Will the New BG System Allow Group Queuing?

Stamicka · September 10

Somehow I never saw this question answered on stream, but I only saw a queue for a 4v4 BG and then an 8v8 BG. It was also mentioned that 8v8 had no MMR. Does this mean that a fully comped out premade group of 8 can queue against a random group? On the flip side however, removing the ability to do BGs with friends would also be terrible. Both possibilities are concerning.

Can we get any insight on this?

React · September 10

Also wondering about this, and surprised it wasn't mentioned. Although I suppose we'll find out when the PTS goes live on monday.

Theist_VII · September 10

If I recall correctly, Brian was saying that there will be no solo queue, so presumably yes.

IMO the real problems are how horrid the matchmaking timers are going to be with the stricter MMR rules, the lack of a solo queue option for players that don’t want to deal with annoying four stacks, the failure to reuse the ranking system of Tales of Tribute for the competitive playlist, and the complete lack of creativity when instead of making Avatars for each of the three Battlegrounds factions they simply reused the Werewolf Behemoth and our boring Vampire ultimate.

ZOS_Kevin · September 10

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

Estin · September 10

I don't know about 8v8, but you can queue for 4v4 in a group of 4. You can pause the livestream at 42:32 when Brian had the group finder up and see that it allows for groups up to 4. Mixing solo and group queues does sound like it'll be a recipe for disaster though. All it would take is one premade 4 man group, or god forbid an 8 man group, to ruin the match. It's the only thing I'm concerned about because getting trashed by a coordinated 8 man ballgroup would just make nobody want to play anymore.

Stamicka · September 10

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

Thank you Kevin, this solves most of my concerns about the new system. I'm hoping it'll work out.

xDeusEJRx · September 10

Estin wrote: »

I don't know about 8v8, but you can queue for 4v4 in a group of 4. You can pause the livestream at 42:32 when Brian had the group finder up and see that it allows for groups up to 4. Mixing solo and group queues does sound like it'll be a recipe for disaster though. All it would take is one premade 4 man group, or god forbid an 8 man group, to ruin the match. It's the only thing I'm concerned about because getting trashed by a coordinated 8 man ballgroup would just make nobody want to play anymore.

There likely wont be an 8 man ball group, because queues are limited to 4 players but the concern is still there nonetheless.

However there was a mention of limited lives in the 4v4 game mode as it's mean to be competitive so the team who dominates will likely end the match early anyways, and due to it having an MMR unlike 8v8, the "noob" players are likely going to have no MMR at all and not get put in the same queue as the coordinated players.

My only concern is 8v8 with 4 man groups coordinating though, sounds like a recipe for disaster, I think all BGs should have strict mmr

Stamicka · September 10

Estin wrote: »

I don't know about 8v8, but you can queue for 4v4 in a group of 4. You can pause the livestream at 42:32 when Brian had the group finder up and see that it allows for groups up to 4. Mixing solo and group queues does sound like it'll be a recipe for disaster though. All it would take is one premade 4 man group, or god forbid an 8 man group, to ruin the match. It's the only thing I'm concerned about because getting trashed by a coordinated 8 man ballgroup would just make nobody want to play anymore.

Yea, there's still definitely going to be issues with this, but since the BG community is so small, dividing up the queues further would also cause issues. I'm worried about heal stacking in it's current state, but we will see.

Anachronian · September 10

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

This is problematic, given that putting group ques into PVP alongside solo players will end up with heavily imbalanced matches, and will likely lead to the mode being even less friendly to new players than beforehand.
Groups in PVP in general are imbalanced and generally overpowered compared to solo, especially random solos, so this will only cause more grief for new players and cause them to abandon the mode faster.

React · September 10

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

Thanks for the info!

Sidewaves89 · September 11

@ZOS_Kevin is there a chance that with this new queues player who queued solo in 8v8 will end up fighting against two 4 ppl premades?

Fischblut · September 11

I always queue solo. Thank you for keeping option for solo queue in new BG system as well

I was afraid that I would need to search for group before queue, which would make playing BGs impossible. While I would love to be in more organized group, I've never seen a single positive chat interaction in BGs during years, so long time ago I started to hide the chat completely when in match

I also play ranked PvP in GW2, and chat situation is even worse there - you can even see what enemy players say to each other if you're near them

When people are toxic to their less experienced team members, it feels so awkward to witness

And there is certain mode in which I can't even participate if I don't form a group first (daily/monthly tournaments).

However, I always loved the fact that there are only 2 teams in PvP there. It's nice to finally get 2 teams PvP in ESO!

Aurielle · September 11

Anachronian wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

This is problematic, given that putting group ques into PVP alongside solo players will end up with heavily imbalanced matches, and will likely lead to the mode being even less friendly to new players than beforehand.
Groups in PVP in general are imbalanced and generally overpowered compared to solo, especially random solos, so this will only cause more grief for new players and cause them to abandon the mode faster.

Precisely. I posted this fairly old video in another thread, but this is what happens when optimized, coordinated groups of four players are allowed to queue alongside casual solo players in low MMR environments:

https://youtu.be/LG-cjTYaMH0

As the video demonstrates, solo / uncoordinated players going up against coordinated premade groups in BGs will often just stop playing or leave, because there's no point. The Pit Daemons in the first clip quickly stopped feeding the pet-stacking werewolf premade and sat in spawn until it was over. The Fire Drakes did the same thing against the same pet-stacking WW premade in the second clip. The premade group got the vast majority of its kills from the one lone player on the Pit Daemons team that tried in vain to play against them, and the various others who joined the match and left when they saw they were up against a practically immortal pet-stacking WW premade.

