Drama...The game is ten years old it's already hit it's target revenue...anything now is just residuals...ZoS has bigger fish to fry other than some kid ranting over a plethora of loosely connected topics and how they feel put out....

They are currently doing a major restructure of the entire game in how it relates to content and updates
rewriting code to make overland more challenging
Massively changing PVP......AGAIN
On top of building a brand new MMO

I don't think they have time to stop because someone got their feelings hurt for what many of us believe to be silly reasons

There is nothing wrong with being critical of the game
There is nothing wrong with being positive about the game

What you’ve described is actually a great reason to leave the game. It’s peaked, and ZOS seems more focused on other projects than maintaining or improving what they already have. That’s fine—it is what it is.

No one’s feelings are hurt here. People are just tired. Tired of the ZOS-sanctioned toxic positivity that pretends everything is fine while a significant portion of the player base feels ignored or outright pushed away.

Constructive criticism isn’t drama—it’s how players communicate that they want the game to succeed. Ignoring it or dismissing it as whining doesn’t help anyone, least of all the game itself.

Estin · January 9

There are two types of ESO players. The casual players who play the game primarily solo, and MMO players who play the game as a traditional MMO. The majority of streamers/content creators are MMO players, and their followers are the same. Their complaints largely have to do with that side of the game. If you aren't actively participating in that side of the game, you will never understand the complaints they have and will mostly see it as baseless complaints or dooming. Some can learn to have more tact with it, but many of them have been creators for years and haven't seen much positive improvement with the game's MMO content. I respect Jake, but he is also relatively new to the scene.

Warhawke_80 · January 9

Streamers and their followers seem to be upset that ZoS isn't quaking in their boots over a bunch of High School Drama...The game is ten years old it's already hit it's target revenue...anything now is just residuals...ZoS has bigger fish to fry other than some kid ranting over a plethora of loosely connected topics and how they feel put out....

They are currently doing a major restructure of the entire game in how it relates to content and updates
rewriting code to make overland more challenging
Massively changing PVP......AGAIN
On top of building a brand new MMO

I don't think they have time to stop because someone got their feelings hurt for what many of us believe to be silly reasons

RomanRex wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Streamers and their followers seem to be upset that ZoS isn't quaking in their boots over a bunch of High School Drama...The game is ten years old it's already hit it's target revenue...anything now is just residuals...ZoS has bigger fish to fry other than some kid ranting over a plethora of loosely connected topics and how they feel put out....

They are currently doing a major restructure of the entire game in how it relates to content and updates
rewriting code to make overland more challenging
Massively changing PVP......AGAIN
On top of building a brand new MMO

I don't think they have time to stop because someone got their feelings hurt for what many of us believe to be silly reasons

There is nothing wrong with being critical of the game
There is nothing wrong with being positive about the game

What you’ve described is actually a great reason to leave the game. It’s peaked, and ZOS seems more focused on other projects than maintaining or improving what they already have. That’s fine—it is what it is.

No one’s feelings are hurt here. People are just tired. Tired of the ZOS-sanctioned toxic positivity that pretends everything is fine while a significant portion of the player base feels ignored or outright pushed away.

Constructive criticism isn’t drama—it’s how players communicate that they want the game to succeed. Ignoring it or dismissing it as whining doesn’t help anyone, least of all the game itself.

ZoS has always been really cool about dropping in and out of the game... so you do you
Every word reaction and hot take screams of hurt feelings so lets be real...
And saying something nice isn't Toxic Positivity...that phrase has been woefully misused.

SeaGtGruff · January 9

I watch streamers on a semi-regular basis, and have several streamers and game titles that I follow. Most of the time I watch players streaming games other than ESO-- typically older RPGs, but also some newer games, along with the single-player TES games and, of course, ESO.

Speaking purely for myself, I much prefer to watch streamers who are upbeat about gaming. That doesn't mean I don't find it entertaining to watch someone struggling with a game for the first time and cursing up a storm if I can relate to it, but I'm not interested in watching someone repeatedly trashing a game every chance they get. Pointing out design decisions which seem really bad in hindsight is one thing, although I would expect the streamer to pass along any tips on the best ways to navigate the game's UI, or strategies for making it past any difficulties that can make it hard for a player to last long enough to start to gain a decent footing in the game. (Some of those early RPGs were brutal in the early stages if you were just learning how to play them, especially since some of them didn't even explain things very much because talking to the NPCs to find out what the heck you were supposed to be doing was considered part of the game.)

