Scribing... in my opinion it's a failure.

xylena_lazarow

@ZOS_Kevin please remove the cast time from 2h Smash. Nobody is going to use this.

EF321 wrote: »

Stun + Immobilize makes it AOE Fossilize

Which is pretty bad considering its high cost, short range, clumsy cast time, weak passives, and zero damage.

Tyrion87

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It really needs more content and a big buff. A lot of it is useless as it's mainly for utility or roleplay. Needs a lot more spells.

Just wanted to chime in here and remind folks that we will be supporting this feature over time, just like many of our other features. So if you don't see anything in the near 4000 possible combinations, we will have more coming. Feel free to sound off regarding what you would like to see in scribing support.

I think that people would appreciate if you tweaked the combinations and/or numbers on the skills (grimoires) we already have before introducing the new ones (unless you had that in mind as well). What is the point of having almost 4000 useless combinations? Make at least some of the combinations viable and worth the effort in end game content. And also let us customize the existing grimoires more/better, by e.g. allowing to use Flame/Frost focus script or Prophecy/Savagery affix script on Soul Wield. Just an example.

FafiQ_xP

I think its feature that has lot of potential, but yes in current state it feels kind of meh. However I found some really fun combinations and I hope they keep work on this as they promised. What I personally would like to see is more customizable visuals like more styles and maybe color picker for skills.

AvalonRanger

The most sad aspect of scribing mech is narrow view point of ZOS's game design.
They still keep doing "character meta build base game design" and still grinding
game contents over and over. Disrespect player's time and chance, and let them
consume huge wasting time.

Well....

Despite of great environment design work for the Elder Scrolls world, they don't have
sense to make the game design great again. I really love the world of ESO, and I hate it as
action game player.

DigiAngel

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It really needs more content and a big buff. A lot of it is useless as it's mainly for utility or roleplay. Needs a lot more spells.

Just wanted to chime in here and remind folks that we will be supporting this feature over time, just like many of our other features. So if you don't see anything in the near 4000 possible combinations, we will have more coming. Feel free to sound off regarding what you would like to see in scribing support.

A lot less grinding.

carlos424

Sarannah wrote: »

After playing a bit with scribing I also think it is a failure. Not just with alts, but in general as well. (scripts should be accountwide, and I am really disapppointed yesterday's patch didn't provide that.)

The skills(grimoires) are too specific and tied to a certain weapon. You are forced to choose that specific grimoire, even if it is not what you want to use as a base form grimoire. I wanted to make a sword/shield aoe pull, but unless I am doing something wrong, this isn't possible. As the base sword/shield grimoire is already a single target by itself. While pull removed itself from the list when using the soulline scribed grimoires.

The way scribing now looks to me is like it is just 12 or so new skills(grimoires) for which we can choose the damage types or specials. Which is bad, as it feels ZOS could have just added another skillline by themselves.

Something else I noticed is: Why would I ever choose a scribed skill over a class skills?? Class skills can always do the same or more than a scribed skill, but have the added benefit of the class passives which affect it. Either granting more utility or more damage at it's base. So scribed skills, to me, feel like watered down weak skills. Personally I suggest adding a scribing skillline, which grants passives for slotting/using scribed skills. Maybe even granting the ability to change single target grimoires to aoe grimoire's and vice versa.

To me, right now, there is no point to use scribing at all.

PS: ZOS needs to add a base attack form for every grimoire! Close magic/weapon dmg, ranged magic/weapon damage, and single target/aoe versions of all of those. Scribing should have launched with atleast 8 grimoires for every available skillline.
PPS: I'm not too worried about the ink, but ZOS does need to add a safeguard to ink drops so players can't have dryspills where ink doesn't drop for days.(forced ink drop every two hours, counting from the last ink drop)

They are so worried about having a skill be even slightly more powerful than an existing one, that they err on the side of less power. The problem with this strategy is that you lose all the excitement from the players. What incentive is there to interact with the new system? Imo you would want to have skills at least on par with existing skills, or even slightly better, in some cases. I would think this would keep everyone engaged and excited, as well as be a good selling point/incentive to buy the chapter. As it is, with added cast times, lower power, and low ink drops rates, the incentive to use the system (at least from a damage dealing pov) is quite low.

tomofhyrule

I had to laugh at this line on the quest. But this tells us what the goal is - it's not supposed to be meta or 'better' than anything else. It's supposed to be fun.

