Scribing... in my opinion it's a failure.

kookie · June 19

[Snip], I've been able to amass over 50 with just a few short farming sessions and grabbing nodes as I pass to do other things, and there's tons for sale ~60k. I also did a few stages of scribing quests on alts. They should, however, drop from ToT reward boxes as all other mats and transmutes do.

[Edited for bait]

BasP · June 19

While I appreciate the fact that there are thousands of combinations available already, I still find Scribing a bit limited in its current state. Let's say I want to Scribe a skill that grants me Minor Berserk on a character that wields bows or staffs - it's not possible, as the Berserk Affix Script can only be used on Traveling Knife and Smash. And it would have been nice if Wield Soul, for example, could have dealt Frost Damage (and the other damage types it's currently missing) as well.

Of course I get that this is just the starting point and that Scribing will be supported in future updates. I do hope that means that ZOS will not only add new Grimoires to the game, but will also allow more combinations between the existing Grimoires and Scripts. To be honest, I wouldn't mind it if every Focus, Signature and Affix Script was added to each Grimoire eventually.

Aurielle · June 19

kookie wrote: »

[Snip] I've been able to amass over 50 with just a few short farming sessions and grabbing nodes as I pass to do other things, and there's tons for sale ~60k. I also did a few stages of scribing quests on alts. They should, however, drop from ToT reward boxes as all other mats and transmutes do.

Not everyone has been as lucky as you. 60k gold is still way too expensive.

[Edited quote]

Elsonso · June 19

Aurielle wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

I don't have the chapter so no scribing, but judging from all the replies provided by the community managers, the devs focused more on how many combinations(Near 400 combinations, why? who will even see that?) they can implement instead of trying to make the system more effective at core.

I feel like it is another gear set dilemma, too many gear sets but only few that are useful. 4000 scribing combinations but not even 40 of them useful(judging by all the videos released by content creators).

The design thought process and structure by he devs need to change. Just adding more and more that are useless is not a good thing. Just make it simple and effective.

Less is more.

Don’t rely on content creators to tell you what to do… Look at your characters’ weaknesses, look at the more useless sets, and see if you figure out how scribing might be able to fill in the gaps.

Basically, this. I wouldn't necessarily say "useless sets" as much as "sets the align with the vision". I don't think there are "useless" sets. There are sets that don't align well with the vision, and player opinions about sets, and neither means that the set is useless.

Sadly, Scribing is so incomplete, that I am not sure I would even recommend looking at Scribing. Well, outside of the 11 very narrow use cases that it shipped with, of course. If someone is lucky to have a character that aligns well with one of those, certainly take a look. Scribing might be able to fill gaps if one of the grimoires can actually be used.

Given the lack of abundance in Ink, the experimentation will have to be from tool tips rather than using actual in-game numbers. Fortunately, this game is rather forgiving when it comes to gear. The game does not require perfection and optimal builds. Only players require that.

Elvenheart · June 19

I’ve already done my endeavors today and I didn’t do this one, but I think one of them was kill 40 enemies with scribed skills? Are there any scribed skills that will kill enemies pretty quickly in the course of normal play, at least as effective as the skills we would normally use? (Aka not going to Sentinel Docks for the weak zombies, but doing dailies, random dungeons, etc.)

Edited to add: I’m wondering for when the next time this endeavor comes up and there may not be any other better choices.

OtarTheMad · June 19

kookie wrote: »

[Snip], I've been able to amass over 50 with just a few short farming sessions and grabbing nodes as I pass to do other things, and there's tons for sale ~60k. I also did a few stages of scribing quests on alts. They should, however, drop from ToT reward boxes as all other mats and transmutes do.

Not everyone has good RNG. I’ve been running around the last few days and harvesting all nodes I see and killing everything in sight and I’ve only gotten 2 inks. Tons of mats though so that’s awesome but not what my goal is.

[Edited quote]

Lazarus_Rising · June 19

I think its good that they are careful with the implementation. If the skills were too strong then there would be chaos now. I say that not often but let ZOS cook. They need the data from players.