But gamers who do nothing but gripe about a particular game while they're playing it are not much fun to watch, and all of the complaining can be a real turn-off to me. Neither do I want to watch soneone gushing nonstop about wonderful the game is, but positive attitudes overall are far preferable to constant negativity. And I'm a lot more interested in watching someone who is going to teach their viewers how to play a game than someone who is trying to influence their viewers' opinions about how good or bad the game is.

Pepegrillos · January 9

No one wants to watch a streamer <snip> about a game you like 24/7. ESO in general has had low viewership, but I think this partly explain why some channels simply never grow. Their only audience are people jaded with the game that join in to participate in some sort of collective therapy session.

<snipped for Cursing and Profanity>

SilverBride · January 9

Pepegrillos wrote: »

No one wants to watch a streamer <snipped> about a game you like 24/7.

Exactly.

XSTRONG · January 9

I think most players that do complain about content, community management etc are endgame vet players pvp/pve.

Jakeclips videos about how to make gold from an event or whats in the Golden vendor are probably not what these players are looking at on YT.

There seems to be alot of players that are happy and really like the game but there is also alot of players thats not happy with how Eso is now but still like the game and both parts should be heard by Zos.

Franchise408 · January 9

Streamers and content creators are the worst thing about the gaming community. They have a sense of self importance, and push a narrative that only their view is legitimate. Nefas' video was absolutely a whine, and I've been off of Nefas for awhile, especially ever since he acted as tho end game players are victimized by casuals.

Content creators and streamers develop this perception that what they say about the game is the one and only truth, and that the game has to be played the way they say. Even for those within the same communities as them, this ends up having a toxic result. I consider myself an end-game player. I am a guild trial tank, I do vet content near exclusively, both vet DLC dungeons and vet trials. I am playing the highest level of content this game has to offer... and I completely disagree with the view that Nefas, and other CC's push, about the necessity of meta sets, and in general how one must approach vet content to succeed. This gets the in game community to buy into this nonsense and push it in game as well. I have had so many negative in game experiences because people I came across in dungeons felt the need to push that same narrative on myself or my group mates, I have guild members who are completely intimidated by vet level content and avoid doing it, all because of these narratives of needing specific meta sets and pushing 80k DPS.

I am not a fan of ZOS, I cannot be accused of being some "bootlicker". I don't agree with ZOS' overall direction for the game, I think they draw the wrong conclusions from the data, and I think they focus on the wrong areas and the wrong issues to address. I'm currently not even a regular player due to me not caring for the direction of the game.

However, at the end of the day, it is on me to decide if I want to play this game or not, if I want to give money to ZOS or not. They don't owe me anything. They make a product, I determine if that product is one for me or not. As is, it sits somewhere in the middle.

Listening to content creators like Nefas whine about it is the ultimate display of entitlement. Your content and your streams are not ZOS' responsibility, they don't owe anything to you or your channels. You can have whatever criticisms of ZOS that you want, and I probably share most of them, but the tantrum throwing and entitlement is ridiculous.

reazea · January 9

Pepegrillos wrote: »

No one wants to watch a streamer bitching about a game you like 24/7. ESO in general has had low viewership, but I think this partly explain why some channels simply never grow. Their only audience are people jaded with the game that join in to participate in some sort of collective therapy session.

The casual community doesn't appreciate the streamers and content creators because they don't participate in any content that requires help or tutorials to complete. And they don't notice the problems the streamers are pointing out for the same reason.

Warhawke_80 · January 9

reazea wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

No one wants to watch a streamer bitching about a game you like 24/7. ESO in general has had low viewership, but I think this partly explain why some channels simply never grow. Their only audience are people jaded with the game that join in to participate in some sort of collective therapy session.

The casual community doesn't appreciate the streamers and content creators because they don't participate in any content that requires help or tutorials to complete. And they don't notice the problems the streamers are pointing out for the same reason.

Casual players appreciate streamers for entertainment, not gameplay guidance; assuming ignorance dismisses their valid perspectives and priorities.

Pepegrillos · January 9

reazea wrote: »

Pepegrillos wrote: »

No one wants to watch a streamer bitching about a game you like 24/7. ESO in general has had low viewership, but I think this partly explain why some channels simply never grow. Their only audience are people jaded with the game that join in to participate in some sort of collective therapy session.

The casual community doesn't appreciate the streamers and content creators because they don't participate in any content that requires help or tutorials to complete. And they don't notice the problems the streamers are pointing out for the same reason.