And if you look at it from that side, it is.

Yes, ink drops could use a buff. I did go on a farming run yesterday because of the weekly though and I got some. I'm also running alts though the quests because that's 12 inks an alt. I also checked things out on PTS to see the animations so I don't have to experiment with limited ink on live. But again, I'm not trying to make something meta-defining, I just want something fun.

I wanted so bad to use that shield toss in all of my builds because I love the concept. But taunt? I've got Inner Fire (that gives a synergy to allies and uses mag instead of stam) and Frost Clench (that also uses mag and gives Maim as a debuff) for range and Pierce Armor for melee (that's way cheaper and also gives both Breaches, neither of which shield toss can't do). Pull? Yeah, shield toss may outclass Silver Leash, but DK Chains is better than both. The only potential thing you have that makes it useful in content is the ranged interrupt if I'm on dual SnB, which is kinda niche in content (I have gotten use out of it in fights like Sarydil where I use Vateshran to pull things in but still want an interrupt on, but that's also totally possible with an ice stick backbar).
So yeah, it may be a bit disappointing that the skill I wanted most was pretty well useless for me. I think a lot of the scripts could be enabled on other grimoires since there are obvious holes in places too.

But... this game has more than one thing to do, and I don't need to be kitted up for high-level play all the time. And let me tell you, when I snuck up behind a dude in a delve and yeeted him off a cliff thanks to shield toss knockback, I had to stop playing for about two minutes because I was laughing so hard. That's exactly what the point is - to have fun. And now, that's my goal: to make skills for my characters that are fun and fit with their backstory.

My main is Captain America-ing mobs off of cliffs. My secondary found out that throwing birds at people wasn't cool enough, so now he throws bears at them as well (though Trample could probably use a shorter cast time). I love the animation of the destro staff and bow skills. And things will happen as they happen.

...although I am hoping we get to see our bork borks get some love as well. I do keep my secondary's transformation unmorphed since he should have greyish-brown fur even though it's not as effective, so I'd love a style to choose his fur color. And it'd be fun to add more skills to that line, considering werewolves are pretty close to memes even in overland.

Skander

It's one of the biggest P2W updates for PvP

Veinblood1965

I figured it would not be OP. A lot of the new sets make running content that just a year or two was difficult now are cheese. I've got a Mag/Sorc that used to struggle on a few bosses when solo and recently with upgraded gear breezed through them like they were cheese with a hot knife in the middle. Any more damage added and the newer dungeons and trials are going to have to be so tough there will be no room for new people to run them.

I'm sure although not going to OP an extra 10 percent to most setups will be about the average which is still an improvement. As far as the grind for inks, that I agree is very unfun.

Scaletho

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Scribing has been around for two weeks now, but I still can't find a single useful skill to create it. I'm serious. It looks so weak and so uninteresting. I don't even want to describe it. I don’t want to seem toxic, but the system that was supposed to diversify the combat system now (and I hope that it will be finalized) looks no more useful than companions. That is, just simple content for casuals.

Scribing is another example of low gaming quality of this Gold Road. Aside with the Ithelia character design low standard, scribing seems to give the sad conclusion that ESO is losing force.

derkaiserliche

The skills are pretty well balanced imo. They werent meant to give you way stronger skills than your current ones. They are mostly meant to give you a possibility to add certain dmg types to your existing build. (For example crafting a poison dmg skill for your poison dmg buff set or an ice skill for your frostbite set)

Of course they cant be too strong since it would completly break the game otherwise and people would run around with only op scribing skills

EdjeSwift

As has been mentioned multiple times now, I feel like Scribing delivered exactly what was intended.