Tannus15 · June 19

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It really needs more content and a big buff. A lot of it is useless as it's mainly for utility or roleplay. Needs a lot more spells.

Just wanted to chime in here and remind folks that we will be supporting this feature over time, just like many of our other features. So if you don't see anything in the near 4000 possible combinations, we will have more coming. Feel free to sound off regarding what you would like to see in scribing support.

the ability to do damage would be nice.

Desiato · June 19

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Not everyone has good RNG. I’ve been running around the last few days and harvesting all nodes I see and killing everything in sight and I’ve only gotten 2 inks. Tons of mats though so that’s awesome but not what my goal is.

I would never consider obtaining ink this way. I would engage in an activity I enjoy more with rewards I can sell. There are countless ways to earn gold in ESO.

60k gold isn't really a lot for one who engages in the player economy. Chances are your craft bag is full of things you'll never use that can be sold for a decent amount.

divnyi · June 19

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Feel free to sound off regarding what you would like to see in scribing support.

Scribing ability is as good as scribing base skill is (targeting, range, animation, cast time etc).
Some base abilities are good, some are not.

More base abilities, or scripts that change how abilities work in considerable way. Or even weapon sets.

GuuMoonRyoung · June 19

ToRelax wrote: »

Being given the freedom to make less powerful choices is not a bad thing. It gives more options to anyone not focused on eking out as much power as possible while rewarding players for actually figuring stuff out. Both very much in line with ESO's design so far.

You know that this is not how majority of the players play games. We don't have time to theorycraft with less powerful choices, that is not how the world works anymore. The "freedom" you are talking about is a meaningless freedom and a waste of time.

Aurielle wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

I don't have the chapter so no scribing, but judging from all the replies provided by the community managers, the devs focused more on how many combinations(Near 400 combinations, why? who will even see that?) they can implement instead of trying to make the system more effective at core.

I feel like it is another gear set dilemma, too many gear sets but only few that are useful. 4000 scribing combinations but not even 40 of them useful(judging by all the videos released by content creators).

The design thought process and structure by he devs need to change. Just adding more and more that are useless is not a good thing. Just make it simple and effective.

Less is more.

Don’t rely on content creators to tell you what to do… Look at your characters’ weaknesses, look at the more useless sets, and see if you figure out how scribing might be able to fill in the gaps.

[Snip]

I also don't let content creators tell me what to do, I use their guides and the vast amount of info they provide as a reference. They are capable of providing vast range of info that you or me or any other normal players are incapable of amassing or even experimenting with. Their info are more valid than normal forum goers.

Look, I'm still experimenting with the system, even though access to ink is abysmal. I'm merely encouraging you to think outside the box before decrying the system useless. You haven't even played around with scribing yourself yet, and you stated "4000 scribing combinations but not even 40 of them useful (judging by all the videos released by content creators)" (emphasis added). Who cares what content creators think? They don't have all the answers all the time. There are literally thousands of possible combos, and not even people who make it their day job to "produce YouTube content" have fully explored what it has to offer. You could very well have a eureka moment and come up with something that works well for you and/or your group. I know I certainly have. What I'm running right now is something that I haven't seen any YouTuber talking about, and it's pretty darn effective at what it does, so...

The only thing that needs to change about this system right now is ink access. That's all. (Edit: Oh, and account-wide scripts would be great too -- or, alternatively, learned scripts available at the vendor at all times for alts). I do wish that more combinations were possible (seems silly to put limits on which scripts can be applied to certain grimoires), but I'm eager to see how the system evolves over time.

Again, I will reiterate, I don't let content creators make me do things, I use the vast amount of info as reference and they do provide a vast amount of info on various system of the game because that is literally their bread and butter. And all the info I have found in their scribing info dump makes me believe that out of 4K combinations, only 40 are useful.

There will never be a eureka moment in this system because it is so shallow and only banks toward "X amount of combination! much number! much WOW!". The entire system literally feels like it has been designed specifically for content creators so that they can come up with many many youtube videos to monetize.

Hell, even your favorite pvp scribing ability was mentioned by every single content creators I check up on, in their "top 20 new and amazing scribing skills!" videos. So yeah, I feel that this system is for content creators. I did not want to go there but I had to.