That might explain why the utmost casuals don't tune in or stick around, but that's not the only audience this game has. There have been examples of channels that were not a constant therapy session, that were not aimed at the most casuals of the casuals, and that were fairly popular (i.e., Deltia).

wilykcat · January 9

Where's the profanity filter again?

sarahthes · January 9

Franchise408 wrote: »

Streamers and content creators are the worst thing about the gaming community. They have a sense of self importance, and push a narrative that only their view is legitimate. Nefas' video was absolutely a whine, and I've been off of Nefas for awhile, especially ever since he acted as tho end game players are victimized by casuals.

Content creators and streamers develop this perception that what they say about the game is the one and only truth, and that the game has to be played the way they say. Even for those within the same communities as them, this ends up having a toxic result. I consider myself an end-game player. I am a guild trial tank, I do vet content near exclusively, both vet DLC dungeons and vet trials. I am playing the highest level of content this game has to offer... and I completely disagree with the view that Nefas, and other CC's push, about the necessity of meta sets, and in general how one must approach vet content to succeed. This gets the in game community to buy into this nonsense and push it in game as well. I have had so many negative in game experiences because people I came across in dungeons felt the need to push that same narrative on myself or my group mates, I have guild members who are completely intimidated by vet level content and avoid doing it, all because of these narratives of needing specific meta sets and pushing 80k DPS.

I am not a fan of ZOS, I cannot be accused of being some "bootlicker". I don't agree with ZOS' overall direction for the game, I think they draw the wrong conclusions from the data, and I think they focus on the wrong areas and the wrong issues to address. I'm currently not even a regular player due to me not caring for the direction of the game.

However, at the end of the day, it is on me to decide if I want to play this game or not, if I want to give money to ZOS or not. They don't owe me anything. They make a product, I determine if that product is one for me or not. As is, it sits somewhere in the middle.

Listening to content creators like Nefas whine about it is the ultimate display of entitlement. Your content and your streams are not ZOS' responsibility, they don't owe anything to you or your channels. You can have whatever criticisms of ZOS that you want, and I probably share most of them, but the tantrum throwing and entitlement is ridiculous.

Respectfully, vet trials are not endgame content and are not impacted by most of the changes that the endgame community has historically cared about.

The most current HMs and trifectas are endgame. With current power creep I would say older HMs and trifectas ("the first five" as they are sometimes called) are closer to midgame.

Destai · January 9

If streamers are getting burnt out, with the game or company themselves, it says something. This is where the "gaming's a small world" comment was ironic. People don't develop attitudes in a vacuum. ESO's always had less streamers than other MMO's, even those of similar age. Maybe some people are challenging to work with, maybe there's not enough viewership or money in it. I dunno. Regardless, it seems like it's hard for them to maintain the streamer presence that other games enjoy. Hopefully they can improve those relationships.

I'm more pro-streamer than not. I don't watch streamers stream per se, but I do rely on them for knowledge. In ESO especially, they provide so much knowledge that cascades throughout the community. They're really valuable when it comes to making builds, which the game doesn't really teach itself outside of the basics. They're also provide walkthroughs, which are valuable when attempting more advanced content like veteran dungeons and trials. I'm thinking folks like SkinnyCheeks, Hyperioxes, Alcast, etc.

There are plenty of fair criticisms for this game and its management. I think streamers have little more visibility into the behind-the-scenes activity, so I have more trust in their criticisms. This whole Nefas thing, and the PVP stream before it, really put me off from watching anything ZOS official. So, I'm just focusing on enjoying the game and will read whatever notes come out of it.

Estin · January 9

Destai wrote: »

If streamers are getting burnt out, with the game or company themselves, it says something. This is where the "gaming's a small world" comment was ironic. People don't develop attitudes in a vacuum. ESO's always had less streamers than other MMO's, even those of similar age. Maybe some people are challenging to work with, maybe there's not enough viewership or money in it. I dunno. Regardless, it seems like it's hard for them to maintain the streamer presence that other games enjoy. Hopefully they can improve those relationships.

I'm more pro-streamer than not. I don't watch streamers stream per se, but I do rely on them for knowledge. In ESO especially, they provide so much knowledge that cascades throughout the community. They're really valuable when it comes to making builds, which the game doesn't really teach itself outside of the basics. They're also provide walkthroughs, which are valuable when attempting more advanced content like veteran dungeons and trials. I'm thinking folks like SkinnyCheeks, Hyperioxes, Alcast, etc.

There are plenty of fair criticisms for this game and its management. I think streamers have little more visibility into the behind-the-scenes activity, so I have more trust in their criticisms. This whole Nefas thing, and the PVP stream before it, really put me off from watching anything ZOS official. So, I'm just focusing on enjoying the game and will read whatever notes come out of it.

