Mesmerize & its morphs should affect ALL NPCs

Other_Name · April 29

There's no reason ANY NPC should deny me dialog at stage 4 vampirism after using this skill. If it was added to make merchants available, yes, but why only merchants? I don't see why the general citizenry of Tamriel is immune to Illusion magic. I want to be able to hear what pretty much every NPC has to say during quests and in cities. There's SO much voiced dialog in this game, it's one of its most redeeming features, yet this illusion magic trick that allows me to tame hostile NPCs and merchants doesn't work on general NPCs?

Artim_X · April 29

Honestly, this definitely feels like an oversight. For rp sake I like playing at stage 4, but I'm always forced to reduce my stage with a bloody mara to interact with the locals. I wholeheartedly agree that mesmerize should affect everyone.

Fischblut · April 29

Since this sad change to vampire stages, all my monsters are always on stage 1. Recently I had urge to return them to stage 4 again, but I had to remember why I can no longer do it.

I really miss their stage 4 look (it used to be their main look before the change), but I need easy interaction with NPCs

Would be great to return to original vampire gameplay of old days, without need to Mesmerize any NPCs.

Nerouyn · April 29

The developers are walking a tight line with things like vampirism.

Realistically they should be extremely powerful etc. etc. but it's an online multiplayer game and a balance must be struck.

Also, realistically, any pale faced players would be attacked on sight by guards in nearly every locale.

You certainly wouldn't be able to waltz through Alinor with vein streaked faces like you can in ESO.

Other_Name wrote: »

If it was added to make merchants available, yes, but why only merchants? I don't see why the general citizenry of Tamriel is immune to Illusion magic.

This actually lines up with the single player games.

In Skyrim, vampires' (pre Lords) ability to affect others was limited and you could only do it once per day. You couldn't just run around mesmerizing everyone.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vampirism

Vampire's Seduction
This power is similar to the Calm spell and can be used once a day. Once the Dawnguard add-on is installed, Vampire's Seduction will allow you to feed on NPCs at any time, regardless of whether they are sleeping. If you do not possess this power during the vampire version of the quest ProphetDG, you will temporarily receive it in order to enthrall Dexion Evicus, only to have it disappear after use.

Think about it.

If vampires could then they'd probably be ruling the world.

Why merchants? Other than the obvious practical answer of that's what players need?

Look at where the mercantile skill is in the single player games. In the vicinity of persuasion. It's a talky affair and merchants generally open to negotiation. Their minds being more susceptible to influence lines up.

Spectral_Force · April 30

Honestly, after having played a vampire toon since the revamp, I think the whole "NPCs don't talk to you in stage 4" mechanic should be scrapped.

For one, it's woefully inconsistent - most generic NPCs won't talk to you and are unaffected by Mesmerise, guild traders don't care, most merchants won't talk to you without Mesmerise but some will, quest NPCs don't care for obvious reasons. If RP is the main reason it exists, this kind of inconsistent behaviour gets in the way of immersion.

It locks you out of interacting with random NPCs, as OP said. NPC chatter often helps with worldbuilding, and having to miss out on it, or drink a 'Mara/wait 4 hours for the stage to drop, is unfortunate.

The mechanic forces you to either reserve a slot for Mesmerise, or keep slotting and unslotting it every time you interact with a trader. The latter is a general hassle for what should be a quick process, and the former forces you to give up a skill slot just to engage with basic game mechanics, which is unacceptable.

And finally, Mesmerise effect on NPCs is dodgy at best - even on stationary NPCs I sometimes need to do a double take because the first wave simply doesn't register. And if the NPC walks around, trying to catch them mid-animation is even more frustrating, and you better hope the NPC you need doesn't like standing in front of crafting stations, or bookshelves, or tables, or anything else that gets in the way of you standing in front of them to cast Mesmerise.

All in all, while the novelty of being refused service is nice, and the voice lines you get are neat, if very inconsistent in tone, this mechanic drastically lowers quality of life for any stage 4 vampire, and not in a fun RP way.

Other_Name · May 3

Nerouyn wrote: »

The developers are walking a tight line with things like vampirism.

Realistically they should be extremely powerful etc. etc. but it's an online multiplayer game and a balance must be struck.

Also, realistically, any pale faced players would be attacked on sight by guards in nearly every locale.

You certainly wouldn't be able to waltz through Alinor with vein streaked faces like you can in ESO.

