master_vanargand wrote: »

Class skills are better than weapon skills. That's all.

master_vanargand wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

And to illustrate my point why NB doesn't need more than 2 skills for most scenarios, here's a very strong dueling NB build fully buffed without Continuous Attack:



Here is the tooltip for Dizzying Swing on that NB build:



Here is the tooltip for Concealed Weapon on that same build:



Guess what? Concealed tooltip isn't buffed by that 10% extra damage after leaving stealth yet. So add 10% of that 15.4k to the 15.4k tooltip, and we get 16.9k final Concealed value.

16.6k Dizzy vs 16.9k Concealed. Dizzy was the hardest hitting single target damage ability in the game until this patch. Concealed hits harder, doesn't come with a 0.8s cast time, and gives a more useful buff (Minor Expedition as oppose to a snare). Then you look at Spectral Bow's tooltip:



28.6k damage, which under Battle Spirit is 14.3k. Every 5s you can use this proc if you light attack weave, and did I mention it also gives you 300 WD/SD at full stacks, that also buffs Concealed tooltip? Let's also not forget the incredibly cheap 75 ult that makes all your attacks deal 20% more damage to a target. NB legitimately does not need more than 2 skills to kill people lol.

The only reliable counter for NB this patch is blocking. If you can permablock, you can negate most of its damage. It won't be easy though, because a good NB will have the tools to counter that. You could also put out so much pressure that the NB can't go offensive, but the NB can still crutch on Cloak and Shade. They'd just have to drop Phantasmal Escape to make room for Shade and they can kite indefinitely. After all, that Siphoning Attack buff has literally allowed them to run with ZERO regen and still almost never run out of sustain lol.

What he really wants to say isn't "Dizzy VS Concealed".
He criticizes "Concealed Weapon" as being too powerful and just wants nerfs.
He just wants to increase the tooltip value in sets (+20%) and incite criticism.
If just talking about "Dizzy VS Concealed", it's fine to be naked without any equipment, right?

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

And to illustrate my point why NB doesn't need more than 2 skills for most scenarios, here's a very strong dueling NB build fully buffed without Continuous Attack:

Here is the tooltip for Dizzying Swing on that NB build:



Here is the tooltip for Concealed Weapon on that same build:



Guess what? Concealed tooltip isn't buffed by that 10% extra damage after leaving stealth yet. So add 10% of that 15.4k to the 15.4k tooltip, and we get 16.9k final Concealed value.

16.6k Dizzy vs 16.9k Concealed. Dizzy was the hardest hitting single target damage ability in the game until this patch. Concealed hits harder, doesn't come with a 0.8s cast time, and gives a more useful buff (Minor Expedition as oppose to a snare). Then you look at Spectral Bow's tooltip:



28.6k damage, which under Battle Spirit is 14.3k. Every 5s you can use this proc if you light attack weave, and did I mention it also gives you 300 WD/SD at full stacks, that also buffs Concealed tooltip? Let's also not forget the incredibly cheap 75 ult that makes all your attacks deal 20% more damage to a target. NB legitimately does not need more than 2 skills to kill people lol.

The only reliable counter for NB this patch is blocking. If you can permablock, you can negate most of its damage. It won't be easy though, because a good NB will have the tools to counter that. You could also put out so much pressure that the NB can't go offensive, but the NB can still crutch on Cloak and Shade. They'd just have to drop Phantasmal Escape to make room for Shade and they can kite indefinitely. After all, that Siphoning Attack buff has literally allowed them to run with ZERO regen and still almost never run out of sustain lol.

The formulas on that website are notorious for having bugs.
Unless you show us the actual game screen, we can't tell if your information is correct.

It's only bugged for some tooltips. The stats should be fairly accurate for the most part.

But since you asked, here's the NB build on live:



Max SD and mag:



Max weapon critical, crit damage (no Minor Brittle) and base pen:




Here's the NB build copied to the exact detail on Editor:







So on the live server I have 31249 max mag, 6357 spell damage, 11813 base pen, 85% crit damage, 39.4% crit chance. On the Editor I have 31248 max mag, 6360 spell damage, 11813 base pen, 85% crit damage, 39.4% crit chance. Literally identical stats lol.