Fun.

I, personally, am super pleased that Scribing isn't pushed as a meta score pushing requirement. Instead it's there for fun and silliness a la @tomofhyrule . I'd be willing to bet some of the people here who are complaining about Scribing being underpowered are the same who complained about the Arcanist being OP or whatever else complaint of the week is popular. Sometimes we have to remember that this is a game and not everyone wants to be a bleeding edge score pusher and something just want to hurl a shield at an enemy and pull them in close for a bash or knock em into a cavern.

As for the complaints on ink, they're rather shortsighted IMO, given that by the time Scribing releases the next wave of skills and abilities we'll have a glut of ink; it's not like it stops dropping after we make our skills and do other content.

Araneae6537

Agreed, @EdjeSwift
I often feel like everything is going to either be derided as OP P2W or useless, and people are wither already done with the content and bored or else it is such a grind (things liked behind RNG I understand can be frustrating, but if so long as it’s something one can make consistent progress towards — so in this case ink could potentially be a problem but scripts are not so far as I can see)

Necrotech_Master

EdjeSwift wrote: »

As for the complaints on ink, they're rather shortsighted IMO, given that by the time Scribing releases the next wave of skills an abilities we'll have a glut of ink; it's not like it stops dropping after make our skills and do other content.

personally i would rather there be too much ink than too little

right now ink is so scarce its hard to even finish the achievement for scribing each skill once, let alone doing that on more than 1 character

if the ink drops dont improve, after i finish scribing all the skills at least once on my main, im literally not going to use the system and just sell all the ink i get

its hard to have fun with a system when you cant even use it

Sarannah

Just wanted to clarify with my previous post, as I did not mention it and quite a few replies touched upon this: I do NOT want overpowered or too powerful skills. But I do want to be able to create the skills I want to create, and even that is not possible now. Both at the base level(grimoires) as at script level(scripts removed from certain scribe options/grimoires), as it is all too restricted/too particular.

PS: Cast times are also a big NO to me.

Gaebriel0410

FelisCatus wrote: »

A lot of it is useless as it's mainly for utility or roleplay. Needs a lot more spells.

I disagree entirely, since this is a roleplaying game, the above sounds absolutely perfect to me.

Systems like this should never be judged purely on top endgame dps or worse, "parsing".It doesn't matter if scribing skills will be included in the meta flavour of the month, since no player is obliged to abide by that, and neither is it needed in the vast majority of content.

Instead the system should serve to give players more options to design their characters according to certain themes, playstyles or flavours they like.So to me this is a pretty good start.

We definitely need wayyyyyyyyy more ink though, that is the one thing about it I do heavily dislike, as we should be able to casually, frivolously throw ink at stuff only to change it 2 mins later.

shadyjane62

The only script I'm interested in is the one that makes me immune to the "stuck in combat" feature. Not calling it a bug, after all these years we have to consider it is a feature.

Nharimlur_Finor

The big negative for me is that all PvE areas are now filled with rabid PvP players literally pouncing on every available node in the hunt for 'ink'.

But look at the fun we're having...

Quethrosar

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It really needs more content and a big buff. A lot of it is useless as it's mainly for utility or roleplay. Needs a lot more spells.

Just wanted to chime in here and remind folks that we will be supporting this feature over time, just like many of our other features. So if you don't see anything in the near 4000 possible combinations, we will have more coming. Feel free to sound off regarding what you would like to see in scribing support.

instant cast that do = damage to other skills we use so increased damage is not a thing, just utilities we can add to it. for example barbed trap could be replaced with something different in alot of builds. we could add the minor force to a skill and some kind of damage, not need to wait for a monster to step on it. stuff like this. but it needs to be instant cast like most skills we use.

i11ionward

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It really needs more content and a big buff. A lot of it is useless as it's mainly for utility or roleplay. Needs a lot more spells.