[Edited quote]

Aurielle · June 19

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Being given the freedom to make less powerful choices is not a bad thing. It gives more options to anyone not focused on eking out as much power as possible while rewarding players for actually figuring stuff out. Both very much in line with ESO's design so far.

You know that this is not how majority of the players play games. We don't have time to theorycraft with less powerful choices, that is not how the world works anymore. The "freedom" you are talking about is a meaningless freedom and a waste of time.

Aurielle wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

I don't have the chapter so no scribing, but judging from all the replies provided by the community managers, the devs focused more on how many combinations(Near 400 combinations, why? who will even see that?) they can implement instead of trying to make the system more effective at core.

I feel like it is another gear set dilemma, too many gear sets but only few that are useful. 4000 scribing combinations but not even 40 of them useful(judging by all the videos released by content creators).

The design thought process and structure by he devs need to change. Just adding more and more that are useless is not a good thing. Just make it simple and effective.

Less is more.

Don’t rely on content creators to tell you what to do… Look at your characters’ weaknesses, look at the more useless sets, and see if you figure out how scribing might be able to fill in the gaps.

[Snip]

I also don't let content creators tell me what to do, I use their guides and the vast amount of info they provide as a reference. They are capable of providing vast range of info that you or me or any other normal players are incapable of amassing or even experimenting with. Their info are more valid than normal forum goers.

Look, I'm still experimenting with the system, even though access to ink is abysmal. I'm merely encouraging you to think outside the box before decrying the system useless. You haven't even played around with scribing yourself yet, and you stated "4000 scribing combinations but not even 40 of them useful (judging by all the videos released by content creators)" (emphasis added). Who cares what content creators think? They don't have all the answers all the time. There are literally thousands of possible combos, and not even people who make it their day job to "produce YouTube content" have fully explored what it has to offer. You could very well have a eureka moment and come up with something that works well for you and/or your group. I know I certainly have. What I'm running right now is something that I haven't seen any YouTuber talking about, and it's pretty darn effective at what it does, so...

The only thing that needs to change about this system right now is ink access. That's all. (Edit: Oh, and account-wide scripts would be great too -- or, alternatively, learned scripts available at the vendor at all times for alts). I do wish that more combinations were possible (seems silly to put limits on which scripts can be applied to certain grimoires), but I'm eager to see how the system evolves over time.

Again, I will reiterate, I don't let content creators make me do things, I use the vast amount of info as reference and they do provide a vast amount of info on various system of the game because that is literally their bread and butter. And all the info I have found in their scribing info dump makes me believe that out of 4K combinations, only 40 are useful.

There will never be a eureka moment in this system because it is so shallow and only banks toward "X amount of combination! much number! much WOW!". The entire system literally feels like it has been designed specifically for content creators so that they can come up with many many youtube videos to monetize.

Hell, even your favorite pvp scribing ability was mentioned by every single content creators I check up on, in their "top 20 new and amazing scribing skills!" videos. So yeah, I feel that this system is for content creators. I did not want to go there but I had to.

Curious, where did I mention my “favourite pvp scribing ability” in this thread? You talking about the DW skill I’ve started using in place of javelin on my Stamplar? Because that’s not it… My favourite skill that I’ve scribed so far (and the set I’m using it with) has not been mentioned by any YouTubers that I know of.

The system is only shallow if you chase metas. Always remember that content creators (especially in the PVP realm) are primarily focused on 1vX. If your objective is 1vX, then yes, scribing is limited, as there are usually stronger options in class and weapon tool kits. Most PVPers don’t 1vX, though. We generally tend to play in organized / semi-organized guild groups, and scribing has opened up many fun and interesting possibilities for us.

But sure, if you want to reduce scribing to the 40 useful combinations YouTubers have identified without even trying it out yourself first, then go for it. Just know that if you don’t experiment with the system when you do eventually buy Gold Road, you might miss out on something fun to use.