Concealed tooltip on live:



Dizzy tooltip on live:


The tooltip on Editor is lower though, so that's probably the bug you're talking about. Regardless, we're comparing tooltips between Dizzy and Concealed, and you can see that Concealed has a bigger tooltip than Dizzy, doesn't come with a cast time, and applies a better minor buff.

Are you using Trial Dummy to make the numbers appear higher?
And Essence Thief and Sea-Serpent's Coil, That's your cheap trick.
This is the real tooltip.

"Concealed Weapon" real tooltip on live:

And what's your Dizzy tooltip with the same build and buffs?

Come on now, at least provide BOTH tooltips (in other words, ALL the data) if you're going to try and prove someone wrong.

FYI, he didn't need to any "cheap trick" to show that concealed is stronger than Dizzy:
Here are my real tooltips on live, ZERO buffs, ZERO target dummy, OUT of combat, same simple build, same weapon equipped (2h), same skills slotted, same bar, no "tricks" at all.
Dizzy:

Concealed:


Adding the 10% that concealed gives:


Concealed is 5% stronger than Dizzy Swing!


Concealed is stronger than dizzy without having a cast time, without forcing 2h in the weapon slot (allowing for dual wield which has higher raw damage than 2h) inflicts off balance (same as dizzy) and also grants minor expedition at all times when slotted on either bar.

Concealed weapon is OBJECTIVELY stronger than Dizzy, not even taking into account the strength and reliability of not having a cast time and nobody needs any "tricks" to prove that.

Yes, "Concealed Weapon" is better than "Dizzying Swing".
Class skills are better than weapon skills. That's all.

StaticWave wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

What he really wants to say isn't "Dizzy VS Concealed".
He criticizes "Concealed Weapon" as being too powerful and just wants nerfs.

Nah, NB in general is too powerful and needs to be nerfed. The class has everything right now. A NB in 3 tank sets still has as much damage as my full damage stamsorc. It's a joke

master_vanargand wrote: »

i11ionward wrote: »

I still don't understand why shadow disguise doesn't have a ramping cost. This is the most annoying skill, which is currently terribly overloaded.

Before we discuss that, please fix the bug where "Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible and stealth.
Many people in PvP are exploiting this bug to destroy invisible and stealth.

[BUG]"Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible

master_vanargand wrote: »

In an update a few years ago, invisible and stealth were no longer broken by single or AoE DoTs.
Only AoE direct damage, Detection potion, and Detection skill can destroy invisible and stealth.
But "Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible and stealth.
This is a bug, I tested how this happens.

Regarding "Elemental Susceptibility", there is a bug that causes some status effects to destroy invisible.
I tested it, and it seems that the "Burning" status effect is destroying invisible.
It's highly likely that other status effects that give DoTs also have a bug that destroys invisibility, just like "Burning".
Game creators should check all status effects just to be sure.

The mechanism by which "Structured Entropy" destroys invisible and stealth probably has to do with the visual effect of the line connecting the player and the target.
In other words, to display the line's visual effect, you need to know the position of the invisible player.

1. "Structured Entropy" DoT damage and cast player to heal.
2. The server tells cast player the position of the target invisible player as information to draw the line's visual effect.
3. The position of the invisible player is now known, so the invisible effect will be destroyed.

I think the above process is probably the cause of the bug of "Structured Entropy".

Below is a video of me testing the bug.

[ESO]"Elemental Susceptibility" and "Structured Entropy" destroy invisible[BUG]
https://youtu.be/GOTjX6kePkQ

[Test]

1. Testing "Structured Entropy", destroy invisible.
2. Testing "Normal DoT skill", Invisible will be maintained.
3. Testing "Elemental Susceptibility", destroy invisible.
4. Testing "Overcharged of Status effect ", Invisible will be maintained.