Just wanted to chime in here and remind folks that we will be supporting this feature over time, just like many of our other features. So if you don't see anything in the near 4000 possible combinations, we will have more coming. Feel free to sound off regarding what you would like to see in scribing support.

Scribing lacks variety, everything is too much standardized.

For example Dazing Soul has a 10 second Major Vitality duration, this is normal if the focus script is Stun. But if the focus script is spammable, then 10 seconds is a lot in my opinion. At the same time, for the focus script Stun, the duration of Major Brutality and Major Sorcery is 10 seconds not enough, I think it should have been 20 seconds. The duration of buffs should be based on the availability and usefulness of the buff, and not for all affixes the same. I hope you get my point.

EdjeSwift

i11ionward wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It really needs more content and a big buff. A lot of it is useless as it's mainly for utility or roleplay. Needs a lot more spells.

Just wanted to chime in here and remind folks that we will be supporting this feature over time, just like many of our other features. So if you don't see anything in the near 4000 possible combinations, we will have more coming. Feel free to sound off regarding what you would like to see in scribing support.

Scribing lacks variety, everything is too much standardized.

For example Dazing Soul has a 10 second Major Vitality duration, this is normal if the focus script is Stun. But if the focus script is spammable, then 10 seconds is a lot in my opinion. At the same time, for the focus script Stun, the duration of Major Brutality and Major Sorcery is 10 seconds not enough, I think it should have been 20 seconds. The duration of buffs should be based on the availability and usefulness of the buff, and not for all affixes the same. I hope you get my point.

It's skill determinate, not affix. For example, Elemental Explosion is a 20 second Brutality/Sorcery while Wield Soul is 10. For the most part affixes are at 20 seconds. Wield Soul, Shield Throw, and Mender's Bond being the two exceptions at 10 seconds.

Pelanora

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It really needs more content and a big buff. A lot of it is useless as it's mainly for utility or roleplay. Needs a lot more spells.

Just wanted to chime in here and remind folks that we will be supporting this feature over time, just like many of our other features. So if you don't see anything in the near 4000 possible combinations, we will have more coming. Feel free to sound off regarding what you would like to see in scribing support.

I really think you need to stop saying nearly 4000 combos, because it's very obvious to us how limited the ways of creating a scribed skill is. Rules and limits everywhere.

No limits in the enchants and traits for weapons and armour.

Necrotech_Master

Pelanora wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It really needs more content and a big buff. A lot of it is useless as it's mainly for utility or roleplay. Needs a lot more spells.

Just wanted to chime in here and remind folks that we will be supporting this feature over time, just like many of our other features. So if you don't see anything in the near 4000 possible combinations, we will have more coming. Feel free to sound off regarding what you would like to see in scribing support.

I really think you need to stop saying nearly 4000 combos, because it's very obvious to us how limited the ways of creating a scribed skill is. Rules and limits everywhere.

No limits in the enchants and traits for weapons and armour.

i think mathematically, 4000 possible combos is right, 11 grimoires and each have about a dozen different possible focus, signature, and affix scripts available

however, i would agree that the difference between many of those are virtually none, like when it comes to affix scripts, these just make it apply a different buff or debuff, but you cant say combine 2 different buffs or debuffs, or there might not be exactly the exact type of focus, signature, or affix script available on the skill you want to scribe

when looking at a subset of the system (1 scribed skill) it does feel a lot more limiting than if you had access to all of the available scripts

EdjeSwift

Pelanora wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

FelisCatus wrote: »

It really needs more content and a big buff. A lot of it is useless as it's mainly for utility or roleplay. Needs a lot more spells.

Just wanted to chime in here and remind folks that we will be supporting this feature over time, just like many of our other features. So if you don't see anything in the near 4000 possible combinations, we will have more coming. Feel free to sound off regarding what you would like to see in scribing support.