[Edited quote]

xylena_lazarow · June 19

ToRelax wrote: »

Being given the freedom to make less powerful choices is not a bad thing

Less powerful should still have a powerful niche somewhere though. A lot of these scribbles are just awful. What's the niche of 2h Smash? Being a slower weaker version of an already existing 2h skill? If you have the freedom to run something as awful as 2h Smash, it's because the content you're doing is too easy for your choices to matter.

kookie wrote: »

[Snip]

NO

[Edited quote]

ToRelax · June 20

GuuMoonRyoung wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Being given the freedom to make less powerful choices is not a bad thing. It gives more options to anyone not focused on eking out as much power as possible while rewarding players for actually figuring stuff out. Both very much in line with ESO's design so far.

You know that this is not how majority of the players play games. We don't have time to theorycraft with less powerful choices, that is not how the world works anymore. The "freedom" you are talking about is a meaningless freedom and a waste of time.

I didn't think I'd see the day adult players ask to be told how to play. If theorycrafting is not for you, copy someone else's build and stop trying to take away parts of the game others enjoy.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Being given the freedom to make less powerful choices is not a bad thing

Less powerful should still have a powerful niche somewhere though. A lot of these scribbles are just awful. What's the niche of 2h Smash? Being a slower weaker version of an already existing 2h skill? If you have the freedom to run something as awful as 2h Smash, it's because the content you're doing is too easy for your choices to matter.

The grimoires should be balanced. That was about the desire to have every possible combination be competitive, too.

rothan117 · June 20

Given the absurdly low drop rate on ink, trying to experiment with combinations to find things that might be even marginally useful is pretty much not going to happen. That makes the system a failure regardless of whether most of the combinations are meh at best. I have played 8 hours today, questing in West Weald, killing every mob I see, harvesting every node. Not a single ink all day. I have gotten the odd drop here and there, including doubles due to CP but not enough to do much of anything with given it takes 3 inks to try one combination. I have abandoned scribing at this point and just put the inks I happen to get on the guild trader. And it would seem a lot of others are doing the same, the price has dropped quite a bit and they do not sell particularly quickly, which given their rarity would be surprising if a lot of people were actively pursuing the system.

Elvenheart · June 20

rothan117 wrote: »

Given the absurdly low drop rate on ink, trying to experiment with combinations to find things that might be even marginally useful is pretty much not going to happen. That makes the system a failure regardless of whether most of the combinations are meh at best. I have played 8 hours today, questing in West Weald, killing every mob I see, harvesting every node. Not a single ink all day. I have gotten the odd drop here and there, including doubles due to CP but not enough to do much of anything with given it takes 3 inks to try one combination. I have abandoned scribing at this point and just put the inks I happen to get on the guild trader. And it would seem a lot of others are doing the same, the price has dropped quite a bit and they do not sell particularly quickly, which given their rarity would be surprising if a lot of people were actively pursuing the system.

I’m afraid you are correct. I would love it if someone would come into this tooic and tell us about all the theory crafting they have done after harvesting their ink or buying it from guild traders, but I don’t remember reading any posts like that at all.

TaSheen · June 20

Elvenheart wrote: »

rothan117 wrote: »

Given the absurdly low drop rate on ink, trying to experiment with combinations to find things that might be even marginally useful is pretty much not going to happen. That makes the system a failure regardless of whether most of the combinations are meh at best. I have played 8 hours today, questing in West Weald, killing every mob I see, harvesting every node. Not a single ink all day. I have gotten the odd drop here and there, including doubles due to CP but not enough to do much of anything with given it takes 3 inks to try one combination. I have abandoned scribing at this point and just put the inks I happen to get on the guild trader. And it would seem a lot of others are doing the same, the price has dropped quite a bit and they do not sell particularly quickly, which given their rarity would be surprising if a lot of people were actively pursuing the system.

I’m afraid you are correct. I would love it if someone would come into this tooic and tell us about all the theory crafting they have done after harvesting their ink or buying it from guild traders, but I don’t remember reading any posts like that at all.

My guess is anyone who's done that (on PTS maybe?) is not going to spread it around....

Eventually the streamers may provide - if you sub to their channels.