Other_Name wrote: »

If it was added to make merchants available, yes, but why only merchants? I don't see why the general citizenry of Tamriel is immune to Illusion magic.

This actually lines up with the single player games.

In Skyrim, vampires' (pre Lords) ability to affect others was limited and you could only do it once per day. You couldn't just run around mesmerizing everyone.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Vampirism

Vampire's Seduction
This power is similar to the Calm spell and can be used once a day. Once the Dawnguard add-on is installed, Vampire's Seduction will allow you to feed on NPCs at any time, regardless of whether they are sleeping. If you do not possess this power during the vampire version of the quest ProphetDG, you will temporarily receive it in order to enthrall Dexion Evicus, only to have it disappear after use.

Think about it.

If vampires could then they'd probably be ruling the world.

Why merchants? Other than the obvious practical answer of that's what players need?

Look at where the mercantile skill is in the single player games. In the vicinity of persuasion. It's a talky affair and merchants generally open to negotiation. Their minds being more susceptible to influence lines up.

Sure, this is true for every game besides Morrowind. They've definitely scrapped many of their ideas since those days. I don't believe Zenimax is doing this for the sake of worldbuilding or roleplay, they've just overlooked it. Mesmerize can be used as often as you like in this iteration--it's essentially an illusion spell that sets their main-line style "dispostition" to you to 100. You can easily create a spell like this in Oblivion and it allows you to interact with anyone.

The fact that Mesmerize is an obvious illusion spell shouldn't detract from the fact that it can't be used on everyone. It's a mere oversight, or some limitation on their end that I'm not privy to. It's just an an unnecessary mechanic, where many things in the game are not properly explained.

For instance: your ability to user Wayshrines to travel is *suppposed* to come from the fact that you were originally soul-trapped by Mannimarco and marked as one of the Soulshriven--in fact, this explained in game in one of the books, and yet, any player can start in any zone and take advantage of this mode of transportation without ever even touching the main story.

I understand the need to balance power in an online game, but I doubt any PVPer will complain about this particular correction. The sad state of vampirism is simply due to the fact that Zenimax refuses to split their skills from PVE and PVP like games like Guild Wars did decades ago. It's just another one of their limitations that ruins the game for people who roleplay and heavily invest in their pockets, just to have some goofy ass PVP complaint ruin their favorite mechanics.

ArchMikem · May 3

I always believed Vampirism and Lycanthropy should've lived up to what they are. Curses. ESO should have made them come with a host of drawbacks that only the most adamant and prepared players would have their characters stay cursed, making the decision more important and meaningful.

My one question stemming from that is, how many people are playing Vampires because they actually want to be a Vampire, and not just because it's Optimal for their Build.

Other_Name · May 20

ArchMikem wrote: »

I always believed Vampirism and Lycanthropy should've lived up to what they are. Curses. ESO should have made them come with a host of drawbacks that only the most adamant and prepared players would have their characters stay cursed, making the decision more important and meaningful.

My one question stemming from that is, how many people are playing Vampires because they actually want to be a Vampire, and not just because it's Optimal for their Build.

I personally highly doubt that aside from that single PVP-themed buff, anyone is playing vampire for optimization. This is where it's on Zenimax to separate PVP and PVE skills!

finehair · May 20

The old vampire ulti was better than giant plastic manpire we have. You can not chance my mind. I'm still using unfathomable darkness to remember it.

Vevvev · May 20

ArchMikem wrote: »

I always believed Vampirism and Lycanthropy should've lived up to what they are. Curses. ESO should have made them come with a host of drawbacks that only the most adamant and prepared players would have their characters stay cursed, making the decision more important and meaningful.

My one question stemming from that is, how many people are playing Vampires because they actually want to be a Vampire, and not just because it's Optimal for their Build.

I do, although when they came with the rework they took a lot of the RP aspects away while adding a lot more. It's like taking 2 steps forwards and 2 steps back. No real progress was made, and it just.... feels wrong.

Mesmerize not effecting all NPCs is probably due to the fact that Mesmerize is a combat ability, you cannot attack merchants, but you can attack these NPCs that might have something to stay on the side of the road. Stuns that deal no damage won't actually "land" on these NPCs unless you're in combat with them, and it's probably why we can't use it to make them talk to us. The class of NPC is probably limiting the power.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · May 20

Mezmerise should of been a Vampire passive like Intimidation and Persuasion are for the Fighters and Mages Guild.

Mesmerize & its morphs should affect *ALL* NPCs

Mesmerize & its morphs should affect ALL NPCs