I really think you need to stop saying nearly 4000 combos, because it's very obvious to us how limited the ways of creating a scribed skill is. Rules and limits everywhere.

No limits in the enchants and traits for weapons and armour.

Just running basic numbers it is a total of 3192 combinations, so it's closer to 3k than 4k, but I'll blame that on marketing/balancing that didn't properly adjust the numbers.

Smash having the most number of combinations possible at 384 and Wield Soul being the least customizable at 210. Unfortunately, balancing requires limitations, if this were not an MMORPG I'm sure it would be less limited, but due to the fact that everything must be balanced properly, restrictions must be applied.

As for your comment on limits on traits and enchants, they are already limited by what we have available from the trait/enchant crafting.

The math behind it:

As you can see each skill is broken down by what attachments can be attached. The total combinations are based upon basic permutation calculation of (Column Focus)*(Column Signature-1)*(Column Affix-2)

master_vanargand

Scribing is 8 great skills and 3992 trash.
It's especially bad that Shield Throw doesn't have Minor Brittle, and that Wield Soul's Brutality and Sorcery only lasts a very short 10 seconds.

OtarTheMad

I wouldn’t mind Scribing if the ink wasn’t such a pain to get. I like that it is fun, I find some of the spells fill in some gaps with Necro, which speaks more about the state of Necro but that’s another story.

They need to make ink easier to get, fine if it’s still hard to obtain but not as bad as it is.

MidniteOwl1913

fred4 wrote: »

This is what is called "balanced". If a new thing is truly useful, part of the population will call it "pay to win". I agree that scribing is "meh" overall. It very much depends who you are, what content you play, and whether you play all the classes. I first started looking into options for my PvP nightblade and couldn't find anything useful. Part of this is down to IMO poor implementation of skills. I found issues with Vault. I didn't find the targeting of Warding Soul appropriate to the skill, thus crippling it. I found no clear use case of Wield Soul as a damage skill either, nor was Traveling Knife any good on my nightblade. However, I then came up with a build concept for a PvP sorc, where Shocking Soul plays a definite role. Leave it to that class to make use of a foreign / weapon skill. 1 out of 5 success rate for me personally, then, so far.

Skills that I know others use include Ulfsild's Contingency, e.g. to generate burst, such as for bombing. I would also say that the kockback skills must be useful to disperse ball groups. I'm sure you could knock half a group off a keep wall with that 12m AOE knockback option from the destro skill.

Whenever the word balance passes anyone from ZOS' lips I cringe. The number of things ruined in the name of "balance", shudder. And it's a neverending project, there is never balance! Nothing good ever comes from its pursuit in my opinion.

Zodiarkslayer

Back in January, when they disclosed the nature of this years chapter and its main feature, I made the decision to not pre order for the first time ever.

My reasoning is still the same. ESO has no clear rules on power budget. They are really murky. Especially for healing.

TaSheen

LaintalAy wrote: »

The big negative for me is that all PvE areas are now filled with rabid PvP players literally pouncing on every available node in the hunt for 'ink'.

But look at the fun we're having...

I haven't found that to be the case on either PC megaserver. I've done the weekly (harvest 100 nodes) on 4 mains out of 8, and haven't had any issues finding nodes - and no, I'm not doing surveys. I'll do at least two of the others tomorrow, maybe all 4 if I don't get interrupted.

LukosCreyden

The lack of meaningful passives in the Soul Magic skill line makes those scribing skills inherently weaker than other alternatives. The equivalent of using un-morphed destruction staff skills without passives unlocked.
Soul Magic needs passives.

Also, having ink be a required resource and making it very rare was a mistake.
I already have to farm for all the other components, but I also have to farm for materials to be able to test them?
Nah, this just makes me not want to use the system at all. I wouldn't be missing much, as I am struggling to come up with any skills that could possibly be an improvement or at least an equal to what I am already using.