ESO never really had much viewership when it came to live streams or videos because of a couple of reasons. First is that there's really nothing interesting to show, much less now. PvP is always the same, more so than ever due to lower population, PvE progs aren't necessarily that fun to watch because there's a lot going on, and there's not much point in streaming main quest lines since unlike regular bethesda games, everyone's play through is 100% the same. The second is due to the two types of players I mentioned. ESO is mostly casual solo players, so they don't have any interest or reason to watch that type of content.

Streamers/Content Creators usually always have a bad perception from the majority of a game's players regardless of what game it is. I think it's because most streamers/content creators get something called streamer privilege, but ESO is one of the few where something like that doesn't happen

Destai · January 9

Estin wrote: »

Streamers/Content Creators usually always have a bad perception from the majority of a game's players regardless of what game it is. I think it's because most streamers/content creators get something called streamer privilege, but ESO is one of the few where something like that doesn't happen

The main privilege I see is a more direct line of communication with ZOS. That's a double-edged sword, as it sounds like ZOS influences some of their content. But, it also seems the more technical content creators have tools to test and examine changes that most of us do not. As a console player, I couldn't do what SkinnyCheeks does for example. Especially since PTS was changed to require buying the most recent Chapter, my testing is limited. For me, that's where people SkinnyCheeks and Nefas have a bit more credence when they criticize things.

HatchetHaro · January 9

imagine telling people to withhold criticism of a game they love and want to continue doing so lmao

Warhawke_80 · January 9

HatchetHaro wrote: »

imagine telling people to withhold criticism of a game they love and want to continue doing so lmao

Criticize all you want, just stop labeling everyone who enjoys the game a Toxic positive or a Toxic Casual

It's degrading speech and there should be no place for it on these forums

RaikaNA · January 10

Franchise408 wrote: »

Streamers and content creators are the worst thing about the gaming community. They have a sense of self importance, and push a narrative that only their view is legitimate. Nefas' video was absolutely a whine, and I've been off of Nefas for awhile, especially ever since he acted as tho end game players are victimized by casuals.

Content creators and streamers develop this perception that what they say about the game is the one and only truth, and that the game has to be played the way they say. Even for those within the same communities as them, this ends up having a toxic result. I consider myself an end-game player. I am a guild trial tank, I do vet content near exclusively, both vet DLC dungeons and vet trials. I am playing the highest level of content this game has to offer... and I completely disagree with the view that Nefas, and other CC's push, about the necessity of meta sets, and in general how one must approach vet content to succeed. This gets the in game community to buy into this nonsense and push it in game as well. I have had so many negative in game experiences because people I came across in dungeons felt the need to push that same narrative on myself or my group mates, I have guild members who are completely intimidated by vet level content and avoid doing it, all because of these narratives of needing specific meta sets and pushing 80k DPS.

I am not a fan of ZOS, I cannot be accused of being some "bootlicker". I don't agree with ZOS' overall direction for the game, I think they draw the wrong conclusions from the data, and I think they focus on the wrong areas and the wrong issues to address. I'm currently not even a regular player due to me not caring for the direction of the game.

However, at the end of the day, it is on me to decide if I want to play this game or not, if I want to give money to ZOS or not. They don't owe me anything. They make a product, I determine if that product is one for me or not. As is, it sits somewhere in the middle.

Listening to content creators like Nefas whine about it is the ultimate display of entitlement. Your content and your streams are not ZOS' responsibility, they don't owe anything to you or your channels. You can have whatever criticisms of ZOS that you want, and I probably share most of them, but the tantrum throwing and entitlement is ridiculous.

I agree with this post.

I'm also not a huge fan of ZOS so I can't be accused of being a "Yes man", but I still love the Elder Scrolls online game. regardless of what people feel.. the game vastly improved over the years. There are still a lot to improve.. I hope that ZOS will give the PvP community more love and attention in the future.

I'm not a huge fan of streamers and content creators either. Some demonstrated narcissistic behaviors that I don't want to support. I think it was wrong for Nefas to release the small VOD clip of him being told by @ZOS_GinaBruno to stop live streaming during a real-life event they were having. His followers and friends convinced him that Gina Bruno publicly humiliated him by asking him to stop streaming. He could have asked one of the staff first if there was streaming allowed before he turned on the camera, but it didn't seem like it happened. There are always two sides to the story... It does not surprise me that the whining video that Nefas published leads to potential legal trouble for him.