@ZOS_Kevin , I hope the team rethinks the decision to mix group and solo queues, especially in the MMR-free casual 8v8 mode. Premade groups and "casual" are incongruous terms when it comes to BGs.

Luke_Flamesword · September 11

It sucks. I don't want play with premades as PUG player. It's like when you want relax playing casual football game but you and other amateurs end against professional, coordinated soccer players who knows each other and have whole strategy against you.

There was solo and group queue for a reason. Do we really need this path of pain, where we need months or years of bad experiences before there will be SAME conclusion - that we need seperate queues?

Effect will be as always - many players will try BGS once and won't back ever because of trauma. And then we will talk about not splitting players because there are not enough of them playing it, but it will natural if you create environment where premades can SMASH some randoms. I have enough frustration in RL, I don't need to feel angry because my team of randoms is hopeless against premade group and I only waste my time...

Marronsuisse · September 11

Ooof I really don't want to be in a PUG playing against a coordinated group on comms in BGs. I do that enough in Cyro, lol. That's one of the few things I prefer about BGs compared to Cyrodiil; currently if you're in a random group of solos, you know you're also playing against a random group of solos (probably).

Moonspawn · September 11

This is probably our last chance to make battlegrounds popular... and you're actually forcing solos to go against premades. Please don't make such a crude mistake. 8v8 obviously needs to be solo only.

cozmic72 · September 11

Any mention of fixing voice chat so you only hear your team and not random people in other matches?

Moonspawn · September 11

Ideally there would be 3 queues. 8v8 solo only, 4v4 solo only, and ''4v4 group''. Also, allow for the possibility to queue for all 3 at the same time. This way, most people would avoid the ''4v4 group'' and queue for the other two. Everyone would be happy.

Mrk · September 11

Anachronian wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

This is problematic, given that putting group ques into PVP alongside solo players will end up with heavily imbalanced matches, and will likely lead to the mode being even less friendly to new players than beforehand.
Groups in PVP in general are imbalanced and generally overpowered compared to solo, especially random solos, so this will only cause more grief for new players and cause them to abandon the mode faster.

I agree, there should be different queques for solo and group players like the system now, aswell different ranking systems. Most bg players right now queque as solo and any 3-4 man organized group will have an easy win over solo uncoordinated players. If this remain the same solo players will have very bad experience and no chance to climb the ladder. Join as solo and be in a group of solos that fight another group of solos will also give more relevance to the individual skill of players in the match.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 11

Since 8v8s will be limited to groups of 4 queueing, I don't really think it will be that problematic. Most serious 4 man groups will simply queue for the competitive 4v4. The ones queuing for 8v8 are likely just there to screw around.

Plus, unless the 4-man is extremely well put together in terms of sets etc, being a 4man in an 8v8 will not be as big of an advantage as you might think.

That being said, I do think the 8v8 queue should be limited to solos/duos, as it's meant to be a bit more casual.

Theist_VII · September 11

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

…I think all BGs should have strict mmr

ESO does not have the PvP population to support a fully strict MMR, in reality what will happen is after a year, players at the top will play the exact same groups every time, and spend hours waiting to matchmake them.

Not to mention the stress of being forced into competitive lobbies any time you want to play. You can’t be creative at the top because ESO is a game of math. The best of us know this.

Necrotech_Master · September 11

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Since 8v8s will be limited to groups of 4 queueing, I don't really think it will be that problematic. Most serious 4 man groups will simply queue for the competitive 4v4. The ones queuing for 8v8 are likely just there to screw around.

Plus, unless the 4-man is extremely well put together in terms of sets etc, being a 4man in an 8v8 will not be as big of an advantage as you might think.

That being said, I do think the 8v8 queue should be limited to solos/duos, as it's meant to be a bit more casual.

this is how i would see it

most serious pvp groups would likely queue for the 4v4 competitive mode, if they were queueing for 8v8 its purely to troll less experienced players

darvaria · September 11

Aren't the group ques so long now, they allow premades vs solo's?

You're got to realize the competitive groups don't really want competition. They want to roll over a group of undergeared, uncordinated players. They will NOT want to run against a skilled group.

IDK how this will affect the 8v8. You might find the 4 man groups queing for the 4v4, UNLESS there is a long que. This would run smoother to have the premade group of 4 ONLY que for the 4v4.

8v8 should ONLY be solo ques. In this soloution, the premade 4 has a solution and the 8 solo que has a solution. I guess the solo's could look at the team and hope they team with a premade 4 man. If not, just slink around and let game end ... giving them no competition and no kills. Let the buzzer ring.

CameraBeardThePirate · September 11

darvaria wrote: »

You're got to realize the competitive groups don't really want competition. They want to roll over a group of undergeared, uncordinated players. They will NOT want to run against a skilled group.

This couldn't be more false lol. Coordinated groups do not want to sit in queue for 20 minutes just to faceroll a bunch of pugs. It's not fun, I can assure you.

acastanza_ESO · September 11

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, just checked with Brian to confirm. For 8v8 and 4v4 you can queue solo, duo, trio or full 4-person group but no more than that. So you cannot queue in 8v8 with an 8 stack team.

I would strongly urge you do reconsider any kind of grouped queueing for 8v8, it should be a casual mode. One coordinated comped group of 4 absolutely will steamroll a match if the other team didn't get placed with a similar group. 8v8 isn't ranked, it shouldn't allow group coordination at all.